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[Banjax]

I do not like the word "strike"...........it implies that most people on"strike"...............are a bunch of lazy.......selfish......greedy.....breakless ......left wing trouble makers......NOT TRUE.
I much prefer the expression "withdrawl of labour"....
EVERYBODY DOES/OR SHOULD HAVE .......the right to withdraw their labour if they feel that they are being unfairly treated....by their employers.
It is action usually taken as a last resort......most people would rather not withdraw their labour.....but sometimes .....it is necessary .....sadly. :-/ :-/ :-/

reminds when pop songs used to be about stuff
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxMvb9VrzY[/media]

afraid the media has choked debate, now we as a nation grudgingly accept worse terms and conditions longer and more anti-social hours - we're all wandering blindly back to a place where workers had no rights - as optimo rightly says - a withdrawal of labour is a right in a free, democratic society - i hope no-one is driven to it and i'm sure the last thing the postal workers want to do is not work and not get paid, but if more of us looked at the big picture maybe we'd have more sympathy instead of this "i'm alright Jack" attitude that some of our more myopic members seem to have. hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it and the workers and the royal mail can continue - i'm sure we'll find there's blame on both sides and with the notable exceptions of the Independent and Guardian (those bastions of the working class ) our media seem hellbent on portraying anyone taking industrial action as lazy, selfish and greedy   - i for one aren't buying it 

[Richie London]

i do know that 2 years ago i was earning the same in 1 day as my mate was getting for 5 days delivering the post.if he didnt start at 5am and finish at 4pm, in the afternoon, for 6 days a week. hes pay wasnt worth a toss. i wouldnt work for it no matter how desperate i was.

[Andy B]

i do know that 2 years ago i was earning the same in 1 day as my mate was getting for 5 days delivering the post.if he didnt start at 5am and finish at 4pm, in the afternoon, for 6 days a week. hes pay wasnt worth a toss. i wouldnt work for it no matter how desperate i was.
 

My postie mate's Christmas bonus one year was ...........





a sheet of stamps!!!  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?

[albitz]

If this was a simple matter of them striking for a pay rise or similar,I would be in agreement with Tunnie tbh (had to happen sometime I suppose) ,but after having watched the union press conference in full yesterday,and listened to the comments o Brown and Mandleson on the subject I am convinced that they are being used as pawns in a political game.
The union leader stated over and over that he wanted to go to ACAS with no preconditions,but the Royal Mail wont go.He also said that in the last couple of days they had been in negotiation with RM managers and had agreement in the room on a settlement ,but the managers had to leave the room to contact more senior people to get the OK.Every time this happened they came back and said "sorry,no deal" and they had to start again from scratch.This is very reminiscent of what happened during the (idiotic) miners strike in the 80,s.Employer and union reached agreement,but the govt.scuppred it.
Brown and Mandelson have been saying publicly that the two sides should go to arbitration,but the union are crying out for arbitration and RM wont  go.Brown and mandelson could tell RM management to go to ACAS,but apparently it hasnt occurred to them to do so.
The union negotiators savaged Mandelson yesterday,continually reffered to him as "the minister without responsibility".
My guess is that Mandelson wants the dispute and he wants it to be as damaging as possible,so that he has the excuse to privatise it on the cheap,probably to one of his billionare crooked mates,who he has quite a few of in his contact list.

[Marks DTM Calib]

To be honest, I dont think Royal Mail should or even needs to be subsidised.

[Andy B]

If this was a simple matter of them striking for a pay rise or similar,I would be in agreement with Tunnie tbh (had to happen sometime I suppose) ,but after having watched the union press conference in full yesterday,and listened to the comments o Brown and Mandleson on the subject I am convinced that they are being used as pawns in a political game.
The union leader stated over and over that he wanted to go to ACAS with no preconditions,but the Royal Mail wont go.He also said that in the last couple of days they had been in negotiation with RM managers and had agreement in the room on a settlement ,but the managers had to leave the room to contact more senior people to get the OK.Every time this happened they came back and said "sorry,no deal" and they had to start again from scratch.This is very reminiscent of what happened during the (idiotic) miners strike in the 80,s.Employer and union reached agreement,but the govt.scuppred it.
Brown and Mandelson have been saying publicly that the two sides should go to arbitration,but the union are crying out for arbitration and RM wont  go.Brown and mandelson could tell RM management to go to ACAS,but apparently it hasnt occurred to them to do so.
The union negotiators savaged Mandelson yesterday,continually reffered to him as "the minister without responsibility".
My guess is that Mandelson wants the dispute and he wants it to be as damaging as possible,so that he has the excuse to privatise it on the cheap,probably to one of his billionare crooked mates,who he has quite a few of in his contact list.

Very very well put!       

[albitz]

I do not like the word "strike"...........it implies that most people on"strike"...............are a bunch of lazy.......selfish......greedy.....breakless ......left wing trouble makers......NOT TRUE.
I much prefer the expression "withdrawl of labour"....
EVERYBODY DOES/OR SHOULD HAVE .......the right to withdraw their labour if they feel that they are being unfairly treated....by their employers.
It is action usually taken as a last resort......most people would rather not withdraw their labour.....but sometimes .....it is necessary .....sadly. :-/ :-/ :-/

I agree that workers have the right to withdraw labour in a free country,I also believe that in most circumstances,that in this country of staggeringly high taxation that anyone who takes action which will involve me the taxpayer having to donate more money to their wages or pension funds should be sacked on the spot.BUT,I think this dispute is different,it isnt that simple.The union claim very passionately that they are trying to stop management from taking a suicidal course which will run the service into the ground (the dark hand of Mandelson again?)and that the "modernisation" programme is guaranteed to give the country a much worse service than it has at the moment.
I think their claims should be thouroughly and independently investigated,but I dont suppose for one minute they will be,

[Nickbat]

The CWU is one of the old-fashioned militant unions, most of which thankfully died out in the 1980s. It is not really interested in making the Post Office work, it merely opposes anything that "management" suggest (especially if they didn't think of it first!).
 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its quite intersting the spin...

The Unions state that more than 50% voted to strike (thier words, not mine).

The actual fact is that less then a third of the members voted to strike.....but just over half who bothered to vote did (i.e. only 2/3rds voted!)

Lies, dam lies and statistics!

The unions say that postal deliveries will get later - well they are already well after 9.00 so what odds does that make to most people (other than maybe buisnesses)

The unions say that the collections will change, well they are already once a day excluding Sudnays so what odds will that make.

[albitz]

They also say that the changes already made - like cancelling the 2nd delivery - was done by management and not them.Im no great supporter of them,quite the opposite most of the time ,but I do belive that it is a political game of chess rather than a simple case of striking for more money.And ideally a genuine investigation of the grieviances to cut through the spin and bullshit should be carried out.I would imagine that Mandelson and Brown would come out of it as the villians - shock horror,who would have thought it.

[Banjax]

The CWU is one of the old-fashioned militant unions, most of which thankfully died out in the 1980s. It is not really interested in making the Post Office work, it merely opposes anything that "management" suggest (especially if they didn't think of it first!).
 

some peoples views on this subject today have surprised me, thankfully Nickbat - yours haven't 

[Banjax]

Its quite intersting the spin...

The Unions state that more than 50% voted to strike (thier words, not mine).

The actual fact is that less then a third of the members voted to strike.....but just over half who bothered to vote did (i.e. only 2/3rds voted!)

Lies, dam lies and statistics!

The unions say that postal deliveries will get later - well they are already well after 9.00 so what odds does that make to most people (other than maybe buisnesses)

The unions say that the collections will change, well they are already once a day excluding Sudnays so what odds will that make.

if they felt so strongly about not striking they'd have voted accordingly, surely 

not voting is also expressing an opinion

[Martin_1962]

Daughters not pleased, she had to be up at silly oclock to police the Skiver line

Line corrected

There are so many people out of work due to the recession and so many on part time that people in this position feel insulted by the skiving workers.

[albitz]

A very similar result to every general election.

[Varche]

Things could be worse.

You could have the Spanish postal system. Infrequent collections from boxes in rural areas and deliveries (to a central point ) in villages once or twice a week tops. Some weeks none at all.

Posting boxes 4 or 5 for a town.

In answer to an earlier posting. Yes some countries do have "community work" for the unemployed as a condition of getting support. It happens in Spain. e.g. Women take elderly people out for walks, get their shopping or accompnay them to the doctors. Men build walls, parks etc for the village. Men and women clear ditches. Can't see that happening in Britain somehow.

As for the postal strike. I think Albs hit the nail on the head. It is political.

At least when it is all slimmed down and uber efficient and people have been been made redundant, some will be able to get a job with TNT or whoever ( on less money of course). The rest can claim dole paid for by the taxes of the few actually working. Working to live or living to work?

Varche