Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[V8S]

Hi all,

I picked up my 2.2 DTi Elite on Saturday but I have found the handling to be odd on roads anything less than smooth and neutral camber. Now, I can't believe that a modern large car follows road dips and bumps more than my FWD Honda or RWD TVR. Sometimes the whole car feels like it steps sideways, if that makes any sense. Mostly, though, it just needs quite a bit of work keeping it straight.

I had the tracking checked at a local tyre / exhaust place using laser equipment.

What we found was:

- the actual tracking seems fine
- all the tyres are low and need replacing ideally
- the rear drivers wheel is smooth on the inside (I knew about this)
- the rear passenger side wheel seems to be either further out or further in than the rear driver side wheel - the laser showed a difference of about 3 points on the gauge on this wheel. The garage chap didn't know why this would be.


So.....

Q1 - How nervous are Omegas on bumpy roads?
Q2 - It can't be normal to have a rear wheel further out or in compared to the other rear wheel. Has anyone had this?
Q3 - Could the rear wheel have some kind of wrongly applied spacer? It has the normal Elite wheels.
Q4 - Could the tyres being relatively low, and the smooth inside of the driver's rear wheel, cause somewhat floaty and wayward handling seeing the tracking is OK?

I tested 3 Omegas before testing this DTi. None of them felt like this, though one test drive was very short on smooth(ish) roads, another was of an MV6 (different suspension) on smooth roads and the other was a 2.5 V6 for about 10 minutes, again on smoothish roads. The MV6 felt very planted and easy to place where I wanted it. When I test drove the DTi, it seemed to pull to the left which we put down to the camber of the road. I had an inspection done to check this before buying but it turned out the garage didn't actually have alignment tools and he took it on various roads and concluded it was the camber of the roads.

I'm having the tyres changed this week so I will know whether it is them causing the symptoms and go from there. However, I'd rather get a few more miles out of them if the Omega is, actually, a floaty car. I just can't think that it would be quite so poor. I suppose I ought to take it to a Vauxhall dealer and get the whole suspension geometry looked at and set up but I really don't want to be ripped off quite yet.


Sorry for the rambling post.

Cheers for any help.  


Graham

[Kevin Wood]

Q1 - How nervous are Omegas on bumpy roads?
Q2 - It can't be normal to have a rear wheel further out or in compared to the other rear wheel. Has anyone had this?
Q3 - Could the rear wheel have some kind of wrongly applied spacer? It has the normal Elite wheels.
Q4 - Could the tyres being relatively low, and the smooth inside of the driver's rear wheel, cause somewhat floaty and wayward handling seeing the tracking is OK?

1) Mine can be nervous at times but I am also noticing wear on the inside front shoulders so I suspect camber needs adjusting (common problem). It is also a symptom of having wide tyres and living in a country with rubbish roads It significantly improved when I replaced worn tyres.

2) This could well be due to the wheel having been replaced with one of an incorrect offset. Are the wheels clearly a matching set or is this wheel different? Failing that, are spacers fitted behind the wheels? If it's not one of the above I'd have the vehicle thoroughly checked as it has a serious issue if there's a noticeable alignment difference and it's down to the suspension.

3) Quite possible, see above answer.

4) Vehicles always drive better on new tyres that are evenly worn. However, it's imperative that the reason for the uneven wear is investigated or you'll quickly be back in the same boat.

A trip to wheels-in-motion sounds like a good idea, by all accounts.

Kevin

[V8S]

Hi,

Thanks for replying. I'm used to a nervous TVR, which improved greatly when I had the alignments set up properly after noticing abnormal tyre wear. It looks, from the fact the rears used to be on the front, that there was (or still is) a problem with the tracking or camber.

I was quite surprised when the tyre place checked and found the tracking to be ok. I expected quite a poor setup.

I haven't looked very closely at the wheels to see if they are a matching set. They are all the same Elite style though. I will look at lunchtime.

My TVR is booked in to see a specialist for a manifold gasket change later in the month, so I may get him to look over the Omega's setup. However, I'd prefer to get it sorted before then. I looked on the Wheels In Motion website but it doesn't say where the branches are yet. Do you know if there's one anywhere near Yeovil?

[Kevin Wood]

How thoroughly was the alignment checked? I assume it was a full geometry check if it measured the incorrect offset of the rear wheel.

It is essential to measure at least camber and toe on all 4 wheels. In addition, the limits for these parameters on most alignment machines are way too wide, so if the operator only adjusts the parameters that turn red, you can still end up with a car that handles poorly and wears tyres, unfortunately. Do you have a print-out of the measurements that were made?

Last time I had mine aligned, the guy said the camber was in spec. but was a bit excessive, but he didn't adjust it because he only adjusts things that are in red on the print out.   Now the shoulders of the front tyres are wearing.

Kevin

[Kevin Wood]

One other thing to mention. Before spending more money on alignment and tyres, it's worth checking to ensure that you haven't got wear in the suspension anywhere.

Jack up each wheel and ensure there is no play when gripping the tyre at 12-6 o'clock and 3-9 o'clock. Frequent issues on the Omega are front lower wishbone bushes and the steering idler on the passenger side of the steering crossmember failing.

kevin

[V8S]

I think the system was called LaserLine or similar. I wasn't actually watching what he was doing until he came over to explain what he'd found. He put frame things on each wheel and the lasers on the front wheels shone towards the back wheels and put a line on a gauge.

I'm a bit of a numpty about these things I'm afraid.

I'm not sure if he could check castor / camber / toe with this system - I never thought to ask at the time as I had other things I needed to do.

I'd like to take it to a place that I know will do a comprehensive check and setup but I don't think places like ATS, National, Kwik-Fit are going to do anyone other than the minimum to secure some cash from me.

I have no print out - it was just a whim thing popping into the tyre place and they were going to be closing soon so I didn't spend too long there.

You mention Wheels in Motion but do you know if there is one around the Yeovil area? I'm finding it difficult to find a garage with the required tools around here other than the big chains like Kwik-Fit.


Cheers for all your help. I'll check the play tonight.

[philayl]

Hi, sounds like you have the classic symptoms of lower wishbone failure. It is worth getting the wishbones replaced before replacing any tyres or paying out for a geometery check. It is very difficult to detect wear on the wishbone bushes by hand, for what it costs for two new wishbones and about an hour each side to fit, it is well worth doing. Probably best to replace the drop links while you are under there, about £10 each side.
 p.s. Kwik Fit and the likes do not have the capability to do a full geometery check, they only do a wheel alignment, not the same.

[Kevin Wood]

You mention Wheels in Motion but do you know if there is one around the Yeovil area? I'm finding it difficult to find a garage with the required tools around here other than the big chains like Kwik-Fit.

There's only one and he's in Hertfordshire IIRC. I've no personal experience but he comes highly recommended as the guy to sort out Omega handling issues.

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/

Kevin

[V8S]

Thanks for your help, guys.

Having spoken to Tony earlier after finding the Wheels in Motion website, he assured me I'd need to find a place that didn't just do laser alignment. I found a local one and Tony very kindly phoned them up before I booked the car in to explain what I needed and to check out their competency. He also promised to send me the settings he recommends.  

That's what I call service - it's just a pity I'm not giving him my business.

The car is booked in on Wednesday to have everything checked - hopefully the tramlining and nervousness will be cured. I have come across various other threads on Google about tramlining Omegas so it looks like it's a frequent problem, with various solutions from new tyres to adjusting the steering box.

I will try to post up the results of the checks. Fingers crossed it isn't anything costly.


Graham

[V8S]

Update:

After having my car set up, it was handling a little better. However, after about 2 weeks I decided this cannot be what an Omega drives like, having tramlining and nervousness issues. I emailed the geometry print out I received to Tony @ Wheels in Motion. He got back to me saying there were definitely problems with the work done, and from just looking at the numbers, he told me he also suspected something wasn't right around the OSR wheel.

Hats off to the man, he suggested that I find a mechanic and he would talk him through looking for a bend even though it would most likely not be visible. In due course, this was done but nothing could be found. I have now had the arms and hub changed under warranty and the car set up again and there is a marked improvement. It has gone down again today to have the final settings applied that Tony kindly (again) gave to the geometry firm, so hopefully I should be getting a nice handling car back. The rear no longer tries to steer the car after bumps, which scared the crap out of me!

I have not yet seen the printouts from the latest tweaks. I'm very interested to see whether it has been set up with any accuracy as the first time the settings were obviously way off. I hate the thought of red and green lights, the green representing a range of values that don't even have to give you the same settings for each of the front or rear wheels.

I suspect, though, that even with the car set up properly it isn't going to handle anywhere near as good as my old Honda Concerto. I think I need to get someone with a good handling Omega to drive mine, or for me to drive someone else's, and compare.

Big BIG thanks to Tony @ WIM - a hugely helpful chap who even turned down an offer of beer money! A true gentleman.

[ffcgary1]

Make sure that all the wishbone bushes are ok and not showing signs of failing or any ajustments that have been made will be usless as soon as you drive the car again. I had, and to a degree still have a tramling issue, but it is the pirelli's that i am running. I had no problems with the michelin primacys that i had before, and only changed due to the cost of them.