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[Kevin Wood]

Because a given speed on given piece of road can be perfectly safe at 6am,but the same speed could be lethal at 6pm. An experienced intelligent cop can differentiate and act accordingly,a camera cant.

Indeed. I guess even the benefit of the doubt is being legislated out of existence now everyone has targets to meet.

Bottom line - arbitrary speed limits are a stupidly blunt instrument with which to control road safety. We have drivers on the road who would still be lethal if there was a blanket 20MPH speed limit which everyone adhered to.

They are, however, self-funding profitable to police, unfortunately.

[the alarming man]

Many of the speed cameras I see are deliberately sited on hills or on good straight roads with unrealistically low speed limits, these can only be there to generate money.  Some areas, especially Bournemouth where my daughter lives, are simply infestested with the things.  I personally detest them so I bought a Road Angel 10 years ago and this has saved my licence. [ As said before look at the road not the speedometer

[Hey, if you cannot manage both then ......hmm.... not sure how to put this politely. Well, let's just say you should be able to. 

The human eye cannot focus on 2 seperate objects simultaneously, and it takes just over 1 second to remove your eyes from the road, focus on the speedo, and then refocus back on the road again.
1 second at 30mph = a distance of approx 42ft.......that's quite a distance to not have your eyes where they should be.

its a little further than that...

did captin speed camera ever get caught???

[05omegav6]

I you've got time to look at the speedo you're not even trying.

Many of the speed cameras I see are deliberately sited on hills or on good straight roads with unrealistically low speed limits, these can only be there to generate money.  Some areas, especially Bournemouth where my daughter lives, are simply infestested with the things.  I personally detest them so I bought a Road Angel 10 years ago and this has saved my licence. As said before look at the road not the speedometer.

Hey, if you cannot manage both, then ......hmm.... not sure how to put this politely. Well, let's just say you should be able to. 

The human eye cannot focus on 2 seperate objects simultaneously, and it takes just over 1 second to remove your eyes from the road, focus on the speedo, and then refocus back on the road again.
1 second at 30mph = a distance of approx 42ft.......that's quite a distance to not have your eyes where they should be.

Saying that, I'm currently doing my Class1, having just passed my Class2. Being taught to spend at least as much time looking in the mirrors as out the front. Make of that what you will...

[the alarming man]

really does depends on which way you are going.......

[05omegav6]

really does depends on which way you are going.......

Forwards apparantly it is a key part of effective observation... summat to do with mahoosive blindspots

[Kevin Wood]

really does depends on which way you are going.......

Forwards apparantly it is a key part of effective observation... summat to do with mahoosive blindspots

What percentage to you dedicate to page 3 of the sun, open on the dashboard, then?

[05omegav6]

  not allowed until Thursday lunchtime  ie AFTER my test

Oddly, the using a laptop whilst driving is also deemed too advanced for pre test lessons

[OOMV6]

Many of the speed cameras I see are deliberately sited on hills or on good straight roads with unrealistically low speed limits, these can only be there to generate money.  Some areas, especially Bournemouth where my daughter lives, are simply infestested with the things.  I personally detest them so I bought a Road Angel 10 years ago and this has saved my licence. As said before look at the road not the speedometer.

Hey, if you cannot manage both, then ......hmm.... not sure how to put this politely. Well, let's just say you should be able to. 

The human eye cannot focus on 2 seperate objects simultaneously, and it takes just over 1 second to remove your eyes from the road, focus on the speedo, and then refocus back on the road again.
1 second at 30mph = a distance of approx 42ft.......that's quite a distance to not have your eyes where they should be.

Still have to disagree with you there. And maybe you have hit the nail on the head as to why there is so much crap driving. There should be no focusing and refocusing needed. A tiny glance is enough, especially if it is your daily driver. You know where the numbers lie on the speedometer. For example, you're driving along, eyes forward to the road ahead, but you still "see" (loosely speaking) the car behind in the mirror. If it is your daily driver, you should be able to pretty accurately tell what speed you are doing +/- a few mph without even looking at all.
Additionally, with your theory, it would also seem a bad idea to check mirrors or look left or right whilst moving, or glance over the shoulder, as that would entail a focus / refocus situation. It has to be said there must be thousands of drivers that obviously hold that theory close to their heart, and practice it every day, unforunately.

[hotel21]

I think I delivered my version of roads justice failry and evenly over the time I applied it, be that the guy in his new Porche doing well on the wrong side of a ton at 4am on a deserted motorway getting a warning as well as the guy in his new Porche doing 40 in a 30 outside a playground getting booked as there were kids running about and chasing footballs onto the roadway.

Same fella, as it turns out, with the incidents 2 years apart.  He appreciated my viewpoint on both stops and graciously accepted the justice dealt out.

Speed camers (the fixed Gatso types) make the road about 150 yards either side of them speed compliant, sometimes a lot less distance.

As far as being placed on accident blackspots, ideal world would be able to define precise locations.  As it is, the submission and subsequent extrapolation of accident statistics mean that the length of the A123 or whatever is decreed a 'blackspot' between towns A and B.  That distance could easily measure a few miles.  The roads engineers and police authorities (not always the trafpol who deal with the accidents, mark you) then decide where the box is going to go.

Guess what?  Its not always at the blackspot but somewhere on the length of A to B.......   

[OOMV6]

Saying that, I'm currently doing my Class1, having just passed my Class2. Being taught to spend at least as much time looking in the mirrors as out the front. Make of that what you will...

A tad OTT maybe, but certainly a lot of validity in the statement

[Kevin Wood]

Still have to disagree with you there. And maybe you have hit the nail on the head as to why there is so much crap driving. There should be no focusing and refocusing needed. A tiny glance is enough, especially if it is your daily driver. You know where the numbers lie on the speedometer. For example, you're driving along, eyes forward to the road ahead, but you still "see" (loosely speaking) the car behind in the mirror. If it is your daily driver, you should be able to pretty accurately tell what speed you are doing +/- a few mph without even looking at all.

The fact is, any competent driver should be able to judge speed within probably 10% or so without looking at the speedo and distracting themselves from the road at all. For all practical purposes, that's accurate enough, but with camera pratnerships now perceived to be reporting people for a couple of MPH over the limit everyone's focused on nothing but the speedo.

I recently had a few flights in a glider with a very accomplished competition pilot who, after his first flight with me, covered the instrument panel so I was forced to fly by "feel" and keep my head out of the cockpit. It improved my flying no end. Same with driving. Our instruments don't tell us anything useful. Our eyes taking in our surroundings combined with our judgement are what are really important.

[05omegav6]

Saying that, I'm currently doing my Class1, having just passed my Class2. Being taught to spend at least as much time looking in the mirrors as out the front. Make of that what you will...

A tad OTT maybe, but certainly a lot of validity in the statement

The point being that as soon as you start staring, you're not actually taking in what is happening around you regardless of whether it is something in front, next to you or behind

The bigger the vehicle, the more critical this becomes, but it is valid even for cyclists/pedestrians (although why anyone would wish to walk anywhere is beyond me

[OOMV6]

Saying that, I'm currently doing my Class1, having just passed my Class2. Being taught to spend at least as much time looking in the mirrors as out the front. Make of that what you will...

A tad OTT maybe, but certainly a lot of validity in the statement

The point being that as soon as you start staring, you're not actually taking in what is happening around you regardless of whether it is something in front, next to you or behind
The bigger the vehicle, the more critical this becomes, but it is valid even for cyclists/pedestrians (although why anyone would wish to walk anywhere is beyond me

Yes, understood that to be the case. And it's a failing many have, it seems. But people end up forcing themselves into a stare situation by riding the back bumper of the car in front, especially at the higher speeds. They're so close they don't want to take their eyes off the back of the car for a nanosecond.

[Kevin Wood]

Yes, understood that to be the case. And it's a failing many have, it seems. But people end up forcing themselves into a stare situation by riding the back bumper of the car in front, especially at the higher speeds. They're so close they don't want to take their eyes off the back of the car for a nanosecond.

Yes, and when following closely they can't see the road ahead anyway. They're just watching for the red lights and hoping they can get on the brakes quick enough.

[Grrrrrr]

Volatile subject!

Apparently the number of women prosecuted rocketed after the camaras were brought in because they weren't influenced by a high hemline.