Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Afaik you cant exempt yourself from the working time directive. You can exempt yourself from the 48 hour element of it, but not the rest, such as 11 hour breaks between shifts ? 
I may be wrong though ? 

[Andy B]

...
 Hospitals should be as competent and able to treat the sick on Saturdays and Sundays as they are Monday to Friday.

Hospitals do kinda manage a 24 hr A&E. 12 months ago my daughter was admitted to the local A&E at about 2300 one Sunday evening with what turned out to be kidney stones. She was treated there and then sent by ambulance at about 2 in the morning to another hospital where they still had the staff around to diagnose & treat her. (the fact she had to go to another hospital 10 miles away is a completely different headline).

[Andy B]

My normal rota is 12 shifts per 4 weeks. 10 nightshifts, 2 day shifts. 4 of the nightshifts are at weekends. A total of 162 hours.
I go on overtime rate (time and a half) if I work any extra shifts over and above this, to cover holidays or sickness. Otherwise, its all at standard rate, even on Christmas day.....

I go to work 14 days out of 28 ..... 5 days in, 3 days off, 6 days in & then the other way round, most are 12 hours, others are only 9. Any overtime is at time & a half apart from the rare Sunday which is double time.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

A&E yes, up to a point. Wards are a different story.

[Broomies Mate]

There are a handful of complete morons who try to demand having their breaks at set times everyday, irrespective of the fact that the timings of flights and workload is never the same two days running... really grips my shit, that if you get allocated a job in 25 minutes time, then that's enough time to have two cups of tea and half your sandwiches... the fact that you don't officially get your break for six or seven hours is almost irrelevant as you have probably been sat around for a third of that time

Hi forking Five!

Do the job you have enrolled to do.  Too many people work within stupid rules and claim "I need a break now, I've been sat here for 4 hours".   Forking idiots.

I bet even our Eton educated leader doesn't take 'statutory' breaks.

[05omegav6]

....
The other thing is that if you work permanent days, then you get paid £Xd, if you work 2 days/2nights/4 off, then you get half the night enhancement (25p an hour), and if you do permanent nights, then you get full night enhancement (50p).  .....

You get just 50 pence per hour for working nights? 

That's the difference between the permanent days and permanent nights pay rate... applies across the operation. But it will be interesting to see what happens when the next living wage rise kicks in... because our terminal day shifts on the current living wage... if they get a rise to keep pace then that should filter up the pile

[Broomies Mate]

A&E yes, up to a point. Wards are a different story.

Why?  Why does it make a difference?  Have you worked on a Ward in a regional hospital?  Have you worked in A&E?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I have spent a lot of time in A&E and on wards in the last ten years. Not as a worker though.
Point is that wards - at least in my local area are run by a skeleton staff at weekends, who keep things ticking over until Monday.

[Gaffers]

There's a table here to show things as simply as possible

We will fight contract imposition, says BMA
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35548091

I was looking at that table earlier and found it misleading,  the synic in me thinks there may be a small amount of deliberate obfuscation of the truth in it.

table on the left presents % as a whole, the other 2 represent amount + x%.  eg 120% of basic vs basic + 30%, the second one is actually higher but looks smaller.  At least subconsciously anyhow.

This strike is about nothing but money, ok there is a little bit of politics here (oooo look at the nasty tories killing the NHS) but 95% about the money.  At every turn the BMA will make you think it is about patient safety but those arguments are simply BS and the arguements don't stand up to scruteny. 

BMA: "These plans will affect patient safety"
Interviewer: "Can you explain how? "
BMA: "No, but trust me, I'm a doctor"
 

We were working long hours in Afghan at the hospital, minimum 8 but upto 14 hours a day 7 days a week.  People were working long shifts and dealing with some pretty horrific and busy work patterns, without a pay rise.  They looked at patient outcomes and Bastion Role 3 hospital was rated the best in the world for trauma.  Why?  Because the specialists and the management (leadership) weren't afraid to make some pretty ballsy decisions and changes to the fundemental doctrine we had not changed in decades.  Changes such as taking the front door of A&E to the scene of the incident, including damage control surgery in the back of a chinook (which when I saw it in action just blew me away)

If something didn't work we changed it.

Nobody cried.  Some still sadly died.

We learned, we adapted and we worked hard.  The men and women I had the honour of working alongside did some amazing things and saved many lives.

I think it is sad that what is mostly just a financial isue is being hidden by this "Patient Safety" arguement.  It has already been proven that if you have a stroke at the weekend you are more likely to die than if you have one during the week.  Where is the patient safety arguement here?  Why is nobody on the front line or the BMA suggesting or making fundemental changes to how they work in order to change that?

[Broomies Mate]

I have spent a lot of time in A&E and on wards in the last ten years. Not as a worker though.
Point is that wards - at least in my local area are run by a skeleton staff at weekends, who keep things ticking over until Monday.

Wards have a set number of beds.
A&E is completely in the hands of the Beer Gods.

See the difference?

[05omegav6]

Afaik you cant exempt yourself from the working time directive. You can exempt yourself from the 48 hour element of it, but not the rest, such as 11 hour breaks between shifts ? 
I may be wrong though ? 

They are using it to restrict over time... ie you can't work more than six days in a row, but in the same breath, you cannot work any shift within 48hrs of the end of a night shift. Poppycockhorseshit to that

As an industry, aviation is exempt from elements of the WTD due to the variable nature of the industry... also we're required to be present even if there are no flights scheduled as the runway is 24 hour and there's no end of flights over the UK, any number of which can potentially divert in with an emergency.

Point is, you do what you need to to get done... we're mobile, not part of a chain gang and within reason get to make our own breaks... if it's busy, and you're passing the crewroom and are thirsty, you'll nip in and grab a drink to go... you keep your bag in your vehicle, so you have your food with you... if it's quiet then you're in the crew room already, so you can cook a hot meal and eat it at leisure. Simples.

Say you work in a warehouse, and part of your job is taking dead packaging out ton the bins. If you're a smoker and are going out to the bins, then you're clearly going to have a swift puff on the way back

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Yes, they have a set number of beds, but there aren't enough staff (particularily doctors) at weekends to treat the patients in those beds.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Afaik you cant exempt yourself from the working time directive. You can exempt yourself from the 48 hour element of it, but not the rest, such as 11 hour breaks between shifts ? 
I may be wrong though ? 

They are using it to restrict over time... ie you can't work more than six days in a row, but in the same breath, you cannot work any shift within 48hrs of the end of a night shift. Poppycockhorseshit to that

As an industry, aviation is exempt from elements of the WTD due to the variable nature of the industry... also we're required to be present even if there are no flights scheduled as the runway is 24 hour and there's no end of flights over the UK, any number of which can potentially divert in with an emergency.

Point is, you do what you need to to get done... we're mobile, not part of a chain gang and within reason get to make our own breaks... if it's busy, and you're passing the crewroom and are thirsty, you'll nip in and grab a drink to go... you keep your bag in your vehicle, so you have your food with you... if it's quiet then you're in the crew room already, so you can cook a hot meal and eat it at leisure. Simples.

Say you work in a warehouse, and part of your job is taking dead packaging out ton the bins. If you're a smoker and are going out to the bins, then you're clearly going to have a swift puff on the way back

You will never make it to management with that attitude. Far too much common sense. 

[Broomies Mate]

Yes, they have a set number of beds, but there aren't enough staff (particularily doctors) at weekends to treat the patients in those beds.

Have you spent any time in a Hospital?  A Doctor is not required 99% of the time on a ward.

I don't see the point you are trying to make?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Yes, they have a set number of beds, but there aren't enough staff (particularily doctors) at weekends to treat the patients in those beds.

Have you spent any time in a Hospital?  A Doctor is not required 99% of the time on a ward.

I don't see the point you are trying to make?

Lots. The point Im making is that when a doctor is needed at weekends, it is often very difficult for staff to locate one (or a suitably qualified one, depending on the illness) ,as they are often very thin on the ground.