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[steve_daly]

Bearing in mind that the full facts of this matter remain to be disclosed, this is a classic indication of how many – but not all - beat and patrol officers seem to think at the moment.

Traditional methods have given way in many cases to this confrontational 'balls out' approach brought about by society's changing attitude and intolerant behaviour towards most forms of authority (the police in particular).

This incident appears to be one where the officers concerned acted excessively in circumstances where a more considered approach would have been appropriate.

Its part of the vicious circle where the police get aggro (not necessarily from this driver) so they respond in kind: a very dangerous precedent to adopt, for without the cooperation of the public, policing becomes very difficult indeed.

I'm dismayed that the police, in general, appear to have failed to resist the political interference practiced by recent government (particularly that of the last Labour administration) this, to a certain extent, has eroded the traditional role of the constabulary.

In a world where the ‘security on the nation’ from terrorist attack seems to have been given precedence – in terms of the application of police power -  to the combating of crime by a professional police force acting  proportionally within the law, inexcusable incidents such as the one in question will continue to happen.

And perhaps when they pull him over for the second time he has had time to reach under his seat for a gun? Or perhaps drive off again into a bus stop full of children...

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

[Dishevelled Den]

Bearing in mind that the full facts of this matter remain to be disclosed, this is a classic indication of how many – but not all - beat and patrol officers seem to think at the moment.

Traditional methods have given way in many cases to this confrontational 'balls out' approach brought about by society's changing attitude and intolerant behaviour towards most forms of authority (the police in particular).

This incident appears to be one where the officers concerned acted excessively in circumstances where a more considered approach would have been appropriate.

Its part of the vicious circle where the police get aggro (not necessarily from this driver) so they respond in kind: a very dangerous precedent to adopt, for without the cooperation of the public, policing becomes very difficult indeed.

I'm dismayed that the police, in general, appear to have failed to resist the political interference practiced by recent government (particularly that of the last Labour administration) this, to a certain extent, has eroded the traditional role of the constabulary.

In a world where the ‘security on the nation’ from terrorist attack seems to have been given precedence – in terms of the application of police power -  to the combating of crime by a professional police force acting  proportionally within the law, inexcusable incidents such as the one in question will continue to happen.

And perhaps when they pull him over for the second time he has had time to reach under his seat for a gun? Or perhaps drive off again into a bus stop full of children...

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

I'm afraid you would find yourself in some difficulty there Rufus if, as a member of the police force, you used that as a maxim when dealing with incidents of this nature.

Then, of course, my 39 years service to the state in various guises, and in some very difficult areas, has perhaps imbued me with some measure of proportion and open-mindedness.

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

In that case Rufus I hope that you would be prepared to take the medicine without complaint if, perchance, you should ever make a mistake with, or misunderstand the instructions of, similarly motivated officers.

[Turk]

silly old duffer, but as mentioned, anyone could have been in that car. Smashing windows is standard shock & awe tactics, which are proven to work.

and jumping up and gown on the bonnet. 

Doubt you'll find that one in the tactical handbook. 
If it is there, it'll be in the 'How to display gross stupidity' section.

[steve_daly]

Bearing in mind that the full facts of this matter remain to be disclosed, this is a classic indication of how many – but not all - beat and patrol officers seem to think at the moment.

Traditional methods have given way in many cases to this confrontational 'balls out' approach brought about by society's changing attitude and intolerant behaviour towards most forms of authority (the police in particular).

This incident appears to be one where the officers concerned acted excessively in circumstances where a more considered approach would have been appropriate.

Its part of the vicious circle where the police get aggro (not necessarily from this driver) so they respond in kind: a very dangerous precedent to adopt, for without the cooperation of the public, policing becomes very difficult indeed.

I'm dismayed that the police, in general, appear to have failed to resist the political interference practiced by recent government (particularly that of the last Labour administration) this, to a certain extent, has eroded the traditional role of the constabulary.

In a world where the ‘security on the nation’ from terrorist attack seems to have been given precedence – in terms of the application of police power -  to the combating of crime by a professional police force acting  proportionally within the law, inexcusable incidents such as the one in question will continue to happen.

And perhaps when they pull him over for the second time he has had time to reach under his seat for a gun? Or perhaps drive off again into a bus stop full of children...

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

I'm afraid you would find yourself in some difficulty there Rufus if, as a member of the police force, you used that as a maxim when dealing with incidents of this nature.

Then, of course, my 39 years service to the state in various guises, and in some very difficult areas, has perhaps imbued me with some measure of proportion and open-mindedness.

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

In that case Rufus I hope that you would be prepared to take the medicine without complaint if, perchance, you should ever make a mistake with, or misunderstand the instructions of, similarly motivated officers.

Generally, people don't tend to run if they have nothing to hide. If you fail to understand why you are being stopped, or don't understand that all your getting is a simple ticket for not wearing a seatbelt, then perhaps you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

The point is he made off and got stopped before he could hurt himself or others. Maybe the officers in question were a little over zealous, but they got the job done.

I fully support their actions

Would I like to be on the receiving end? Well no of course not, but then I don't try and make off if I get pulled over. Should I one day decide to chance my luck, then I would like to think that there is someone there protecting others from my actions.

[Turk]

Bearing in mind that the full facts of this matter remain to be disclosed, this is a classic indication of how many – but not all - beat and patrol officers seem to think at the moment.

Traditional methods have given way in many cases to this confrontational 'balls out' approach brought about by society's changing attitude and intolerant behaviour towards most forms of authority (the police in particular).

This incident appears to be one where the officers concerned acted excessively in circumstances where a more considered approach would have been appropriate.

Its part of the vicious circle where the police get aggro (not necessarily from this driver) so they respond in kind: a very dangerous precedent to adopt, for without the cooperation of the public, policing becomes very difficult indeed.

I'm dismayed that the police, in general, appear to have failed to resist the political interference practiced by recent government (particularly that of the last Labour administration) this, to a certain extent, has eroded the traditional role of the constabulary.

In a world where the ‘security on the nation’ from terrorist attack seems to have been given precedence – in terms of the application of police power -  to the combating of crime by a professional police force acting  proportionally within the law, inexcusable incidents such as the one in question will continue to happen.

And perhaps when they pull him over for the second time he has had time to reach under his seat for a gun? Or perhaps drive off again into a bus stop full of children...

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

I'm afraid you would find yourself in some difficulty there Rufus if, as a member of the police force, you used that as a maxim when dealing with incidents of this nature.

Then, of course, my 39 years service to the state in various guises, and in some very difficult areas, has perhaps imbued me with some measure of proportion and open-mindedness.

Personally I'd rather the shock tactics.

In that case Rufus I hope that you would be prepared to take the medicine without complaint if, perchance, you should ever make a mistake with, or misunderstand the instructions of, similarly motivated officers.

Generally, people don't tend to run if they have nothing to hide. If you fail to understand why you are being stopped, or don't understand that all your getting is a simple ticket for not wearing a seatbelt, then perhaps you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

The point is he made off and got stopped before he could hurt himself or others. Maybe the officers in question were a little over zealous, but they got the job done.

I fully support their actions

Would I like to be on the receiving end? Well no of course not, but then I don't try and make off if I get pulled over. Should I one day decide to chance my luck, then I would like to think that there is someone there protecting others from my actions.

Yeah, right. 

[Vamps]

Bit like the bunch of ***** on here.....yes HOTEL YOU LADDY.

What is this all about, have I missed something.. :question

[Kevin Wood]

not quite sure thats called for.#19

there are two sides to every story.

finding the truth and learning from the episode is the way forward.

I'm sure it's not. Offensive posts removed.

Kevin

[Amigo]

£60 odd grands worth of Rangie could be driven by a harmless, if a little addle pated old chap or an old school Kray style villain both getting on a bit.
    Could be many of us on here?!!!!!!!

[Debs.]

.....Offensive posts removed.....Kevin

Thankyou Kevin.

[TheBoy]

Blimey, its a BBC news story, which is often not quite the truth.  Who knows what the truth truely is?  Maybe the police were out of order. Maybe, whilst trying to give him a ticket, the old boy stuck up 2 and drove off. We simply don't know. Until we do, we can't go "frying tonight" or whatever that member posted.

Vigilantes who think that all police should be burned are the ones with the chip on their shoulder. Please do not confuse the arrogant tosspots on the road wars type programmes with real police.

I work for a large corporation (probably 300,000 employees), and within that, there are obviously some idiots, but the vast majority are decent people.  Before that, I worked at BT, another large firm, and the same applies, the huge majority of the people I worked with were good, honest, trustworthy people.  In any large organisation, there will be the occasional bad egg.


Sadly, I've had a fair number of dealings with not just traffic police , but even brave beat coppers, brave stupid enough to step out in front of me to stop me. In nearly all cases, I have found them to be reasonable people, and I've always driven off with just a telling off, remembering if it had got into an argument, seeing as I was often in the wrong when pulled, I would have lost. Only ever come across one arrogant one, a hobby bobby moaning about my parking caliming I was on double yellows, where I wasn't.


"treat others as you want to be treated yourself"

[Dishevelled Den]

Generally, people don't tend to run if they have nothing to hide. If you fail to understand why you are being stopped, or don't understand that all your getting is a simple ticket for not wearing a seatbelt, then perhaps you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

The point is he made off and got stopped before he could hurt himself or others. Maybe the officers in question were a little over zealous, but they got the job done.

I fully support their actions

Would I like to be on the receiving end? Well no of course not, but then I don't try and make off if I get pulled over. Should I one day decide to chance my luck, then I would like to think that there is someone there protecting others from my actions.

then perhaps you shouldn't be driving in the first place

That’s a reasonable enough statement Rufus and one that may hold greater resonance given the increasing number of elderly drivers using the roads.

Leaving aside the potential (practical) consequences of having more and more of these drivers on the road, we have to look at this incident in isolation - causational factors are irrelevant to a large extent - as it's the actions displayed by these police officers that are in question.

Every police officer should approach any given situation with an open, enquiring mind - failure to do so can lead to confusion and inappropriate action being taken, as we have seen here.

I'm well aware that apparently old and frail people can present a very real problem - I've dealt with a few in my time - but that realisation has not prejudiced my view of elderly people as a whole or, by extension, any other group within society.

This is why ‘brain before motor function’ is the only way forward when dealing with any incident that requires official intervention.

Maybe the officers in question were a little over zealous, but they got the job done.

Perhaps, but at what cost to their integrity and public confidence?

Would I like to be on the receiving end? Well no of course not, but then I don't try and make off if I get pulled over

I'm assuming of course that you're in full possession of you're faculties and possess the mental acuity to fully understand what's happening in your immediate environment, so unless there was a specific reason for doing so you wouldn't be faced with these choices.

then I would like to think that there is someone there protecting others from my actions.

There are Rufus but they should understand that their actions must be governed by the Warrant they hold and the law of the land.

If you feel that the representatives of law and order should be given such freedom to act in this manner then you should be wary, as one day you may encounter a situation that might well suggest otherwise.

[TheBoy]

Sadly, in true BBC style, the clip might not show the start of the incident - where he was given the ticket? That might have happened 2m back, possibly even before police got to the car to speak? So, treated like a crimanl when he drove/sped off?

[Dishevelled Den]

Sadly, in true BBC style, the clip might not show the start of the incident - where he was given the ticket? That might have happened 2m back, possibly even before police got to the car to speak? So, treated like a crimanl when he drove/sped off?

treated like a crimanl when he drove/sped off

Yep that's entirely possible; at the point of the drive off they would have been aware that they were dealing with an elderly motorist so the question of how they would make the next move (in a sensible proportionate way) should have been uppermost in their minds.

I've been in countless situations where the actions taken by officialdom have been construed in a particular way because those commenting on the incident were doing so after the fact and not in full possession of all relevant data, so I'm mindful of how actions such as those displayed in this matter are likely to be perceived.

In the end it will always be a judgement call made by those dealing with the situation, in this case I have a feeling that the wrong call was made - but my own experience and temperament allows me to form that opinion.  These officers were obviously motivated by different criteria.

Policing is a very difficult job to get right - when done proportionally and with good sense, few members of the public are immediately aware of it but when the shit hits the fan after mistakes are made, the end result is all too obvious.

The nett result is that many members of the public lose confidence in the police often times dictating a response to perceived oppression that sets a vicious circle in motion when the police respond in kind.

The law must be enforced but to maintain some semblance of normality in society this must be done with fairness, determination, professionalism and above all, good sense.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Just what would George Dixon think?.....   

[Debs.]

Just what would George Dixon think?.....   

Evenin`all!