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[raywilb]

how does water from the header tank end up in the sump when engine has not been started. I cannot get my head round it, so a complete mystery to me

[Mr Gav]

Cracked head or block are the only ways I can think of 

[Bojan]

Is there oil in the heade tank?
Does 2.2 DTI have cilinder liners?
If so, they have seal-rings -> when they fail, cooland drips down from space between liners and block down to the sump.

[Nick W]

how does water from the header tank end up in the sump when engine has not been started. I cannot get my head round it, so a complete mystery to me

Gravity.
The header tank is higher than the engine.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Has this lump been overheated?

[Bojan]

Does it force oil into the coolant (oil in coolant tank)?

[raywilb]

Has this lump been overheated?

no even before it started losing coolant in large amounts ( did tend to lose a little since I bought it :e.g  1/2 pt over two weeks )  but a pint then two over night. it never once over heated & did three journeys of over three hundred miles in 3 wks & general running around locally every day. I have a thread on General Help of what I found when I took the head off last night. I could do with some knowledgeable input about that. myself will attempt all routine maintenance brakes, steering etc . but what I'm on with now may as well be white mans magic as I haven't a Scooby. 

[raywilb]

  I may add I don't drive stupidly but I don't hang around when motorway driving. that's why I like the migs    and even doing high speeds it drove well. always started ok. never used oil. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Racking my brains, its been a long time since I touched a 2.2dti.

When you did the head did you do the timing chains etc?

If so when you took off the chain cover, did you drop the sump and renew all the seals?

I seem to recall that the water ways run through part of the timing cover and have a distant recollection of timing cover being forced back on (as the sump was still in place) which nicked the headgaskets and caused the same symptoms.

[raywilb]

Racking my brains, its been a long time since I touched a 2.2dti.

When you did the head did you do the timing chains etc?

If so when you took off the chain cover, did you drop the sump and renew all the seals?

I seem to recall that the water ways run through part of the timing cover and have a distant recollection of timing cover being forced back on (as the sump was still in place) which nicked the headgaskets and caused the same symptoms.

I only started the work last friday. at the mo crank & injector pump are locked. the sump & oil pan came off yesterday. I never realised it was such a task. I suspect a cracked head. if you would please read the post in general help it explains what I found. it is ready to put back together. I have timing kit & head gasket kit , timing cover gasket + oil seal also a new pulley bolt. I also have a new water pump as the one on was just like a biscuit.. had to be renewed. I am waiting for the sump gasket. i suppose the best way may be head on first , sort timing, cover then sump. so nothing get damaged. it was hard work just getting the timing cover off. thankyou all input is greatly appreciated. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

What state was the timing cover gasket in?

Did it look like it had been messed with previously?

Was the head crack tested?

I have seen the 1.7 Isuzu lump crack blocks when over heated but the 2.0/2.2 has always been bullet proof.

As a general test, given the stage you are at, can you block off the water ways in the block and fill the block with water to see if it remains where it should?

[zirk]

Racking my brains, its been a long time since I touched a 2.2dti.

When you did the head did you do the timing chains etc?

If so when you took off the chain cover, did you drop the sump and renew all the seals?

I seem to recall that the water ways run through part of the timing cover and have a distant recollection of timing cover being forced back on (as the sump was still in place) which nicked the headgaskets and caused the same symptoms.

I only started the work last friday. at the mo crank & injector pump are locked. the sump & oil pan came off yesterday. I never realised it was such a task. I suspect a cracked head. if you would please read the post in general help it explains what I found. it is ready to put back together. I have timing kit & head gasket kit , timing cover gasket + oil seal also a new pulley bolt. I also have a new water pump as the one on was just like a biscuit.. had to be renewed. I am waiting for the sump gasket. i suppose the best way may be head on first , sort timing, cover then sump. so nothing get damaged. it was hard work just getting the timing cover off. thankyou all input is greatly appreciated. 

This is a good example of what I was saying a few weeks back, your starting new threads all over the place in different sections, pretty much all for the same problem / Job.

Keep it all on track on the same thread, that way, people can read the thread and keep up with the progress, rather than having to jump around trying to keep track of whats going on. 

[raywilb]

What state was the timing cover gasket in?

Did it look like it had been messed with previously?

Was the head crack tested?

I have seen the 1.7 Isuzu lump crack blocks when over heated but the 2.0/2.2 has always been bullet proof.

As a general test, given the stage you are at, can you block off the water ways in the block and fill the block with water to see if it remains where it should?

i  wouldn't know really what to do. i was going to take the head today but another offer of a head has come along  for just a few quid more than a crack test & its a good head complete with camshaft & cam cover. at the start of all this loss of coolant it seemed to disappear overnight never an hiccup whilst driving. it has been suggested to me that the head bolts if used before may have been the problem. as i said the bolts were not as tight as i thought they should of been. i have just had a look at old gasket. so will try & describe ; in general there is no splits at all on the gasket ( although its in 3 layers but together ) at the start of the gasket and in between each pot there is a pear shaped piece that has two holes in it, one is oblong & other is round. well they seem ok.  On the block itself at the edge of all 4 pistons there are two kidney bean shaped holes which as left a smear of emulsion on the gasket when i removed it. that is the first sign of emulsion anywhere. does that give any clues.

[TD]

Has this lump been overheated?

no even before it started losing coolant in large amounts ( did tend to lose a little since I bought it :e.g  1/2 pt over two weeks )  but a pint then two over night. it never once over heated & did three journeys of over three hundred miles in 3 wks & general running around locally every day. I have a thread on General Help of what I found when I took the head off last night. I could do with some knowledgeable input about that. myself will attempt all routine maintenance brakes, steering etc . but what I'm on with now may as well be white mans magic as I haven't a Scooby. 

It may of overheated....just because the temp gauge didn't go into red or higher than normal doesn't mean it didn't overheat.
A Passat I once drove....
The water pump driven by the cambelt decided it didn't want to play ball anymore and promptly dumped all the coolant on the M4 about 3 miles from jn15....I carried on driving it at 70mph as I wasn't getting any warning lights and the temp gauge stayed at normal....About 200yds from home the engine cut out... it was later discovered the cambelt had jumped so much.
New water pump and cambelt kit it was back on the road.....but that engine must of overheated with no coolant in it.....even tho the temp stayed at normal. Plus it started using about a litre of coolant every couple of weeks.

[raywilb]

Has this lump been overheated?

no even before it started losing coolant in large amounts ( did tend to lose a little since I bought it :e.g  1/2 pt over two weeks )  but a pint then two over night. it never once over heated & did three journeys of over three hundred miles in 3 wks & general running around locally every day. I have a thread on General Help of what I found when I took the head off last night. I could do with some knowledgeable input about that. myself will attempt all routine maintenance brakes, steering etc . but what I'm on with now may as well be white mans magic as I haven't a Scooby. 

It may of overheated....just because the temp gauge didn't go into red or higher than normal doesn't mean it didn't overheat.
A Passat I once drove....
The water pump driven by the cambelt decided it didn't want to play ball anymore and promptly dumped all the coolant on the M4 about 3 miles from jn15....I carried on driving it at 70mph as I wasn't getting any warning lights and the temp gauge stayed at normal....About 200yds from home the engine cut out... it was later discovered the cambelt had jumped so much.
New water pump and cambelt kit it was back on the road.....but that engine must of overheated with no coolant in it.....even tho the temp stayed at normal. Plus it started using about a litre of coolant every couple of weeks.

  I didn't lose any coolant until the car was stationary & it dumped it in the sump. the sensors on these migs I would say are quite sensitive a low coolant warning will appear even if its only a cupful needed .   in the two weeks prior to the problem I probably did 1200 miles on trips to various places. so an overheating issue would be a blown engine I think