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[Cliffo B]

Initially I was going to integrate the bladders into the S/L system
As you said in your post Kevin "suck it & see"
However when I realised as per your post I was in line to take out Miggy's S/L system
This to me is unacceptable as I think it to be one of Miggy's valued assets in normal mode
After all the S/L coped reasonably well when towing
Although I was always aware that stronger springs would cancell a tendency for the suspension to feel soft & swayey
When I installed the bladders and did the tests I was utterly gobsmacked how well the bladders complimented the S/L shocks
So long as the bladders inflation pressure is just right to remove the extra load off the springs
The shocks simply S/L and work as if Miggy is'nt loaded
I think possibly if say extra loading takes place without extra pressure in the bladders to compensate
The S/L shocks will  work as the S/L sensors will instruct
The bladders and the air assisted shocks work well together
Lets say the bladders are the strong muscle and the air shocks are the delicate touch
In view of of all this I'm happy to leave things as they are
It takes about 2 mins to connect the pump and inflate the bladders when hitching up and 20secs to deflate when unhitching
Thanks Kevin for your interest and the aforementioned post
I did "Suck it and See"
Only so far but far enough 

[Cliffo B]

Ah well Chris,
I've got to say good place for me to finish
I wanted to give Miggy the ability to take extra load + tug a caravan and not to be aware of extra stress
I got this with Spades
I now understand Chris that you want to use the bladders to help in another direction
If I can help in any way Ill be happy to

[feeutfo]

That's a great help already Cliffo.   

[Kevin Wood]

Ah, didn't realise it was installed in addition to the self levelling system. Fir enough, just to give it a little helping hand when towing. Must admit, I'd be tempted to do the same, as the MV6 ride height is a little low with a bit of weight on the hitch, but I don't tow that often.

[05omegav6]

Could this not be used with heavy duty springs and S/L shocks to really firm the back end up? Ride height may be a bit off though

[Lazydocker]

Could this not be used with heavy duty springs and S/L shocks to really firm the back end up? Ride height may be a bit off though

Trouble is, some of us find S/L shocks inadequate for our normal driving But need the s/l option for when fully loaded

These air bags seem to be the ideal solution

[feeutfo]

My intension is to use these (with the stock pump and sensor to start with) to replace SL shocks and their levelling function.
My car has irmscher springs with 30mill drop, and b4 shocks  all round. The SL shocks have been binned as they are rubbish as dampers.

This set up is fine with day to day use, but load up on holiday and the back is too low, as anyone attending the lakes last year may have seen.

So, hopefully, the best of both worlds answer would be as said above, fit Cliffo's air bladders in the springs for when fully loaded, and turn it off when not needed, or it may work full time if I can set the level sponsor at the desired position. We'll see.

[Cliffo B]

Al,I think it certainly would affect height without a load
Depends on how much pressure is in the bladders
In the instruction manual it gives the maximum allowed pressure as 30psi unloaded
And 40psi loaded
Later today I'll take some wheel arch height readings @ say 5psi increments up to the 30psi max
Unloaded of course

[Cliffo B]

That looks good Chris 
I obviously can't anticipate your suspension set up
You may need a differant bladder size
I don't think the bladders work that much on  push up
But push out between the spring coils giveing extra support to the coils
If I can find the guy's details I spoke to I'll PM you

[Kevin Wood]

Could this not be used with heavy duty springs and S/L shocks to really firm the back end up? Ride height may be a bit off though

They might firm up the springs but damping is what the S/L setup lacks, and it won't help there.

Replacement of the shocks with standard, then adding the bladders to restore self-levelling function might be worth a try. What we need to establish is the parameters of the levelling pump. I.E. what pressure can it deliver? Is it going to be man enough to inflate the bladders, and is it likely to burst them?

Anyone got one kicking around that I can experiment with?

[aaronjb]

I may be misunderstanding something, but .. if you're using a bladder within the spring to provide the levelling, won't you also be progressively raising the spring rate as you raise the car?

I'd have thought a 'levelling' system ought to use a bladder outside of the spring - either sandwiched above it or below it, or within the damper per the OE system to effectively make the damper longer or shorter (though doing that in itself probably changes the effective spring rate as you'll change the preload on the spring - so I guess the best system would be a bladder that can move the spring platform along with a suitably long throw shock absorber)..

Somehow it sounds like a worse compromise than the OE levelling system.. and different to what Cliffo has achieved, which is essentially a system that lets him restore the spring rate to suit the ride he wants, rather than the ride height he wants?

[Cliffo B]

I can say the bladders have a fairly thick gauge wall
The plastic is of a very tough resilient nature
I do believe it would take a lot of pressure to burst it when encased within a spring
When it comes to getting the bladder inside the spring its just about impossible
Certainly my hands/fingers could'nt cope the plastic was far too strong
I devised the following method
Could be a better way
Connect about a metre of tube to the nipple
Get a bucket of hot soapy water
Use a pella to create a vac in the bladder
Dunk the bladder in the water
Safe enough with the tube on the nipple (water could'nt enter the bladder)
I think the need of the vacuum in the bladder could be down to arthur in my hands
5yrs ago on the MV6 
Seem to remember a  bucket of hot water was all that was needed
 

[feeutfo]

The way I see it, ride hight needs to be supported with extra weight, and spring rate needs to increase with extra weight. Will this not achieve both?

The oe system on shock bladders give little independance per wheel on the rear in all circumstances, and its worse when loaded with little give. Too small a bladder or not elastic enough perhaps? Or maybe the air can't transfer side to side quick enough through the oe air pipes? That issue would still remain useimg stock SL sensor and pump. But only when plugged in. Although I may need to fit a purge valve somehow.

I don't see a need for a level system at all if unloaded.

[Cliffo B]

Kevin I found the bladders worked superb on my MV6
That after all was why I got them

[Cliffo B]

Just checked out the bladders body lift
Unloaded
Wheelarch meas without pressure 67.5cm
Meas with 30psi after run round block 70cm
This is of course with S/L operational