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Author Topic: Serious earthquake in Japan  (Read 10202 times)

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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #120 on: 16 March 2011, 13:19:47 »

"While France urged its nationals in Tokyo to leave the country or move south, the UK has said there is no need for Britons to evacuate areas outside the current exclusion zone"


 ;D

I'm sure Lizzie you will drink your tea calmly when the nearby nuclear power plant explodes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Mysteryman

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #121 on: 16 March 2011, 13:20:56 »

Quote
"While France urged its nationals in Tokyo to leave the country or move south, the UK has said there is no need for Britons to evacuate areas outside the current exclusion zone"


 ;D

I'm sure Lizzie you will drink your tea calmly when the nearby nuclear power plant explodes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y


It will re-heat itself in the cup right in front of you. ;D
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #122 on: 16 March 2011, 14:15:03 »

Quote
"While France urged its nationals in Tokyo to leave the country or move south, the UK has said there is no need for Britons to evacuate areas outside the current exclusion zone"


 ;D

I'm sure Lizzie you will drink your tea calmly when the nearby nuclear power plant explodes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y


Yes, I probably would in true British tradition!! :D :D :D ;)  That is what "we" do when it is pointless panicking and there is little you can do about a given situation 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

I always said during the cold war, and my family all agreed, if the bombs started to drop we would just pray for a quick end! :y :y

But the fact is Cem, according to nuclear experts talking here, there is no chance of some form of massive atomic explosion in Japan.  Yes any fallout is worrying, and that could still reach "dangerous" levels, but there will be no atomic bomb going off ;) ;) ;)

So relax Cem, join the British in having a nice cup of tea!  We have no-where to run to, so we do not run! :D :D :D ;)
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #123 on: 16 March 2011, 14:26:05 »

..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean!  Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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Debs.

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #124 on: 16 March 2011, 14:51:04 »

Quote
..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean!  Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)

 ;D...... :y

We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.
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pscocoa

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #125 on: 16 March 2011, 14:56:07 »

Some facts and background information :

[1] In Chernobyl, the nuclear reaction was left to operate at 100% of capacity after a failure, relied on a graphite control rod design from 1942 which is not used any more, and did not house the reactor inside a containment vessel.  In Fukushima, immediate steps were taken to bring the reaction under control.  Sometime in between the earthquake and the tsunami (perhaps only 90 seconds after the earthquake), sensors automatically injected control rods filled with boron into the reactor vessel, immediately reducing the power of the nuclear reaction to roughly 3% of its original level.  Furthermore, the Fukushima reactor vessels are housed inside concrete containment units.

[2] What remains is the challenge of bringing the residual 3% reaction under control.  Given the power of nuclear energy, even at 3% of its original level, it needs to be cooled further.  Japan appears to have suffered a considerable failure regarding back-up generators needed to both circulate cooling water through the containment units, and ventilate the buildings of hydrogen build-up.  Where does the hydrogen come from?  Vaporized water converts to very high volumes of steam, which at high temperatures can separate back into hydrogen and oxygen.    Hydrogen is highly combustible, even at only 2% concentrations.

[3] The failure of the diesel generators, are primarily a result of the tsunami washing away their fuel storage tanks, rather than from flooding which disabled the generators themselves.  At most US nuclear plants, diesel fuel storage tanks are either buried underground, or located within a structure designed to handle an earthquake or flood.  In Japan this appears not to be the case; they were above ground, adjacent to the beach, and not well protected.  It is amazing to think that inland US nuclear power plants are more flood-proof than their Japanese counterparts.  With the failure of the electrical systems, hydrogen has not been venting, and appears to have resulted in the explosions at 3 buildings.  In one building, an explosion/fire may have damaged the concrete containment unit, or the concrete “suppression chamber” which helps reduce pressure/heat from the reactor.

[4] The critical objective is to inject water inside the containment unit (which houses the reactor vessel).  While exposure of uranium/plutonium rods to air inside the reactor vessel increases the risk that the rods melt, as long as the reactor vessel is not breached and sufficient water is available, the process can eventually be cooled.  The next 72 hours are critical.

[5] As for nuclear power more broadly, when the book is written, the failure of the Fukushima systems design will play as prominent a role as the earthquake and tsunami itself.  There is no question that one of the 5 most powerful earthquakes on record (which forced the North American tectonic plate eastward by 66 feet), combined with 6-meter tsunami waves, creates a terrifying and formidable obstacle for energy facilities.  But considering how well facilities whose backup power did not fail are doing, design flaws regarding fuel storage tanks (and perhaps very basic ones) are likely to be part of the aftermath.  The chart shows how Japan’s nuclear efficiency (measured by its capacity factor) is among the lowest in the world.  This may be a partial indication of Japan’s design, maintenance and engineering inadequacies compared to other countries, which use different models, electrical system redundancies and protocols.

What now for Japan?
``What has so often excited wonder, is the great rapidity with which countries recover from a state of devastation, the disappearance in a short time, of all traces of mischief done by earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and the ravages of war.  An enemy lays waste a country by fire and sword, and destroys or carries away nearly all the moveable wealth existing in it: all the inhabitants are ruined, and yet in a few years after, everything is much as it was before.”

John Stuart Mill, Principles of Political Economy, 1848
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #126 on: 16 March 2011, 15:20:03 »

Quote
Quote
..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean!  Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)

 ;D...... :y

We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y :y
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #127 on: 16 March 2011, 15:26:11 »

Quote
Some facts and background information :

[1] In Chernobyl, the nuclear reaction was left to operate at 100% of capacity after a failure, relied on a graphite control rod design from 1942 which is not used any more, and did not house the reactor inside a containment vessel.  In Fukushima, immediate steps were taken to bring the reaction under control.  Sometime in between the earthquake and the tsunami (perhaps only 90 seconds after the earthquake), sensors automatically injected control rods filled with boron into the reactor vessel, immediately reducing the power of the nuclear reaction to roughly 3% of its original level.  Furthermore, the Fukushima reactor vessels are housed inside concrete containment units.

[2] What remains is the challenge of bringing the residual 3% reaction under control.  Given the power of nuclear energy, even at 3% of its original level, it needs to be cooled further.  Japan appears to have suffered a considerable failure regarding back-up generators needed to both circulate cooling water through the containment units, and ventilate the buildings of hydrogen build-up.  Where does the hydrogen come from?  Vaporized water converts to very high volumes of steam, which at high temperatures can separate back into hydrogen and oxygen.    Hydrogen is highly combustible, even at only 2% concentrations.

[3] The failure of the diesel generators, are primarily a result of the tsunami washing away their fuel storage tanks, rather than from flooding which disabled the generators themselves.  At most US nuclear plants, diesel fuel storage tanks are either buried underground, or located within a structure designed to handle an earthquake or flood.  In Japan this appears not to be the case; they were above ground, adjacent to the beach, and not well protected.  It is amazing to think that inland US nuclear power plants are more flood-proof than their Japanese counterparts.  With the failure of the electrical systems, hydrogen has not been venting, and appears to have resulted in the explosions at 3 buildings.  In one building, an explosion/fire may have damaged the concrete containment unit, or the concrete “suppression chamber” which helps reduce pressure/heat from the reactor.

[4] The critical objective is to inject water inside the containment unit (which houses the reactor vessel).  While exposure of uranium/plutonium rods to air inside the reactor vessel increases the risk that the rods melt, as long as the reactor vessel is not breached and sufficient water is available, the process can eventually be cooled.  The next 72 hours are critical.

[5] As for nuclear power more broadly, when the book is written, the failure of the Fukushima systems design will play as prominent a role as the earthquake and tsunami itself.  There is no question that one of the 5 most powerful earthquakes on record (which forced the North American tectonic plate eastward by 66 feet), combined with 6-meter tsunami waves, creates a terrifying and formidable obstacle for energy facilities.  But considering how well facilities whose backup power did not fail are doing, design flaws regarding fuel storage tanks (and perhaps very basic ones) are likely to be part of the aftermath.  The chart shows how Japan’s nuclear efficiency (measured by its capacity factor) is among the lowest in the world.  This may be a partial indication of Japan’s design, maintenance and engineering inadequacies compared to other countries, which use different models, electrical system redundancies and protocols.

What now for Japan?
``What has so often excited wonder, is the great rapidity with which countries recover from a state of devastation, the disappearance in a short time, of all traces of mischief done by earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and the ravages of war.  An enemy lays waste a country by fire and sword, and destroys or carries away nearly all the moveable wealth existing in it: all the inhabitants are ruined, and yet in a few years after, everything is much as it was before.”

John Stuart Mill, Principles of Political Economy, 1848


Very good info P! :y :y :y :y :y

I think you may mean 1952, not 1942, though? :-/ :-/ ;) ;)

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Banjax

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #128 on: 16 March 2011, 16:45:23 »

Quote
..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean!  Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)



ah yes, typical  ;D ;D ;D

pity nowadays we bleat about the least little inconvenience  :( :(

i blame the Daily Mail personally, someone should just slap them when they get hysterical  :y
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #129 on: 16 March 2011, 17:43:17 »

Quote

We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

Absolutely splendid. 8-) 8-) :y
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #130 on: 16 March 2011, 18:03:54 »

Quote
..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean!  Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)


Exactly ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Debs.

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #131 on: 17 March 2011, 07:44:23 »

Loyalty?!?!......"We wouldn`t know the meaning of the word!" :-*

From the source:
You don't have to speak Japanese to understand the sympathetic tones of the two men observing these dogs who are also disaster victims -- and one loyal dog refusing to leave his hurt friend's side. There is so much we don't understand about the emotional lives of animals. But we know they can suffer tremendously, and we know they care for each other.
We wish all the people and animals of Japan heartfelt concern during this incomprehensibly difficult time. We know that the people of Japan will respond like these two friends, never abandoning each other in this time of need. Ganbatte kudasai! ("Don't give up!")

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=794_1300315026
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #132 on: 17 March 2011, 08:30:00 »

Quote
Loyalty?!?!......"We wouldn`t know the meaning of the word!" :-*

From the source:
You don't have to speak Japanese to understand the sympathetic tones of the two men observing these dogs who are also disaster victims -- and one loyal dog refusing to leave his hurt friend's side. There is so much we don't understand about the emotional lives of animals. But we know they can suffer tremendously, and we know they care for each other.
We wish all the people and animals of Japan heartfelt concern during this incomprehensibly difficult time. We know that the people of Japan will respond like these two friends, never abandoning each other in this time of need. Ganbatte kudasai! ("Don't give up!")

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=794_1300315026


I held out quite well up to the point at the end where the two faces came into shot - that did for me.

The conduct of the Japanese people in general and, specifically, of those people directly affected by this devastating tragedy has been impressive - but more importantly, it has been humbling.
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bigtow

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #133 on: 17 March 2011, 09:56:56 »

Quote
Grin...... Thumbs Up!

We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.
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 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y

bravo old chap bravo
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Serious earthquake in Japan
« Reply #134 on: 17 March 2011, 14:34:39 »

latest news: ther reactor is completely out of control..

reactor temperatures exceed 2200 Celcius.. As I understand from news only some hours are left for it to be Chernobyl II :'(
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