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[TheBoy]

As to getting a chauffeur, can't afford one.

LOL well you're half way there... all you need now is the invention of the automatic steering wheel, accelerator and braking system. You now have the most relaxing, but most boring drive ever imaginable

Sounds like heaven


All joking aside, I've done jobs that have imvolved massive amounts of driving, and driving to get somewhere simply rarely 'excites' me any more, so tend to not drive in an 'involving' manner much now, hence 95% of time preferring auto, 5% for those times I am fired up

[Andy B]

.., and he said he could go quicker overall on B-roads in the manual ....

If I wanted to go really quick on a B road I wouldn't be driving over a ton & a half of executive saloon, I buy some kind of 'proper' sports car.

[V8S]

Dave - thanks for the PM, have replied.


All,

Thanks for the comments. I agree that getting a good car outweighs the spec, but I'm not in a rush at the moment to buy so hopefully I can wait for the right one to come along. I side with Paul in a way because I  enjoy being involved with driving, not just sitting back and being chauffered by the car but sometimes I think I'd just like to relax.

My present weekday car revs highly in all gears (I'm in fifth before I reach 45!!), making any trip fuel-hungry and it's only a 1.6i. I'm looking for a comfortable ride in a nice environment (ability to smooth potholed Dorset roads essential), that can happily sit on the motorway at 90 (leptons) without revving to 5,000 rpm, but also be reasonably useful along country lanes without swallowing the oil reserves of the middle east in the process. I'd be using it to drive to work (5 miles each way) and trips around the countryside and also to places likes Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, etc when the mood takes me. I don't have kids to ferry around and having an estate Omega as a 30 year old bloke scares me as I've already got a few grey hairs!  

I could just get a diesel and be done with it but I've heard that they are gutless until the turbo kicks in, and I do like to drive my cars properly and improve my driving, not just stagnate behind the wheel.

The manual Omega is nothing like your Honda will be. I consider the 3.0 V6 quite a peaky engine, but that's compared to my 4.4 V8 BMW engine. Compared to your Honda it will actually be very torquey -- I'm assuming your Honda is a VTEC that peaks around 8,000 RPM and has gearing to match. The gearing on the Omega is quite high, for example in 5th gear at 80 MPH it's pulling just over 3,000 RPM. Personally I consider it a little too high as I'd rather have better acceleration, but it's great for the motorway as you can get decent economy and there's no audible engine noise at all. I think the Omega would really suit a 6th gear to get better acceleration without compromising the cruising ability, but you can't have it all!

As for fuel ecomomy, I average around 24 MPG in my 3.0 MV6, and I don't hang about -- it regularly sees 6,000 RPM. There's a fair bit of motorway mileage in there too, much of which is done in 5th gear which brings it up a little. Mine is dual-fuel though which is makes it a little less economical (still loads cheaper though) so on petrol that should rise to between 26 and 28 MPG average -- pretty good for a 210 BHP car weighing as much as a small country! For comparison my BMW gets between 14 and 18 MPG depending on driving style and the kind of roads, so the Omega is a huge improvement over that. And that's got a 6-speed box too, so 6th gear is actually a little higher than the Omega meaning it revs quite low on the motorway.

My Honda is not a VTEC - I can't remember what it is but it's not that. Of the Concerto model range, it is the range topper which they put a Honda 16v engine in and a different gearbox. The ratios on the 'box are utterly moronic... unless you consider that, if I'm honest, it is a grandad's car and probably unlikely to go above 42 most of the time. Has good acceleration but in all gears you're around 3,000 rpm and fifth takes over from 45 and above. A trip along main roads and the motorway, which I do quite a bit to see my g/f, costs only about £5 less in the Honda than it does in the 4 litre TVR... which is less than ideal! It's down to the fact that to get any progress, the engine is revving at 4,000 and above most of the time on the motorway.

I really want a manual for the driving and fuel economy, but I just don't think I'll find one. Nationally, at the moment on Autotrader and other sites like that, there isn't a single car that meets most of my criteria.

I'm starting to think about a diesel as a more practical car and a way to get a manual, but almost all are lower specified than the petrol. I've even, god forbid, scratched my chin at some estates and that's really not good.

There must be a facelift manual Elite with leather out there somewhere!

[Paul M]

.., and he said he could go quicker overall on B-roads in the manual ....

If I wanted to go really quick on a B road I wouldn't be driving over a ton & a half of executive saloon, I buy some kind of 'proper' sports car.

Yes, and in an ideal world I'd own 20 cars and 5 bikes, each specialised to exactly one type of driving/terrain, and to top it all off they'd be able to morph into each other so I could start out in the sports car, then morph into the sensible car when I need to pick up some passengers, then morph into a van when I want to pick up a sofa at Ikea

I have a 1000cc sports bike for the times I want to go really quickly, but the reality is that sometimes I need to carry passengers, sometimes I need to put some large or heavy items in the back of the car, etc. Car selection isn't a binary choice between uber-sports and uber-sensible, often it's about compromise. I'm prepared to compromise a bit of handling to have a spacious 5 seats and 4 doors car. I can still drive it reasonably quickly and enjoy myself in the process, yes the guy in front in the Lotus Exige won't stay in view for long, but he's obviously chosen a different set of compromises.

The difference with getting a 2-seater sports car, and getting an automatic version of an otherwise quite enjoyable car, is that the automatic is a very poor compromise in my opinion -- it offers nothing in return. I don't get more seats, I can't carry more stuff, I don't get better fuel economy, it doesn't look any better. On the contrary, I lose performance, I lose control, I lose driving enjoyment, I lose reliability, and I lose fuel economy. Yes there may be less effort required, but as far as I'm concerned driving involves very little effort anyway -- it's not like you break into a sweat or collapse from exhaustion having to change gear! I get too little exercise as it is, and before anyone mentions it I do have an annual gym membership and attend regularly. Before I moved to Edinburgh I spent some time doing a 150 mile round trip each day, some of which was spent in crawling traffic on the M8 -- even then not once did I consider that I'd prefer an automatic! The most tiring part of journeys like that is mental -- it's so boring that I struggle to keep my concentration levels up. No changes to the car (other than full automation so I can go to sleep!) are going to help out there.

Personally I'd rather be driving a manual Vectra C than an automatic Omega, and if you know my opinion of the Vectra C then you'll realise just how bad that comparison is

[Paul M]

All joking aside, I've done jobs that have imvolved massive amounts of driving, and driving to get somewhere simply rarely 'excites' me any more, so tend to not drive in an 'involving' manner much now, hence 95% of time preferring auto, 5% for those times I am fired up

I guess it depends on the individual. My dad used to do around 40,000 miles per year as part of his job, and he still had no interest in automatics. And I suspect he's even older than most of your guys . He doesn't do so many these days as he's mostly office based, but still a fair amount.

Apart from anything else, when it comes to older, high-mileage cars I'm very wary of automatics as it tends to be a case of "when" rather than "if" the gearbox will break. With a decent manual the only thing that usually goes is the clutch, and you can usually detect that starting to go long before it gets bad, and it's a cheap and easy to change (at least on RWD cars). Mine was changed at around 165,000 miles at a cost of £150 inc labour using a genuine VX kit and I'm confident of my transmission lasting me another 165,000 miles -- not so sure about the engine . I sold my Audi runaround about a year ago and that had 207,000 miles on it with the original clutch! If it were an auto it would probably be on the third gearbox

[Paul M]

My Honda is not a VTEC - I can't remember what it is but it's not that. Of the Concerto model range, it is the range topper which they put a Honda 16v engine in and a different gearbox. The ratios on the 'box are utterly moronic... unless you consider that, if I'm honest, it is a grandad's car and probably unlikely to go above 42 most of the time. Has good acceleration but in all gears you're around 3,000 rpm and fifth takes over from 45 and above. A trip along main roads and the motorway, which I do quite a bit to see my g/f, costs only about £5 less in the Honda than it does in the 4 litre TVR... which is less than ideal! It's down to the fact that to get any progress, the engine is revving at 4,000 and above most of the time on the motorway.

I really want a manual for the driving and fuel economy, but I just don't think I'll find one. Nationally, at the moment on Autotrader and other sites like that, there isn't a single car that meets most of my criteria.

I'm starting to think about a diesel as a more practical car and a way to get a manual, but almost all are lower specified than the petrol. I've even, god forbid, scratched my chin at some estates and that's really not good.

There must be a facelift manual Elite with leather out there somewhere!

Wow that's pretty low geared. I had an Audi that I used as a runaround up until about a year ago, it was super reliable but it was too low geared for my liking, pulling around 3,400 RPM at 70 MPH. It was great for round town though, the low gearing made up for the rather gutless 2.0 8v engine

As for diesels, you should be able to find a 2.2 DTi Elite facelift if you look around -- it was basically the replacement for the 2.5 TD and was only fitted with a manual gearbox. Trying to find manual petrol Elites is very difficult, I know someone who has one but they're rare. You may be better off looking for a 2.6 MV6, personally I prefer the MV6 as you get better seats (not leather as standard but they're much better shaped than the sofa type seats in the Elite), better suspension, nicer wheels, nicer interior trim (aluminium look instead of fake wood) and most of the worthwhile features of the Elite. The only things I missed were the cruise control and electrochromatic rear view mirror, both of which are cheap and easy retro-fits. It depends how desperate you are for leather, as leather MV6s are rare, and the sports leather seats are very desirable in the used market as they're sculpted like the cloth MV6 seats -- much nicer than the Elite leather.

[V8S]

Wow that's pretty low geared. I had an Audi that I used as a runaround up until about a year ago, it was super reliable but it was too low geared for my liking, pulling around 3,400 RPM at 70 MPH. It was great for round town though, the low gearing made up for the rather gutless 2.0 8v engine

As for diesels, you should be able to find a 2.2 DTi Elite facelift if you look around -- it was basically the replacement for the 2.5 TD and was only fitted with a manual gearbox. Trying to find manual petrol Elites is very difficult, I know someone who has one but they're rare. You may be better off looking for a 2.6 MV6, personally I prefer the MV6 as you get better seats (not leather as standard but they're much better shaped than the sofa type seats in the Elite), better suspension, nicer wheels, nicer interior trim (aluminium look instead of fake wood) and most of the worthwhile features of the Elite. The only things I missed were the cruise control and electrochromatic rear view mirror, both of which are cheap and easy retro-fits. It depends how desperate you are for leather, as leather MV6s are rare, and the sports leather seats are very desirable in the used market as they're sculpted like the cloth MV6 seats -- much nicer than the Elite leather.

There's a couple of Elite DTis that I have come across but, being diesel, I have passed over them. I have heard the diesels are gutless until the turbo kicks in.

There are a few 2.6 MV6s about but all are auto. When you say better suspension, do you mean stiffer? I am looking for a car that handles reasonably well but offers a nice soft ride over Dorset's utterly crap roads.

I prefer the Elite wheels to the MV6.

I have leather at the moment in my Honda, and in the TVR. I've never liked cloth interiors as they look cheap to me, seem to wear more and are more difficult to keep looking their best. I could have cloth if I had a manual gearbox. Cloth in an auto - no thanks.

What does an MV6 lack over an Elite besides the mirror and cruise?

[Martin_1962]

Personally I'd rather be driving a manual Vectra C than an automatic Omega, and if you know my opinion of the Vectra C then you'll realise just how bad that comparison is

Have you tried both?

[edwardmickey]

I found in the fecelift models, CD spec and below was disappointing.

CDX onwards is where the toys all kicked in.  Of course, you'll pay a bit more for an Elite over a CDX, but you should get leather (based on standard factory spec), rear blind (removed from 52plate onwards), sat nav and GID (CID if lucky) screen, heated rear seats, automatic occupancy front seat detection (for passenger air bag) and sportier alloys.

That said, if you get a CDX with leather, do you really use the other toys much anyway.
I have found the sat nav a bit lacking in places and prefer Tomtoms.  Shame you can't build in a Tomtom so that it's theft protected.

As for maunal/auto...  I drive 3.2s in both formats day to day and prefer the auto hands down.
I find the manual gearbox sloppy, uninspiring but very little improvement in accelaration or top speed.  Yes, the auto is thirstier, but using the kickdown 3,2,1 with sports mode correctly, I can select the correct gear to maintain high revs when taking corners, roundabouts, etc through the entire speed range.

I'm willing to bet my mortgage that you will not be able to source a 51 plate onwards in manual with elite specification with below 80k mileage.  You may find MV6 equivalent, but as Theboy stated, in facelifts, the spec is very lack lustre.

Good luck in your hunting.....

[davlad22]

As for diesels, you should be able to find a 2.2 DTi Elite facelift if you look around -- it was basically the replacement for the 2.5 TD and was only fitted with a manual gearbox. Trying to find manual petrol Elites is very difficult, I know someone who has one but they're rare. You may be better off looking for a 2.6 MV6, personally I prefer the MV6 as you get better seats (not leather as standard but they're much better shaped than the sofa type seats in the Elite), better suspension, nicer wheels, nicer interior trim (aluminium look instead of fake wood) and most of the worthwhile features of the Elite. The only things I missed were the cruise control and electrochromatic rear view mirror, both of which are cheap and easy retro-fits. It depends how desperate you are for leather, as leather MV6s are rare, and the sports leather seats are very desirable in the used market as they're sculpted like the cloth MV6 seats -- much nicer than the Elite leather.

There's a couple of Elite DTis that I have come across but, being diesel, I have passed over them. I have heard the diesels are gutless until the turbo kicks in.

There are a few 2.6 MV6s about but all are auto. When you say better suspension, do you mean stiffer? I am looking for a car that handles reasonably well but offers a nice soft ride over Dorset's utterly crap roads.

I prefer the Elite wheels to the MV6.

I have leather at the moment in my Honda, and in the TVR. I've never liked cloth interiors as they look cheap to me, seem to wear more and are more difficult to keep looking their best. I could have cloth if I had a manual gearbox. Cloth in an auto - no thanks.

What does an MV6 lack over an Elite besides the mirror and cruise?

PM received  

Right! In defense of the diesel (of which we have two), it is not slow! One of ours spends most of its time towing a trailer for which, it is perfect, pulls well, cruises well and munches the miles. Put simply, you drive it differently. If you want economy under normal driving, you change gear below 3000rpm so the turbo doesn't have much chance to kick in. If you want it to go fast, rev it and it will fly all the way up to over 100mph (officer   ) just like any other omega. In fact, the 2.2DTi has the SAME torque figure as the 3.2 V6.

As mentioned, I too don't think the omega is the best car for throwing round country roads. It's still very stable at high speeds. If i'm honest, the big V6 does suit the character and nature of the car much better but for some people, as was being discussed earlier, there is a compromise to be made. Diesel does this by returning 46-48 mpg, long service intervals and reliable mechanics. Yes, they are noisy from startup (noisier even that most modern diesels) but that should quieten down nicely after about 20 mins driving. 'M- TEK Performance' user on here does a power upgrade for the diesel to take it up to 140bhp. (I will let you know  8-))

Spec wise leather is only standard on 3.2 Elite. 2.6 & 2.2DTi, leather was OPTIONAL. Paul, the later Elite wheels are the identical 'star' shape to the later MV6  

MV6 is stiffer suspension, Elite is self levelling. MV6 has a few things lacking.

Mr Mickey, you say you're willing to bet your mortgage...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2001-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-ELITE-2-5v6-24v-A1-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ220151607837QQihZ012QQcategoryZ9858QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Very close! Do I get a free house when 'the one' is found!?!?!   I've seen quite a few manual 2.6 Elites as well so you might be regretting saying that!