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Author Topic: Burning Rubber Smell?  (Read 4134 times)

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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #15 on: 12 August 2007, 09:19:30 »

Am not going to be running the engine again till I've stripped it right down again to see what the break is happening inside the belt cover.
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #16 on: 12 August 2007, 09:22:27 »

Quote
Is it auto? If so, when you did the cam covers did you disturb the autobox breather pipe so that it now touches the exhasut manifold? Have you changed or disturbed the cramk senor? same problem.

DO NOT LEAVE THIS

1. It is potentially lethal if the kids are geting headaches from the fumes
2. It is likely to catch fire.

It's a manual and is very probable that the crank sensor wiring was disturbed due to activity around it and the location of it.
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #17 on: 12 August 2007, 14:27:58 »

Bit of an update.

Stripped it back to the cambelt - nothing untoward found until I started to check for everything for tightness  - remembering that I never touched the belt or any idlers etc - well found that the upper idler securing bolt was handtight :o :o :o  also the lower idler was just nipped up :o
Timing luckily was only slightly out so have adjusted to bring it back into spec and done god knows how many hand rotations of the crank, checking, double checking and then several more - checking for timing and slack developing in the bolts etc - so at this point in time I believe I am timed and torqued up (2.6 remember too!!!)
Is there anything I should do before putting it all back together - I can take photos of positions if necessary - would be good to get confirmation.  Haven't needed to touch the tensioner so left well alone. Am assuming the burning smell may have been the belt as it was obviously not quiet secure.
Feedback greatly appreciated.

cheers

Lee
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #18 on: 12 August 2007, 15:12:37 »

You should check that the tensioner pulley is correctly adjusted too, as if slack has been allowed to develop it might not be. Slacken the nut and use an allen key to add tension until the marks line up (for a used belt).

Edited to say: However, I'd check the belt carefully for damage. If there has been the smell of burning rubber the belt is likely damaged.

Kevin
« Last Edit: 12 August 2007, 15:13:48 by Kevin_Wood »
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #19 on: 12 August 2007, 16:05:05 »

Quote
You should check that the tensioner pulley is correctly adjusted too, as if slack has been allowed to develop it might not be. Slacken the nut and use an allen key to add tension until the marks line up (for a used belt).

Edited to say: However, I'd check the belt carefully for damage. If there has been the smell of burning rubber the belt is likely damaged.

Kevin

Have maticulously checked the belt and can't find anything of note and tensioner adjusted to meet the line - so am going for it and putting back together..... crosses fingers :o
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #20 on: 12 August 2007, 17:50:10 »

All back together and the knocking/rattling noise coming from the cambelt cover is still coming in every other minute or so - am able to stop the rattle with a blip of the accelarator :( So am in a firm frame of mind that one of the idlers/tension roller has gone and only shows itself at running speed.  So that's the last I will hear my engine running till I can get a mobile VX mechanic to who knows what he is doing to replace the sodding belt and kit for me.

Anyone recommend a mechanic in Liverpool that is cheaper than VX price of £375!!

Lee
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Mike Collins

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #21 on: 12 August 2007, 21:16:05 »

Hello Lee, late reply I'm afraid, my 2.6 is just about due a cambelt change. So far I have only removed the covers, inspected the the idlers and checked the timing marks with the Laser tool. Will be changing in the next couple of weeks.
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #22 on: 12 August 2007, 21:42:21 »

Quote
Hello Lee, late reply I'm afraid, my 2.6 is just about due a cambelt change. So far I have only removed the covers, inspected the the idlers and checked the timing marks with the Laser tool. Will be changing in the next couple of weeks.

Hi Mike,

well I really believe I've been in full panic mode the last day or so and getting myself in a right stressed state - wanted to use my car to drive to work up in Aberdeen on Wednesday - but obviously not happening so am flying up instead to take the pressure off myself. Have no confidence in the many mobile mechanics I've spoken to tonight due to the lack of knowledge they've had with the VX V6's - I've now just slowly re-read the whole procedure with fresh eyes and a new found growing confidence - so will be returning to VX to obtain a cambelt tensioner kit - minus the belt and source the "marked" belt elsewhere. Then when I return from offshore in a couple of weeks will be making a concerted effort and fit the bloody thing to VX standards. :y

Lee
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #23 on: 12 August 2007, 22:03:28 »

Well done. Take it step by step and you'll be fine. Panic is your worst enemy when tackling jobs like this and you're right to take a break from it and return with a fresh head.

I was the same the first few times I did cam belt changes and then one day ended up building an engine with no timing marks anywhere and just a few timing specs that came with the cams. Once you're comfortable with it and you know it's just a matter of time and graft before it's back together it makes a big difference.

Kevin
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #24 on: 12 August 2007, 22:20:54 »

Quote
Well done. Take it step by step and you'll be fine. Panic is your worst enemy when tackling jobs like this and you're right to take a break from it and return with a fresh head.

I was the same the first few times I did cam belt changes and then one day ended up building an engine with no timing marks anywhere and just a few timing specs that came with the cams. Once you're comfortable with it and you know it's just a matter of time and graft before it's back together it makes a big difference.

Kevin

It was the missus to be honest well she was part of the mindsetting fix. Good old SWMBO!!!! (Gotta be careful here as I know she reads this to see if I've been slating her !!! As if I'd do that!!! :o)  Also, after discussing the complexities of the job and the unhelpul conversations with the VX techs on the phone and also some of the mechanics I've spoken too tonight -  came to the conclusion that the belt was put on by someone of possibly equal capabilities to myself (maybe less if it was VX ;)) and that they followed the exact same procedure I have been mindlessly staring at for the the last three days but not actually reading it - if you see what I mean :-?  But the penny has finally dropped in the know how and the recovery of Nickbats predicament gave me a huge confidance boost and a thorough boot up the arse.  So all I've got to do now is go get a Gates "marked" belt and do the job 8-)  Hopefully wont be back under stressed circumstances when I do the job in September  :o :D  

 :y


Lee
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Nickbat

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #25 on: 12 August 2007, 22:57:15 »

Quote
Quote
Well done. Take it step by step and you'll be fine. Panic is your worst enemy when tackling jobs like this and you're right to take a break from it and return with a fresh head.

I was the same the first few times I did cam belt changes and then one day ended up building an engine with no timing marks anywhere and just a few timing specs that came with the cams. Once you're comfortable with it and you know it's just a matter of time and graft before it's back together it makes a big difference.

Kevin

It was the missus to be honest well she was part of the mindsetting fix. Good old SWMBO!!!! (Gotta be careful here as I know she reads this to see if I've been slating her !!! As if I'd do that!!! :o)  Also, after discussing the complexities of the job and the unhelpul conversations with the VX techs on the phone and also some of the mechanics I've spoken too tonight -  came to the conclusion that the belt was put on by someone of possibly equal capabilities to myself (maybe less if it was VX ;)) and that they followed the exact same procedure I have been mindlessly staring at for the the last three days but not actually reading it - if you see what I mean :-?  But the penny has finally dropped in the know how and the recovery of Nickbats predicament gave me a huge confidance boost and a thorough boot up the arse.  So all I've got to do now is go get a Gates "marked" belt and do the job 8-)  Hopefully wont be back under stressed circumstances when I do the job in September  :o :D  

 :y


Lee

Tafty,
Sorry I replied in haste to your other thread about mobile mechanics without reading this thread first. I had a torrid time with my cambelt, but I can honestly say that many of my problems were due to a lack of confidence following the initial crisis of an unmarked belt and the discovery of a non-adjustable lower pulley (which few had heard of). What made it worse was the fact that, like you, I felt under time pressure. I got to the stage where I was afraid to do anything. Having Kevin Wood come down and "hold my hand" (metaphorically-speaking!!  ;D ;D) was a huge help. No, it was more than that, it was an automotive life-saver.

The problem with cambelts is that you can seriously damage your engine but, having said that, people like Ronnie McBurger are a godsend in that they will tell you time and again that it IS do-able by us amateurs, if we listen to their advice and take our time.

There are a number of important points with regard to my cambelt that I have learned this past week:

1. Use only belts with markings (or paint them on yourself using the old belt for a pattern)
2. If you have the non-adjustable roller setup, you must have an extra tooth of slack between the crank and No. 4 cam to enable the roller to be inserted.
3. Ideally, the locking tool should be set at 10 degrees BTDC (so that it looks vertical) before you insert the roller. The act of then setting it to TDC gives the belt the required tension.
4. For this engine, the Allen key distance on the adjustable pulley should be set at 10mm before crank rotation (NOT the 3-4mm as specified in Haynes for the 2.5)
5. If you get the timing out, do not panic. Take the belt off and then set the crank to about 4 o'clock. This sets the pistons in a configuration so that you can move the cams back to the proper TDC marks without any danger of the valves striking the pistons.
6. Have an extra helper on hand, especially if moving the cams about.
7. Keep your fingers well away from the cams when they are not locked. They have the power to take a digit off no problem.
8. Keep plugging away until everything lines up and stays that way when the engine is cranked round.

At the end of the day, as Kevin pointed out, if the everything lines up at TDC after rotation, the job's a good 'un. How you get there may be a bit hit and miss on these engines but as long as you don't damage the valves (see 3 above), just keep trying until it comes good.

I don't wish to sound like some super cambelt sage. I'm not. All I have learned has come directly from Ronnie and Kevin.  

Good luck, mate.  :y

Nick
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Tafty

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #26 on: 12 August 2007, 23:39:12 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Well done. Take it step by step and you'll be fine. Panic is your worst enemy when tackling jobs like this and you're right to take a break from it and return with a fresh head.

I was the same the first few times I did cam belt changes and then one day ended up building an engine with no timing marks anywhere and just a few timing specs that came with the cams. Once you're comfortable with it and you know it's just a matter of time and graft before it's back together it makes a big difference.

Kevin

It was the missus to be honest well she was part of the mindsetting fix. Good old SWMBO!!!! (Gotta be careful here as I know she reads this to see if I've been slating her !!! As if I'd do that!!! :o)  Also, after discussing the complexities of the job and the unhelpul conversations with the VX techs on the phone and also some of the mechanics I've spoken too tonight -  came to the conclusion that the belt was put on by someone of possibly equal capabilities to myself (maybe less if it was VX ;)) and that they followed the exact same procedure I have been mindlessly staring at for the the last three days but not actually reading it - if you see what I mean :-?  But the penny has finally dropped in the know how and the recovery of Nickbats predicament gave me a huge confidance boost and a thorough boot up the arse.  So all I've got to do now is go get a Gates "marked" belt and do the job 8-)  Hopefully wont be back under stressed circumstances when I do the job in September  :o :D  

 :y


Lee

Tafty,
Sorry I replied in haste to your other thread about mobile mechanics without reading this thread first. I had a torrid time with my cambelt, but I can honestly say that many of my problems were due to a lack of confidence following the initial crisis of an unmarked belt and the discovery of a non-adjustable lower pulley (which few had heard of). What made it worse was the fact that, like you, I felt under time pressure. I got to the stage where I was afraid to do anything. Having Kevin Wood come down and "hold my hand" (metaphorically-speaking!!  ;D ;D) was a huge help. No, it was more than that, it was an automotive life-saver.

The problem with cambelts is that you can seriously damage your engine but, having said that, people like Ronnie McBurger are a godsend in that they will tell you time and again that it IS do-able by us amateurs, if we listen to their advice and take our time.

There are a number of important points with regard to my cambelt that I have learned this past week:

1. Use only belts with markings (or paint them on yourself using the old belt for a pattern)
2. If you have the non-adjustable roller setup, you must have an extra tooth of slack between the crank and No. 4 cam to enable the roller to be inserted.
3. Ideally, the locking tool should be set at 10 degrees BTDC (so that it looks vertical) before you insert the roller. The act of then setting it to TDC gives the belt the required tension.
4. For this engine, the Allen key distance on the adjustable pulley should be set at 10mm before crank rotation (NOT the 3-4mm as specified in Haynes for the 2.5)
5. If you get the timing out, do not panic. Take the belt off and then set the crank to about 4 o'clockare you turning it through clockwise at all times??. This sets the pistons in a configuration so that you can move the cams back to the proper TDC marks without any danger of the valves striking the pistons.
6. Have an extra helper on hand, especially if moving the cams about.
7. Keep your fingers well away from the cams when they are not locked. They have the power to take a digit off no problem.
8. Keep plugging away until everything lines up and stays that way when the engine is cranked round.

At the end of the day, as Kevin pointed out, if the everything lines up at TDC after rotation, the job's a good 'un. How you get there may be a bit hit and miss on these engines but as long as you don't damage the valves (see 3 above), just keep trying until it comes good.

I don't wish to sound like some super cambelt sage. I'm not. All I have learned has come directly from Ronnie and Kevin.  

Good luck, mate.  :y

Nick

Cheers Nick just what I was after TBH - the more information directly related to the 2.6 is of enormous help.  I will probably be on when I'm going through with the install in September when I get home.  

Cheers matey :y :y

Lee
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Nickbat

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #27 on: 13 August 2007, 00:08:29 »

Tafty,

When the belt is off, you can turn the crank anticlockwise. Of course, you'll need to turn it anticlockwise anyway to get the 10 degree BTDC setup.

It'll be fine, mate. Trust me, I'm a muppet!  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,

Nick
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RonaldMcBurger

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #28 on: 13 August 2007, 01:12:40 »

Nobody else spotted the deliberate mistake then?

On non of these cars do you line the tensioner lines up. On the 2.5 and 3.0 you take then inner line up by 3-4 mm. On the 2.6 you go up 10mm!

If you just lined the lines up, you will have 10mm too much slack and hence the slapping.
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gofwb

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Re: Burning Rubber Smell?
« Reply #29 on: 20 August 2007, 12:52:21 »

Hi all,
 
 I did my 2.6 with the fixed lower idler at the weekend. I have done several 2.5's before with no problems.
 
I took me 7 times to get the timing right!!  It always seemed to be 1 tooth out, I finally got it spot on by fitting the belt lined up with the crank at TDC, then lined it up with the marks on the cams (as normal), I then rotated the crankshaft back 10 degrees (cam locking tools still on) so the crank locking tool is vertical this then gives you enough slack to fit the lower idler, when this is fitted I returned the crank back to TDC, rotated every thing and the timing was spot on.  
 
Will take me half the time next time, I do a lot of miles so it wont be that long.
 
Regards,
 
Frank.
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