Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: mark3 on 04 March 2012, 21:53:48
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Hiya guys, having trouble with oil leak from 2.5 V6 cam covers...
I fitted some ally cam covers from a vectra to replace the dam silly plastic ones just over a year ago and after i fitted them (with new seals) the o/s one leaked more than it did before so after removing it again and applying a shed load of silicon it stopped. Now recently the n/s cover started to leak so i replaced the seal/gasket for new and you guessed it... it now leaks worse than before....Arghhhhhhhhh
Dam and blast!
So before i remove it again and empty half a tube of silicon onto it like i did the o/s i thought i would ask if any of you guys have had this problem and what did you do to cure it?
Also i hear Vauxhall cam cover seals are the only sure way of stopping the cam covers from leaking but is there any truth in this?
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Hiya guys, having trouble with oil leak from 2.5 V6 cam covers...
I fitted some ally cam covers from a vectra to replace the dam silly plastic ones just over a year ago and after i fitted them (with new seals) the o/s one leaked more than it did before so after removing it again and applying a shed load of silicon it stopped. Now recently the n/s cover started to leak so i replaced the seal/gasket for new and you guessed it... it now leaks worse than before....Arghhhhhhhhh
Dam and blast!
So before i remove it again and empty half a tube of silicon onto it like i did the o/s i thought i would ask if any of you guys have had this problem and what did you do to cure it?
Also i hear Vauxhall cam cover seals are the only sure way of stopping the cam covers from leaking but is there any truth in this?
Easy solution is bin the veccy covers, revert back to the Omega ones and use genuine gaskets "O" rings & black sealant
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Hiya guys, having trouble with oil leak from 2.5 V6 cam covers...
I fitted some ally cam covers from a vectra to replace the dam silly plastic ones just over a year ago and after i fitted them (with new seals) the o/s one leaked more than it did before so after removing it again and applying a shed load of silicon it stopped. Now recently the n/s cover started to leak so i replaced the seal/gasket for new and you guessed it... it now leaks worse than before....Arghhhhhhhhh
Dam and blast!
So before i remove it again and empty half a tube of silicon onto it like i did the o/s i thought i would ask if any of you guys have had this problem and what did you do to cure it?
Also i hear Vauxhall cam cover seals are the only sure way of stopping the cam covers from leaking but is there any truth in this?
Easy solution is bin the veccy covers, revert back to the Omega ones and use genuine gaskets "O" rings & black sealant
^^^^^^^^ Wot he said ;) ;) And clean the breathers properly and thoroughly ;) ;)
Oh... And pray that the change of covers and excessive use of RTV Sealant hasn't caused a more major seal to fail ;)
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Do the job properly ... once ..... and the guide plus real covers will sort the problem for you... :)
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Not an expert but I'm doing this Saturday using Mark's excellent guide.
According to that genuine should ALWAYS be used but there is a note at the bottom of the guide that says you can mess it up and cause a huge oil leak. Worth a read ;)
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Hiya guys, having trouble with oil leak from 2.5 V6 cam covers...
I fitted some ally cam covers from a vectra to replace the dam silly plastic ones just over a year ago and after i fitted them (with new seals) the o/s one leaked more than it did before so after removing it again and applying a shed load of silicon it stopped. Now recently the n/s cover started to leak so i replaced the seal/gasket for new and you guessed it... it now leaks worse than before....Arghhhhhhhhh
Dam and blast!
So before i remove it again and empty half a tube of silicon onto it like i did the o/s i thought i would ask if any of you guys have had this problem and what did you do to cure it?
Also i hear Vauxhall cam cover seals are the only sure way of stopping the cam covers from leaking but is there any truth in this?
Easy solution is bin the veccy covers, revert back to the Omega ones and use genuine gaskets "O" rings & black sealant
^^^^^^^^ Wot he said ;) ;) And clean the breathers properly and thoroughly ;) ;)
Oh... And pray that the change of covers and excessive use of RTV Sealant hasn't caused a more major seal to fail ;)
Im not that stupid, lol
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Every thing must be clean clean clean!!!! it's bad enough doing the job once as you may well know, i use a good £4 on fuel and loads of wipe to clean everything when i do them!!
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Right, the leak was from the left side of the n/s cam cover right at the front so just above the front exhaust port, i got no idea why it didnt seal?
Removed the cam cover, cleaned everything bone dry using brake cleaner on a rag to de grease AGAIN and fitted it back on, this time, a healthy beed of RTV over the whole seal.
And
Its now leaking from the rear where it was to start with a few weeks back???
the reason i got vectra ally covers to start with was after going through 3 pairs, the original ond two other, of plastic covers i got fed up not being able to stop them leaking, the ally covers worked straight away and have been fine for 18 months untill this instance.
So next on the cards is genuine Vauxhall seals and il see if that works.
But on the plus side today i got a n/s/r puncture repaired and had the tracking adjusted as it was toeing out and castor angle checked which didnt need sorting any more so thats good news!!!
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has anyone mentioned the crankcase breather cleaning malarky.
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When I did the CC gaskets on ''Ralf'' last weekend i found the previous mechanic had absolutely covered the gasket all over in sealant. not the proper black stuff; i took it all off and had a pile of what looked like a take away chow mein in the bin.
put it all back together. no leaks. no probs :y i had a bit of smoke, prob from previous job but other than that it was great. so use genuine. and apply sealant where the guide says! :y
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has anyone mentioned the crankcase breather cleaning malarky.
+ 1...... it wont matter how often you change the rocker cover gaskets if the breathers are blocked , it will still keep pizzin out oil fiding the weakest point . Very well worth cleaning all the breathers ;)
hth
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Right, the leak was from the left side of the n/s cam cover right at the front so just above the front exhaust port, i got no idea why it didnt seal?
Removed the cam cover, cleaned everything bone dry using brake cleaner on a rag to de grease AGAIN and fitted it back on, this time, a healthy beed of RTV over the whole seal.
And
Its now leaking from the rear where it was to start with a few weeks back???
the reason i got vectra ally covers to start with was after going through 3 pairs, the original ond two other, of plastic covers i got fed up not being able to stop them leaking, the ally covers worked straight away and have been fine for 18 months untill this instance.
So next on the cards is genuine Vauxhall seals and il see if that works.
But on the plus side today i got a n/s/r puncture repaired and had the tracking adjusted as it was toeing out and castor angle checked which didnt need sorting any more so thats good news!!!
Guess you don't carry out work for customers with Omegas then ! ??? ;)
Read the expert's howto on here mate :y
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Right, the leak was from the left side of the n/s cam cover right at the front so just above the front exhaust port, i got no idea why it didnt seal?
Removed the cam cover, cleaned everything bone dry using brake cleaner on a rag to de grease AGAIN and fitted it back on, this time, a healthy beed of RTV over the whole seal.
And
Its now leaking from the rear where it was to start with a few weeks back???
the reason i got vectra ally covers to start with was after going through 3 pairs, the original ond two other, of plastic covers i got fed up not being able to stop them leaking, the ally covers worked straight away and have been fine for 18 months untill this instance.
So next on the cards is genuine Vauxhall seals and il see if that works.
But on the plus side today i got a n/s/r puncture repaired and had the tracking adjusted as it was toeing out and castor angle checked which didnt need sorting any more so thats good news!!!
Guess you don't carry out work for customers with Omegas then ! ??? ;)
Read the expert's howto on here mate :y
No i dont, i specialise in old school jap performance cars, and an oil leak as straight forward as this on them would be simple job prob cos the engineering is so much bloody better to start with.
I just dont see how such a simple thing can be so hard to cure, and i been doing this for a living since 1979 so its not like im new to it either.... as i said next step is genuine Vauxhall cam cover seals...
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Right, the leak was from the left side of the n/s cam cover right at the front so just above the front exhaust port, i got no idea why it didnt seal?
Removed the cam cover, cleaned everything bone dry using brake cleaner on a rag to de grease AGAIN and fitted it back on, this time, a healthy beed of RTV over the whole seal.
And
Its now leaking from the rear where it was to start with a few weeks back???
the reason i got vectra ally covers to start with was after going through 3 pairs, the original ond two other, of plastic covers i got fed up not being able to stop them leaking, the ally covers worked straight away and have been fine for 18 months untill this instance.
So next on the cards is genuine Vauxhall seals and il see if that works.
But on the plus side today i got a n/s/r puncture repaired and had the tracking adjusted as it was toeing out and castor angle checked which didnt need sorting any more so thats good news!!!
Guess you don't carry out work for customers with Omegas then ! ??? ;)
Read the expert's howto on here mate :y
No i dont, i specialise in old school jap performance cars, and an oil leak as straight forward as this on them would be simple job prob cos the engineering is so much bloody better to start with.
I just dont see how such a simple thing can be so hard to cure, and i been doing this for a living since 1979 so its not like im new to it either.... as i said next step is genuine Vauxhall cam cover seals...
As I said read the howto on here mate - ^^that should have been your first step with the standard plastic covers, use of proper sealant (sparingly not liberally), and correct torques on bolts, together with breather cleaning. Not taking the p*ss mate but trying to help :y
Use of the alloy Vectra covers with blocked breathers will blow more expensive seals :(
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I just had a look at the how too guide in case there was something i missed, but no, its as straight forward as it can be.... the breathers are clear so its not that.
I did head gaskets on this about 30k miles ago along with new oil cooler, radiator, alternator too (then water pump, cam belt and tensioners last year) and the breathers where in a terrible state, they got extensively cleaned up then and i keep my eye on them because of that.
Im guessing the plastic covers are fitted in case of blocked breather trouble, which due to some re design on the Vectra engine isnt an issue any longer? but thats just a guess.....
Either that or being plastic they was crap so got replaced with ally, lol
Anyway im off to the beach tomorrow for 7 days so il get it done when i return im sure BUT it does seem silly that such a simple job gives so much grief!
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if i do the job again in the future i'd suggest covering the cams during application of the sealant.... that passenger side at the front was a nightmare to apply the sealant and i caught the tube of sealant on one of the cams... obviously attended to it straight away but a cover from the start would have been best imo ;)
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It doesnt give any grief at all if you follow the guide to the letter.Ive never had a leak after replacing the gaskets.Standard cam covers are fine.Always use genuine gaskets.only use the specified sealant.Only use sealant as directed in the guide. Seemples. ;)
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It doesnt give any grief at all if you follow the guide to the letter.Ive never had a leak after replacing the gaskets.Standard cam covers are fine.Always use genuine gaskets.only use the specified sealant.Only use sealant as directed in the guide. Seemples. ;)
As I said mate :y
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Yep. :y...........just trying to reinforce the point. :-X
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Right.... its seems its solved!
No more leaks.
i had a look at some genuine Vauxhall cam cover seals and they was no different at all the ones i have used in the past BUT £45 a side??? sod that!
I got another seal, removed half the top of the dam engine, again lol, cleaned everything up spotless, squeezed a beed of silicon into the groove on the cam cover, pressed the seal into the silicon and then aplied a nice bead of silicon to the other side of the seal, it was when i was tightening up the 8 cover bolts i noticed the bolts over the lower/exhaust cam front and rear thread wasnt too good, how i missed this previously i dont know?
Anyhow after fitting some slightly longer bolts and seeing the cam cover pull down some more it seems all is well, thank heavens.
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About £25.00 per side for OE ones
Cheers
Andy
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Right.... its seems its solved!
No more leaks.
i had a look at some genuine Vauxhall cam cover seals and they was no different at all the ones i have used in the past BUT £45 a side??? sod that!
I got another seal, removed half the top of the dam engine, again lol, cleaned everything up spotless, squeezed a beed of silicon into the groove on the cam cover, pressed the seal into the silicon and then aplied a nice bead of silicon to the other side of the seal, it was when i was tightening up the 8 cover bolts i noticed the bolts over the lower/exhaust cam front and rear thread wasnt too good, how i missed this previously i dont know?
Anyhow after fitting some slightly longer bolts and seeing the cam cover pull down some more it seems all is well, thank heavens.
Is this post a bit of a wind up / bait? ::) :y
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Is this post a bit of a wind up / bait? ::) :y
I doubt we've heard the last of this... ;)
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Dont know what to say tbh. :-X :o
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Right.... its seems its solved!
No more leaks.
i had a look at some genuine Vauxhall cam cover seals and they was no different at all the ones i have used in the past BUT £45 a side??? sod that!
I got another seal, removed half the top of the dam engine, again lol, cleaned everything up spotless, squeezed a beed of silicon into the groove on the cam cover, pressed the seal into the silicon and then aplied a nice bead of silicon to the other side of the seal, it was when i was tightening up the 8 cover bolts i noticed the bolts over the lower/exhaust cam front and rear thread wasnt too good, how i missed this previously i dont know?
Anyhow after fitting some slightly longer bolts and seeing the cam cover pull down some more it seems all is well, thank heavens.
You can lead a horse to water ::) ::) ::)
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How many times does it have to be said on one thread? :o
Pattern do not last!
It does not matter what it looks like, can you tell the difference between a 1,000 mile and 40,000 mile cam belt tensioner?
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The pattern seal/gasket on the o/s has lasted fine for 38k miles and is still ok, the problem was two of the bolts over the exhaust cam not tightening correctly not the gasket :'( and also the idiot who didnt sus that out straight away, lol
And at £45 a side there way too much money when i get labour for free :y
Anyway its done now, no more leaks ;D
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The pattern seal/gasket on the o/s has lasted fine for 38k miles and is still ok, the problem was two of the bolts over the exhaust cam not tightening correctly not the gasket :'( and also the idiot who didnt sus that out straight away, lol
And at £45 a side there way too much money when i get labour for free :y
Anyway its done now, no more leaks ;D
They're not £45 a side ;)
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About £25.00 per side for OE ones
Cheers
Andy
Is that the price on TC and does that include the o rings :y
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About £25.00 per side for OE ones
Cheers
Andy
Is that the price on TC and does that include the o rings :y
Its much cheaper than trade price. IIRC the cam cover gaskets aren't part of the trade club ;)
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Price from AndyC was about £50 a set when I did mine IIRC.
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About £25.00 per side for OE ones
Cheers
Andy
Is that the price on TC and does that include the o rings :y
Its much cheaper than trade price. IIRC the cam cover gaskets aren't part of the trade club ;)
:y
Price from AndyC was about £50 a set when I did mine IIRC.
Not needing them just at the minute , had a check on them when doing the bridge seals but handy to know the price ;)
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Will that be another job you need a hand with lol ;D
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What always interests me about this 'problem' is why nobody is prepared to ask why such a finicky, complicated design was considered acceptable for such a simple task? It's typical German engineering, complex and reliant on accurate assembly, but often offers no worthwhile improvement over what everyone else would do.
I can understand the OP's frustration with this, as you don't find troublesome oil leaks on Japanese engines, and if they're down to worn seals you simply replace them. None of this use the annointed gaskets and follow the witchcraft procedure to make sure that it's good for another couple of years! It's not just Vx V6s, BMW straight 6s suffer from oil filled plug wells, and it's hardly uncommon for a Ford engine either!
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What always interests me about this 'problem' is why nobody is prepared to ask why such a finicky, complicated design was considered acceptable for such a simple task? It's typical German engineering, complex and reliant on accurate assembly, but often offers no worthwhile improvement over what everyone else would do.
I can understand the OP's frustration with this, as you don't find troublesome oil leaks on Japanese engines, and if they're down to worn seals you simply replace them. None of this use the annointed gaskets and follow the witchcraft procedure to make sure that it's good for another couple of years! It's not just Vx V6s, BMW straight 6s suffer from oil filled plug wells, and it's hardly uncommon for a Ford engine either!
It's not .. genuine seals, fitted properly last a very long time ... the key words here are genuine, and properly. My V6 is on 114000 miles and only its second set of cam cover gaskets, ..... but the job was done correctly when done at 74000 miles .. and then it was only a very slight weep .. but I'm fussy
Keep the breathers clean, change the oil regularly, and you won't have any problems ... it is called maintenance .... .. the art of keeping mechanicals in good fettle :)
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Will that be another job you need a hand with lol ;D
Have you got a spare set ;) im leaving the spanner's well and truly alone now till i get fed up of driving it :P
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What always interests me about this 'problem' is why nobody is prepared to ask why such a finicky, complicated design was considered acceptable for such a simple task? It's typical German engineering, complex and reliant on accurate assembly, but often offers no worthwhile improvement over what everyone else would do.
I can understand the OP's frustration with this, as you don't find troublesome oil leaks on Japanese engines, and if they're down to worn seals you simply replace them. None of this use the annointed gaskets and follow the witchcraft procedure to make sure that it's good for another couple of years! It's not just Vx V6s, BMW straight 6s suffer from oil filled plug wells, and it's hardly uncommon for a Ford engine either!
It's not .. genuine seals, fitted properly last a very long time ... the key words here are genuine, and properly. My V6 is on 114000 miles and only its second set of cam cover gaskets, ..... but the job was done correctly when done at 74000 miles .. and then it was only a very slight weep .. but I'm fussy
Keep the breathers clean, change the oil regularly, and you won't have any problems ... it is called maintenance .... .. the art of keeping mechanicals in good fettle :)
Fair point and I do agree that genuine parts and proper work will do BUT some off-topic thoughts... What is it with these engines that make them leak? I have had e.g. several Toyota 4A-FE- engined cars each with several hundreds of thousands kilometers on the clock without leaking camcovers or anything else leaking... So, IMHO and IME well designed and properly maintained car engine should not leak anything with less than 200 000 km on the clock.
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Thing that gets me is they did an engine undate in 2001 and didn't sort it...wtf, and it's not the odd one here and there it's ALL of the v6's..every single one.
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Senator S6 engines never had this issue ::)
If I'm honest I think the straight 6 was a better engine, chain no faffing with belts, it just need updating, removing dizzy cap and updating the rams.
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And they were more economical aswell,used to get 38mpg on a run at 80mph constant speed in my senator
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And they were more economical aswell,used to get 38mpg on a run at 80mph constant speed in my senator
and what "emissions" legislation existed then ??
and what did a senator weigh ???
apples and pears I'm afraid .. :(
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Tunnie and Martin - spot on.Entwood has made some relevant points imo,particularily regarding emissions - Senator weight,similar to Omega iirc - but the S6 engine was a better engine in almost every way ime. :y
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And the 12 valve was better than the 24v. Not so powerful, but a better chain. Bombproof.
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Straight six should be when you think how many years of development. You can trace it's routes back to the early 60's at least. I've got a soft spot for this engine (that's why I've got two) I also had a 2.6 12 valve with the dual ram set up which I thought was excellent. Mind you compared to the v6 it is a bit of a boat anchor. I feel the v6 used in the Omega was rushed. I also feel the design was for front wheel drive applications and didn't take well to being mounted longitudinally. However when it's on song and performing as it should It's so silky smooth and gutsy. I love the rush it get's when the dual rams go for top end power at around 4,5k RPM. Reminds me of the 24v straight 6 when it clears it's throat at 4k RPM just more refined.
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But still not as quick as the other green machine you have in the back of the garage, must be about time to get your mojo back and get her running again :y
Andy