Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: feeutfo on 13 January 2013, 19:28:39
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Has been for the last 15 miles of our journey.
There appears to be no other ill effect. Lights still bright, still running.
Battery is tired I know that, but is it battery or alternator?
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Until you get a multimeter on it, who knows?
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My bet is alternator as lights still on.
Had three do this to me over the years of omega motoring
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My bet is alternator as lights still on.
Had three do this to me over the years of omega motoring
The Alternator powers the car's electrical circuits when it is running, not the Battery.
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My bet is alternator as lights still on.
Had three do this to me over the years of omega motoring
The Alternator powers the car's electrical circuits when it is running, not the Battery.
Yes i know but only using power in battery now till dead.
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I've had an alternated fail before and the car died straight away, with dash lights going loopy, radio on with ignition off. All sorts of odd behaviour.
This is different.
No meter. I'm in surbiton. Curry house. :)
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My bet is alternator as lights still on.
Had three do this to me over the years of omega motoring
The Alternator powers the car's electrical circuits when it is running, not the Battery.
Yes i know but only using power in battery now till dead.
15miles, cold night. Heater and lights on? :o
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I've had an alternated fail before and the car died straight away, with dash lights going loopy, radio on with ignition off. All sorts of odd behaviour.
This is different.
No meter. I'm in surbiton. Curry house. :)
Stick everything electrical on with the engine idling, Heated rear screen, heater motor on full, all lights including fogs, heated seats and if the engine is still running, the Alternator is doing at very least a pretty good job!
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My bet is alternator as lights still on.
Had three do this to me over the years of omega motoring
The Alternator powers the car's electrical circuits when it is running, not the Battery.
Yes i know but only using power in battery now till dead.
15miles, cold night. Heater and lights on? :o
Chris isn't a slow driver and don't use brakes ;D ;D
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Will a jump from another car help before I go home.?
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I would connect another car with jump leads and run the other car. Get as much charge into yours as you can. Minimise electrics on the way back. I managed about 20 miles with a totally dead alternator. Yours might not be 100% dead yet.
BTW: I have a refurbed one almost ready to go if you need it in a hurry.
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It's 36 miles home... :-\
Cc and radio off, shouldn't be a problem.
Lights. Only a few sections of the a3 are unlit on the way home, and from 7 to 10 of the
M4.
Might get away with it.
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Lights I mean on sides only.
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Lights I mean in sides only.
Technically illegal ..and a good chance of being "pulled" ... can you unplug the nearside and only run on the offside ?? The "law" may just think you have a blown bulb and not pull you so readily, especially if you drive gently .. :)
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I am not one to normally question KW as he is a font of knowledge, but I'd suggest 20miles without the assistance of an Alternator, even with a perfect battery at night would be impossible.
Lights are mandatory, whatever way you look at it. I'd be more inclined to get a ride on a flat-bed (if you have recovery available) than risk an A road and Motorway at night with minimal or no lighting.
IF your battery does fail (which I suspect it will) you will have Hazard lights for a few minutes at best on the hard shoulder.
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The climate control fan draws a surprising amount of current. I managed to drive 90 miles on side-lights but with climate off when my alternator failed totally last year.
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Lock the box in third? Keep the revs up? :-\
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Lock the box in third? Keep the revs up? :-\
Vxr8 is the answer ::) Third gear sounds good then....
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Can you get to a halfords - i'm sure they do a free battery check and can tell you if the alternator is working too?
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I would risk it and drive home but other's are right should just call break down as you wouldn't want to be stuck on side motorway for 30-45 min in cold waiting and not safe! last you can wait in warm there... :)
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Can you get to a halfords - i'm sure they do a free battery check and can tell you if the alternator is working too?
But they close at 4pm ?
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I meant in the morning but understand it is risky.
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I meant in the morning but understand it is risky.
Risky leaving full irmscher over night alone.... where was it again ;D
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How long to leave another car connected for the jump?
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How long to leave another car connected for the jump?
The only answer is as long as you can possibly wait.
Your car off, the other car running, jump leads connected.
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Lock the box in third? Keep the revs up? :-\
The Omega alternator is geared to spin pretty quickly. I don't think you will gain much by holding the gearbox in third :-\
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Lock the box in third? Keep the revs up? :-\
The Omega alternator is geared to spin pretty quickly. I don't think you will gain much by holding the gearbox in third :-\
Agreed. Assume you've checked belt and obvious connections?
Is it dim or fully lit?
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Very fully lit. :)
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Very fully lit. :)
Suddenly come on?
You might make it but it's a long way home from there... Breakdown cover?
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Yep, came on bright. Bing!
No flickering at all, like last time.
... Nobody is saying battery though, as we noticed the voltage was a little low last calibration...?
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Yep, came on bright. Bing!
No flickering at all, like last time.
... Nobody is saying battery though, as we noticed the voltage was a little low last calibration...?
The battery light on means the battery is feeding the system not the alternator .. so the battery is actually doing all the work .. it will fail .. but it hasn't yet ....
If the battery voltage was low last time you examined it .. that might have been because the alternator was starting to fail and putting less than optimal back into the battery ??
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Dodgy earthing?
Try connecting a jump lead from the negative battery clamp to a good secure point on the engine, such as a manifold nut etc. See if the warning light goes out! ;)
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Yep, came on bright. Bing!
No flickering at all, like last time.
... Nobody is saying battery though, as we noticed the voltage was a little low last calibration...?
Regulator and/or brushes have probably been below par for some time.
I changed the main beam lamps in my car several months before the alternator failure because they seemed yellow compared to the HID dip lamps. With a new regulator the main beams are nearly the same colour as the HIDs
The battery is bound to be a bit low on charge, how low depends on how gradual the decline of the old regulator has been :-\
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As said, battery light is triggered by voltage difference between battery and alternator (normally)
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When the battery light came on on the Estate it managed 11 miles (at night with headlights on) before it died completely - fortunately my partner just reached her destination. She phoned me and I went out, not even enough charge left for central locking. Called recovery, and when they arrived, diagnosis of faulty alernator confirmed. Fired it up with my boost pack and drove it onto recovery vehicle. Needed to do same at home to drive it off and into my drive (bonnet open and boost pack still attached). Charged battery, replaced alernator, all ok and no issues since.
Would have thought it foolish to attempt to drive a car with battery light on some 30+ miles at night - get it recovered.
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I am not one to normally question KW as he is a font of knowledge, but I'd suggest 20miles without the assistance of an Alternator, even with a perfect battery at night would be impossible.
It was possible, just, and my battery is the original 10 year old job and I suspect a little worse for wear.
I drove home in the wet and dark, everything not essential was turned off. Got away with just sidelights as much as I could and flicked the wipers only when needed. I did have Taxi Al following, though. Not sure I'd have risked it without.
You have a 65Ah battery, and about 30 minutes driving. Probably about 15 or 20 Amps load with just the essentials powered-up so it is do-able if you start with a fully charged battery and are careful. If you get stuck in traffic and the radiator fans come on, you are completely screwed! That's what did for mine, just as I was turning into my driveway.
I would say, if you have recovery, don't risk it, just get towed. Otherwise, charge it from another car for as long as you can - at least 30 Mins, to give yourself the best chance, and get someone to follow in case you need a top-up. Limped Emma's old Fiesta back from Abingdon like this once. It made it on a single charge, but was a bit more basic than an Omega!
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I drove my diesel cavalier from Heathrow to Basingstoke with a duff alternator and a spare battery to swap in part way. Actually, drove in the following afternoon and home again in the early hours the following day too due to no stock :o But I had batteries on charge so fully charged and diesels have a much lower draw once running ;)
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I'm guessing that Chris doesn't have the recovery option, or he wouldn't be asking the question .... :(
Can you borrow a spare, charged battery to swap half way home if needs be ???
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I'm guessing that Chris doesn't have the recovery option, or he wouldn't be asking the question .... :(
Can you borrow a spare, charged battery to swap half way home if needs be ???
I'd guess he's on his way now... Hopefully he's not going to see bad weather and gets a clear run.
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Home now. Piece if piss. Didn't skip a beat.
Jump leads for a while then went for it. Electrics seem fine, although the alarm went off moving mine nearer to Dads merc. Which reminds me, it did exactly the same thing on Boxing Day morning after a lay up of 3 days. Power sounder went off for 30seconds, couldn't turn it off. Presume its seeing low battery voltage and thinks the battery is being disconnected or whatever.
Battery is a "go" job with a very very black indicator.
Where do I get a regulator from for these alternaters? I have a spare alternator somewhere, so will recon my one while its off the car if possible.
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I'm guessing that Chris doesn't have the recovery option, or he wouldn't be asking the question .... :(
Can you borrow a spare, charged battery to swap half way home if needs be ???
yes I have AA cover. But they can pick up from anywhere, so may as well be hard shoulder as side street IMO.
Although I see your points re hazards failed etc.
Two traffic coppers didn't bat an eye at side lights. Or the slightly excessive speed either. Must admit I didn't expect to see any coppers at all, haven't for ages on traffic duty.
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Just a word of thanks to Radar btw. :y
Turned my phone on this morning ,after the battery died at the crucial moment last night, and was quite touched to find texts and voice mail from him offering a jump start if needed.
What a true gent.
Thankyou to Radar.
H and Chris. :-*
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Where do I get a regulator from for these alternaters?
This seller on the bay stocks them Chris, will need to find the Bosch number on yours then cross-check
m.u.r.e
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Thanks Rob, are all 3.2 alternators the same? :-\
the spare I have is off an mv6 3.2. Customer spec. Will that part number do.?
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I need to get a meter on it later, but could the fix be as simple as this dodgy contact shown in the bottom pic?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90512.0
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Thanks Rob, are all 3.2 alternators the same? :-\
the spare I have is off an mv6 3.2. Customer spec. Will that part number do.?
Not sure Chris, may be worth contacting seller.
VX part # for the 120A is BR14-T3-V14 or there`s these
http://www.woodauto.com/Component.aspx?Ref=VRG46418 (unbranded)
http://www.woodauto.com/Component.aspx?Ref=VRG46479 (Bosch)
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I need to get a meter on it later, but could the fix be as simple as this dodgy contact shown in the bottom pic?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90512.0
Quite possible, had one like that, good clean and was OK for about a year
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Those later alternators are not as reliable as the early ones and I seem to recall the regulator chip having some intelligence so it chucks the light on bright when the output drops (so check the rectifier diodes to).
As for distance. I have towed a dead Omega 80 miles on a partialy charged battery at night and the engine is not a huge consumer.
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My regulator came from MURE. Worth getting the bearings too, and doing a proper refurb, if it's the reg. that has failed.
The receipt was around somewhere <rummage>.
As said, I've got an alternator ready to go if required urgently. :y
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Just a word of thanks to Radar btw. :y
Turned my phone on this morning ,after the battery died at the crucial moment last night, and was quite touched to find texts and voice mail from him offering a jump start if needed.
What a true gent.
Thankyou to Radar.
H and Chris. :-*
Thankyou, your most welcome - the good thing is you got home :y :y
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Those later alternators are not as reliable as the early ones and I seem to recall the regulator chip having some intelligence so it chucks the light on bright when the output drops (so check the rectifier diodes to).
As for distance. I have towed a dead Omega 80 miles on a partialy charged battery at night and the engine is not a huge consumer.
Mark, have you seen who your talking to? :-[ ;D
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Just a word of thanks to Radar btw. :y
Turned my phone on this morning ,after the battery died at the crucial moment last night, and was quite touched to find texts and voice mail from him offering a jump start if needed.
What a true gent.
Thankyou to Radar.
H and Chris. :-*
Thankyou, your most welcome - the good thing is you got home :y :y
:y
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Home now. Piece if piss. Didn't skip a beat.
Jump leads for a while then went for it. Electrics seem fine, although the alarm went off moving mine nearer to Dads merc. Which reminds me, it did exactly the same thing on Boxing Day morning after a lay up of 3 days. Power sounder went off for 30seconds, couldn't turn it off. Presume its seeing low battery voltage and thinks the battery is being disconnected or whatever.
Battery is a "go" job with a very very black indicator.
Where do I get a regulator from for these alternaters? I have a spare alternator somewhere, so will recon my one while its off the car if possible.
There were a load of Go batteries produced with faulty indicators, if you take it off and give it a shake, it may glow green.
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Shake it? Bloody throttle it! ;D
I do wonder if this explanes the grumpy running on gas from cold. Cold also meaning a low charge in the battery. :-\
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It's a truely shite lpg system if it can't cope with a supply that is a volt or so lower
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I think it's wishful thinking ::) Mine ran fine on the saloon and I had battery crimp issues that dropped voltage to 12V when all electrical loads were on and it was fine ;)
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It was showing 11.2 volts on the meter.
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If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
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My LPG setup was working perfectly until everything else gave up when my alternator packed in. :-\
If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
Ditto, and if you'd said where you were going from and to it might have been handy. ::)
;)
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If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
See, I said leave him stranded... (as long as Mrs CG wasn't with him, as she'd whollop me)
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If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
See, I said leave him stranded... (as long as Mrs CG wasn't with him, as she'd whollop me)
she was, and I just showed her your post. Just to make sure. :)
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If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
See, I said leave him stranded... (as long as Mrs CG wasn't with him, as she'd whollop me)
she was, and I just showed her your post. Just to make sure. :)
Oh dear... Wouldn't want to be in TB's shoes next time you meet up :-X ::) :D
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My LPG setup was working perfectly until everything else gave up when my alternator packed in. :-\
If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
Ditto, and if you'd said where you were going from and to it might have been handy. ::)
;)
Wasn't it Surbiton curry house to Reading? :-\ :-\ :-\
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My LPG setup was working perfectly until everything else gave up when my alternator packed in. :-\
If I'd actually read this thread (I ignored it and didn't look at who posted it as I figured it'd be a simple question already answered) I'd have said you were welcome to stop in on your way back for a top-up..
But I didn't. So you weren't. :P ;D
Ditto, and if you'd said where you were going from and to it might have been handy. ::)
;)
Wasn't it Surbiton curry house to Reading? :-\ :-\ :-\
I thought we knew but couldn't see it anywhere :-\ :-\ :-\
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Picked up new alternator today, exchange job on tc from vx. Removed the old one. What a battle that is, have vx never heard of captive nuts?
Anyway, offer up the new one, and notice the black fittings on the reverse are different.
Rung vx, "oh it's definitely the right part sir"
Altogether now "OH NO IT ISN'T"
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/9B3472A0-D1E2-40E0-A60C-A5C4FB719ECF-610-000000FC985EDE7A.jpg)
Connectors are in a different position, and the large spade connector on the loom will not physically fit between the mouldings. :(
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I may be wrong, but is that just the earlier style of alternator? (the more reliable one) :-X
I think I'd have persuaded it into place, myself. ::)
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Connectors are reversed position, give or take. Loom wasn't long enough, spade connector too wide, forcing may have cracked the casing.
The metal body looked correct though.
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OK. Probably best to return it before breaking it. ;)
Remember I have one if swapping it for correct goes badly. :y
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Thanks Kev, it may come to that if the next new one is the same. :y
I think it will be, when ordering, the parts guy said they didn't have any refurbed ones, only 15 new ones in stock. :-\
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
No, report to moderator button, pressed. Although that would be a fun game, if that's the cause. ;D
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
In two words... ...Wood and Kevin ;D
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
In two words... ...Wood and Kevin ;D
He been at the Home Brew already ?? :) :)
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
In two words... ...Wood and Kevin ;D
He been at the Home Brew already ?? :) :)
'Round here, that sort of thing is known as "doing a Terbert". ;D
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Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
In two words... ...Wood and Kevin ;D
He been at the Home Brew already ?? :) :)
A rather nice Timothy Taylor Landlord clone, as it happens. :)
Wondering why this is pinned ??? :) :) :)
Button pressed.
That's HOW it got pinned .. WHY is a different matter :) :) :)
In two words... ...Wood and Kevin ;D
He been at the Home Brew already ?? :) :)
'Round here, that sort of thing is known as "doing a Terbert". ;D
Hmm. Quite possibly. :-[ I do wish the sticky button would ask for confirmation. It's a bit close to the Post button, you see. ::)
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Oh, "bangleberries" I @rsed that up too. >:(
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Oh, "bangleberries" I @rsed that up too. >:(
How many Landlords? ;D
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;D Ipad for Xmas was it? :)
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Thats the lower current 120A XA variant alternator and not the later XJ 140A one.
Vx parts counter f-up
As for removal, there dead easy, off and on in well under an hour.
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Took me 3 hours just to get the bloody thing off. ;D
I'd be interested to hear how to tackle the top bolt. And nut. Mine was fitted with the nut nearest the bag pipes. So bolt in from the back.
I removed it from underneath, Kev says he did his from the top by removing the water bottle to get to the top nut, which suggests my bolt was fitted differently.
It can't be on its second alternator surely?
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
Bag pipes have to come out. Which on Dbw means moving the plenum.
I waisted time by removing the aux tensioner, which means moving the cable tray, in the hope that the alternator would then swing out with the bottom bolt removed, to allow access to the top nut and bolt. It didn't help.
My arm barely fits between the sump and subframe, and I need something longer to reach through to the top torx bolt. I just couldn't get on the bolt head.
I'll try moving the water bottle and tackle it from the top.
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
Bag pipes have to come out. Which on Dbw means moving the plenum.
I waisted time by removing the aux tensioner, which means moving the cable tray, in the hope that the alternator would then swing out with the bottom bolt removed, to allow access to the top nut and bolt. It didn't help.
My arm barely fits between the sump and subframe, and I need something longer to reach through to the top torx bolt. I just couldn't get on the bolt head.
I'll try moving the water bottle and tackle it from the top.
Why is DBW different?
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
Bag pipes have to come out. Which on Dbw means moving the plenum.
I waisted time by removing the aux tensioner, which means moving the cable tray, in the hope that the alternator would then swing out with the bottom bolt removed, to allow access to the top nut and bolt. It didn't help.
My arm barely fits between the sump and subframe, and I need something longer to reach through to the top torx bolt. I just couldn't get on the bolt head.
I'll try moving the water bottle and tackle it from the top.
Why is DBW different?
Because the plenum is longer?
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
Bag pipes have to come out. Which on Dbw means moving the plenum.
I waisted time by removing the aux tensioner, which means moving the cable tray, in the hope that the alternator would then swing out with the bottom bolt removed, to allow access to the top nut and bolt. It didn't help.
My arm barely fits between the sump and subframe, and I need something longer to reach through to the top torx bolt. I just couldn't get on the bolt head.
I'll try moving the water bottle and tackle it from the top.
Why is DBW different?
Because the plenum is longer?
Oh I see what you mean.
Ok, scratch that. Long plenum needs to be moved. (Remembering TB has a long plenum with cable) bloody mini face lift. ;D
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They can simply be moved aside, easier on DBW than 3.0 with extended plenum.
Never had issues with the bolts on any of the V6 variants, its simply a case of getting a spanner on the top bolt.
Woth making sure the sliding spacers on the alternator are retracted to make fitting easier
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Plus there's lpg, cables and crap some eejit installed around the place. ::)
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
Bag pipes have to come out. Which on Dbw means moving the plenum.
I waisted time by removing the aux tensioner, which means moving the cable tray, in the hope that the alternator would then swing out with the bottom bolt removed, to allow access to the top nut and bolt. It didn't help.
My arm barely fits between the sump and subframe, and I need something longer to reach through to the top torx bolt. I just couldn't get on the bolt head.
I'll try moving the water bottle and tackle it from the top.
Why is DBW different?
Because the plenum is longer?
Oh I see what you mean.
Ok, scratch that. Long plenum needs to be moved. (Remembering TB has a long plenum with cable) bloody mini face lift. ;D
Post 98 3.0l have the extended plenum. Plenum does not need removing to get bagpipes out IME on non DBW. Not sure I've ever had bagpipes out of a DBW when not doing the cambelt :-[ (or fitting LPG, in both cases, plenum has to come off anyway)
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Plus there's lpg, cables and crap some eejit installed around the place. ::)
Yeah, can see vapouriser being in a "less than convenient" location. If unbolted from inner wing, enough slack on pipework to shift it enough? Probably not, knowing how little scoope there was for fitting it in the first place...
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I noticed the backlight & dash lighting on mine is starting to pulse with a reasonable electrical load on the car now.. still, at least this is another job Gixers Universal Mechanical Services can be roped in for, clearly... ;) ;D
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I noticed the backlight & dash lighting on mine is starting to pulse with a reasonable electrical load on the car now.. still, at least this is another job Gixers Universal Mechanical Services can be roped in for, clearly... ;) ;D
Happens on my 3.2 at idle. In my case, its the bloody LPG nozzles too big, causing the normal DBW hunting to be far worse ;D
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I noticed the backlight & dash lighting on mine is starting to pulse with a reasonable electrical load on the car now.. still, at least this is another job Gixers Universal Mechanical Services can be roped in for, clearly... ;) ;D
So wHats on this list of yours so far?
Wishbones
Donuts
Stat
Alternator? Bearings are a bit rough on my old one. 96k old. Dash lights where dimming a bit on mine too. Will see how that behaves when I get the new one.
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Dealers just rung me back, after their complete system failed this morning. Part did not arrive this morning.
If the weather closes in on the m4 tomorrow, that's buggered the plans for the weekend now. :(
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So wHats on this list of yours so far?
Wishbones
Donuts
Stat
Alternator? Bearings are a bit rough on my old one. 96k old. Dash lights where dimming a bit on mine too. Will see how that behaves when I get the new one.
Yup that's the list - oh and passenger side cam cover gasket that I've been too bone idle to replace :-[
Seriously though, I'll leave the alternator until it packs up - it's not like there aren't two other cars here to use* :)
(*Ok so one of them has no brakes at the moment, but that's beside the point ;D)
Where's your alternator coming in to, Bracknell VX? If you need someone to pick it up on Saturday and can't make it there, let me know :y
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So wHats on this list of yours so far?
Wishbones
Donuts
Stat
Alternator? Bearings are a bit rough on my old one. 96k old. Dash lights where dimming a bit on mine too. Will see how that behaves when I get the new one.
Yup that's the list - oh and passenger side cam cover gasket that I've been too bone idle to replace :-[
Seriously though, I'll leave the alternator until it packs up - it's not like there aren't two other cars here to use* :)
(*Ok so one of them has no brakes at the moment, but that's beside the point ;D)
Where's your alternator coming in to, Bracknell VX? If you need someone to pick it up on Saturday and can't make it there, let me know :y
slough Burnham garage, as it arrived on weds as I was working that day.
There's no rush as far as travel goes, we have her Lexus, but the plan was to do smd's wishbones and poly donuts this weekend.
Not happening with my car stuck on the drive. And I think the weather will put an end to that idea anyway, by the looks, but we'll see.
Thanks though. :y
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No worries! Let me know if you want to come down and borrow the garage when you do get to doing them for SMD (or yourself! ;D) btw. I can't promise the floor won't be damp (some numpty forgot to specify a DPM when they laid the concrete pad.. numpty being me) but at least it won't be snowing in there ;)
I promise I won't rope you in to doing mine at the same time ;D
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Or if you want to use the workshops here let me know :y
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Thanks guys, lets see how it goes. :)
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in my car top bolt entered rear to front, so nut was in front. Lower vice versa. I did not remove anything else... or I can not remember I did :-X
Bag pipes have to come out. Which on Dbw means moving the plenum.
I waisted time by removing the aux tensioner, which means moving the cable tray, in the hope that the alternator would then swing out with the bottom bolt removed, to allow access to the top nut and bolt. It didn't help.
My arm barely fits between the sump and subframe, and I need something longer to reach through to the top torx bolt. I just couldn't get on the bolt head.
I'll try moving the water bottle and tackle it from the top.
Bagpipes you can take off without taking plenum off. I'm quite sure I did not have to move plenum to replace alternator but might be I removed the bagpipe-thingy totally from engine bay.
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Or if you want to use the workshops here let me know :y
Or the (very reasonably priced!) fully refurbed correct alternator here. ;)
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I noticed the backlight & dash lighting on mine is starting to pulse with a reasonable electrical load on the car now.. still, at least this is another job Gixers Universal Mechanical Services can be roped in for, clearly... ;) ;D
Happens on my 3.2 at idle. In my case, its the bloody LPG nozzles too big, causing the normal DBW hunting to be far worse ;D
Mine's started doing it too, although I haven't checked for DTC's or looked at the LPG tuning yet ::)
The lazy stat probably isn't helping either :-[ ::)
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Thames Valley very kindly fitted a new one to mine at 90k, current one now done 150 :-\
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Modern alternators are designed to damp the current delivery at low engine speeds to prevent the alternator belt slipping and to stop sudden changes in load from impacting idle quality. I suspect this is one reason why the dash lights tend to flicker (mine does it, I think less so now I have a new battery, though).
The heated seat elements are always cycling on and off and I find these are the biggest contributor. As a load switches on, the alternator doesn't immediately respond to the increased current demand, so the Voltage drops until the current delivery picks up, and this causes the lights to dim. At higher engine speeds the alternator damping is disabled, so it responds instantly, and no flickering. :y
My theory, anyway.
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I don't understand how the varying electrical requirements from the alternator can cause the belt to slip? I thought the physical affort required to turn the alternator would be the same. Or are we talking electrical magnets type stuff? :-\
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I don't understand how the varying electrical requirements from the alternator can cause the belt to slip? I thought the physical affort required to turn the alternator would be the same. Or are we talking electrical magnets type stuff? :-\
The electrical load is "work" that the alternator has to do ... as the load (work) increases the effort to turn the alternator increases .. the engine does more "work" to drive the load ...
If the belt is loose and the load gets too high .. the belt will slip .. :)
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I don't understand how the varying electrical requirements from the alternator can cause the belt to slip? I thought the physical affort required to turn the alternator would be the same. Or are we talking electrical magnets type stuff? :-\
In simpleton terms, the more load on the alternator, the harder it is to turn.
Its how, for example, electric motor braking works - by putting a ridiculously high load on it.
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Ok so what's in the alternator that causes drag? Certainly it's free spinning engine off. What's happening to cause the drag?
Battery turns the starter, starter turns the motor, motor turns the alt....?
In simpleton terms, I don't understand electrics.
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The electrical load causes the drag.. it's free spinning with the engine off - turn on an electrical load and try spinning it and it should be harder to turn.
It's the law of conservation of energy - you can't get 'free' energy, it has to come from somewhere, so it comes from the effort required to turn the alternator to produce the desired power output. Literally it's due to requiring a stronger magnetic field to generate the power..
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The electrical load causes the drag.. it's free spinning with the engine off - turn on an electrical load and try spinning it and it should be harder to turn.
It's the law of conservation of energy - you can't get 'free' energy, it has to come from somewhere, so it comes from the effort required to turn the alternator to produce the desired power output. Literally it's due to requiring a stronger magnetic field to generate the power..
Yep, in other words, "electrical magnets type stuff". :y
;)
I tested my refurbed alternator by spinning it on an electric drill. Apply a load (car headlamp bulb in this case) and you can certainly feel the extra resistance doing that.
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The electrical load causes the drag.. it's free spinning with the engine off - turn on an electrical load and try spinning it and it should be harder to turn.
It's the law of conservation of energy - you can't get 'free' energy, it has to come from somewhere, so it comes from the effort required to turn the alternator to produce the desired power output. Literally it's due to requiring a stronger magnetic field to generate the power..
Yep, in other words, "electrical magnets type stuff". :y
;)
I tested my refurbed alternator by spinning it on an electric drill. Apply a load (car headlamp bulb in this case) and you can certainly feel the extra resistance doing that.
Ok I'm getting there. So why can't I feel magnets spinning by hand? Are there magnets in there? Or is it electrical field type magnets? (So not magnets at all)
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The electrical load causes the drag.. it's free spinning with the engine off - turn on an electrical load and try spinning it and it should be harder to turn.
It's the law of conservation of energy - you can't get 'free' energy, it has to come from somewhere, so it comes from the effort required to turn the alternator to produce the desired power output. Literally it's due to requiring a stronger magnetic field to generate the power..
Yep, in other words, "electrical magnets type stuff". :y
;)
I tested my refurbed alternator by spinning it on an electric drill. Apply a load (car headlamp bulb in this case) and you can certainly feel the extra resistance doing that.
Ok I'm getting there. So why can't I feel magnets spinning by hand? Are there magnets in there? Or is it electrical field type magnets?
There are no permanent magnets.
The rotor (bit that turns) has a coil of wire on it which creates a magnetic field when a current is passed through it (the regulator controls this, and the brushes pass the current from the fixed regulator at the back of the alternator to the rotating rotor).
The stator (outer part made of steel plates stacked up) also has coils of wire wound onto it (you can see these easily through the cooling slots in the case). When the magnetic field created by the rotor rotates within the stator, an electric current is induced in the coils in the stator. This current is rectified (turned from AC to DC) and powers the electrical items in the car and charges the battery.
So, until you have current in the rotor coil, you have no magnetic field, and it actually has to be spinning pretty fast for anything significant to happen even then (they typically spin at about 3 times engine RPM, so yours is normally doing about 18,000 RPM ;)).
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Yeah, no wonder the bearings are f@cked. ;D
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That reminds me. Bits I needed to refurb mine were:
Regulator £19.99
Bearing 6303 2RS C3 £3.99
Bearing 6003 2RS £3
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Let's put it really simply.... The hamster in yours is tired so you need a new one ;) ;D
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I can pick up & deliver for you on sat. - i need to go to reading anyway so is not much of a detour?
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I can pick up & deliver for you on sat. - i need to go to reading anyway so is not much of a detour?
Only of your passing Radar. :y
I have to ring them first thing, see if its arrived. I think they shut at 12?
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12 sounds about right - you have pm.
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Nice one Radar. I'll ring em first thing.
Thankyou. :)
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Well this isn't going well at all.
Incorrect part again. That's two on the trot.
Dealer has ordered a bin check at Luton. Can't tell how long that will take. Can't order a new part until the bin check is complete.
Customer services say they are looking into it, should hear from them within 48 hours. Part should arrive by the end of the week.
Great.
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Chris, do you need a loan car until the parts turn up?
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AndyC may have been quicker! :y
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All sorted. Massive thanks to Kevin Wood, gave me his refurbished one and took the old one off me for some interrogation.
All back together, road tested, and having tea and beer.
I must have been tired when I took it off the car, I really struggled. It all went back together much easier this time.
Dragged the top bolt through the hole with a magnet on a stick btw. :y
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Old one tested and exhibits square root of naff all output. ;D
Windings intact, rectifier OK and everything visually good so looks like another regulator required.
Bearings a bit noisy so will swap them while I'm at it.
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Oh, and glad to hear it's sorted, Chris. :D
A pleasure to help. :y
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No output at all? :o
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No output at all? :o
Well, it did say to Kevin in a hurt sounding whine that you had been very rough with it when you dragged it from it's home, unfortunately he misinterpreted it as rough sounding bearings ;D
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No output at all? :o
Nope. Dead.
Not resting.
Not stunned.
Not even pining for the fjords.
I know a dead alternator when I see one and I'm lookin' at one right now. ;D
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No output at all? :o
Nope. Dead.
Not resting.
Not stunned.
Not even pining for the fjords.
I know a dead alternator when I see one and I'm lookin' at one right now. ;D
That, sir, is an ex-alternator :-X ::) :D
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No output at all? :o
Nope. Dead.
Not resting.
Not stunned.
Not even pining for the fjords.
I know a dead alternator when I see one and I'm lookin' at one right now. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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I'll pay you for the parts obviously Kev. :y
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I'll pay you for the parts obviously Kev. :y
Payments in Indian comestibles accepted. :P
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Oooh. Or rear poly bush fitting services. :P
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Shhh, not so loud ;D ;)
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Oooh. Or rear poly bush fitting services. :P
But the snow has nearly melted? ;)
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Oooh. Or rear poly bush fitting services. :P
I'd hold out for both... ...although your bushes are still in my grubby mits ;D
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Oooh. Or rear poly bush fitting services. :P
But the snow has nearly melted? ;)
It can be 20C outside, until I get my arse over to gayboy's, your's aren't being done. That puts me front of the queue ;D ;D ;D
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Oooh. Or rear poly bush fitting services. :P
But the snow has nearly melted? ;)
It can be 20C outside, until I get my arse over to gayboy's, your's aren't being done. That puts me front of the queue ;D ;D ;D
You can leave your arse at home, thankyou very much. ::)
MUUUUUUUUM...
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Picked up new alternator today, exchange job on tc from vx. Removed the old one. What a battle that is, have vx never heard of captive nuts?
Anyway, offer up the new one, and notice the black fittings on the reverse are different.
Rung vx, "oh it's definitely the right part sir"
Altogether now "OH NO IT ISN'T"
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/9B3472A0-D1E2-40E0-A60C-A5C4FB719ECF-610-000000FC985EDE7A.jpg)
Connectors are in a different position, and the large spade connector on the loom will not physically fit between the mouldings. :(
Customer care rang today. They still insist its the correct part.
<Panto mode on> OOOHHH NO IT IS'NNNT. <Panto mode off>
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Very slow cranking leaving work today. Started fine this morning after 24 hour lay up. :-\
Get home, meter reads 12.51 ignition off. Lights on, 11,9 volts. Bugger, new battery I believe?
It's now on charge, again.
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What was it with engine running?
You would have deep-discharged the battery when your alternator failed. With the current weather it probably isn't getting enough charge on each journey to bring it back up to full charge.
of course it may have been nearing the end of it's life and the deep-discharge may have killed it. :(
Conversation required with Kevin Wood methinks :-\
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Worth going through the guide:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90619.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90619.0)
But.. 11.9 with a little load on doesn't sound good assuming the battery is fully charged. Worth charging it, as you're doing, and repeating the test, IMHO.
Also make sure the alternator is giving it a decent charge as described in the guide. It's new to the car and, thus, under suspicion. Can always drop it round at the weekend and we'll have a look. As always, check security of crimps on the battery terminals too.
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That reading was taken immediate after a 45 minute commute.
Well, as soon as it took me to get a meter on it after a quick wee, dump some stuff in the house, open garage door etc etc.
It also dropped to 9.something briefly while cranking.
As I recall, following your guide, figures where ok while engine running. :-\
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Sounding like a shagged battery.
But re-test after a good charge - 45m commute may not be enough this time of year.
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It's buggered, on charge over night, very similar figures this morning.
New battery in th boot. ;)
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Oh and btw. Alternator finally turned up. 140amp job. Orderd from another dealer network. ::)
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New battery fitted.
When resetting one touch windows, the interior light no longer dims when holding both front window switches up symaltaniously. ::)
I think the old battery was buggered. :) will keep an eye on it though.
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Fingers crossed its sorted, but if you need a courier let me know.
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Fingers crossed its sorted, but if you need a courier let me know.
No worries Radar, all sorted I think. Thankyou though. :y
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I have a battery in the garage if you don't want to risk yours failing?
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Sure it'll be fine. It's under warranty. :)