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[tigers_gonads]

Still running sh*t 

I pulled the plug on the Maf last night to see if it made any difference.
The revs dropped to about 700 but it still was missing and backfiring

I've just pulled this of the car.
Can anybody see if there is a problem here ?



Date and time>   02/05/2012. 09:1939         
            
Workshop information:            
            
hkj            
            
            
Selected model>   1998 (W)   Omega-B   Engine   X 30 XE
            
Control Unit:             
            
            
KW82 protocol initialized.            
            
ECU ID= AF   90566817   261204589   1037357874   ??
            
            
Measuring blocks information:            
            
Identifier   1D         
Battery Voltage   14.2 V         
Immobiliser Signal   Received         
Immobiliser   Active         
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)   0.66 V         
Simulated Idle Position   Active         
Simulated Full Load Switch   Inactive         
Mass Air Flow Sensor   1.07 V         
Mass Air Flow Sensor   27 kg/h         
Coolant Temperature   1.75 V         
Coolant Temperature   63 °C         
Intake Air Temperature   3.76 V         
Intake Air Temperature   14 °C         
Engine Type   6 Cylinder         
Transmission Coding   Manual Transmission         
Park/Neutral Switch   P - N  0V         
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)   Inactive 0V         
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning)   Inactive 0V         
Telltale (Check Light)   Off 12V         
Fuel Pump Relay   Active 0V         
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre)   1 °CA         
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder)   Load         
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5   Load         
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder)   Load         
Knock Signal   Inactive         
Knock Retard   0 °CA         
Secondary Air Pump Relay   Inactive 12V         
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)   Inactive         
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)   0.76 V         
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve   0%         
O2 Sensor 1   722 mV         
O2 Sensor 2   107 mV         
O2 Sensor Loop 1   Closed         
O2 Sensor Loop 2   Closed         
Air/Fuel Ratio 1   Lean         
Air/Fuel Ratio 2   Rich         
O2-Loop 1 Integrator   133 Steps         
O2-Loop 2 Integrator   140         
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   128 Steps         
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)   128 Steps         
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map)   127 Steps         
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map)   126 Steps         
Hall Sensor   Inactive         
Engine Speed Pulse   Active         
Engine Speed   979 RPM         
Idle Air Control   178 Steps         
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control)   120 Steps         
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control)   90 Steps         
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control)   124 Steps         
Desired Idle Air   9 kg/h         
Actual Value Idle Air   22 kg/h         
Desired Engine Idle Speed   900 RPM         
Injection Pulse   3.8 ms         
Engine Load Signal   1.5 ms         
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)   0%         
Vehicle Speed Pulse   Not Received 12V         
Vehicle Speed   0 km/h         
Intake Manifold Valve 1   Inactive 12V         
Intake Manifold Valve 2   Inactive 12V         
Torque Control   Inactive         
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning)   Inactive 12V         
Diagnostic Request   Inactive 5V         

[JamesV6CDX]

Coolant Temperature   63 °C         

How long had the car been running when you took this snapshot?

[doz]

Look at you idle air as well. Desired 9kg/h Actual 20 kg/h. Maybe pointing to a air leak.

[Kevin Wood]

Look at you idle air as well. Desired 9kg/h Actual 20 kg/h. Maybe pointing to a air leak.

I'd say it's probably the throttle or the ICV not closing fully. If the air was leaking in, it wouldn't register on the measured signal from the MAF, so the reading would be low.

EGR is always a possibility, of course. Might be worth blanking it off to see if that helps?

Coolant temperature is low, as said. When posting live data it always helps if the engine is fully warmed up because various fiddles are applied during warmup which change the picture completely.

.. if it doesn't warm up any more than that, it's overcooling, of course.. or the temperature sensor has had it.

[tigers_gonads]

I'll take another snapshot later after its being for a run.

The Icv is a spare that I had in a box in the loft.
The original went tits up after I changed the coilpack. (car wouldn't run)
I have had a good spray around with carb cleaner but I couldn't find any air leaks.
I also pulled the pipe off the ICV and nipped it up. The car stalled instantly.

Would any of this cause the backfire that I have been getting for about 9 months 
It started off very slight but since i've been messing, the engine hardly runs on lpg and pops and farts on petrol 

[JamesV6CDX]

I'll take another snapshot later after its being for a run.

The Icv is a spare that I had in a box in the loft.
The original went tits up after I changed the coilpack. (car wouldn't run)
I have had a good spray around with carb cleaner but I couldn't find any air leaks.
I also pulled the pipe off the ICV and nipped it up. The car stalled instantly.

Would any of this cause the backfire that I have been getting for about 9 months 
It started off very slight but since i've been messing, the engine hardly runs on lpg and pops and farts on petrol 

Instead of a static snapshot, can you do us a live recording of a good drive (after it's fully up to temp) - this would really assist with diagnosis. The software you have which cannot be mentioned should have ability to output to CSV...

[tigers_gonads]

I'll take another snapshot later after its being for a run.

The Icv is a spare that I had in a box in the loft.
The original went tits up after I changed the coilpack. (car wouldn't run)
I have had a good spray around with carb cleaner but I couldn't find any air leaks.
I also pulled the pipe off the ICV and nipped it up. The car stalled instantly.

Would any of this cause the backfire that I have been getting for about 9 months 
It started off very slight but since i've been messing, the engine hardly runs on lpg and pops and farts on petrol 

Instead of a static snapshot, can you do us a live recording of a good drive (after it's fully up to temp) - this would really assist with diagnosis. The software you have which cannot be mentioned should have ability to output to CSV...

I've never worked out how to even put pickys on here james if you can tell me what you would look for, i'll make notes and put in on here 

Just one thing that I do remember about all this popping, when it first started it always happened around 1200 rpm and around 4000 rpm.  One the revs was past these points, the engine pulled like a train 
Its only in the past few weeks that it has got really bad.
Also the plugs was changed maybe 1000 miles ago.
When I removed the old plugs, No1 and No4 was damaged hence me going for a coilpack change 

[JamesV6CDX]

Plugs damaged? Hmm.... I'm wondering if rather than being an HT issue, those cylinders have been running too lean (And hence getting hot) due to poor fuelling of the LPG system...

[tigers_gonads]

Plug 1's ceramic had a crack in it
Plug 4's centre electrode had blown away 

Wouldn't it have affected all the cylinders ?

Also last month, I did a 280 mile round trip too see daz for a cambelt.
Other then a bit of a air in the system, the car run great

[JamesV6CDX]

Was the issue present before the work? Not for one minute saying there's a problem with what was done, but the more data we can collect the better.

Electrode gone ..... does imply overheating in that chamber.

Do you have the LPG software? What has that got to say for itself?

When did this start, exactly?

[tigers_gonads]

Was the issue present before the work? Not for one minute saying there's a problem with what was done, but the more data we can collect the better.

Electrode gone ..... does imply overheating in that chamber.

Do you have the LPG software? What has that got to say for itself?

When did this start, exactly?

I'll go warm the car up and do another one 
As for the timeline of symptoms ............... how long have you got 

[tigers_gonads]

Right, its a bit late to start revving the nuts off it now ( very young kids next door ), i'll do 2 snapshots at 2000 and 4500 rpm tomorrow and post them on here.

Timeline

First started getting slight backfiring 12 months ago.
Always seemed to be near side (bank 2,4,6)
The cat was rattleing so replaced both with aftermarket parts (yes I know  )
Car seemed to be running ok so purchased lpg kit from Autogas and fitted it myself over june / july last year.
Started to run with a uneven idle and the revs would sometimes hold on for a second when you take your foot of the gas during august.
On startup when engine very cold, the revs would shoot up as far as 2000 rpm at first.
This would drop with a slight touch of the gas peddle.
The backfire started to happen more and more but once the revs past 2 and 4.5k, the car just flew 

Gave it a good service about 1000 mile ago and found the plugs was knackerd.

Changed coilpack last week / 1 and 4 use the same third of the pack.
Noted that plug lead No1 was split so replaced that side with known good set.
Rebuilt it up only for it not to start.
Removed plug off Icv and the car started so replaced the valve with a spare I had.

Now, the car starts and idles at a minimum of 950 rpm.
If I have been driving, the revs may sit as high as 1300 rpm.

Car always fires up first turn of the key and is the same whether running on petrol or gas.

Hope this lot helps

Thank you   

[HockeyDave55]

O2 Sensor 1   722 mV         
O2 Sensor 2   107 mV         
What should the 02's be reading? The fact that they are so far apart must be a pointer???

[doz]

They switch constantly between 1V and 0V

[HockeyDave55]

They switch constantly between 1V and 0V

Oh ok, within range then...