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[Richie London]

come to west drayton or hayes for the african experience. not much wildlife but the crimes here to match 

[Varche]

Muslim Brotherhood perhaps? That would have the West quaking in their Doc Martins.

Good to see the special relationship was there right back in the times of Suez. Like I say, I am hard pressed to think of anything good to come out of the USA.

Well in fairness the USA were bank rolling the UK at the time, and Eden failed to inform the US (and other UK Government ministers!!) that we were getting the Israelis to invade, and the British and French forces to go in to 'stop' the Israelis and liberate Suez!!!  Great plan eh?!!!!    

Was that the Marshall Plan? The thing we only just managed to pay off a couple of years ago?

[Banjax]

we went bankrupt fighting the nazis - so at least it was for a good cause 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Muslim Brotherhood perhaps? That would have the West quaking in their Doc Martins.

Good to see the special relationship was there right back in the times of Suez. Like I say, I am hard pressed to think of anything good to come out of the USA.

Well in fairness the USA were bank rolling the UK at the time, and Eden failed to inform the US (and other UK Government ministers!!) that we were getting the Israelis to invade, and the British and French forces to go in to 'stop' the Israelis and liberate Suez!!!  Great plan eh?!!!!    

Was that the Marshall Plan? The think we only just managed to pay off a couple of years ago?

No Varche, that was the US financed economic plan, named after the Secretary of State General George Marshall for the reconstruction of Western Europe post 1947. Overall it involved American loans of $12,500,000,000.  As for Britain it had come out of WW2 with a debt of £3 billion.  It needed money to reconstruct the country, and buy the food, materials and fuel it required from America. A dollar deficit of $8 billion existed by 1946, and the crisis (and you all think we have a crisis now!!)  of 1947, with terrible weather produced a withdrawal of $175.9 million on the American backed loan over just 5 days, with a further $850 million credits left to draw on IF the Americans didn't block it.  I won't go through all the details here, but I recommend the following book for a full explanation of this particular crisis : Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin (2006)

The Suez economic crisis was something else, with the British Treasury again needing American support to maintain the Sterling rate of exchange, with great international fears about Britain's fragile economy and the effects on it of this latest war. But the actions of Eden put all that in jeopardy as the US was really upset by the whole Suez debacle, and the loan sought was coming with a US guarantee from lenders mostly under US control!!  That is the reason why Eden had to pull every last soldier out of Suez and Britain was thus greatly humiliated.  It is also blamed for not only finally signalling the end of the British Empire, but that of the French as well.  Israel, if they had been trusted before by the Arab nations, was certainly no longer trusted! 

Another good book covering this era, again by the same acclaimed author as before, is: Hennessy, P. Having it So Good Britain In The Fifties Penguin (2007)

Also I recommend: Sandbrook, D. Never Had It So Good Abacus (2005)

 

[Banjax]

thats what i said 

[Dishevelled Den]

No Varche, that was the US financed economic plan, named after the Secretary of State General George Marshall for the reconstruction of Western Europe post 1947. Overall it involved American loans of $12,500,000,000.  As for Britain it had come out of WW2 with a debt of £3 billion.  It needed money to reconstruct the country, and buy the food, materials and fuel it required from America. A dollar deficit of $8 billion existed by 1946, and the crisis (and you all think we have a crisis now!!)  of 1947, with terrible weather produced a withdrawal of $175.9 million on the American backed loan over just 5 days, with a further $850 million credits left to draw on IF the Americans didn't block it.  I won't go through all the details here, but I recommend the following book for a full explanation of this particular crisis : Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin (2006)

The Suez economic crisis was something else, with the British Treasury again needing American support to maintain the Sterling rate of exchange, with great international fears about Britain's fragile economy and the effects on it of this latest war. But the actions of Eden put all that in jeopardy as the US was really upset by the whole Suez debacle, and the loan sought was coming with a US guarantee from lenders mostly under US control!!  That is the reason why Eden had to pull every last soldier out of Suez and Britain was thus greatly humiliated.  It is also blamed for not only finally signalling the end of the British Empire, but that of the French as well.  Israel, if they had been trusted before by the Arab nations, was certainly no longer trusted! 

Another good book covering this era, again by the same acclaimed author as before, is: Hennessy, P. Having it So Good Britain In The Fifties Penguin (2007)

Also I recommend: Sandbrook, D. Never Had It So Good Abacus (2005)

 

You've stirred my interest there Lizzie.

I'm about to get some stuff from Amazon, of the three you mentioned what would I order first for a rounded picture of those circumstances?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

No Varche, that was the US financed economic plan, named after the Secretary of State General George Marshall for the reconstruction of Western Europe post 1947. Overall it involved American loans of $12,500,000,000.  As for Britain it had come out of WW2 with a debt of £3 billion.  It needed money to reconstruct the country, and buy the food, materials and fuel it required from America. A dollar deficit of $8 billion existed by 1946, and the crisis (and you all think we have a crisis now!!)  of 1947, with terrible weather produced a withdrawal of $175.9 million on the American backed loan over just 5 days, with a further $850 million credits left to draw on IF the Americans didn't block it.  I won't go through all the details here, but I recommend the following book for a full explanation of this particular crisis : Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin (2006)

The Suez economic crisis was something else, with the British Treasury again needing American support to maintain the Sterling rate of exchange, with great international fears about Britain's fragile economy and the effects on it of this latest war. But the actions of Eden put all that in jeopardy as the US was really upset by the whole Suez debacle, and the loan sought was coming with a US guarantee from lenders mostly under US control!!  That is the reason why Eden had to pull every last soldier out of Suez and Britain was thus greatly humiliated.  It is also blamed for not only finally signalling the end of the British Empire, but that of the French as well.  Israel, if they had been trusted before by the Arab nations, was certainly no longer trusted! 

Another good book covering this era, again by the same acclaimed author as before, is: Hennessy, P. Having it So Good Britain In The Fifties Penguin (2007)

Also I recommend: Sandbrook, D. Never Had It So Good Abacus (2005)

 

You've stirred my interest there Lizzie.

I'm about to get some stuff from Amazon, of the three you mentioned what would I order first for a rounded picture of those circumstances?

 

Both Hennessy books are best for both topics.

However  Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin (2006) is the best for describing the full implications of the post war financial crisis for Britain, and especially that of the terrible year of 1947.

 Hennessy, P. Having it So Good Britain In The Fifties Penguin (2007) is the best of the two for covering the Suez crisis in particular.

Also for Suez information I would then pick Sandbrook, D. Never Had It So Good Abacus (2005) as it gives another very full account of the whole episode and the aftermath.

Another book that covers the whole background and aftermath of Suez within the total International and general situation covering many aspects for Great Britain from 1951-1970 from the political point of view is: Harrison, B. The New Oxford History Of England: Seeking A Role Oxford University Press (2009)

All are very enjoyable and fully informative reads!  Enjoy ZL!

[Banjax]

those long winter nights will fly by with those page-turners Z 

[Dishevelled Den]

 

Both Hennessy books are best for both topics.

However  Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin (2006) is the best for describing the full implications of the post war financial crisis for Britain, and especially that of the terrible year of 1947.

 Hennessy, P. Having it So Good Britain In The Fifties Penguin (2007) is the best of the two for covering the Suez crisis in particular.

Also for Suez information I would then pick Sandbrook, D. Never Had It So Good Abacus (2005) as it gives another very full account of the whole episode and the aftermath.

Another book that covers the whole background and aftermath of Suez within the total International and general situation covering many aspects for Great Britain from 1951-1970 from the political point of view is: Harrison, B. The New Oxford History Of England: Seeking A Role Oxford University Press (2009)

All are very enjoyable and fully informative reads!  Enjoy ZL!

Good stuff Lizzie, I've kicked off by ordering Having it so good to get me into the mood. 8-)

[Lizzie_Zoom]

 

Both Hennessy books are best for both topics.

However  Hennessy, P. Never Again Britain 1945-51 Penguin (2006) is the best for describing the full implications of the post war financial crisis for Britain, and especially that of the terrible year of 1947.

 Hennessy, P. Having it So Good Britain In The Fifties Penguin (2007) is the best of the two for covering the Suez crisis in particular.

Also for Suez information I would then pick Sandbrook, D. Never Had It So Good Abacus (2005) as it gives another very full account of the whole episode and the aftermath.

Another book that covers the whole background and aftermath of Suez within the total International and general situation covering many aspects for Great Britain from 1951-1970 from the political point of view is: Harrison, B. The New Oxford History Of England: Seeking A Role Oxford University Press (2009)

All are very enjoyable and fully informative reads!  Enjoy ZL!

Good stuff Lizzie, I've kicked off by ordering Having it so good to get me into the mood. 8-)

 

[Dishevelled Den]

those long winter nights will fly by with those page-turners Z 

Yes BJ beside being inspired by Lizzie to look again at some recent history I really feel the need to try to understand a bit more of this particular crisis and how a different outcome may well have altered the region as it presently sits.

I love the tactile experience of actually holding a book although I'm flirting with the idea of a Kindle - but would really need to see one in operation before spending the money.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If you want to go deeper into the Suez crisis ZL I would highly recommend the account within pp. 394-447 of : Horne, A. Macmillan 1894 - 1956 Vol.1 Macmillan (1998)

This gives a wonderful insight into Eden's inner circle including the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Macmillan,  and his shamefull involvement by way of The Macmillan Scheme, with even diary entries being deliberately destroyed!  Wonderful stuff!

[Dishevelled Den]

If you want to go deeper into the Suez crisis ZL I would highly recommend the account within pp. 394-447 of : Horne, A. Macmillan 1894 - 1956 Vol.1 Macmillan (1998)

This gives a wonderful insight into Eden's inner circle including the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Macmillan,  and his shamefull involvement by way of The Macmillan Scheme, with even diary entries being deliberately destroyed!  Wonderful stuff!

Yes the more I think about this Lizzie the more I see this as a fundamental point in this country's post -war realisation that the international scene had changed to such an extent it rendered our perceived closeness to the USA and faith in our military prowess to be questionable.

Perhaps this was a classic case of politics red, in tooth and claw?

[Nickbat]

For too long, many nations, including the US, have tolerated, even excused, oppression in the Middle East in the name of stability. Oppression has become common, but stability has never arrived. We must take a different approach.

We must help the reformers of the Middle East as they work for freedom, and strive to build a community of peaceful, democratic nations.

[tunnie]

For too long, many nations, including the US, have tolerated, even excused, oppression in the Middle East in the name of stability. Oppression has become common, but stability has never arrived. We must take a different approach.

We must help the reformers of the Middle East as they work for freedom, and strive to build a community of peaceful, democratic nations.

Nothing to do with that, there is just no oil there we need 

If there was we would be there in double quick time!