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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

Thanks Cem for that information!

As for the USA, under President Obama, it is becoming increasingly isolationist and will involve itself far less in other people's wars / arguments (as per their Constitution)  and will happily accept less influence "on the ground", instead using diplomacy to achieve their political aims.

Some will say this is a good thing, others not, but whatever it is their decision and the rest of the world must now get on and resolve their issues, as so many of the western countries did in the past, on their own.

we could, if left on our own
 
and I think, we demonstrated a very good example in history despite all west armies

Yes to both Cem

[cem_devecioglu]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

Thanks Cem for that information!

As for the USA, under President Obama, it is becoming increasingly isolationist and will involve itself far less in other people's wars / arguments (as per their Constitution)  and will happily accept less influence "on the ground", instead using diplomacy to achieve their political aims.

Some will say this is a good thing, others not, but whatever it is their decision and the rest of the world must now get on and resolve their issues, as so many of the western countries did in the past, on their own.

we could, if left on our own
 
and I think, we demonstrated a very good example in history despite all west armies

Yes to both Cem

thanks Lizzie 

[tigers_gonads]

Cem, i'll tell you what, if you all chip if with the airfare, we will send you our Mr T Blair and Mr G Brown across to you so they can run your country for you
You can have them for 15 years 
Then you will understand what real democracy is .................. 

In fact, because we love you all so much you can keep them 

[cleggy]

Cem, i'll tell you what, if you all chip if with the airfare, we will send you our Mr T Blair and Mr G Brown across to you so they can run your country for you
You can have them for 15 years 
Then you will understand what real democracy is .................. 

In fact, because we love you all so much you can keep them 

 

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem, i'll tell you what, if you all chip if with the airfare, we will send you our Mr T Blair and Mr G Brown across to you so they can run your country for you
You can have them for 15 years 
Then you will understand what real democracy is .................. 

In fact, because we love you all so much you can keep them

 
 
please keep in mind there always worse than the worse!

[Rods2]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

This east / west divide is interesting as it is exactly the same in the country north of you Ukraine. The western side is pro-EU and western style democracy and the eastern side pro-Russian and a much more authoritarian form of democracy. The fact that both countries have this split suggests geography has a strong say in their style of politics and government,where they are both a gateway and a division between east and west, that both countries reflect this division with an east-west political divide looking in their respective directions.

At the moment Ukraine has an Eastern based president and government and this is reflected in the way it is governed.

[cem_devecioglu]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

This east / west divide is interesting as it is exactly the same in the country north of you Ukraine. The western side is pro-EU and western style democracy and the eastern side pro-Russian and a much more authoritarian form of democracy. The fact that both countries have this split suggests geography has a strong say in their style of politics and government,where they are both a gateway and a division between east and west, that both countries reflect this division with an east-west political divide looking in their respective directions.

At the moment Ukraine has an Eastern based president and government and this is reflected in the way it is governed.

Good observation Rods.. 

Turkey however is a bit different.. the west east seperation is more like west or iran model which is very different than a Russian model..

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

This east / west divide is interesting as it is exactly the same in the country north of you Ukraine. The western side is pro-EU and western style democracy and the eastern side pro-Russian and a much more authoritarian form of democracy. The fact that both countries have this split suggests geography has a strong say in their style of politics and government,where they are both a gateway and a division between east and west, that both countries reflect this division with an east-west political divide looking in their respective directions.

At the moment Ukraine has an Eastern based president and government and this is reflected in the way it is governed.

Good observation Rods.. 

Turkey however is a bit different.. the west east seperation is more like west or iran model which is very different than a Russian model..

Yes I agree also with Rods2 and his excellent observation.

From a personal view and observation, it was very noticeable how the young Slovakian, Romanian, and Ukrainian students at university, who were well versed in their respective countries political history, were so pro-western politics and our way of life.  They saw that as their future, with a determination to do something about their countries politics to advance true democracy.  They said, bar none, that their parents often recalled with fondness the USSR, but they and the young generally now rejected that way of life, seeking a western style of living.

They said Communism still existed, but was generally only supported by some of the elderly.

Change will happen of course in Eastern Europe, but it will take a lot more time.  In Turkey currently that change is again going through a very painful period as Great Britain did in the 18th and 20th centuries:y  

[cem_devecioglu]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

This east / west divide is interesting as it is exactly the same in the country north of you Ukraine. The western side is pro-EU and western style democracy and the eastern side pro-Russian and a much more authoritarian form of democracy. The fact that both countries have this split suggests geography has a strong say in their style of politics and government,where they are both a gateway and a division between east and west, that both countries reflect this division with an east-west political divide looking in their respective directions.

At the moment Ukraine has an Eastern based president and government and this is reflected in the way it is governed.

Good observation Rods.. 

Turkey however is a bit different.. the west east seperation is more like west or iran model which is very different than a Russian model..

Yes I agree also with Rods2 and his excellent observation.

From a personal view and observation, it was very noticeable how the young Slovakian, Romanian, and Ukrainian students at university, who were well versed in their respective countries political history, were so pro-western politics and our way of life.  They saw that as their future, with a determination to do something about their countries politics to advance true democracy.  They said, bar none, that their parents often recalled with fondness the USSR, but they and the young generally now rejected that way of life, seeking a western style of living.

They said Communism still existed, but was generally only supported by some of the elderly.

Change will happen of course in Eastern Europe, but it will take a lot more time.  In Turkey currently that change is again going through a very painful period as Great Britain did in the 18th and 20th centuries:y

Lizzie  you are provokiing me to start again 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

This east / west divide is interesting as it is exactly the same in the country north of you Ukraine. The western side is pro-EU and western style democracy and the eastern side pro-Russian and a much more authoritarian form of democracy. The fact that both countries have this split suggests geography has a strong say in their style of politics and government,where they are both a gateway and a division between east and west, that both countries reflect this division with an east-west political divide looking in their respective directions.

At the moment Ukraine has an Eastern based president and government and this is reflected in the way it is governed.

Good observation Rods.. 

Turkey however is a bit different.. the west east seperation is more like west or iran model which is very different than a Russian model..

Yes I agree also with Rods2 and his excellent observation.

From a personal view and observation, it was very noticeable how the young Slovakian, Romanian, and Ukrainian students at university, who were well versed in their respective countries political history, were so pro-western politics and our way of life.  They saw that as their future, with a determination to do something about their countries politics to advance true democracy.  They said, bar none, that their parents often recalled with fondness the USSR, but they and the young generally now rejected that way of life, seeking a western style of living.

They said Communism still existed, but was generally only supported by some of the elderly.

Change will happen of course in Eastern Europe, but it will take a lot more time.  In Turkey currently that change is again going through a very painful period as Great Britain did in the 18th and 20th centuries:y

Lizzie  you are provokiing me to start again 

 

By the way Cem, I meant to say the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries in my highlighted statement!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears.  So it will be in Turkey I suspect.  

[cem_devecioglu]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

communist parties    (one is workers party but communist also)

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

this "pillagers" will cost him more than he can imagine.. he has lost taksim square in 5 days can say bye bye to his "presidential" dreams.. and more..

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears. So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

will be but cant predict how long and with what cost 

[cem_devecioglu]

picture of the day from Adana

[sassanach]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears.  So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

i sure the president of turkey is sh+tting himself now lizzie

[cem_devecioglu]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears.  So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

i sure the president of turkey is sh+tting himself now lizzie

looking at the amount of gas they are farting ,must be very close