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[D]

and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner

I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.

Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either.

and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner

I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.

Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either.

I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. 
 
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
 
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..

they will be made specifically for uk or Turkey or whatever country at the factory. If indeed they decide to make a different specification. I tyre for ice land will be different to a tyre for Abu dabi.

I would add, that I later found them to have superb grip v wear levels, high lateral grip (corner speed) although not as much as sport maxx tt i suspect and not as planted either. Room for improvement, on noise certainly, but a good all round package with very little tram lining. Which I hate. Although the 010 Audi variant is not as stable as the MO mercededs variant, much to my annoyance. So you see, the Audi MUST have Differant chassis set up to the Mercedes that the tyre was designed for.

I later chose the MO version purely for Rim protection only. They where more stable. As MO needed replacing but weren't available I had to take 010. Less rim protection, less stable in a straight line.

But could it be that your suspension has deteriorated/worn or components have changed or not set up properly, that translates to you as a feeling of worse straight line stability.

[cem_devecioglu]

D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.

That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.

It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?

Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.

For your car only then? Yes?

Because you dont know how someone else drives, what state their bushes or suspension are in, heavy lpg tank over the axle or other confounding factors are. Therefore then everyone's opinion is useless to everyone else.

Seems an extremely cynical view to me, particularly as a forum's function is to share views so that others can draw on your experience to help them make an informed decision.

Which is also what these tyre tests try to do. Give you a base to start off. For eg: I buy an Omega, need to get some new tyres. where do I start? I see no harm in using tyre tests as a starting point as long as I dont blindly trust the evidence provided. Subjective owner reviews are less reliable i feel as there are even more confounding factors thrown into the mix.

I understand and agree with your point as well as TB's. Just seems excessively cynical to me. Variability is an inescapable fact of life. Even twins born from the same mother very often have different characterestics. Thus tyres made in the same factory can vary from batch to batch, affecting your perception of the tyre's performance.

ok then,  I have a question..  do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?

Nobody is suggesting tyre tests give the wrong info.  Merely that the info is based on irrelevant data to omega owners, certainly beyond a cartoon point... Because they are not and can not take into account the omega, and the driving style of the owner.

thats it.. 
 
but then you mess up again

[cem_devecioglu]

D it's for exactly the reasons you explain, quite rightly, that tyre tests are useless to us. There comes a point where they are irrelevant. IMO this point was passed years ago.

That's not to say the info on tyres inaccurate or wrong in any way.

It's simply too personal a thing, but only after a certain point. TB likes a car that turns in well without under stear. I like a car that doesn't tram line and holds good corner speed. Show me the tests for these ...?

Only first hand experience is relevant after a point in experience is passed.

For your car only then? Yes?

Because you dont know how someone else drives, what state their bushes or suspension are in, heavy lpg tank over the axle or other confounding factors are. Therefore then everyone's opinion is useless to everyone else.

Seems an extremely cynical view to me, particularly as a forum's function is to share views so that others can draw on your experience to help them make an informed decision.

Which is also what these tyre tests try to do. Give you a base to start off. For eg: I buy an Omega, need to get some new tyres. where do I start? I see no harm in using tyre tests as a starting point as long as I dont blindly trust the evidence provided. Subjective owner reviews are less reliable i feel as there are even more confounding factors thrown into the mix.

I understand and agree with your point as well as TB's. Just seems excessively cynical to me. Variability is an inescapable fact of life. Even twins born from the same mother very often have different characterestics. Thus tyres made in the same factory can vary from batch to batch, affecting your perception of the tyre's performance.

 

[cem_devecioglu]

and an important point, Bridgestone potenza is never tuned for Turkey .. I know very well because I had some "close" relation with them in the past .. Disturbed their management continously to import fresh tyres which they refused to do..
 
buyers here are very very limited as its an expensive tyre and they import potenza in numbers which can fit in a van
 

[feeutfo]

and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner

I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.

Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either.

I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. 
 
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
 
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..

well you might if you had his driving style... And therefor wouldn't take a tyre recommendation from Kevin or TB. We see it all the time, "what's the best tyre for the omega?" well that depends how you drive, and therefor, who you ask.

See?

Chris , if you expect me to accept a non scientific unproven statement against physics laws, you will wait forever..
 
as I told before tire depends on friction which is independent from both car and the driver..
 
but of  course a driver neglecting wet conditions and lower friction coefficient makes a big difference resulting with death
 

quite the opposite cem, we're/I am asking you to look closer, harder, with more intensity and depth to find a tyre that is exactly right for the car, the driver, down to personal taste and the finest detail. ...for exampl.

You need to look at it from the point of view of the consumer, the most fussy demanding awkward bugger you ever met.

[cem_devecioglu]

ok then,  I have a question..  do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?

The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.

However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.

How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?

Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ?      yes or no ?
 
 

[feeutfo]

ok then,  I have a question..  do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?

The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.

However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.

How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?

Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ?      yes or no ?
 
 

personal experience of a product. Your suggesting every review of any product is always correct in every circumstance ever conceived. This is not possible.

[feeutfo]

In effect what we actually want is the equivelant of, for example, an sc3 MO or 010.

That being, a tyre designed exactly for the omega, but with the drivers personal taste in mind. We will never get that, but as we'll be stuck with that expensive tyre choice for at least 10,000 miles, hopefully nearer double that, then IMO we need to leave no stone un turned in finding a tyre we are happy with.

[TheBoy]

OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.

Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever.  So whats different?

Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis.  I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.

The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests


For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.

[cem_devecioglu]

ok then,  I have a question..  do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?

The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.

However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.

How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?

Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ?      yes or no ?
 
 

personal experience of a product. Your suggesting every review of any product is always correct in every circumstance ever conceived. This is not possible.

nope.. the tyres frictions will be the same if the road surface is same.. if not (road surface) , it will be proportional with respect to the test list order.. because its measurement..    you dont weigh 150 kgs in Turkey while your are (assume) 90 kg in UK isnt it ?
 
now let me give detail.. most tests are done on short roads or test/race tracks where roads are fairly better..
 
why ? because the test makers know that if they make the test on bad roads car suspension system will effect measured meters/feet and timings..  but still the list order wont change..
 
and for handling.. thats not measurable I'm afraid..

[feeutfo]

and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner

I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.

Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either.

and Chris why do you for Contis generally which is also a test winner

I chose them for stability, as recomended by Kevin Woods suggestion, after the total nightmare I had with Falkens, as he had them(conti) on his omega, and is intelegent enough to know what works with a good experience of progressive driving.

Would you take a tyre recommendation from Tunnie for instance? No i certainly wouldn't either.

I'm sure Tunnie is not happy with this thread.. 
 
I must note potenzas are imported to here without any modification.. directly from Japan..
 
and also the goodyears.. but from different factories..

they will be made specifically for uk or Turkey or whatever country at the factory. If indeed they decide to make a different specification. I tyre for ice land will be different to a tyre for Abu dabi.

I would add, that I later found them to have superb grip v wear levels, high lateral grip (corner speed) although not as much as sport maxx tt i suspect and not as planted either. Room for improvement, on noise certainly, but a good all round package with very little tram lining. Which I hate. Although the 010 Audi variant is not as stable as the MO mercededs variant, much to my annoyance. So you see, the Audi MUST have Differant chassis set up to the Mercedes that the tyre was designed for.

I later chose the MO version purely for Rim protection only. They where more stable. As MO needed replacing but weren't available I had to take 010. Less rim protection, less stable in a straight line.

But could it be that your suspension has deteriorated/worn or components have changed or not set up properly, that translates to you as a feeling of worse straight line stability.

yes its cetainly possible, but...

I drove to Micheldever with worn MO. I visually checked the rearward bush while it was up on jacks,as I always do, and most here know I am obsessed with bush quality and stability.... they are fine, polly fronts fitted.

I left with brand new 010 and it instantly tram lined. Not badly, but noticeably more.

Only the front tyres where replaced.

Now, you tell me.....?

Just to add, I intend to jack and check bushes again today, but it's raining. Hence I'm chatting on here.

[D]

Perhaps if you replaced all 4 with the same type it might not have tramlined? Different batches from the same factory can behave differently IME.

[cem_devecioglu]

OK, I can say, categorically, of all the tyres I've driven on in an Omega, and thats an awful lot, not just on my own (which I've had for 9yrs), but many, many, many member's cars, without doubt, the most impressive tyres are the Dunlop Sport Maxx TT.

Most magazine type reviews slate them. Yet virtually all user reviews from owners of larger cars rate them very highly, wet, dry, whatever.  So whats different?

Sorry to keep banging on about it, but I wouldn't fit Pirelli P6000 to a wheelbarrow, let alone most cars. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt, and regretted it. Several times. Yet the P6000 is an absolutely stunning tyre on the Rover 25. That shows that tyres react differently on different chassis. So that shows that generic tyre reviews are invalid unless performed on the same chassis.  I have experienced this myself, I know it to be true, and it will take a lot of persuading to convince me otherwise. Dunlop SP3000 was a good, if not too durable, tyre on a leased Rover 400 we had, but is hopeless on an Omega.

The other reason I listen to User Reviews more than "Professional Tests" is you get an understanding over the life of the tyre. Most tyres have a high grip initial phase (which the Americans call Honeymoon Period of the tire tyre). This phase is irrelevent, as it soon wears through. Its probably there for marketting purposes, to make it perfrom better in such daft tests


For info, I would buy Sport Maxx TT again tomorrow, but in order to reduce running costs, I was looking to compromise slightly towards a more durable tyre. Hence looking at SC3.

 
Tests can also be done on old tyres.. however, old tyres subject to many many factors  such that you can never equalize their previous heat , sunlight,road surface, pressure factors ..  so to keep the variables minimum tests are done with new..
 
I have never seen tests done with old cars..  

[feeutfo]

Perhaps if you replaced all 4 with the same type it might not have tramlined?

Perhaps, or maybe it would be twice as bad. But at least you accept there is a difference.

[feeutfo]

ok then,  I have a question..  do you believe that ling longs or any avg tire will perform better than potenzas on the omega ?

The advantage that 'premium' brands have is less "difference" between dry and wet. The cheap budgets are usually "OK" in the dry, some actually quite good, but some are quite bad in the wet.

However, there are some budgets that do perform quite well. In my experience on Omegas, Kuhmo KU31 embarrasses a lot of premium brands, Bridgestone included. The downside of the KU31 is little feedback to the driver. Trying to think if I've driven an Omega on LingLongs, but I guess they are similar to must of the cheap, hard budgets. In which case, reasonable dry weather performance, woeful wet.

How do Autogrip FS107 perform in your tests - this is a tyre that should be banned. It will kill you. Yet I suspect it does OK in the budget group?

Mr Admin, you can be a good lawyer.. but you are not defencing a criminal ?      yes or no ?
 
 

personal experience of a product. Your suggesting every review of any product is always correct in every circumstance ever conceived. This is not possible.

nope.. the tyres frictions will be the same if the road surface is same.. if not (road surface) , it will be proportional with respect to the test list order.. because its measurement..    you dont weigh 150 kgs in Turkey while your are (assume) 90 kg in UK isnt it ?
 
now let me give detail.. most tests are done on short roads or test/race tracks where roads are fairly better..
 
why ? because the test makers know that if they make the test on bad roads car suspension system will effect measured meters/feet and timings..  but still the list order wont change..
 
and for handling.. thats not measurable I'm afraid..

your absolutely right, the test is perfectly accurate. But who cares, when parameters of the test ( ie the car, and to lesser extent the driver) are wrong.

And yes finally, handling / feel is not measurable. There for the test data is not relevant here.