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[Banjax]

If we had the same level of fatal shootings per capita as the US we'd have 800 a year.......the US's closest neighbour, Canada has a widespread gun culture too yet has nothing like the gun crime the States has, New Zealand, Russia, Norway have very lax gun control and there isn't the same rate either, nor Switzerland where every able-bodied man is required by law to have a gun.

What is it in the American psyche that causes this massively high rate of gun crime? Other countries seem to manage without shooting each other in the face for no apparent reason.

Or is it just that any Tom, Dick or Harry can wander into Woolies and buy a gun and ammo with no checks as its deemed a right to bear arms?

Americans must be getting the message slowly but surely that for whatever reason, they just can't be trusted with little or no gun control. Thats a fact, unfortunately its laughingly seen as being un-American to be for gun control.....utter madness. Continue to let mentally unstable psychos own semi-automatic weapons and we'll see how that goes, fingers crossed eh? 

[Nickbat]

I understand that the assailant was a drug user, which doesn't help. But, either way the US has a long history of such incidents.  I shamelessly stole this from elsewhere (OK, from here, actually: http://raedwald.blogspot.com/2011/01/twitter-didnt-shoot-gabby-giffords-nor.html )

After Lincoln's assassination in 1865, Americans went on to kill 24 of their political officials by 1877, including a senator, two congressmen, three state governors, ten state legislators and eight judges. It was only after President Garfield's assassination in 1881 that this wave of political violence began to subside. More recently from the '60s to early '80s four out of six presidents were targeted by assassins, one successfully and one almost so. And not only Robert Kennedy but George Rockwell, John Lennon, Malcolm X, Medgar Evans and Martin Luther King all met their ends at the assassin's hands.

I expect it will continue and restrictive gun laws would make little difference. They haven't exactly stopped gun crime in the UK have they? If someone is hell-bent on causing mayhem with a shooter, they will. Law or no law.

Ironically, Congresswoman Gifford was not a proponent of gun laws.

[Banjax]

great link - and it makes a good point about priorities and perspective 


the UK doesn't have anything like the level of gun crime per capita that they have in the states tho Nick - its really quite difficult to get hold of a handgun in this country - unless you're a vet you'd have to jump through a lot of hoops - of course you could buy off the black market, but either way its a lot of expense and hassle - as opposed to walking into a shop and handing cash over in the states 

we have had incidents - Dunblane, Hungerford etc in this country but thankfully they're few and far between - in the states it appears to be a weekly occurence almost 

[Andy B]

...- as opposed to walking into a shop and handing cash over in the states  ......

I'm sure that not all states are like that. While in Florida a few years ago it was very strange for us to see a whole load of different fire arms for sale in the local Wall Mart, but I don't believe I could have put one in my trolly with the rest of our shopping.  :-/

[Banjax]

...- as opposed to walking into a shop and handing cash over in the states  ......

I'm sure that not all states are like that. While in Florida a few years ago it was very strange for us to see a whole load of different fire arms for sale in the local Wall Mart, but I don't believe I could have put one in my trolly with the rest of our shopping.  :-/

Arizona has no gun control - i don't think you even need a license - but some states NY, California, Illinois have much stricter laws but generally its fairly easy to get a gun - just pop to another state if theres a problem, you may have to wait a few days for ammo in some cases but its fairly easy   

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The United States of America was born out of the gun, to defend / attack the native Americans, to gain Independence from the British, to give personal protection to the individual white American as a right to protect their family and property.

No matter what the modern world teaches the USA, the fact is the American Constitution is near enough "set in stone", unlike the British unwritten constitution which can be amended at any time by due legal process, with Amendment 2 the key issue:


[size=18]The United States Constitution[/size]

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Definition of  Infringe
infringe vb [Latin infringere] 1: violate, transgress 2: encroach, trespass Source: NMW

In the context of the Constitution, phrases like "shall not be infringed," "shall make no law," and "shall not be violated" sound pretty unbendable, but the Supreme Court has ruled that some laws can, in fact, encroach on these phrases. For example, though there is freedom of speech, you cannot slander someone; though you can own a pistol, you cannot own a nuclear weapon.

This crucial piece of American Law will never easily be changed without all political leaders in agreement to do so, which will take a very long time indeed to be amended, if ever!

 

[cem_devecioglu]

America is a crowded place and needs to control population

[Lizzie_Zoom]

America is a crowded place and needs to control population

Not as crowded as Great Britain Cem!!

[cem_devecioglu]

seriously, civilization is not equal to technology and power..  its a long and painful path for a country to be civilized.. also which most of my citizens need to learn..

by the way, where did I put my gun

[Banjax]

I think Liz has hit the nail on the head - America as we know it was stolen, fought over, settled and won by the gun by Europeans so its in the countries DNA to carry a weapon - it'd be like outlawing the drinking of tea in Britain.

Americans ironically cling to guns for fear of violence, when its the guns themselves that cause most of it.......thats some catch that catch-22 

[Banjax]

seriously, civilization is not equal to technology and power..  its a long and painful path for a country to be civilized.. also which most of my citizens need to learn..

by the way, where did I put my gun

any country that still has the death penalty - Iran, Iraq, China, Saudi Arabia, Syria, North Korea, Sudan, USA, etc cannot be considered to be civilised in my book regardless of how many people drive expensive german cars in them 

[Richie London]

shootings and violence will increase due to the amount of foreign gangs  setting up over here competeing with british gangs. young kids get more credibilty if they own a gun, ghettos are in places where the police will not go. drugs plays the biggest part in crime for its huge revenue it brings to them. everywhere is becoming territorial now to the gangs. prison is a doddle. its a cushy life inside for most people now.

[Dishevelled Den]

What is it in the American psyche that causes this massively high rate of gun crime? 

Yes, I think that is an important point to consider (aside from the firearms question in general) there seems to have been a strange dichotomy in the socio-economic structure within the US for some considerable time - black/white, native American/white, Hispanic/white etc., have/have-nots, right/left, North/South, dope heads/non-users and so on.

This, to me at least, has provided the ground upon which people have been able to ally their fears or act upon their inclinations or impulse by using firearms either in an offensive or defensive manner. 

The fact that firearms are so readily available (for the most part) simply provides the means by which a people already at war with themselves can take that one further step towards reinforcing their point of view.

It's strange that many in such a sophisticated country can be driven by such base and simplistic motivators.

This particular incident lends little to the suggestion by some of the left-wing press that extreme right-wing politics within the US was partly responsible for this incident - far from it in my view, I think the basic cause is the availability of firearms to an immature population (in the general sense of political/social awareness) more inclined to acting on impulse rather than pragmatism.   

[Kevin Wood]

Yes, I think that is an important point to consider (aside from the firearms question in general) there seems to have been a strange dichotomy in the socio-economic structure within the US for some considerable time - black/white, native American/white, Hispanic/white etc., have/have-nots, right/left, North/South, dope heads/non-users and so on.

Yep, and we are concerned about inequality!

The opposition to Obama's "communist" health service proposals shows that the "Haves" in the U.S. Are keen to keep the status quo, too, IMHO. I.E. If you're in need but you can't pay, tough!

Perhaps this is a symptom of such an "immature" society?

Kevin

[Dishevelled Den]

Yep, and we are concerned about inequality!

The opposition to Obama's "communist" health service proposals shows that the "Haves" in the U.S. Are keen to keep the status quo, too, IMHO. I.E. If you're in need but you can't pay, tough!

Perhaps this is a symptom of such an "immature" society?

Kevin

I would go further and suggest that the US has a fundamentally divided society despite the many suggestions that Americans rally under the Flag in times of trouble.

Barak Obama has been the catalyst for this schism to become more pronounced.  Just after he was elected I said that he held the potential to become one of the most divisive Commander's in Chief of recent times - on the basis of what's happening there since his inauguration I would standby that.