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[trainastock]

when will people wake up , this country is run on benifits and coffee shops , there is no industray to speak off , what have our youth got to look forward to when i left school had a very wide choice of jobs to do , now when they leve uni with there media studys degree , coffee shops !!!
we need to stop inporting , and start making stuff again  give people back there pride .   
the cuts when they come are going to be bad you  need to make your mind up what you are going to do ,protest or lay down  and watch  the bankers etc  get richer 

[albitz]

The cuts are necassary, the country needs them and quick, why would you want to protest against them ? should we keep living on money that we dont have until the country is completely bankrupt ? :-/

[trainastock]

taxes going up , petrol going up,  i go to work pay my dues , now have to wait for the next kick in the groin by people paid a dam site more than me , why should i be made to pay and suffer for something i had no control over   

[Dishevelled Den]

Can't happen - the unions have no power in the UK anymore - we're run by banks, for banks as the financial sector accounts for 25% of our economy - remember when Britain made things? - I do 

Yes ....I believe at one time BJ.....Great Britain used to manufacture the odd thing or two........and then came Thatcher....

I agree with John McDonnell....except I wouldn't apologise 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10263076.stm

Oh come on you two, do you not remember the government we had before M Thatcher ?

I would not like to return to those days at all.

Agreed. The Labour govt before Thatcher had got the country into the most terrible mess.The country was bankrupt and was being run by the unions.Thatcher wasnt single handedly responsible for the ruination of British manufacturing, that job had been diligently carried out for quite a few years already by weak short sighted management,ludicrous unions who wanted to overthrow capitalism rather than represent their members and Labour politicians who couldnt stand up to the unions because they were bankrolling the party.
Arrogant managers are often let off the hook when post mortems are carried out on British industry, but they ignored the japanese competition, first with motorcycles, then cars, then everything else. They thought they could rely on Bitish consumers buying British even if the design and build quality was crap and the price uncompetitive, they assumed wrong.
Thatcher was undoubtedly responsible for unplugging the life support machine and screwing down the lid on the coffin, and personally I could never forgive her for the fact that she took a lot of pleasure in doing so.British industry needed to change drastically and curbing the unions was the start of the process, it seems to me that she did that and thought that the job was done. If she had been able to take a more forward thinking approach she might have foreseen that the country needed a strong manuacturing base to rise from the ashes after the battles had been fought and won.If this had happened we wouldnt be so reliant on the financial sector as we are now and the economy would be much more balanced and stable imo.

You do indeed hail from the wise and chosen, my nephew 8-)

[albitz]

taxes going up , petrol going up,  i go to work pay my dues , now have to wait for the next kick in the groin by people paid a dam site more than me , why should i be made to pay and suffer for something i had no control over   

I fully sympathise,Im in the same position, but the fact is the country is very heavily in debt and needs to pay it back.

[trainastock]

cant we stop paying our membership fee  to the eu  for a couple of years  save a few quid there

[Dishevelled Den]

when will people wake up , this country is run on benifits and coffee shops , there is no industray to speak off , what have our youth got to look forward to when i left school had a very wide choice of jobs to do , now when they leve uni with there media studys degree , coffee shops !!!
we need to stop inporting , and start making stuff again  give people back there pride .   
the cuts when they come are going to be bad you  need to make your mind up what you are going to do ,protest or lay down  and watch  the bankers etc  get richer 

the cuts when they come are going to be bad you  need to make your mind up what you are going to do ,protest or lay down  and watch  the bankers etc  get richer

This is understandable emotion T but ill-conceived rhetoric as mass protest – if that’s what you advocate – is, for the most part, impossible to control. 

The notion that any problem - let alone the one we presently face as a nation - can be successfully addressed by the use of force and uprising/organised protest/civil disobedience is fatally flawed.

We need strong government and a will to once again consider the nation before self.  Together (as a nation) we should stand rather than fall as divided groups out for their own insular and short-sighted goals.

[Dishevelled Den]

Plenty on the BBC today about the General Strike here in Spain over the so called austerity measures introduced by our Labour government to try and prop up the economy along with unemployment at 20% (29% where we live).

We probably won't actually notice the difference. After all the difference between a public servant working normally and out on strike is minute. Some civil servants have openly said that if when get paid 5% less they will do 5% less work!!

The question I would ask is will there be a similar strike in Britain after the Condems introduce their austerity measures in two weeks time? Personally I think there will be a good chance when you look at the BA strike. Lots of people cannot manage on what they earn now.

On the plus side Omegas might plummet even more in price!

The idea that any group emerging to lead the nation in concert towards a common goal fails to gain traction with me V.

This is a fractured country thanks to years of self-indulgence, cheap money, soap-operas, reality television, august publications such as Hello magazine, celebrity culture, laziness, rank stupidity, poor parenting, political meddling and social engineering on a grand scale.

We have forgotten who we are – not only as a nation, but in many cases as individuals.

[trainastock]

what about  the poll tax riots , all i am  saying is that a one off strike and protest march  to show the gov that we will not be walked over and to treat us with some respect

[Dishevelled Den]

what about  the poll tax riots , all i am  saying is that a one off strike and protest march  to show the gov that we will not be walked over and to treat us with some respect

.... This is a case in point T. I would suggest that these riots (along with the protests over pit closures) are where the compact between the police and public was lost on a general basis.


The poll-tax protests didn't solve much in the end as we've ended up with the rather unsatisfactory council tax.

[trainastock]

 Re:  this is a fractured country thanks to years of self-indulgence, cheap money, soap-operas, reality television, august publications such as Hello magazine, celebrity culture, laziness, rank stupidity, poor parenting, political meddling and social engineering on a grand scale.

We have forgotten who we are – not only as a nation, but in many cases as individuals.
 
excellant  well said   zulu77 

[albitz]

cant we stop paying our membership fee  to the eu  for a couple of years  save a few quid there

Now your talking mate, although I would advocate witholding on a permanent basis.
Those who would have had us join up completely to that unexclusive club - including adopting its currency-would have left us in a position where we would currently be in the same position a Greece. Completely insolvent and having to ask Ms Merkels permission to buy some loo rolls for the treasury etc.

[MikeDundee]

I work in the public sector, past 16 yrs now, and have went through several re-organisations namely 3 in the past 5 yrs. Another two yrs same thing will happen again, next time I might not be so lucky. As already said the new government blaming everything on the public sector thriving whilst private sector declines ...complete and utter rubbish ...the last government bailed out the private sector namely banks, and who pays for that....UK taypayers.


The new goverment will try to go down the privitasation route, same as the last tory government. However, doing this in the public sector for certain services is not that straight forward and has to be agreed by local tenants associations at tenants council meetings, which includes councillors.

the new government is not any better than the last one, placing blame, but hey ...did'nt we already know that ... and yes the new government has made a big impact on exchange rates aswell :-/

[albitz]

Time will tell wether the new govt. is any good or not. I do have my doubts tbh. Never been a big fan of DC and I think Clegg is a tw*t.
They are however correct in their assertion that the public sector cant flourish while the pirvate sector is in retreat.If the private sector isnt providing the revenue to finance the public sector then the only other option is to borrow the money. Previous lot more than maxed the credit card so that cant (and shouldnt)happen.
The previous lot also added approx.650,000 extra employees to the govt. payroll which is unsustainable even with a healthy economy.
As for bailing out the banks, the  points of argument have been covered many times on here, not going to open that can of worms again, but it was a once in a century occurence and the govts around the world had little option - global financial collapse was almost inevitable,globalisation does have its many drawbacks.

[HolyCount]

I can see a general public sector strike on the cards. Not because of cuts per se, but because the bankers have still got their bonus payments, MP's have still got a grand a year rise, while freezing public sector wages and outgoing MP's still get a £60k pay off, while the lowest paid still get shafted!!

Sorry, HC, but "public sector" does not equate to "lowest paid", IMHO.

The private sector has far less job security, often less pension rights....and, more crucially, are often poorer paid these days .
 

Civil service has "lost" 100,000 jobs over the last three years --- more going (no job security). The VAST majority of civil servants earn less than £15k per annum, with a pension iro £6k per annum (for which they pay 3% of wages).

Top 10% earn probably 75% of the wage bill !!!!

However, crucially, I was not equating Public Sector to lowest paid!  Read the post again.

I take your point, HC, but:

 
"The Office for National Statistics calculates that public sector workers are now paid, on average, £23,648 a year — £1,200 more a year than their private sector counterparts.

The earnings of people employed by the state grew by an average of 2.3 per cent a year between 2001 and 2005, compared with growth of around 1.5 per cent for those employed by private firms. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7541821/Public-sector-pay-packages-increase-at-double-rate-of-private-sector-IFS-says.html

Nick -- I am disappointed to see you quoting "averages"... you are an intelligent man ---- far too bright to fall for "average stats" !!

In my office are 8 workers: 3 earn 12k, 3 earn 20k and 2 earn 16K --- (none near "average" quoted in the media) .... anyway -- their average wage is therefore £16k.

All well and good ---- add in the two managers on 40 & 50 k .... whay-hay ... we've all had a pay rise !!!!

The average is now £nearly 22k