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[ziadalmahmoud]

hey guys im new in this forum.. maybe someone can help with my problem..
got a 2001 3.0L omega, got some issues when it comes to starting. started around one week back. The car would simply not start from first switch. I can hear the engine noise but it wouldnt start unless i give it a step on the gas. and once that happens and the car starts, black smoke starts coming out of the exhaust. it give smoke for some 15-20 secs with low rpm, then it picks up to normal and smoke disappears. One more thing, might be related to this problem, just few days back the engine would simply turn off in the middle of the high way while driving.

i suspect its the fuel injectors being dirty, but someone told me, it might a delay starting thing.
anybody might know what the problem could be?

[TheBoy]

Does EML come on? If so, do a 'paperclip' test (see FAQ).

Could be a number of things from a failing crank sensor to dirty idle control valve...

[Markjay]

As TheBoy said, though if you suspect dirty injectors then it will do no harm to add a bottle of fuel system cleaner to the fuel tank, e.g. Redex / STP / Comma D-Tox etc.

[ziadalmahmoud]

Thanks for the information, however some ppl warned me from using a fuel system cleaner. They claim it causes damages to the engine. Is that true?
I dont have any alarms coming except for some washing fluid level alarm. Other than that the indications seems fine. before engine startup the indication lights turn on as indicated in the car operations manual, and after a few seconds they are off.
Its just weird how smoke only remains for a short period after starting and then the car is all normal.

[omegaV6CD]

Thanks for the information, however some ppl warned me from using a fuel system cleaner. They claim it causes damages to the engine. Is that true?
I dont have any alarms coming except for some washing fluid level alarm. Other than that the indications seems fine. before engine startup the indication lights turn on as indicated in the car operations manual, and after a few seconds they are off.
Its just weird how smoke only remains for a short period after starting and then the car is all normal.

Marhaba Ziad,
i had the same problem with my car but it stopped on its own, i suspect it was a MAF connector issue.
There is problem with fuel system cleaning additives as long as you don't use them a lot. As they can damage the lub oil eliminating it's detergent properties.

[nixoro]

Does EML come on? If so, do a 'paperclip' test (see FAQ).

Could be a number of things from a failing crank sensor to dirty idle control valve...

I'm guessing yours is a facelift model which means the paperclip test would not work.

[ziadalmahmoud]

hey guys, after my last msg 2 hours ago, and reading the information you provided, i decided to perform this paper clip test just in case, i have found out the following fault. it was indicating a 31 code, which refering back to the table means "engine RPM signal (crankshaft sensor)". which is in line with what Theboy was predicting.
It is worth mentioning that i previoulsy noticed that once i turn on the switch (without turning on the engin) the ELM light blinks one fast blink and goes to the continous flash (as mentioned in the manual). so the indication shows only for a split of a second and then everything is normal even after running the engine.
would you think that would be the fault indication of the crank shaft sensor fault found in the paper clip test?

ahleen omegav6cd.. i do wanna try the fuel system cleaner, maybe i will give it a try later on in the evening. did u check the alarms back then? anything similar to my observations?

anyone can give advise regarding this fault? and whether it can be the reason for all these symptoms (hard starting and smoke)?

[ziadalmahmoud]

paper clip test redone while engine is running. no fault observed.
so i guess problem is not involved with the crank sensors.

[TheBoy]

Sorry, to clarify, are you saying sometimes when starting the EML flashes? This is a signal that the engine ECU has not received a valid OK signal from the immobiliser ECU...

[Markjay]

Thanks for the information, however some ppl warned me from using a fuel system cleaner. They claim it causes damages to the engine. Is that true?
I dont have any alarms coming except for some washing fluid level alarm. Other than that the indications seems fine. before engine startup the indication lights turn on as indicated in the car operations manual, and after a few seconds they are off.
Its just weird how smoke only remains for a short period after starting and then the car is all normal.

Marhaba Ziad,
i had the same problem with my car but it stopped on its own, i suspect it was a MAF connector issue.
There is problem with fuel system cleaning additives as long as you don't use them a lot. As they can damage the lub oil eliminating it's detergent properties.

Marhabtain...

I beg to differ on the fuel additives issue, been using Redex regularly over the past 8 years, on three cars, around 100,000 miles between them, no problems what so ever... It's the oil additives you want to be careful with, not the fuel additives. In fact Shell Optimax and BT Ultimate both contain detergents, so if you are using any of those fuels regularly you do not need to use other additives.

Having said that, the chances of it actually being a dirty injector issue are small, so the rest of the advice given on this thread still applies...

[ziadalmahmoud]

last night i filled up my tank and got an STP fuel system cleaner. There was change in the car starting problem.
after all i decided to pay that $30 for a car computer check at the  mechanic. surprisingly he was able to get the faults that the paper clip test didnt show.
The observed issues with the car are as follows:

1. Cam sensor fault
2. Crank sensor fault
3. Coolant sensor fault
4. Gear oil leak from the lever seal.

he reseted the car system. after that the car started normaly and he advised to keep it under observation for another few days to see if the problem comes back again. so lets see.

are all these sensor faults major? and are they costly to repair/replace?

would the only cause of a sensor fault is a malfunctioning "faulty" sensor, or can it be something else?

[JasonH]

Coolant sensor often just needs a good clean up, It's under \ in the coolant expansion tank and is easy to get to.

Crank sensor is £50 and about 30 mins to fit - but I doubt this is your problem. Crank sensor fault will register if the engine is not running.

Cam sensor - not sure about price and fitting - but I'd say a favourite for the problems you've been experiencing.

[ziadalmahmoud]

After the computer check and an observation the problem came back. starting got a little easier after using the STP fuel system cleaner however black smoke during starting still exist.
Took it to the mechanic and he said he wants to change the injectors and see if the problem is gone, didnt like that trial error approach, so i figured let me try figuring what the problem is starting from the simple issues.

Does anyone think air intake could be a problem. like dirty air intake parts having carbon residues that pile up and kinda chokes the engine at starts up and cleans itself after a couple of seconds?
Will try to get those parts cleaned first.

[Marks DTM Calib]

We seem to be titting about with this on.

It is CLASSIC crank sensor symptoms.......remember that the crank sensor fault code is not stored....

Replace the injectors....is he mad!

Cam sensor.....never ever seen one fail on a V6 plus its not the correct sysmptoms, it would not stop the engine starting, the most it would do is bring on the 4K rpm rev limit.