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[Rods2]

The problem of having a universal benefits and a free health system is that they get abused. The womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it as a lifestyle choice, not only take money away from those that should get it but also stigmatize everybody that gets benefits. Those that use it as a lifestyle choice are so common, that I'm sure we all know people that do it. I know I do.

To me there is a very easy way to solve the womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it at a lifestyle choice, that would help their self-esteem, help them get a job, and get used to a work like routine. Yes, it would cost a bit of money but I think the benefits would be enormous.

This very simple idea is a job club. Everybody that is fit for work, spends 40 hours a week, learning how to write a CV, interview techniques and applying for jobs. If they need to improve basic skill they would also go to college part time for this. This is your full time job until you get a job. In return you get your benefits, if you don't agree or don't turn up then no benefits. Now if you had to spend 40 hours a week for 48 weeks of the year doing this for £67 a week or have a job that pays £250, the job starts to become a very attractive option, The new Universal benefits is being setup, so you will always be better off in work, so even womb for welfare women will be better off with a job. When a woman has a child, she has to join the program at 6 months, if she wants benefits, with the child going to a nursery.

If also de-stigmatizes those out of work as they have a full time job looking for another job, so they are not idle, benefit scroungers. There is tremendous opportunity to motivate people with it by celebrated as a real success every time somebody gets a job. I suspect this would greatly reduce our youth unemployment as many of them get demotivated when they can't get a job and also struggle with their presentation skills and what will be required of them at work compared to many people that get UK jobs from Europe.

Welfare can then be used much more effectively for those that can't work through illness and disability, which any decent society should support such unfortunate people to the best of their ability.

What do you think?

[geoffr70]

none of this will really matter after the realisation of the depopulation plan

[albitz]

Sounds like a good plant to me Rod.Although the Limpdems Liebore and the lefty media would strangle it at birth if not sooner.
Lets not forget that they are fighting tooth and nail against a proposal to limit households to a level of benefit which would require a salary of almost £40,000 per year if it was paid by an employer.They say it is cruel and will push children into extreme poverty and destroy their future potential.
These are very cynical people who rely on the continuation of the client state for their future careers.

[SIR Philbutt]

none of this will really matter after the realisation of the depopulation plan

Ever increasing populous and dwindling resources. How will the elite ensure the continuation of their position ?

[cem_devecioglu]

The problem of having a universal benefits and a free health system is that they get abused. The womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it as a lifestyle choice, not only take money away from those that should get it but also stigmatize everybody that gets benefits. Those that use it as a lifestyle choice are so common, that I'm sure we all know people that do it. I know I do.

To me there is a very easy way to solve the womb for welfare, the benefits cheats and those that use it at a lifestyle choice, that would help their self-esteem, help them get a job, and get used to a work like routine. Yes, it would cost a bit of money but I think the benefits would be enormous.

This very simple idea is a job club. Everybody that is fit for work, spends 40 hours a week, learning how to write a CV, interview techniques and applying for jobs. If they need to improve basic skill they would also go to college part time for this. This is your full time job until you get a job. In return you get your benefits, if you don't agree or don't turn up then no benefits. Now if you had to spend 40 hours a week for 48 weeks of the year doing this for £67 a week or have a job that pays £250, the job starts to become a very attractive option, The new Universal benefits is being setup, so you will always be better off in work, so even womb for welfare women will be better off with a job. When a woman has a child, she has to join the program at 6 months, if she wants benefits, with the child going to a nursery.

If also de-stigmatizes those out of work as they have a full time job looking for another job, so they are not idle, benefit scroungers. There is tremendous opportunity to motivate people with it by celebrated as a real success every time somebody gets a job. I suspect this would greatly reduce our youth unemployment as many of them get demotivated when they can't get a job and also struggle with their presentation skills and what will be required of them at work compared to many people that get UK jobs from Europe.

Welfare can then be used much more effectively for those that can't work through illness and disability, which any decent society should support such unfortunate people to the best of their ability.

What do you think?

good plan Rods..      seems like you grasped the idea of socialism better than most

[Rog]

none of this will really matter after the realisation of the depopulation plan

Ever increasing populous and dwindling resources. How will the elite ensure the continuation of their position ?

Oh I'm sure I'll manage somehow         

[TheBoy]

Back before the government insisted that benefits had to be paid into an account, I used to queue in postoffices to post my shite, stuck in queues (why do the great unwashed, and old people, go to the PO at lunchtime, when they have all day?), and used to watch the Bletchley Retards pick up their giro, then head straight to the lottery counter and buy their fags and lotto tickets, often £30+ (remember this was a good few years ago). I was in full time employment and couldn't afford £30 on such shite.

We have an ex-family member who did the council-house mentality of leaving school, getting up the duff, getting a council house and a lifetime of benefits. When she was moaning about benefits being cut, and how hard it was going to be for her, I did suggest she looks at employment, as her brat was (then) about 10. Her answer, quoted, "I don't see why I should have to work"

I applaud the government's plan to keep the lazy's benefits way below inflation, and pensions at inflation (ish). Its not perfect, and some who genuinely do deserve, will fall the wrong side of the rises. BUT its a step in the right direction.


Its probably a good job I'll never get voted in.


The trouble is, the politicians have to pander to the benefit scroungers, as these are now a significant proportion of the voting population. Obviously, there is a simple solution to that problem.


As to jobs, I think we in the UK have a problem in that we do not prepare our youth for work, with too much emphasis on getting the school's stats up. And we have devalued the degree so much that having one does not guarantee you can walk into a high paid job, but nobody has told the students. The vast majority of graduate interviewees that are put in front of me for job interviews are, basically, unemployable, yet think they have a right to the job on offer, and because they can run the setup wizard on their home broadband router, makes them a networking god.

[Sir Tigger KC]

A couple aged about 25 rented a house from me last year.  Neither of them worked.  She had chronic asthma and he'd just had an operation on his knee and lost his job as a chef, as he wouldn't be able stand for long periods for about 3 or 4 months while it healed.  They seemed nice enough, if a bit down on their luck.  They had a solid family background with professional parents and he assured me that as soon as he was able he'd be back in work! 

A year on neither are still working.  Despite her chronic asthma she's often stood in the doorway in her dressing gown smoking and when I inspected the property recently it was thick in dust..    He hasn't gone back to work even though his knee is now OK.  I think basically they've realised that they can have a reasonable standard of living on benefits, so why bother..... 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

what about me im 52  i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist

Exactly!

Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48.  I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week.  Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others.  Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!

That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes.  In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".

Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.

As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other.    

[johnnybbad]

what about me im 52  i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist

Exactly!

Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48.  I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week.  Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others.  Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!

That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes.  In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".

Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.

As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other.

I agree with what you say there, but hasnt there always been a divide between groups of people ( ie upper class, middle class, working class )

If through the years you have invested in the state, ie tax and ni, then you surely have the right to benefits when needed.

What i dont like is the people that have never put anything into this country, but expect everything out of it !

[Terbs]

what about me im 52  i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist

Exactly!

Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48.  I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week.  Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others.  Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!

That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes.  In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".

Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.

As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other.

I agree with what you say there, but hasnt there always been a divide between groups of people ( ie upper class, middle class, working class )

If through the years you have invested in the state, ie tax and ni, then you surely have the right to benefits when needed.
What i dont like is the people that have never put anything into this country, but expect everything out of it !

Exactly......sort this out and you will be getting somewhere
The state has more information on us than we will ever believe, so there must be ways of splitting the worthy from the unworthy.
If there are no jobs to be had, people have to be supported.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

what about me im 52  i left school at 16 got an aprentichip as a chef didnt like it but got qualifide at the same time went to night school got motor egjneering and welding city& guilds at the same time for 32yrs until 2008 i was 48 xmas holidaynever missed a days work in 32 years collapsed i have never and will never work again acording to this you better kill me now because in her world disabled peopl dont exist

Exactly!

Not many know this, but after working from the age of 12 in the retail trade, and rising to the top in my business I collapsed with a complete mental breakdown at the age of 48.  I tried to recover, and went back to work in a very demanding industry that the retail arena is, and had an even greater mental health breakdown 5 years later, after working hard, and juggling with family demands along with my career, for over 41 years. After much time in hospital and losing everything, including all savings, I could only do voluntary work for a few hours a week.  Working with the Police, the CPS, and NHS, I have again built up some strength and committed myself to helping others.  Due to a healthy company pension scheme of old I will retire at 60, but without benefits aiding me in my survival, I simply would not have survived!

That is why I feel so strongly about a society that is threatening to pull the rug from under those who need significant help, who are not the "lazy", but have committed most of their lives to hard work and, in my case, paid in very high taxes.  In fact everyone should remember it could happen to them, and when they need help from the state they should be able to get it in a "caring society".

Also think that when certain politicians come out with derogatory statements about those "who have their curtains still closed when you go to work", 60% of those on benefits actually DO work.

As I have said before beware of the current government turning one sector of the people against the other.

I agree with what you say there, but hasnt there always been a divide between groups of people ( ie upper class, middle class, working class )

If through the years you have invested in the state, ie tax and ni, then you surely have the right to benefits when needed.

What i dont like is the people that have never put anything into this country, but expect everything out of it !

Yes, there has been that divide and it is about time we all worked on trying to eradicate it.  We are all equal in the eyes of God (or whoever/whatever people believe in) and we should shape our 21st century lives accordingly

I fully agree though that there are people who scrounge off others, some with benefits, others through crime or both.  But they are a relatively small minority so the whole of society should not be judged on that basis.  As said, we all know of some people in our local communities that fit into that bracket, but the whole of government policy should never be based on what a minority do.

It would be more beneficial for all if the super rich and international companies were not allowed to "scrounge", as surely they are on the back of you and me, as much as 'Jim' down the road who, is one of the few, lives on benefits but does not want to work. The latter involves pounds, the former often involves millions of pounds. The common factor that links both is of course that they are operating within the law. The real scroungers are those who operate outside the law and rob us all of billions through their criminal ways, and they are the ones any government of worth should target.  Oh, but of course police numbers have been cut, so billions of criminal activity goes unpunished, untaxed, and taken away from public coffers!   They are also a harder target for governments to go for, than the easy ones of Jim down the road, or Mary who has not paid her TV license. Fairness does not come into the real World, and politicians play on that.

[Terbs]

Unfortunately, its a vicious circle of trying to justify and not justifying....
For example....stop 'Ms womb for benefits' payouts, and the cry goes out.....the children will suffer. So what do you do with the children !!!!!!!! Take them away Opens up all sorts of issues.

As I think cem said earlier....its where our money goes from the UK pot. Offshore tax havens, etc, Overseas aid, ludicrous projects like HS2 which will cost billions more than the government have stated. I once had a high paid job, where I was responsible for the wages/lifestyles of my employees....and it has to be said, when you have it, you ain't worried about those who haven't !!!!!!!!

Surely, instead of moaning about pensioners, if those who have contributed all their lives to the system, had a decent return, they would make way for younger people to get on the ladder to pay their way with taxes and NI. Again the vicious circle criteria !! If governments spent our money where it is needed, and I mean at home, and wisely, then the present mess would not be as bad.

As another example of costs....my mother is 92. She was in the forces in the war, serving in London all through the blitz....she worked all the time we were kids up until her later years. She (and my late father, and stepfather) paid in all their lives, fought for this country.....now we want to put my mother in a respite home to give us a break, and its costing £3,330.00 for 4 weeks....no state help at all.
Is it any wonder  that my mother is bitter about immigrants, benefit scroungers, nhs tourists and the like.....she paid her way

[Rog]

My problem with all of this is that I personally know two people (one is a close relative) who bleed the system dry. One has only had one job that I know of for a few weeks in her teens (now late 50s). Zero earned income, yet satellite subscription TV, smokes, rent all paid for etc, you get the picture. This tends to influence my opinion.

I fully accept that there are many "on benefits" who genuinely need this help. But just how does one sort the chaff from the wheat ? The undeserving really know how to work the system and it's hard to sift them out.

[cleggy]

Unfortunately, its a vicious circle of trying to justify and not justifying....
For example....stop 'Ms womb for benefits' payouts, and the cry goes out.....the children will suffer. So what do you do with the children !!!!!!!! Take them away Opens up all sorts of issues.

As I think cem said earlier....its where our money goes from the UK pot. Offshore tax havens, etc, Overseas aid, ludicrous projects like HS2 which will cost billions more than the government have stated. I once had a high paid job, where I was responsible for the wages/lifestyles of my employees....and it has to be said, when you have it, you ain't worried about those who haven't !!!!!!!!

Surely, instead of moaning about pensioners, if those who have contributed all their lives to the system, had a decent return, they would make way for younger people to get on the ladder to pay their way with taxes and NI. Again the vicious circle criteria !! If governments spent our money where it is needed, and I mean at home, and wisely, then the present mess would not be as bad.

As another example of costs....my mother is 92. She was in the forces in the war, serving in London all through the blitz....she worked all the time we were kids up until her later years. She (and my late father, and stepfather) paid in all their lives, fought for this country.....now we want to put my mother in a respite home to give us a break, and its costing £3,330.00 for 4 weeks....no state help at all.
Is it any wonder  that my mother is bitter about immigrants, benefit scroungers, nhs tourists and the like.....she paid her way

This is exactly why this country makes me sick to the stomach, the priorities are all wrong. your mum deserves the best but can't get it because of the handouts to immigrants, benefit wombs, foreign aid, crackpot funding of schemes for global warming. We should and must put our own first, those who have contributed and worked hard, even more so risked their lives to make this country what it is.

What comes first, the needs of your mum and the genuinely needy, or the single mother of five with three different fathers never worked a day in her life getting everything paid for, living the live of riley at our expense.