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[albitz]

I have had an oil leak for a while,got round to investigating it today.It is leaking from the alloy upper sump,just below the o/s engine mount.Haynes book of 'dangle berries' says you need to disconnect mounts and support engine with hoist etc, before removing sump.Is there any other method which can be used or has haynes got it right for once ? :-/

[feeutfo]

sure its not running down from cam covers? Noticed the sump was wet on mine, eventually traced it to cam cover by pot 1. Feel back of back cam belt cover, between alternator and aux belt tensioner pulley. If wet with oil.....

Unless your sure its the sump of course. :-) 

[albitz]

Unfortunately ,its definetely the sump Chris.I spent a long time under the car today cleaning all the crud off the lower part of the engine with Parrafin/rags/toothbrush,after that I started the engine and laid underneath watching the oil seeping out from the joint between the bottom of the block and the top of the sump.

[albitz]

Anyone have any experience or advice to offer on this one please ? I dont have access to a hoist so Im a bit unsure how to proceed. :-/

[albitz]

Box of matches it is then !

[Matchless]

Not an easy job.
You need an engine support beam which supports the engine from the inner wing flanges.
Also need the car on a lift or on ramps. You cant do this one on a jack safely.
Then you have to lower the subframe enough to give space to drop the sumps. This involves splitting steering ball joints, unbolting engine mounts etc and removing the front and centre subframe bolts, leave the rear ones in but loosened to the end of their threads.
The captive nuts in the chassis can break free if there is any rust on the subframe bolts so squirt penetrating fluid in first. The bolts will be b. tight, I broke a socket on them.
Even with the subframe lowered, access to some of the sump bolts is tight but drop the tin sump then unbolt the alloy one from inside. Clean the flanges with cellulose and rebuild with the special grey sealant....same as oil cooler sealant iirc. No gasket needed.
Rebuild is straight forward but go easy on the subframe bolts, its easy to cross thread one or tear out the captive nut.
You should get wheel alignment checked afterwards.

[Big_Roger]

Hi,
From the previous post this sounds a real pig of a job to do right.

If after you have cleaned and degreased the area around the leaking joint Could you not try just smearing some of the joint sealer with your finger perhaps along the joint.
Or, is it feasable to undo the bolts in the area a couple of turns, put a thin screwdriver in to open up a small gap, and with a thin nozzle on the tube, squeeze in some jointing compound, then do up the bolts.

I don't think there is all that much pressure in the sump, so it may just do it.

If it doesn't then there's always the proper way.


Roger

[Andy H]

Something that worries me is why would it start leaking now?

Is it a stressed part of the engine? (see note below)

Have you hit a rock?

Note - I think the ali upper sump is actually a 'girdle' for the bearing caps so as well as holding the oil in it also braces the bearing caps to help stop them from moving from side to side. An inline engine doesn't need any special measures because (nearly) all the forces are up and down but V engines have additional forces trying to move the main bearing caps from side to side. Performance V8's tend to be either cross-bolted or have a bearing cap girdle. AFAIK the Omega isn't cross bolted so probably has got a girdle.

If your upper sump has started leaking now I am worried that it is a symptom of your bearing caps working loose.

[albitz]

No idea why it has started leaking tbh,havent hit anything,no damage anywhere, its just leaking.
I wont be dismantling the car to fix it ,it just isnt worth the aggravation and I dont have an enginr hoist or support beam.I will have to leave as is and sell it as planned but for less money,or I have toyed with the idea of loosening of the alloy casting andsquirting the sealant into the joint and hoping for the best.Trouble with that is once its been loosened off I would have to squirt the sealant the whole way round and if it doesnt work it might make things a lot worse than they are now. :-/

[Andy H]

Apologies for spreading misinformation.

It appears from the photos in the Haynes manual that there is a 'main bearing bridge casting' which braces all of the bearing caps.

The good news is that the main bearing bridge casting is independent of the upper sump 

The bad news is that the bolts that fix the upper sump to the crankcase are only accessible after you take the lower sump off.

[albitz]

I noticed the same thing regarding the bearing cap support ........not bothered about dropping the lower sump off to get to the alloy casting.Its the pita off the subframe and engine mounts which makes it more trouble than its worth on a 13 year old car which is worth no more than a few hundred quid imo.

[albitz]

Not an easy job.
You need an engine support beam which supports the engine from the inner wing flanges.
Also need the car on a lift or on ramps. You cant do this one on a jack safely.
Then you have to lower the subframe enough to give space to drop the sumps. This involves splitting steering ball joints, unbolting engine mounts etc and removing the front and centre subframe bolts, leave the rear ones in but loosened to the end of their threads.
The captive nuts in the chassis can break free if there is any rust on the subframe bolts so squirt penetrating fluid in first. The bolts will be b. tight, I broke a socket on them.
Even with the subframe lowered, access to some of the sump bolts is tight but drop the tin sump then unbolt the alloy one from inside. Clean the flanges with cellulose and rebuild with the special grey sealant....same as oil cooler sealant iirc. No gasket needed.
Rebuild is straight forward but go easy on the subframe bolts, its easy to cross thread one or tear out the captive nut.
You should get wheel alignment checked afterwards.

I think its the camcover rather than oil cooler sealant,not completely sure though. :-/
A very helpful post btw Matchless.Ta very much.
Also got very useful advice from Daz via PM - thanks again Daz.

[Matchless]

alloy sump to block is definately the grey stuff, not the black camcover goo.
Cant remember what goes between steel pan and alloy sump though.