Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tigers_gonads on 02 May 2012, 09:40:33
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Still running sh*t :'(
I pulled the plug on the Maf last night to see if it made any difference.
The revs dropped to about 700 but it still was missing and backfiring
I've just pulled this of the car.
Can anybody see if there is a problem here ?
Date and time> 02/05/2012. 09:1939
Workshop information:
hkj
Selected model> 1998 (W) Omega-B Engine X 30 XE
Control Unit:
KW82 protocol initialized.
ECU ID= AF 90566817 261204589 1037357874 ??
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1D
Battery Voltage 14.2 V
Immobiliser Signal Received
Immobiliser Active
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.66 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 1.07 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 27 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 1.75 V
Coolant Temperature 63 °C
Intake Air Temperature 3.76 V
Intake Air Temperature 14 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Manual Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch P - N 0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 1 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.76 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 722 mV
O2 Sensor 2 107 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Rich
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 133 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 140
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 127 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 126 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Active
Engine Speed 979 RPM
Idle Air Control 178 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 120 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 90 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 124 Steps
Desired Idle Air 9 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 22 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 900 RPM
Injection Pulse 3.8 ms
Engine Load Signal 1.5 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
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Coolant Temperature 63 °C
How long had the car been running when you took this snapshot?
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Look at you idle air as well. Desired 9kg/h Actual 20 kg/h. Maybe pointing to a air leak.
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Look at you idle air as well. Desired 9kg/h Actual 20 kg/h. Maybe pointing to a air leak.
I'd say it's probably the throttle or the ICV not closing fully. If the air was leaking in, it wouldn't register on the measured signal from the MAF, so the reading would be low.
EGR is always a possibility, of course. Might be worth blanking it off to see if that helps?
Coolant temperature is low, as said. When posting live data it always helps if the engine is fully warmed up because various fiddles are applied during warmup which change the picture completely.
.. if it doesn't warm up any more than that, it's overcooling, of course.. or the temperature sensor has had it.
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I'll take another snapshot later after its being for a run.
The Icv is a spare that I had in a box in the loft.
The original went tits up after I changed the coilpack. (car wouldn't run)
I have had a good spray around with carb cleaner but I couldn't find any air leaks.
I also pulled the pipe off the ICV and nipped it up. The car stalled instantly.
Would any of this cause the backfire that I have been getting for about 9 months :-[
It started off very slight but since i've been messing, the engine hardly runs on lpg and pops and farts on petrol :'( :'(
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I'll take another snapshot later after its being for a run.
The Icv is a spare that I had in a box in the loft.
The original went tits up after I changed the coilpack. (car wouldn't run)
I have had a good spray around with carb cleaner but I couldn't find any air leaks.
I also pulled the pipe off the ICV and nipped it up. The car stalled instantly.
Would any of this cause the backfire that I have been getting for about 9 months :-[
It started off very slight but since i've been messing, the engine hardly runs on lpg and pops and farts on petrol :'( :'(
Instead of a static snapshot, can you do us a live recording of a good drive (after it's fully up to temp) - this would really assist with diagnosis. The software you have which cannot be mentioned should have ability to output to CSV...
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I'll take another snapshot later after its being for a run.
The Icv is a spare that I had in a box in the loft.
The original went tits up after I changed the coilpack. (car wouldn't run)
I have had a good spray around with carb cleaner but I couldn't find any air leaks.
I also pulled the pipe off the ICV and nipped it up. The car stalled instantly.
Would any of this cause the backfire that I have been getting for about 9 months :-[
It started off very slight but since i've been messing, the engine hardly runs on lpg and pops and farts on petrol :'( :'(
Instead of a static snapshot, can you do us a live recording of a good drive (after it's fully up to temp) - this would really assist with diagnosis. The software you have which cannot be mentioned should have ability to output to CSV...
I've never worked out how to even put pickys on here james if you can tell me what you would look for, i'll make notes and put in on here :-[
Just one thing that I do remember about all this popping, when it first started it always happened around 1200 rpm and around 4000 rpm. One the revs was past these points, the engine pulled like a train :-\
Its only in the past few weeks that it has got really bad.
Also the plugs was changed maybe 1000 miles ago.
When I removed the old plugs, No1 and No4 was damaged hence me going for a coilpack change :-\
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Plugs damaged? Hmm.... I'm wondering if rather than being an HT issue, those cylinders have been running too lean (And hence getting hot) due to poor fuelling of the LPG system...
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Plug 1's ceramic had a crack in it
Plug 4's centre electrode had blown away :o
Wouldn't it have affected all the cylinders ?
Also last month, I did a 280 mile round trip too see daz for a cambelt.
Other then a bit of a air in the system, the car run great
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Was the issue present before the work? Not for one minute saying there's a problem with what was done, but the more data we can collect the better.
Electrode gone ..... does imply overheating in that chamber.
Do you have the LPG software? What has that got to say for itself?
When did this start, exactly?
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Was the issue present before the work? Not for one minute saying there's a problem with what was done, but the more data we can collect the better.
Electrode gone ..... does imply overheating in that chamber.
Do you have the LPG software? What has that got to say for itself?
When did this start, exactly?
I'll go warm the car up and do another one :y
As for the timeline of symptoms ............... how long have you got ;D ;D
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Right, its a bit late to start revving the nuts off it now ( very young kids next door ), i'll do 2 snapshots at 2000 and 4500 rpm tomorrow and post them on here.
Timeline
First started getting slight backfiring 12 months ago.
Always seemed to be near side (bank 2,4,6)
The cat was rattleing so replaced both with aftermarket parts (yes I know ::))
Car seemed to be running ok so purchased lpg kit from Autogas and fitted it myself over june / july last year.
Started to run with a uneven idle and the revs would sometimes hold on for a second when you take your foot of the gas during august.
On startup when engine very cold, the revs would shoot up as far as 2000 rpm at first.
This would drop with a slight touch of the gas peddle.
The backfire started to happen more and more but once the revs past 2 and 4.5k, the car just flew :)
Gave it a good service about 1000 mile ago and found the plugs was knackerd.
Changed coilpack last week / 1 and 4 use the same third of the pack.
Noted that plug lead No1 was split so replaced that side with known good set.
Rebuilt it up only for it not to start.
Removed plug off Icv and the car started so replaced the valve with a spare I had.
Now, the car starts and idles at a minimum of 950 rpm.
If I have been driving, the revs may sit as high as 1300 rpm.
Car always fires up first turn of the key and is the same whether running on petrol or gas.
Hope this lot helps
Thank you :y
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O2 Sensor 1 722 mV
O2 Sensor 2 107 mV
What should the 02's be reading? The fact that they are so far apart must be a pointer???
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They switch constantly between 1V and 0V
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They switch constantly between 1V and 0V
Oh ok, within range then... ;)
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Not sure but should the Hall Sensor ie Cam Sensor be active with the engine running ?
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Not sure but should the Hall Sensor ie Cam Sensor be active with the engine running ?
These toggle rapidly between the two when running. Only really useful for static diagnosis.
Sounds to me like an ICV / sticking throttle body issue. If it's idling that high, the air is getting in somewhere, and, with the MAF reading quite high, it's not coming in through a leak.
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Not sure but should the Hall Sensor ie Cam Sensor be active with the engine running ?
These toggle rapidly between the two when running. Only really useful for static diagnosis.
Sounds to me like an ICV / sticking throttle body issue. If it's idling that high, the air is getting in somewhere, and, with the MAF reading quite high, it's not coming in through a leak.
Would this have anything to do with the backfire i'm getting at certain revs Kevin ?
I'm also going to blank off the MAP feed pipe later to see if I can isolate the LPG side from the petrol side.
Could scrubbing the throttle body with brake cleaner and a toothbrush have damaged it in some way ?
Anybody know what the resistance at the throttle pot should be with the body closed ?
The engine still has a 2.5 wiring loom on it so I had to leave the 2.5's throttle body on ;)
I'm away from the car at the mo so can't check till later :(
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Turned the key for the first time in a few days this morning.
Started first turn of the key.
Took swmbo to work and the car ran great.
No popping or misfiring or anything even thought the revs are still high :o
Seriously confused now.
Can anybody shine any light on this ?
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Throttle body removed from the plenum, left jammed open and sat in a sealed bucket of thinners over the weekend.
You could now eat your dinner of it.
Replaced the icv with another spare thanks to lincs rob :y
Car now idles at around 600 and responds to the throttle better but it is still running very lumpy and popping / backfiring at certain revs.
Since i've been swapping and changing bits, is it worth resetting the block data to see if that smooths things out a little then take it from there ?
Edit: just filled up with lpg and worked out the mpg.
I only got 12 mpg out of the last tank :(
Normally get around 22 :'( :'(
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did you get a fix on this??