Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 04 March 2012, 11:03:09
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Got this out yesterday.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/IMG065.jpg)
Very pleased with myself... plenum off in 20 minutes, disspac out in around an hour!!
Did end up using this rather odd set up to get one of the awkward disspac screws out though... not the most conventional set up i've ever seen used ;D but it worked!!!
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/IMG066.jpg)
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Well done Webby.Its a job that makes some grown men tremble at the very thought. :y
It was around 5 years ago when I changed one,but iirc, I also used that setup. :y
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yeah good work :y
If you had taken that to a garage, bet they would not have done that job in the same time! ;)
You just saved yourself at least £100 in labour :D
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Well done Webby.Its a job that makes some grown men tremble at the very thought. :y
It was around 5 years ago when I changed one,but iirc, I also used that setup. :y
Cheers Albs... was the only thing i had in the kit due to the 8mm only fitting on the 1/4 drive ::)
Going to be getting the Cam Covers off next weekend so purchasing some black sealant. can i get on TC? Also, I am presuming that when I come to actually lifting off the cam covers, they're going to be stuck in place due to the previous sealant? I had a check round the back of the covers this weekend and there was this pliable plastic shite hanging down, snipped a bit off (was lots of excess hanging down) and it looked like vaseline but had the exact texture and ''play'' of bathroom sealant. any ideas what the fek this is? :o
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yeah good work :y
If you had taken that to a garage, bet they would not have done that job in the same time! ;)
You just saved yourself at least £100 in labour :D
;D ;D ;D
the odd thing was, due to a bit more confidence i really bloody enjoyed it!
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Well done Webby.Its a job that makes some grown men tremble at the very thought. :y
It was around 5 years ago when I changed one,but iirc, I also used that setup. :y
Cheers Albs... was the only thing i had in the kit due to the 8mm only fitting on the 1/4 drive ::)
Going to be getting the Cam Covers off next weekend so purchasing some black sealant. can i get on TC? Also, I am presuming that when I come to actually lifting off the cam covers, they're going to be stuck in place due to the previous sealant? I had a check round the back of the covers this weekend and there was this pliable plastic shite hanging down, snipped a bit off (was lots of excess hanging down) and it looked like vaseline but had the exact texture and ''play'' of bathroom sealant. any ideas what the fek this is? :o
i didnt do it i asked him about that never seen it before b##### cowboy work :y :y :y
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did you notice i didn't swear grr >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Yes hats off :y well done :y
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Cheers all.
Ralf, ''Ralf'' will be up and running in no time ;D
EMD, I noticed the one you pulled out had corroded... this one looks cosmetically fine. must be the insides that are nackered.
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Cheers all.
Ralf, ''Ralf'' will be up and running in no time ;D
EMD, I noticed the one you pulled out had corroded... this one looks cosmetically fine. must be the insides that are nackered.
Yes noticed that , dont know if it could be internal or how you could get it checked :-\ Did you get a new one :-\ Same fitting as mine i noticed too .No splits down the edges ???
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Cheers all.
Ralf, ''Ralf'' will be up and running in no time ;D
EMD, I noticed the one you pulled out had corroded... this one looks cosmetically fine. must be the insides that are nackered.
Yes noticed that , dont know if it could be internal or how you could get it checked :-\ Did you get a new one :-\ Same fitting as mine i noticed too .No splits down the edges ???
nope. no splits, looks ok. i think its the leads anyway as they're still in a bit of oil following the CC gasket change. i'm presuming the wells weren't cleaned properly :-\
well anyway going to order leads and disspac this week, then saturday all plugs out, clean the wells and all back together. then charge it up and see what's what :y
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you can do a better job than that cowboy steve :y :y :y cant work out it had plenty off power before the cam covers were done and not after ??? ??? ??? ???
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you can do a better job than that cowboy steve :y :y :y cant work out it had plenty off power before the cam covers were done and not after ??? ??? ??? ???
haha cheers mate :y dunno son....leads are probably fekked. ill change the lot and see what's what ;)
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Ps, sorry, not trying to ''bump'' this thread up but there is something I forgot to ask.
When I fit the new disspac would I incur any problems by simply plugging it all in (leads and connector) not screwed down and sitting next to the plenum. I think there is enough room to stretch the connector**
Just thinking that if the replacement doesnt cure the problem then I'll simply re-sell the new parts I've bought/buying and not screwing it down/putting it in place will save a bit of time and hassle.
** Pure guess and the connector might not even stretch ::)
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Wont do any harm Webby.I saw one last sunday with the dispack located somewhere around the passenger side bulkhead/inner wing. :y
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Wont do any harm Webby.I saw one last sunday with the dispack located somewhere around the passenger side bulkhead/inner wing. :y
cheers mate. ill do that and nail it down if its all good. cheers bro :y :y :y :y :y
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Ps, sorry, not trying to ''bump'' this thread up but there is something I forgot to ask.
When I fit the new disspac would I incur any problems by simply plugging it all in (leads and connector) not screwed down and sitting next to the plenum. I think there is enough room to stretch the connector**
Just thinking that if the replacement doesnt cure the problem then I'll simply re-sell the new parts I've bought/buying and not screwing it down/putting it in place will save a bit of time and hassle.
** Pure guess and the connector might not even stretch ::)
It could really do with re routing altogether , what a bad design putting it where it is >:( hope it fires up for you like mine did when it was replaced ...all that work paying off and saving shed loads in costly garage repair bills . Once you have it sorted you wont want your prev car having re built this one ;)
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That screw driver extention is bloody handy. :y
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Ps, sorry, not trying to ''bump'' this thread up but there is something I forgot to ask.
No problem - in fact, unless the thread starts to get really big, a single project like this is worth keeping on one thread :y
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what a bad design putting it where it is
Is it?
Not so close to a HBV would have been nice, but I guess the HBV problem wasn't known at early design stage. Struggling to think where else it could have been mounted on the engine, remembering it has to suit FWD applications as well...
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Ps, sorry, not trying to ''bump'' this thread up but there is something I forgot to ask.
No problem - in fact, unless the thread starts to get really big, a single project like this is worth keeping on one thread :y
Cheers mate. I thought that's best instead of starting loads of new threads :y
Good and bad news today.
As I've mentioned I'm whipping the cam covers off at the weekend and making sure all is tickatyboo. So went to Vx. They kindly sold me the sealant at TC price even though it's apparently not on the TC site (didn't bother checking) so got a tube for £3something. :y got new plugs too.
However, called a local place for a new disspac (leads on order from Euro car parts for £31! :y) and was quoted £70 inc. VAT :'( Was hoping it would be a bit cheaper than that.
Soooooo the weekends schedule not affected at all but I'm definitely not screwing that diss pac down yet in case it turns out that it's that that's fubared and has to be changed. If I get the new disspac and the damn car still doesn't work then further diagnosis with the paperclip test :y
My plan is thus, questions in red:
- injector rail off
- unscrew covers and gently prising them off with a small screwdriver as the previous sealant may stick them down... or best to gently hammer them off with rubber mallet?
- Should I put tee-towels over cams? And do I need to get any oil out of the joins?
- pull gaskets out of covers (I presume that's ok - Ralf says they've only just been done so I don't imagine they're melted to the covers) and check and refit.
- check O rings on screw holes.
- sealant
- refit and torque screws down to 8nm... Any tips when placing the cam covers back before screwing down or is it as easy as I think it should be? ;D
- spark plugs out. clean wells as they're isn't much oil but enough to leave the leads with a fine coating of oil. leave for a bit to let any further oil drain.
- new plugs.
- reassemble everything
Any advice/tips/help with my Q's would be super sweet! cheers guys :y :y :y :y :y
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spark plugs are new steve went in the same time as cam covers were done :y :y :y
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spark plugs are new steve went in the same time as cam covers were done :y :y :y
bugger! ;D never mind, ill chuck them on fleabay.
.....actually thats a good point ralf..... if the plugs have been sitting in oil (albeit minimal) can they be affected too as i know the leads definitely can? :-\
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Passenger side cam cover... 'tis a tight fit due to the cable loom, you'll have taken the loom right out of the holder, I found it easiest to tie the loom back to the bonnet support strut to get it out of the way.
Still not an amazing amount of room and the first time I ever did the job as I passed the cover in the rear most cambolt top must have just knocked the gasket out a tad such that the 1/2 moon did not fit properly .. and I never noticed ... until I started her up .. leaked like a pig so the whole lot back off to sort ..... not happy :(
I now take great care to ensure nothing moves as that cover goes in, and I use a mirror and torch to check the 1/2 moon ... any doubt and its off, cleaned up and refitted there and then .... no rebuild and leak again ...
HTH :)
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i dont think so they havent been in long enough to break down i have had them sat in oil on my 2.0 for 2 month and cleaned them up they still worked 2 years later :y :y :y :y
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Make absolutley sure you connect the plug leads up correctly as the ones for the 2-4-6 do NOT connect 2-4-6 s you would expect......common mistake but the correct connections are written on the DIS pack.
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Passenger side cam cover... 'tis a tight fit due to the cable loom, you'll have taken the loom right out of the holder, I found it easiest to tie the loom back to the bonnet support strut to get it out of the way.
Still not an amazing amount of room and the first time I ever did the job as I passed the cover in the rear most cambolt top must have just knocked the gasket out a tad such that the 1/2 moon did not fit properly .. and I never noticed ... until I started her up .. leaked like a pig so the whole lot back off to sort ..... not happy :(
I now take great care to ensure nothing moves as that cover goes in, and I use a mirror and torch to check the 1/2 moon ... any doubt and its off, cleaned up and refitted there and then .... no rebuild and leak again ...
HTH :)
That makes a lot of sense Entwood... really don't want to be doing it twice in one day!
With regards to the 1/2 moon... in this pic I can see the half moon clearly... presumably the cam cover is shaped 1/2 moon as well to fit in to this..with the gasket in between.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/jfoucfovc.jpg)
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Make absolutley sure you connect the plug leads up correctly as the ones for the 2-4-6 do NOT connect 2-4-6 s you would expect......common mistake but the correct connections are written on the DIS pack.
Thanks Mark.
yep already aware of that. Why 2-6-4 on the disspac I wonder? :-\
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half moon is at the back steve :y :y :y
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The 1/2 moon is visible to the left end of your photo ... the cam cover is "flat" at the same point, so a large "1/2 moon" of rubber is a part of the gasket ..... it has a tendency to a life of its own and to move ... but when fitted correctly is a snug, smooth fit. Small amounts of black sealant on the "sharp" corners as per the guide.
Once you see the gasket/cover of it will all make some sort of sense .. :)
I take it you have read/printed off the guide ???
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Make absolutley sure you connect the plug leads up correctly as the ones for the 2-4-6 do NOT connect 2-4-6 s you would expect......common mistake but the correct connections are written on the DIS pack.
Thanks Mark.
yep already aware of that. Why 2-6-4 on the disspac I wonder? :-\
Its to do with firing order, and the fact it uses a wasted spark principle.
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The 1/2 moon is visible to the left end of your photo ... the cam cover is "flat" at the same point, so a large "1/2 moon" of rubber is a part of the gasket ..... it has a tendency to a life of its own and to move ... but when fitted correctly is a snug, smooth fit. Small amounts of black sealant on the "sharp" corners as per the guide.
Once you see the gasket/cover of it will all make some sort of sense .. :)
I take it you have read/printed off the guide ???
Aaaaaaha! Now it all makes sense!!!! I can see how that would go pear-shaped! Is the 1/2 moon gasket that ''slots'' in quite stiff or is it like playing pool with a length of rope? ::)
No need to print guide.... it will be open on my laptop nearby in case I get stuck :y :y :y
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The 1/2 moon is visible to the left end of your photo ... the cam cover is "flat" at the same point, so a large "1/2 moon" of rubber is a part of the gasket ..... it has a tendency to a life of its own and to move ... but when fitted correctly is a snug, smooth fit. Small amounts of black sealant on the "sharp" corners as per the guide.
Once you see the gasket/cover of it will all make some sort of sense .. :)
I take it you have read/printed off the guide ???
Aaaaaaha! Now it all makes sense!!!! I can see how that would go pear-shaped! Is the 1/2 moon gasket that ''slots'' in quite stiff or is it like playing pool with a length of rope? ::)
No need to print guide.... it will be open on my laptop nearby in case I get stuck :y :y :y
The 1/2 moon itself is quite firm, but where it attaches to the rest of the gasket is "floppy" which is why, IMHO it tends to move. it is "shaped" to sit on the metal, and once lined up does fit well.. it is just a matter of ensuring it IS seated well before tightening everything up .... hence the use of torch/mirror ... I'm told the "experts" can do it by feel.. just running a finger around the 1/2 moon once the cover is in position ... obviously whoever calibrated my fingers failed to do the job correctly !!!
:)
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The 1/2 moon is visible to the left end of your photo ... the cam cover is "flat" at the same point, so a large "1/2 moon" of rubber is a part of the gasket ..... it has a tendency to a life of its own and to move ... but when fitted correctly is a snug, smooth fit. Small amounts of black sealant on the "sharp" corners as per the guide.
Once you see the gasket/cover of it will all make some sort of sense .. :)
I take it you have read/printed off the guide ???
Aaaaaaha! Now it all makes sense!!!! I can see how that would go pear-shaped! Is the 1/2 moon gasket that ''slots'' in quite stiff or is it like playing pool with a length of rope? ::)
No need to print guide.... it will be open on my laptop nearby in case I get stuck :y :y :y
The 1/2 moon itself is quite firm, but where it attaches to the rest of the gasket is "floppy" which is why, IMHO it tends to move. it is "shaped" to sit on the metal, and once lined up does fit well.. it is just a matter of ensuring it IS seated well before tightening everything up .... hence the use of torch/mirror ... I'm told the "experts" can do it by feel.. just running a finger around the 1/2 moon once the cover is in position ... obviously whoever calibrated my fingers failed to do the job correctly !!!
:)
Excellent.... Airfix all over again ::) ;D ;D ;D
Cheers mate, thats really helpful :y :y
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Its simple, the setup works on the waisted spark principle e.g. it fires one cylinder close to top dead centre on the compression stroke and another one which is top dead centre on the exhaust stroke.
As we have six cylinders and the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 we get
| Compression | Exhaust |
| 1 | 4 |
| 2 | 5 |
| 3 | 6 |
| 4 | 1 |
| 5 | 2 |
| 6 | 3 |
So if we now consider the coil pack we get
5-3-1
2-6-4
Simples.......but not obvious!
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Thanks for the info Mark. gonna be honest I don't really get it :-[ but I appreciate the attempt to educate a prat :D ;D :y :y :y
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The basics are that the DIS pack contains three coils.....the ends of each coil are connected to a spark plug and hence each coil fires two spark plugs.
On a compressions stroke (e.g. where you want to light the fuel air max) you need 20,000 volts, on an exaust cycle (where your pumping the exhaust gases down the exhaust) you need about 2,000 volts. Hence its called a wasted spark (as the one on the exhaust cycle is doing nothing henc eits wasted).
And the above explains why certain cylinders are connected as they are.
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The basics are that the DIS pack contains three coils.....the ends of each coil are connected to a spark plug and hence each coil fires two spark plugs.
On a compressions stroke (e.g. where you want to light the fuel air max) you need 20,000 volts, on an exaust cycle (where your pumping the exhaust gases down the exhaust) you need about 2,000 volts. Hence its called a wasted spark (as the one on the exhaust cycle is doing nothing henc eits wasted).
And the above explains why certain cylinders are connected as they are.
By just saying that I now get it! I didn't realise that. Thanks mate ;)
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Diss pack needs to be earthed mate - usually earths thro fixing bolts!
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Diss pack needs to be earthed mate - usually earths thro fixing bolts!
I see... so that's why it's bolted down! So maybe my idea of strapping it to the cable tray won't work then? :-\
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Diss pack needs to be earthed mate - usually earths thro fixing bolts!
All together now......ow no it doesn't :y
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was quoted £70 inc. VAT
I was quoted that over the phone , then when i picked it up they charged me £46 so i grabbed it and made a sharp exit :-X If its a BOSCH rip his arm off ...cheapest i could get bosch was £110 . Check the old one first RALF might not need one at all ;)
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was quoted £70 inc. VAT
I was quoted that over the phone , then when i picked it up they charged me £46 so i grabbed it and made a sharp exit :-X If its a BOSCH rip his arm off ...cheapest i could get bosch was £110 . Check the old one first RALF might not need one at all ;)
;D ;D ;D cheers Steve. Yeah, i've convinced myself it's the leads anyway so could save myself some bucks :y :y :y
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was quoted £70 inc. VAT
I was quoted that over the phone , then when i picked it up they charged me £46 so i grabbed it and made a sharp exit :-X If its a BOSCH rip his arm off ...cheapest i could get bosch was £110 . Check the old one first RALF might not need one at all ;)
i dont need one anyway ha ha ;D ;D ;D ;D
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was quoted £70 inc. VAT
I was quoted that over the phone , then when i picked it up they charged me £46 so i grabbed it and made a sharp exit :-X If its a BOSCH rip his arm off ...cheapest i could get bosch was £110 . Check the old one first RALF might not need one at all ;)
i dont need one anyway ha ha ;D ;D ;D ;D
No but RALF 2 does might ;)
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Evening chaps. Hope you're all well and all happy after the return of the
stink pink ;D
In preperation for my Cam Cover job at the weekend I have some Q's (sorry, I know I'm a pain.... but hey this is a car forum ;D)
Ok, first things first...
Here is the wording from the guide on how to remove the inlet bridge:
Now de-pressurise the fuel system by removing the black plastic cap at the rear left of the injector rail, surrounding it in a dry rag and pressing the centre of the valve in.
Disconnect the air pipe from the fuel pressure regulator. Unplug the injector loom and remove the 6 securing bolts which hold the injector bridge assembly to the inlet.
Un-bolt the feed and return unions on the fuel rail(Caution some fuel will escape so surround it in a rag)
Remove the inlet bridge and injector assembly.
Ok, so I understand that to de-pressurise the fuel system I remove that valve cover (looks like the valve cap on the tyres) and presumably fuel will piss out and I should press down whatever lurks beneath that valve cover (sorry, never took it off).
Now the rest being 100% honest I don't know what/where these are:
Air pipe from the pressure regulator
Injector loom
6 securing bolts (can't nip out to check on the car as it's not here but not worried about these as I'm sure I'll be able to see them)
Feed and return unions (Are these the two that have the yellow fuel warning labels on?)
If anyone could advise or provide an idiots pic with arrows that would be sweeeet.
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Valve is just like car. Not much will come out, so just a rag under it. More will come out when you undo fuel lines later.
The pipe is obvious - goes from ICV (non DBW) or Throttle body (DBW) to the fuel pressure reg.
Its all quite obvious when you get down there :y
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Valve is just like car. Not much will come out, so just a rag under it. More will come out when you undo fuel lines later.
The pipe is obvious - goes from ICV (non DBW) or Throttle body (DBW) to the fuel pressure reg.
Its all quite obvious when you get down there :y
Thanks mate. May sound like I'm worrying but just really want reassurance that if I undo the wrong thing I won't A.) fry myself or B.) bake the car. :y
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Injector loom connector & the fuel feed/return unions shown here Steve
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z257/belisensis/inletmanifold.jpg)
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Injector loom connector & the fuel feed/return unions shown here Steve
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z257/belisensis/inletmanifold.jpg)
legend, cheers roberto ;)
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Glad to assist "Mr. Mechanic" :D
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Glad to assist "Mr. Mechanic" :D
;D ;D ;D That reminds me, I have my college interview on Thursday 29th March. Going to explain what limited knowledge i have and see where i'm best suited ;)
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Glad to assist "Mr. Mechanic" :D
;D ;D ;D That reminds me, I have my college interview on Thursday 29th March. Going to explain what limited knowledge i have and see where i'm best suited ;)
Behind the steering wheel :D :D ;D :y
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Glad to assist "Mr. Mechanic" :D
;D ;D ;D That reminds me, I have my college interview on Thursday 29th March. Going to explain what limited knowledge i have and see where i'm best suited ;)
Behind the steering wheel :D :D ;D :y
probably ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Hee hee! Good 'un Rob ;D ;D ;D
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your not safe there steve ha ha
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Agreed?................ :y :y :y :y Thanks Rob
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Saturday.png)
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Also , dont have a tab while you undo the fuel rail ...combustion is likely at a fast pace ::) Health and safety an all 8)
Like the no nonsense diagram ;D
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Also , dont have a tab while you undo the fuel rail ...combustion is likely at a fast pace ::) Health and safety an all 8)
Spent a while working on someones car once with the fuel system in bits - he stood there and chain smoked next to it.. some people!
Incidentally, I didn't read (ahem) the bit about using the valve to release pressure when I did mine; so I just cracked the unions off with a towel under them. Nothing bad happened ;)
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Also , dont have a tab while you undo the fuel rail ...combustion is likely at a fast pace ::) Health and safety an all 8)
Spent a while working on someones car once with the fuel system in bits - he stood there and chain smoked next to it.. some people!
Incidentally, I didn't read (ahem) the bit about using the valve to release pressure when I did mine; so I just cracked the unions off with a towel under them. Nothing bad happened ;)
The price of petrol now i'd be sucking the towel and spitting it back in the tank :-X
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Also , dont have a tab while you undo the fuel rail ...combustion is likely at a fast pace ::) Health and safety an all 8)
Spent a while working on someones car once with the fuel system in bits - he stood there and chain smoked next to it.. some people!
Incidentally, I didn't read (ahem) the bit about using the valve to release pressure when I did mine; so I just cracked the unions off with a towel under them. Nothing bad happened ;)
The price of petrol now i'd be sucking the towel and spitting it back in the tank :-X
Already on that Steve.... got a tub that i'm then gonna empty back in the tank bearing in mind i'm still unsure as to how much is going to piss out :-\ :y
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Less than a cup full - probably less than an egg cup full. Not much, really, from memory.
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Less than a cup full - probably less than an egg cup full. Not much, really, from memory.
Sweet! Cheers Aaron :y
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Maybe another egg cup full or so if you take it off and tip it up to really empty the rails :)
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Some retain fuel pressure better than others, hence the recommendation to depressurised. If you don't, I'd recommend safety glasses.
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Some retain fuel pressure better than others, hence the recommendation to depressurised. If you don't, I'd recommend safety glasses.
Right then chaps. Interesting afternoon. I didn't get the whole thing and completed as I'd like but I was with my mate and we took our time, had chin wags and cups of tea that I wouldn't have had if he wasn't there ::)
However, inlet pipes came off peice of piss..... although it took a while to get the bolts out and the actual unit itself seemed wedged between the cam covers.... but a bit of wiggling and manouvering... it was out ;) less fuel than I expected came out and I managed to capture it all in a small tray I lifted from the recycling tub :y
Only managed to do the drivers side CC gasket mainly cos I promised my mate lunch and beers at the pub ::) and to be fair it looked like it was gonna piss down.
Sooo got the gaskets out, took all the manky sealant off. The previous guy had put sealant over the whole of the gaskets... and I mean traced his sealant all the way round! Fitted them back no problem. I put my had over the half moons once fitted and the gasket does ''over hang'' slightly. However, they are sitting nicely and everything went back fine.
So my Q after doing this is should the gasket be completely flush or will there be a bit of overhang from the half moons? If so I'll whip it back off and reseal. no drama :y
Also took the spark plugs out.... wells weren't ''full'' of oil but the plugs were covered!! so took them all out to drain and cleaned the wells. Will do the same on the pass. side :y
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Your getting there webby,and learning all the time. :y Passenger side,same as drivers side but quite a lot more awkward,mainly due to the cable tray.I use a couple of bungee cords to hold it as far away from where it belongs as I can possibly get it. ;)
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Some retain fuel pressure better than others, hence the recommendation to depressurised. If you don't, I'd recommend safety glasses.
Right then chaps. Interesting afternoon. I didn't get the whole thing and completed as I'd like but I was with my mate and we took our time, had chin wags and cups of tea that I wouldn't have had if he wasn't there ::)
However, inlet pipes came off peice of piss..... although it took a while to get the bolts out and the actual unit itself seemed wedged between the cam covers.... but a bit of wiggling and manouvering... it was out ;) less fuel than I expected came out and I managed to capture it all in a small tray I lifted from the recycling tub :y
Only managed to do the drivers side CC gasket mainly cos I promised my mate lunch and beers at the pub ::) and to be fair it looked like it was gonna piss down.
Sooo got the gaskets out, took all the manky sealant off. The previous guy had put sealant over the whole of the gaskets... and I mean traced his sealant all the way round! Fitted them back no problem. I put my had over the half moons once fitted and the gasket does ''over hang'' slightly. However, they are sitting nicely and everything went back fine.
So my Q after doing this is should the gasket be completely flush or will there be a bit of overhang from the half moons? If so I'll whip it back off and reseal. no drama :y
Also took the spark plugs out.... wells weren't ''full'' of oil but the plugs were covered!! so took them all out to drain and cleaned the wells. Will do the same on the pass. side :y
Its been lovely here today ;D ;D PUB weather ;D ;D
Slight overhang from what i can remember / minimal ;)
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Webby ... for the bolts you had trouble getting out .... even more awkward getting em back in ... use one of those "magnets on a stick" things ... about £2 in Wilkinsons or about £4 in a motor factors. Very useful for aligning and starting the bolts. Once the thread has started the magnet pulls of .. if the thread has "missed" the whole bolt lifts !!
The actual inlet has little "projections" on the side that have to line up with corresponding "indents" ... I've always found that aligning the drivers side with the passenger side raised about 30 degrees it seems to slot in/out easier.
HTH :)
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Would agree with Nige on the magnet.I used one last week to put those bolts back in and it makes the job so much easier. :y
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Thanks guys. I;ll defo get one of those magnets... so much simpler than pissing about with pliers like i did ::)
As for the overhang, as said it's not much, but i'm thinking the gasket half moon section did seem quite a lot thicker than the metal half moon it was attaching to. the gaskets actually slotted in really well. cant believe the amount of shit that was on there though! all over the gaskets. i just did the half moons and the corners at the top near th timing belt.
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Thanks guys. I;ll defo get one of those magnets... so much simpler than pissing about with pliers like i did ::)
As for the overhang, as said it's not much, but i'm thinking the gasket half moon section did seem quite a lot thicker than the metal half moon it was attaching to. the gaskets actually slotted in really well. cant believe the amount of shit that was on there though! all over the gaskets. i just did the half moons and the corners at the top near th timing belt.
Yeah it supposed to be man ;) When you done that can you do mine and cambelt also with oil change and ATF change :D
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My hats off to you Webby :y There's no better way to learn than the way you're doing it & you look like you're enjoying it too which is always a big bonus! ;D :y
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Some retain fuel pressure better than others, hence the recommendation to depressurised. If you don't, I'd recommend safety glasses.
Right then chaps. Interesting afternoon. I didn't get the whole thing and completed as I'd like but I was with my mate and we took our time, had chin wags and cups of tea that I wouldn't have had if he wasn't there ::)
However, inlet pipes came off peice of piss..... although it took a while to get the bolts out and the actual unit itself seemed wedged between the cam covers.... but a bit of wiggling and manouvering... it was out ;) less fuel than I expected came out and I managed to capture it all in a small tray I lifted from the recycling tub :y
Only managed to do the drivers side CC gasket mainly cos I promised my mate lunch and beers at the pub ::) and to be fair it looked like it was gonna piss down.
Sooo got the gaskets out, took all the manky sealant off. The previous guy had put sealant over the whole of the gaskets... and I mean traced his sealant all the way round! Fitted them back no problem. I put my had over the half moons once fitted and the gasket does ''over hang'' slightly. However, they are sitting nicely and everything went back fine.
So my Q after doing this is should the gasket be completely flush or will there be a bit of overhang from the half moons? If so I'll whip it back off and reseal. no drama :y
Also took the spark plugs out.... wells weren't ''full'' of oil but the plugs were covered!! so took them all out to drain and cleaned the wells. Will do the same on the pass. side :y
i told you the guy was a cowboy vx mecanic my bum never use him again :y :y :y :y
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and when you get it going you can do some work for me :y :y :y :y :y
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Webby ... for the bolts you had trouble getting out .... even more awkward getting em back in ... use one of those "magnets on a stick" things ... about £2 in Wilkinsons or about £4 in a motor factors. Very useful for aligning and starting the bolts. Once the thread has started the magnet pulls of .. if the thread has "missed" the whole bolt lifts !!
Unrelated tip but - I use a similar scheme to ensure I never cross thread a spark plug, only rather than using a magnet I pop a length of 4mm vacuum hose onto the metal contact (it's a tight fit, usually use silicone ;)) and drop the plug down on that then start screwing it in by spinning the hose around. Never get enough torque on it to cross thread it and they always go in nicely (obviously finish it with a socket ;D)
Anyhoo..
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Webby - look at the other packet of gaskets, not yet fitted, and it will be obvious why, and how much, overhang you should have :y
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Chaps, thanks very much for all the very useful comments as usual.
I'm pleased to say, all C gaskets done and everything is back together! woo hoo.
unfortunately my dear old mam had pissed off with the car for the day so didn't get time to put jump leads on and fire her up... but there's plenty of time... may pop home at lunchen tomorrow and fire her up ;)
As for finishing the job itself, it went real smooth. I went to get my bungee cords from the garage and realised I must have lost them on my last fishing trip! >:( however, my fishing kit would play a part in helping me later on ;) i didnt manage to get to wilko's for a magnet but i raided my tackle box and found my very long forceps... absolutely perfect for dropping the 6 screws under the inlet bridge! :y
As mentioned i've obviously lost my bungee cords, but this is no problem when you have a willing parent to help out ;D tied one of the old HT leads round the cable tray and had him pull on it for the 5 mins i was applying sealant. wiggled the cam cover in plce and noticed that the nearside half moon had fallen out. popped it back in and even though i ended up covered in that crappy sealant i got it all in there.
2 possibly 3 problems have occurred.
1. I have a pipe left over that doesnt appear to go anywhere :o i traced it back and as you look at the engine it runs down past the right hand side of the breather box.... is this the pipe thats meant to be free from the gearbox that i've heard about??? it's just a bit thicker and bigger than the breather pipes. weird as i didnt notice it when i stripped the car ::)
2. ther is a thin wire coming right round from the bottom of the bag pipes that fits to the back of the plenum ehere the connector is. the thin wire ends with a ''hook'' tubing. is this the right place for it at back of plenum?
3. and finally when i refitted the inlet bridge and in jector rail some trapped fuel pissed all over the spark plug wells that were open as i hadnt refitted the HT leads. i got the plugs out straight away and cleaned them up. that goona cause a problem? :-\ should have anticipated it but hey... ill learn for next time ;)
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I picked up a pack of a magnetic telescopic stick, telescopic mirror and small magnetic tray from Aldi earlier, £2.49. Actually, I bought 2 ;D
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1. Yes
2.Yes
3.Nothing to worry about. :y
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1. Yes
2.Yes
3.Nothing to worry about. :y
You're a bloody diamond. Cheers Albs :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Any tips for starting the car up bearing in mind i emptied the fuel out the rails? will it take a while to start do you think? :)
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Any tips for starting the car up bearing in mind i emptied the fuel out the rails? will it take a while to start do you think? :)
It may crank for an extra couple of seconds,nothing to worry about :y
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Any tips for starting the car up bearing in mind i emptied the fuel out the rails? will it take a while to start do you think? :)
It may crank for an extra couple of seconds,nothing to worry about :y
Sweeeeet! cheers henry ;)
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
Hahahaha cheers JC.
However, Ralf is still dead. 20 mins i spent trying to jump start it. is that usual or would you suggest battery's fekked?
when i first turned key it was like it was half dead, after 20 mins it was turning over a bit faster but still no joy.
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
Hahahaha cheers JC.
However, Ralf is still dead. 20 mins i spent trying to jump start it. is that usual or would you suggest battery's fekked?
when i first turned key it was like it was half dead, after 20 mins it was turning over a bit faster but still no joy.
How are you connecting the leads Steve
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
Hahahaha cheers JC.
However, Ralf is still dead. 20 mins i spent trying to jump start it. is that usual or would you suggest battery's fekked?
when i first turned key it was like it was half dead, after 20 mins it was turning over a bit faster but still no joy.
How are you connecting the leads Steve
Positive to positive, negative on my good car and hooked it up on Ralf at the front of the plenum. it always sparks so it seems good place. besides that, if i turned the key in ralf before :D nothing happened at all. no electrics no nowt
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
Hahahaha cheers JC.
However, Ralf is still dead. 20 mins i spent trying to jump start it. is that usual or would you suggest battery's fekked?
when i first turned key it was like it was half dead, after 20 mins it was turning over a bit faster but still no joy.
How are you connecting the leads Steve
Positive to positive, negative on my good car and hooked it up on Ralf at the front of the plenum. it always sparks so it seems good place. besides that, if i turned the key in ralf before :D nothing happened at all. no electrics no nowt
Sounds like "Ralfs" battery is very flat breaked :-\
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
Hahahaha cheers JC.
However, Ralf is still dead. 20 mins i spent trying to jump start it. is that usual or would you suggest battery's fekked?
when i first turned key it was like it was half dead, after 20 mins it was turning over a bit faster but still no joy.
How are you connecting the leads Steve
Positive to positive, negative on my good car and hooked it up on Ralf at the front of the plenum. it always sparks so it seems good place. besides that, if i turned the key in ralf before :D nothing happened at all. no electrics no nowt
Sounds like "Ralfs" battery is very flat breaked :-\
Cheers Henry. I'll get to Halfrauds tonight. Any idea on what battery I need to ask for?
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Better of getting one from VX on TC. :y
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Better of getting one from VX on TC. :y
Excellent. Cheers Albs. can't get on the site at the mo. any idea how much?
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I would use the engine lifting eye by the dipstick for the 'neg' connection. The plenum is a not a great (read bad) place to connect to as about the best neg route is via the throttle cable! (eeekkkk!)
Also, raise the revs to a few K on the running vehicle for a few minutes to get some charge into the Omega battery before attempting a start.
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TC lists 7 different batteries from £37 to £78. Depends which one you need.Might be worth dropping AndyC a PM with reg. number. :y
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Mark, did put a few revs on for a bit. I'll try the lifting eye before I purchase a new battery. Thanks!
Albs, I will mail him.
cheers folks
:-* :-*
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Mark, did put a few revs on for a bit. I'll try the lifting eye before I purchase a new battery. Thanks!
Albs, I will mail him.
cheers folks
:-* :-*
It often appears that the plenum is a big bit of metal well connected to the block but, its actualy attached to the inlet manifold and inlet bridge....the inlet bridge is plastic!
That leves the EGR pipe on 2.5/3.0's and the throttle cable on 2.5/3.0's
I.e. not ideal!
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
;D
I must admit when posts like these come up it gives something to look forward to and read how its going .....is it RALF your working on or DAISY at the mo :-\ :-\
I drained all my excess oil into the plug wells :-X didnt do any harm but it did cough and splutter a bit till warmed up ;D
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Just called Vx. They're saying I need 70amp. and that will be £58.63 on TC.
That sound correct? :-\
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
;D
I must admit when posts like these come up it gives something to look forward to and read how its going .....is it RALF your working on or DAISY at the mo :-\ :-\
I drained all my excess oil into the plug wells :-X didnt do any harm but it did cough and splutter a bit till warmed up ;D
C heers mate. nice to hear peeps are interested in the progress :y
Yep, this is ralf lol
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Try a proper jump start before condeming the battery :y
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Try a proper jump start before condeming the battery :y
Ok mate, will do :y :y :y
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Hurry up and do it then Webby, don't keep us in suspenders!
Hahahaha cheers JC.
However, Ralf is still dead. 20 mins i spent trying to jump start it. is that usual or would you suggest battery's fekked?
when i first turned key it was like it was half dead, after 20 mins it was turning over a bit faster but still no joy.
How are you connecting the leads Steve
Positive to positive, negative on my good car and hooked it up on Ralf at the front of the plenum. it always sparks so it seems good place. besides that, if i turned the key in ralf before :D nothing happened at all. no electrics no nowt
Sounds like "Ralfs" battery is very flat breaked :-\
Cheers Henry. I'll get to Halfrauds tonight. Any idea on what battery I need to ask for?
Not one they sell....
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Mark, did put a few revs on for a bit. I'll try the lifting eye before I purchase a new battery. Thanks!
Albs, I will mail him.
cheers folks
:-* :-*
It often appears that the plenum is a big bit of metal well connected to the block but, its actualy attached to the inlet manifold and inlet bridge....the inlet bridge is plastic!
That leves the EGR pipe on 2.5/3.0's and the throttle cable on 2.5/3.0's
I.e. not ideal!
Not to mention all the rubber seals, though the bolts probably bypass these...
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Cheers TB. Going to my mam's at 5 to do it properly ;)
how long do you reckon i should give it before condemning the batt?
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Mark, did put a few revs on for a bit. I'll try the lifting eye before I purchase a new battery. Thanks!
Albs, I will mail him.
cheers folks
:-* :-*
It often appears that the plenum is a big bit of metal well connected to the block but, its actualy attached to the inlet manifold and inlet bridge....the inlet bridge is plastic!
That leves the EGR pipe on 2.5/3.0's and the throttle cable on 2.5/3.0's
I.e. not ideal!
Not to mention all the rubber seals, though the bolts probably bypass these...
Taxi Al's car had a live plenum following the coil pack suppressor connection being mistaken for a ground, so clearly it's floating when there's no throttle cable. I suspect there'd have been some fireworks if it had. ;D
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Update
Ok then chaps. First of all, thanks to all who suggested I was jump starting badly. It started after 2 mins when I put the cable on the eye at the back of the plenum :y :y :y :y :y
When it started it still goes ''dugga, dugga, dugga'' although it did seem a quieter ''dugga'' than last time although still noisy.
i'm thinking the only misfire related thing now is the disspac although i was texting ralf (the oof member, not the car ;D) and he said the pac was fine before he had the CC's done.
i'm going to get a dispac and if that still don't cure it i'm defo not spending anymore dosh on it. i shall simply run through the rest of the jobs and as long as when i start it up again it still runs i'll assume i've done it all ok ;D
now, this poses another question. if i'd done a bad CC gasket job how long before i got the major oil leak? i ran it for 5 mins. would i see the leak in this time?
cheers all
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Are you ABSOLUTELY sure you got the plug leads connected to the dis pack correctly? (remembering that the 2-4-6 bank is not obvious!)
Any fault codes?
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Are you ABSOLUTELY sure you got the plug leads connected to the dis pack correctly? (remembering that the 2-4-6 bank is not obvious!)
Any fault codes?
This is how I'm wiring it up :)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/PlenumtoDis.png)
(sweet drawing, I know ;D)
As for fault codes I was waiting to see if this got sorted first I'll paperclip at the wekend ;)
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It should be:
1 - 3 - 5
C - - - - - -
4 - 6 - 2
hence its connected up wrong and hence the miss fire!
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Its simple, the setup works on the waisted spark principle e.g. it fires one cylinder close to top dead centre on the compression stroke and another one which is top dead centre on the exhaust stroke.
As we have six cylinders and the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 we get
| Compression | Exhaust |
| 1 | 4 |
| 2 | 5 |
| 3 | 6 |
| 4 | 1 |
| 5 | 2 |
| 6 | 3 |
So if we now consider the coil pack we get
1-3-5
4-6-2
Simples.......but not obvious!
As per the above.
Remember that if there should be a difference of '3' between opposing ends of the three coils.
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It should be:
1 - 3 - 5
C - - - - - -
4 - 6 - 2
hence its connected up wrong and hence the miss fire!
ok now I'm confused.... i just connected them up as per the numbers on the disspac as you can see in this photo. the connector is at the other end
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/IMG065.jpg)
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ps, sorry not trying to fry anyone's brain but i don't understand how i've put them together wrong when i've put them in their respective corresponding slots
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my bad, but your connections are still wrong ;D
5 - 3 - 1
C - - - - - -
2 - 6 - 4
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If you have connected them as per your drawing, then they are wrong.
You can see on the dis pack the 4 - 6 - 2 ....which is fine but, they should have 1 - 3 - 5 opposite.....
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Lets start with a simple question......is the dis pack loom connector on the right or the left hand side? (it should be on the left)?
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Lets start with a simple question......is the dis pack loom connector on the right or the left hand side? (it should be on the left)?
lol sorry about this :-[
if it's screwed down it's on the left as you look at the engine.
as said, i connected them up correctly (ie, all correct leads to all corresponding disspac numbers) i just think my drawings wrong.
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Ok, with the connector on the left it should be:
5 - 3 - 1
C - - - - - -
2 - 6 - 4
So check it carefuly as its the most common thing to get wrong and would casue the symptoms you have......and you can check it without taking anything off (although you might scratch your hands a bit!)
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the only misfire it had was on tick over as soon as i drove it . it was fine not a miss on acceleration i overtook two cars and it didnt miss a beat that was two days before cam gaskets were done :y :y :y
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Ok, with the connector on the left it should be:
5 - 3 - 1
C - - - - - -
2 - 6 - 4
So check it carefuly as its the most common thing to get wrong and would casue the symptoms you have......and you can check it without taking anything off (although you might scratch your hands a bit!)
Thanks Mark.
I haven't screwed it down. it sat on the plenum when i fired her up (so i could easily swap disspacs if it needed a new one) so i can clearly see the numbers. ill absolutely double check that they're on the right place and they're all popped in correctly. other than that, i dont know what to do other than buy a new disspac.
i will check codes but even my old man said it sounds like a cylinder out.
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Or a duff HT lead if you haven't already fitted new ones :y
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Or a duff HT lead if you haven't already fitted new ones :y
yep, all new leads mate :y
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here's the disspac, as i said i just got the 1-3-5 the wrong way round on the drawing ;)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/Photo-0065.jpg)
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i now wish i never had the cam gaskets done it was fine till then :y :y :y
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i now wish i never had the cam gaskets done it was fine till then :y :y :y
We'll sort it bro. ;)
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only other thing....
when fitting the new leads to the spark plugs i simply put them in in length order as there were no numbers on the leads. could that have buggered it? :-\
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Might have.Check the end on the dispack,then mark the number on the lead.Then see if they ae on the correct plugs. :y
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Might have.Check the end on the dispack,then mark the number on the lead.Then see if they ae on the correct plugs. :y
Cheers Albs, i take it the leads themselves aren't already labelled (if they are i've missed that :-[) and therefore as long as the corresponding lead is attached to the correct number on the disspac then i can use any lead?
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Some leads are numbered, some arent.You can use any one as long as it is in the right place both ends,and obviously is long enough. :y
If they are already in place according to length,it might be easier to make sure the plug lead from number 1 cylinder (for example) is plugged into number one on the dispac.If not move it to the correct place on the dispac rather than move the spark plug end to a different cylinder.Hope that makes sense. ;)
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Some leads are numbered, some arent.You can use any one as long as it is in the right place both ends,and obviously is long enough. :y
thats what i thought... cheers albus :y