Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: GaryC2.5td on 04 November 2012, 00:01:04

Title: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 04 November 2012, 00:01:04
i read this on a saab forum just wonderng is it true and what are eccentric cone bolts??..

"Why not look for rims with a 108x5 or 112x5 pattern and use bolts with eccentric cones?"
Title: change pcd
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 04 November 2012, 00:18:34
never mind sorry just found it ye should all have a look at this video im getting my self these straight away
changes ur pcd so cheaply http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVXljH8ms4s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVXljH8ms4s)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 04 November 2012, 00:34:40
you can also use aluminium alloy spacers (pcd converter) .. I use T6 mixture which is very safe..
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 04 November 2012, 07:19:57
Ya had them on my old jeep looked cool and all but spacers cause vibration in the steering. Plus they are expensive
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: omega3000 on 04 November 2012, 10:41:52
you can also use aluminium alloy spacers (pcd converter) .. I use T6 mixture which is very safe..

I had those on my ford cortina  :)

Interesting these wobble bolts but not much movement and didnt realise you were allowed to drill or fill and re-drill  :o , learn something every day  8)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 November 2012, 11:01:05
Looks like that guy's spurs were out of shot in the video. ::)

Filling and re-drilling? :o Opening out the holes with a countersink? Not on my car, thanks.

He completely ignored the centre bore diameter, too. Omega hubs rely on the centre bore to centre the wheel and take most of the lateral load from the bolts so they perform a clamping function only. A tight centre bore is why Omega wheels can be a challenge to remove sometimes. If the centre bore isn't a tight fit these loads are taken by the bolts and, if you use wobble bolts in addition, you have nothing to properly centre the wheel. Wobble will be the operative word.

I would only ever fit wheels of the correct PCD to any car of mine, avoiding all of these bodges, but then I've never felt the need to change the wheels anyway. :-\
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: omega3000 on 04 November 2012, 11:09:21
If i get this right then , so if you fit a spacer it comes with a centre bore  :-\ What was that about a 15mm minimum width on the spacer , would that be the new thread length for the re positioned bolts  :)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 04 November 2012, 13:00:11
Ya had them on my old jeep looked cool and all but spacers cause vibration in the steering. Plus they are expensive

if done properly, never..
 
the first set I had was steel and holes were not properly aligned..caused vibration .. but with second set I have no problem.. :) :y 
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 04 November 2012, 13:03:35
Looks like that guy's spurs were out of shot in the video. ::)

Filling and re-drilling? :o Opening out the holes with a countersink? Not on my car, thanks.

He completely ignored the centre bore diameter, too. Omega hubs rely on the centre bore to centre the wheel and take most of the lateral load from the bolts so they perform a clamping function only. A tight centre bore is why Omega wheels can be a challenge to remove sometimes. If the centre bore isn't a tight fit these loads are taken by the bolts and, if you use wobble bolts in addition, you have nothing to properly centre the wheel. Wobble will be the operative word.


 
I would only ever fit wheels of the correct PCD to any car of mine, avoiding all of these bodges, but then I've never felt the need to change the wheels anyway. :-\

agreed.. also  center bore must be a tight fit..
 
  (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/jantlastik/aluspacer3.jpg)
 
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: omega3000 on 04 November 2012, 14:09:45
Picture explained it :y
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 04 November 2012, 18:12:49
o i didnt realize wheel spacers could be got with center bore extruding thats prob why i had a bad vibration + the fact they were 3" spacers!! still might give the wobble bolts a go there not that dear and a wobble wont really bother me  :)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: TheBoy on 04 November 2012, 18:53:28
o i didnt realize wheel spacers could be got with center bore extruding thats prob why i had a bad vibration + the fact they were 3" spacers!! still might give the wobble bolts a go there not that dear and a wobble wont really bother me  :)
I hope it would, as in effect, you are reducing the grip levels at part of the revolution, and putting other components under more stress.
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 04 November 2012, 19:02:55
If i get this right then , so if you fit a spacer it comes with a centre bore  :-\ What was that about a 15mm minimum width on the spacer , would that be the new thread length for the re positioned bolts  :)

there are various spacers(pcd changers)..I think suitable size spacers with appropriate bore size can be easily found in UK market.. 15mm spacer thickness can be used .. there are even 10mm s out there.. but not sure for their strength.. I used 20 mm width.. but mine were custom built..
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: Broomies Mate on 04 November 2012, 19:04:30
o i didnt realize wheel spacers could be got with center bore extruding thats prob why i had a bad vibration + the fact they were 3" spacers!! still might give the wobble bolts a go there not that dear and a wobble wont really bother me  :)
I hope it would, as in effect, you are reducing the grip levels at part of the revolution, and putting other components under more stress.

+1

Under braking, you will lose efficiency momentarily per revolution causing your ABS to go completely mental and further reduce braking potential.

Your funeral.
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 04 November 2012, 23:14:08
I dono but I had the wobble in the stee ring in the jeep and that never affected the breaking nor did it affect the abs so don't think the wobble will still bother me  :P
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: dbug on 05 November 2012, 00:28:50
I dono but I had the wobble in the stee ring in the jeep and that never affected the breaking nor did it affect the abs so don't think the wobble will still bother me  :P

Sorry mate but you are talking out of your rse - a lot of different factors can induce steering wobble, and to introduce a known factor that could lead to wheel wobble is the height of stupidity - just hope I don't meet you on the road  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 November 2012, 00:52:01
I dono but I had the wobble in the stee ring in the jeep and that never affected the breaking nor did it affect the abs so don't think the wobble will still bother me  :P

Sorry mate but you are talking out of your rse - a lot of different factors can induce steering wobble, and to introduce a known factor that could lead to wheel wobble is the height of stupidity - just hope I don't meet you on the road  ::) ::) ::)

Was going to phrase it along the lines of 'And you wonder how your car ended up in a ditch...', but that'll do :-\
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 05 November 2012, 08:06:33
I didn't have a wobble in the steering of the omega  when it crashed I said I had a wobble in the jeep .. Guess I'm a rather stupid engineer so god ye bois don't have balls at all!  :) and plus why been so sour about it all  :-\
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: MaxV6 on 05 November 2012, 08:59:23
well, most engineers will look at the whole picture, assess the changes in behaviour arising from introducing a change in design,   and reject ideas that significantly detriment the actual performance.


I'm totally with the others,  it's a less than stellar idea,   and certain to induce early failure in other components,  not to mention also making the car less drivable,  and smooth....   and surely the point of a miggy is the smooth drivability and handling.....   all of which is effectively written out of the equation by this move?


but hey, it's you car,  and your insurance claim that will be rejected.   so you go ahead and have fun..... 

Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 05 November 2012, 21:24:49
Ok well thanks for all you comments but say if I got wobble bolts put on an alloy with 108 pcd then they have a centre bore of 60 and got it bored to the same as a omega alloy would it wobble then? cause it actually cant move then  :-\
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 November 2012, 21:41:01
You missed the point that wobble bolts are inherently flawed, regardless of either the PCD or bore size. :-\

I never said that you stacked the Omega due to wheel wobble ::)

Tell you what, fit wobble bolts, drive your car at stupid speeds over broken up roads and see how long your wheels hold up.  :-X
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 05 November 2012, 21:43:08
ok only asked!
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: 2woody on 07 November 2012, 20:31:36
Definitely not safe - don't even entertain the idea.
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: TheBoy on 07 November 2012, 20:50:04
I'd recommend just getting wheels that fit. Wobble bolts are a poor idea TBH.
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 07 November 2012, 22:25:56
or use spacers that convert pcd..
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: henryd on 07 November 2012, 22:30:42
I'd recommend just getting wheels that fit. Wobble bolts are a poor idea TBH.

I agree, I'm surprised they are even legal for onroad use :-\
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 08 November 2012, 13:04:25
I would prefer the right pcd wheels too. But there hard to get second hand well the ones I want.

And don't wheel spacers damage wheel bearings eventually.
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: tigers_gonads on 08 November 2012, 13:14:04
I would prefer the right pcd wheels too. But there hard to get second hand well the ones I want.

And don't wheel spacers damage wheel bearings eventually.


I'd say that any deviation from the manufactures spec will put greater stress on something somewhere.

Agree with what said on the wobble bolts though  ;)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 08 November 2012, 13:16:58
Wheel bearings are basically a service item ::)
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 08 November 2012, 13:22:42
I would prefer the right pcd wheels too. But there hard to get second hand well the ones I want.

And don't wheel spacers damage wheel bearings eventually.

Not if you get the correct offset of wheel to go with them, so that the tyre's contact patch will remain in the same place relative to the suspension.

You want that to happen in order not to screw up the suspension geometry, of course. What's the betting that the offset on a pair of wheels that you come across, which are already the wrong PCD, being Ok for the combination of the Omega's hubs and the width of your spacer, though?

This is the problem. Adapting your car to match the wheels is not the right way to go about it, because there are quite a few variables to get right and there'll always be at least one bodge.
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: tigers_gonads on 08 November 2012, 14:27:25
Wheel bearings are basically a service item ::)


Which was designed to work with standard spec parts  ;) :-*
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 08 November 2012, 15:14:08
If 110pcd is that hard to find wheels for, then why not replace the strut assembly with Monaro ones, (keep the Omega springs), and replace the rear hub flanges with Monaro ones as well. This would then open up a whole world of wheeled opportunity as they have a pcd of 120mm.

Of course, this will cost €€€, as even scrap Monaro parts are stupid money :-\ and that is before you try to explain to your insurers what changes you have made...

 :-X
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 November 2012, 15:58:56
I would prefer the right pcd wheels too. But there hard to get second hand well the ones I want.

And don't wheel spacers damage wheel bearings eventually.

how do you conclude that ?  they are widely used on many countries.. and I'm also using them without problems..  my spacers weight around 800 grs and they dont create a heavy load like 18/19/20 wheels with wide tires..
 
 
 
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 November 2012, 16:02:41
I would prefer the right pcd wheels too. But there hard to get second hand well the ones I want.

And don't wheel spacers damage wheel bearings eventually.


I'd say that any deviation from the manufactures spec will put greater stress on something somewhere.

Agree with what said on the wobble bolts though  ;)

higher stress in magnitude yes, but its negligible compared to those monster wheels and tyres..
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 08 November 2012, 16:47:29
how much are wheel spacers/converters?
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: 05omegav6 on 08 November 2012, 17:20:53
Irmscher spacers are £50 per pair, if you can get them :-\
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 November 2012, 17:53:34
you can also have them custom built for your car in a machining shop ..  check where you can find T6 aluminium alloy first.. I recommend 15-16 cms diameter and 35-40 mm thickness initially as it will be cut..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7075_aluminium_alloy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7075_aluminium_alloy)
 
ps: I used them for 120 pcd where there are many models to choose from..
 
pps: steel is very heavy so dont go for it..
Title: Re: is this true?
Post by: GaryC2.5td on 09 November 2012, 00:08:42
cool cheers thanks  :y :y :y