Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: RobseyMV6 on 17 January 2013, 21:28:29
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Looks busy but done :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmENfi2nkrE
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Indeed.
http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/showthread.php?t=275941
But how well? Auxilierys and steering box/header interface being key.
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Looks busy but done :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmENfi2nkrE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmENfi2nkrE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck4r5NUMLbc same car poor video.
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On the cars for me when I win the lottery :D
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Get a straight 6 in it :P
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Here's a white one, looks like it's trying to do a wheelie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vZytf3GokI
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Get a straight 6 in it :P
Here's one for you, 693 whp from a standard 3.6 s6 block!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS87LoXyf2Q
Sounds loud whereas the v8's sound sexy...
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OK V8 then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPRNp5Mgh9Y ;)
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one more here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J93s9_RH6hY :y
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anything can be done with time and patience i put a rover v8 in a mini back in the 80s did that shift took it to the crystal palace to brighton run
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anything can be done with time and patience i put a rover v8 in a mini back in the 80s did that shift took it to the crystal palace to brighton run
friend of mine doing that-but engine transverse in back - built stroker motor for it 4.4 -should wheelie when done :y
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anything can be done with time and patience i put a rover v8 in a mini back in the 80s did that shift took it to the crystal palace to brighton run
friend of mine doing that-but engine transverse in back - built stroker motor for it 4.4 -should wheelie when done :y
bloody hell proberbly rip the tarmac up as well mine you had to sit in the back to drive it took 12 months to build and was 4x4 a lot of engineering in that :y :y :y
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anything can be done with time and patience i put a rover v8 in a mini back in the 80s did that shift took it to the crystal palace to brighton run
:D :D :D
Ive seen some of those converted , one at santa pod .... bloody quick and very noisy ;D :y
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I see 2woody is on. :)
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Actually that reminds me. The twist on the engine as the throttle is blipped. Not an issues on a left hooker.
But on the correct side of the car, that will twist straight into the path of the steering box. It would have to have a rack IMO, for the project to work on a uk car. :)
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Actually that reminds me. The twist on the engine as the throttle is blipped. Not an issues on a left hooker.
But on the correct side of the car, that will twist straight into the path of the steering box. It would have to have a rack IMO, for the project to work on a uk car. :)
Let us know how you get on with it chris ;D I see what you mean though :y
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Actually that reminds me. The twist on the engine as the throttle is blipped. Not an issues on a left hooker.
But on the correct side of the car, that will twist straight into the path of the steering box. It would have to have a rack IMO, for the project to work on a uk car. :)
Let us know how you get on with it chris ;D I see what you mean though :y
The pics of the launch car at the Munich show the engine off centre too, away from the steering box.
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Is the GTO engine an easier fitment than say a BMW V8?
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Is the GTO engine an easier fitment than say a BMW V8?
Same LS range. And the BMW v8 is a wider v angle, double over head cam and very difficult to find a manual box for, I'm told?
Is the gto an American monaro, btw? Looks very similar. :-\
If so how do they get gto callipers to fit a a catera?
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same vee angle, but the BMW engine is no smaller.
GTO is indeed a US-spec Monaro. The brakes are actually worse than Omega B ones - believe me, I have one with these brakes. Its probably the only car I've ever driven with worse brakes than Omega B
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The small (3.5) V8 in my e39
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/rossinbristol22/BMW%20535i/IMG_03551_zps62da439e.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/rossinbristol22/BMW%20535i/IMG_03561_zps78f7c2b2.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i85/rossinbristol22/BMW%20535i/IMG_03541_zps7b769344.jpg)
Nowhere near the power of the LS3 GM V8, but roughly the same size.
I believe the engine bay of the e39 to be larger in length than the Omega, but the Omega 'bay has much more height and slightly more width IIRC.
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The small (3.5) V8 in my e39
Do you know if theres any difference in actual sized between the 3.5 and say the 4.0 or 4.4?
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The small (3.5) V8 in my e39
Do you know if theres any difference in actual sized between the 3.5 and say the 4.0 or 4.4?
3.5 and 4.4 are identical externally.
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The small (3.5) V8 in my e39
Do you know if theres any difference in actual sized between the 3.5 and say the 4.0 or 4.4?
3.5 and 4.4 are identical externally.
And the 4.0?
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And the 4.0?
Not sure. It wasn't fitted to the e39, so not an area I am familiar with.
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And the 4.0?
Not sure. It wasn't fitted to the e39, so not an area I am familiar with.
Got'cha, just clarified with my mate :y
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And the 4.0?
Not sure. It wasn't fitted to the e39, so not an area I am familiar with.
Got'cha, just clarified with my mate :y
You didn't believe me? :-\
;D ;D
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Ha ha! Nah, i didn't understand why the 4.0 wasn't in the e39 range :P
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Ha ha! Nah, i didn't understand why the 4.0 wasn't in the e39 range :P
That's BMW for you - Put 540i on the arse end, and it's a 4.4 engine under the bonnet.
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Dohc heads are way too big.
This is an LS v8 pic taken from the gear box end obviously.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/bc019e66.jpg)
Push rod actuated cams may be a little agricultural, but they do make for a very compact cylinder head.(runs off a single cam in the v)
Heads being fine for width in the omega engine bay. Main issue is the manifolds exiting, and the widest part being the spark plug leads/caps.
Afaict its an extremely compact, light, powerful, and reliable engine. Comparatively speaking.
No leaking sumps or cam cover gaskets. Coil pacs last longer. Longer service intervals. Only issue is getting it all in. And self control on the loud pedal once it is ;D
It looked like they may have trouble shutting the bonnet on the first video. A minor issue. :)
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Ps, if my rough measuring is correct, the steering box will come right to the end of where the ht lead disappears into that black plastic bit on the ht lead cap.
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What is the expected output of that engine? Which LS engine is it?
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
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Dohc heads are way too big.
This is an LS v8 pic taken from the gear box end obviously.
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/bc019e66.jpg)
Push rod actuated cams may be a little agricultural, but they do make for a very compact cylinder head.(runs off a single cam in the v)
Heads being fine for width in the omega engine bay. Main issue is the manifolds exiting, and the widest part being the spark plug leads/caps.
Afaict its an extremely compact, light, powerful, and reliable engine. Comparatively speaking.
No leaking sumps or cam cover gaskets. Coil pacs last longer. Longer service intervals. Only issue is getting it all in. And self control on the loud pedal once it is ;D
It looked like they may have trouble shutting the bonnet on the first video. A minor issue. :)
The one pictured is an ls3 iirc(?)
Power goes up with the ls* number
Early ls1 as in the one gm planned for the omega was about 320 iirc?
Ls2 a fair bit more
Ls3 over 400bhp.
I'm sure 2woody will have more accurate figures, but its not really a problem to get 400 out of 1-3 with basic tuning naturally aspirated. Super charging 500hp ish.
Robsys monaro puts put 500 iirc, with a sooohoooHOOOOper charger and monkish mapping. Which runs better with a more manly fuel pump. :)
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
yep. It'll fit. Question is how much agro, and getting auxiliarys working. It's a bit tight at the front too, notice they moved the battery.
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
yep. It'll fit. Question is how much agro, and getting auxiliarys working. It's a bit tight at the front too, notice they moved the battery.
Things like the battery are easily moved, though - into the boot if necessary.
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Wait up fella's.
We know the e39 'bay is similar in size, yet they fit a v10 in it without any inherent problems.
It's clear the Omega V8 wasn't produced because of financial issues rather than the commonly used 'cooling' excuse.
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Lets not forget the 6.2 fitted to a C Klass. :-\
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Wait up fella's.
We know the e39 'bay is similar in size, yet they fit a v10 in it without any inherent problems.
It's clear the Omega V8 wasn't produced because of financial issues rather than the commonly used 'cooling' excuse.
Don't think the e39 has a steering box? IMO, reading between the lines, its was the closeness of the steering box, and the resulting narrowness of the headers on that cylinder that caused the problem.
IMO of course. ;)
Certainly the "internal cooling ways" description gm released doesn't stack up with the motor. It's as bullet proof as they ever get.
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Lets not forget the 6.2 fitted to a C Klass. :-\
Oh yes let's. ;D
Do they have a manual box?
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Wait up fella's.
We know the e39 'bay is similar in size, yet they fit a v10 in it without any inherent problems.
It's clear the Omega V8 wasn't produced because of financial issues rather than the commonly used 'cooling' excuse.
Don't think the e39 has a steering box? IMO, reading between the lines, its was the closeness of the steering box, and the resulting narrowness of the headers on that cylinder that caused the problem.
IMO of course. ;)
Certainly the "internal cooling ways" description gm released doesn't stack up with the motor. It's as bullet proof as they ever get.
Steering box on the V8's :y
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
yep. It'll fit. Question is how much agro, and getting auxiliarys working. It's a bit tight at the front too, notice they moved the battery.
Things like the battery are easily moved, though - into the boot if necessary.
They moved the abs too. And obviously no ac yet. ::)
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/afdb0b96143869a16efc42f87d785962.jpg)
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Lets not forget the 6.2 fitted to a C Klass. :-\
Oh yes let's. ;D
Do they have a manual box?
No - 7speed Auto IIRC until the latest variant.
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Lets not forget the 6.2 fitted to a C Klass. :-\
Oh yes let's. ;D
Do they have a manual box?
No - 7speed Auto IIRC until the latest variant.
Tremac t5 box then, means a gm lump. Unless making one off bell housings. :o
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
If someone brings an engine-less Omega round we can always try dropping the 390 in for giggles.. ;D
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
If someone brings an engine-less Omega round we can always try dropping the 390 in for giggles.. ;D
Now, who's got an engine-less omega? ::)
Might have to cut a hole in the floorpan so he can do the Flintstone thing. ;D
Can't be more than 10 or 12 miles, and he was mentioning the need to get fit.... :D
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noisewise v8 impressive..
but trying to fit a heavy v8 lump too much work imo.. c20let will be lighter , easily gives 400 bhp and fits straight in..
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Torque. ;)
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4 pot noise v V8 noise?
No competition!
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..c20let will be lighter , easily gives 400 bhp and fits straight in..
Fits straight in? That's no fun!
Plus a 4 cylinder turbo engine would be 'wrong' for an Omega, unless you were building a stripped out track machine... (for drifting obviously as an Omega is never going to make a track day race car.)
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Torque. ;)
no worries for torque, now checked about achievable powers with c20let.. with full mods it can go over 1000 hp :o
problem is finding a gearbox that can handle this much power ???
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..c20let will be lighter , easily gives 400 bhp and fits straight in..
Fits straight in? That's no fun!
Plus a 4 cylinder turbo engine would be 'wrong' for an Omega, unless you were building a stripped out track machine... (for drifting obviously as an Omega is never going to make a track day race car.)
why ? its done by a member.. I admit it omega not designed as a race car, but if you want power here it is ::)
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1000hp out of a 2 litre engine will be very nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing OHCRAPI'VEHITATREE! though ;)
Driveable on track if you can keep it in the power band but around town would be like pulling teeth..
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1000hp out of a 2 litre engine will be very nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing OHCRAPI'VEHITATREE! though ;)
Driveable on track if you can keep it in the power band but around town would be like pulling teeth..
;D ;D ;D agreed.. drivable or not is another question, but heavy v8 lumps meaningless unless you are going for 1K,2K hp monsters..
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ok.. this much lemon juice is enough, you can continue to dream ;D ;D ;D :y
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You want power in a chassis that can handle it ???
http://passionford.com/forum/restorations-rebuilds-and-projects/231097-zzz-zzz-sleeper-granada.html
(I know I've put it up before and its long .. but well worth the read :) )
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..c20let will be lighter , easily gives 400 bhp and fits straight in..
Fits straight in? That's no fun!
Plus a 4 cylinder turbo engine would be 'wrong' for an Omega, unless you were building a stripped out track machine... (for drifting obviously as an Omega is never going to make a track day race car.)
I'm considering it actually... Could be a grin ;D ;D
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You want power in a chassis that can handle it ???
http://passionford.com/forum/restorations-rebuilds-and-projects/231097-zzz-zzz-sleeper-granada.html
(I know I've put it up before and its long .. but well worth the read :) )
Like that granny 8)
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...a 4 cylinder turbo engine would be 'wrong' for an Omega, unless you were building a stripped out track machine... (for drifting obviously as an Omega is never going to make a track day race car.)
I'm considering it actually... Could be a grin ;D ;D
Definitely it would be fun, just not fast. :)
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My Holden, despite being V8 and longer and wider is at least 100kg lighter than my Omegas - have measured them.
The engine at the moment is completely standard, just with a fancy exhaust - with its LS1, it puts out 420HP - at least that's what the dyno says.
I'm sure that it would be relatively straightforward to drop an LSX into an Omega. I'm just not the person to do nit as I've got the Holden already.
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
If someone brings an engine-less Omega round we can always try dropping the 390 in for giggles.. ;D
Now, who's got an engine-less omega? ::)
Might have to cut a hole in the floorpan so he can do the Flintstone thing. ;D
Can't be more than 10 or 12 miles, and he was mentioning the need to get fit.... :D
::)
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
If someone brings an engine-less Omega round we can always try dropping the 390 in for giggles.. ;D
Now, who's got an engine-less omega? ::)
Might have to cut a hole in the floorpan so he can do the Flintstone thing. ;D
Can't be more than 10 or 12 miles, and he was mentioning the need to get fit.... :D
::)
Clearly we need to work on him a bit more, Kevin.. I mean there's even storage space for the rusty hulk H will soon set fire to bodyshell in my garden..
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...a 4 cylinder turbo engine would be 'wrong' for an Omega, unless you were building a stripped out track machine... (for drifting obviously as an Omega is never going to make a track day race car.)
I'm considering it actually... Could be a grin ;D ;D
Definitely it would be fun, just not fast. :)
That's the trouble... I'd love to do it but am looking more along the lines of MX-5. Ideally I want RWD and 1.8 or under (classes based on cc) and MX just seems to be ticking the boxes ;)
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We're very roughly talking about doubling bhp, for almost the same weight lump. With a fairly big dolup of reliability thrown in, with alot less maintanance over an omega v engine.
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...a 4 cylinder turbo engine would be 'wrong' for an Omega, unless you were building a stripped out track machine... (for drifting obviously as an Omega is never going to make a track day race car.)
I'm considering it actually... Could be a grin ;D ;D
Definitely it would be fun, just not fast. :)
That's the trouble... I'd love to do it but am looking more along the lines of MX-5. Ideally I want RWD and 1.8 or under (classes based on cc) and MX just seems to be ticking the boxes ;)
Just cos it is faster than any Omega, as proven at the York Meet....... :y :y :y
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One of these days one of us is going to have to get one on a hoist, drop it in and see what's what. All the calculation in the world won't tell you what offering one up will. ;)
If someone brings an engine-less Omega round we can always try dropping the 390 in for giggles.. ;D
Now, who's got an engine-less omega? ::)
Might have to cut a hole in the floorpan so he can do the Flintstone thing. ;D
Can't be more than 10 or 12 miles, and he was mentioning the need to get fit.... :D
::)
Without the engine and box fitted, it is probably light enough to tow with another Omega :y
The only issue that you might have Aaron, is that if it fits, you will need to find another one ;D
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noisewise v8 impressive..
but trying to fit a heavy v8 lump too much work imo.. c20let will be lighter , easily gives 400 bhp and fits straight in..
Good job it fits straight in, as you'll be rebuilding it every couple of weeks ::)
Probably...
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noisewise v8 impressive..
but trying to fit a heavy v8 lump too much work imo.. c20let will be lighter , easily gives 400 bhp and fits straight in..
Good job it fits straight in, as you'll be rebuilding it every couple of weeks ::)
Probably...
there are several here around 400 bhp.. I dont hear the owners have problems.. however, its a tradition that turbo cars must visit shops weekly to drink some tea from shop owners ;D :D either a hose or a connection something usually goes wrong ;D
I would turbo my engine(clit) anyday but fuel prices and usual wear/tear costs of turbo engines keeps me away :( :'(
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there are several here around 400 bhp.. I dont hear the owners have problems.. however, its a tradition that turbo cars must visit shops weekly to drink some tea from shop owners ;D :D either a hose or a connection something usually goes wrong ;D
I would turbo my engine(clit) anyday but fuel prices and usual wear/tear costs of turbo engines keeps me away :( :'(
See, even you agree that if you want a RELIABLE 400+bhp engine, then the only sensible answer is an LS lump :y
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there are several here around 400 bhp.. I dont hear the owners have problems.. however, its a tradition that turbo cars must visit shops weekly to drink some tea from shop owners ;D :D either a hose or a connection something usually goes wrong ;D
I would turbo my engine(clit) anyday but fuel prices and usual wear/tear costs of turbo engines keeps me away :( :'(
See, even you agree that if you want a RELIABLE 400+bhp engine, then the only sensible answer is an LS lump :y
gm and reliability doesnt sound familiar to me ;D :y
ps: no one buys v8 engines to drive slow.. in that case weight matters!
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The GM LS series is probably the most reliable engine ever made :y
And as for the weight issue, a large displacement V8 produces a level of torque from idle that a four pot turbo shastbox can only dream of ;D . And as we all know, without torque, horsepower means nothing :y
Take the Monaro as an example, can be reliably supercharged to well over 500bhp, will reach the thick end of 170, even in standard tune, yet does barely 1500 rpm at 70mph (120kph). At that speed, your clit is probably doing nearer 4000rpm, and using almost as much fuel.
And knowing Renault parts prices, the V8 is cheaper to service too :y
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
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I'm sure 2woody will have more accurate figures, but its not really a problem to get 400 out of 1-3 with basic tuning naturally aspirated. Super charging 500hp ish.
Robsys monaro puts put 500 iirc, with a sooohoooHOOOOper charger and monkish mapping. Which runs better with a more manly fuel pump. :)
Good to see lots of chat, we all need to put our heads togther with a ls and omega shell and get it done!!!
Cars running 540 now at rear wheels 685 at fly 8)
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
3,2 weight ? Anyone?
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I see figures of between 150kg and 175kg on the interwebs, I believe the C20LET is about the same when you include the (heavy) turbo into it's figures.
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The GM LS series is probably the most reliable engine ever made :y
And as for the weight issue, a large displacement V8 produces a level of torque from idle that a four pot turbo shastbox can only dream of ;D . And as we all know, without torque, horsepower means nothing :y
Take the Monaro as an example, can be reliably supercharged to well over 500bhp, will reach the thick end of 170, even in standard tune, yet does barely 1500 rpm at 70mph (120kph). At that speed, your clit is probably doing nearer 4000rpm, and using almost as much fuel.
And knowing Renault parts prices, the V8 is cheaper to service too :y
my clit even 7K rpm consumes a0.00000.. fraction of a v8 ;D seriously at 120 must be around 3K (5th) will check tomorrow..
renault is produced here (factory in Bursa) so parts relatively cheap compared to omega.. even I can change engine at every oil change ;D (exaggerating of course)
now as for service, your v8 takes twice oil, twice sparks , everything twice :-\
days of big monsters are long gone.. may be not in America but here :(
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg.. and considering the axels, carrier weight and width for chasis will bring more weight to car :-\
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
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Ls will do more MPG then omega 3.0 and 3.2 v6 i get 36 out my one at 80 on motorways
Around a see 28.5 but never sort sort runs...
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
aluminium block v8 is not dissimilar weight to y32se or x30xe due to having an iron block. ;)
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
aluminium block v8 is not dissimilar weight to y32se or x30xe due to having an iron block. ;)
V6 lumps out of question anyway.. they are not race bred engines.. :-\
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
aluminium block v8 is not dissimilar weight to y32se or x30xe due to having an iron block. ;)
V6 lumps out of question anyway.. they are not race bred engines.. :-\
define a race bred engine?
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
aluminium block v8 is not dissimilar weight to y32se or x30xe due to having an iron block. ;)
V6 lumps out of question anyway.. they are not race bred engines.. :-\
define a race bred engine?
engines originally designed for race.. they are later put to production for daily use with lower power rating..
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
Can be done.....
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/118587-rats-1005hp-omega-v8.html
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LS7 with supercharger then ::)
...being run on Moonshine or jetfuel :y
Obviously the Renault 1.4 fourpot was developed especially for circuit racing, only being fitted to 7 billion(ish) cars for homogolation purposes :P
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
It is indeed, and has been done in the rats omega. But the heads are wider, being dohc. They definitely fitted a rack with that engine.
LS or LS? ;D.
Lexus is 4litre though? Although just as easily tunable. But then the Chevy v8 well, that's the one to have. But costs more.
Decisions decisions. :y
I suppose it depends which is most suitable to omega running gear. Cooling, Exhaust, Auxiliarys, ecu and security stuff....etc?
Not much matches a Chevy v8 though, its very hard to beat pound for pound on bhp. You might have to remove the box on a Chevy v8. Where as it definitely will have to come out with a dohc lump.
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
aluminium block v8 is not dissimilar weight to y32se or x30xe due to having an iron block. ;)
V6 lumps out of question anyway.. they are not race bred engines.. :-\
define a race bred engine?
engines originally designed for race.. they are later put to production for daily use with lower power rating..
Such as...? :)
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
if I would choose an engine for race it would be a japanese not gm built..
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LS1 = 188 kg Wet
M62B44 = 221 kg Dry (+ 9.15l of Oil)
C20XE = 145 kg Wet
Cant find the weight of a C20LET online, but I'd imagine marginally more than the C20XE for obvious reasons.
C20let around 130 kg..
How can it be lighter than the XE?
probably similiar all I can find was this.. may be light flywheel..
aluminium block v8 is not dissimilar weight to y32se or x30xe due to having an iron block. ;)
V6 lumps out of question anyway.. they are not race bred engines.. :-\
define a race bred engine?
engines originally designed for race.. they are later put to production for daily use with lower power rating..
Such as...? :)
just google :)
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Don't recall many Japanese engines being used in Nascar :-\ Surely if they're that good they would be everywhere...
Besides the LS family is alot less reliant on electronic black magic :y
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
It is indeed, and has been done in the rats omega. But the heads are wider, being dohc. They definitely fitted a rack with that engine.
LS or LS? ;D.
Lexus is 4litre though? Although just as easily tunable. But then the Chevy v8 well, that's the one to have. But costs more.
Decisions decisions. :y
I suppose it depends which is most suitable to omega running gear. Cooling, Exhaust, Auxiliarys, ecu and security stuff....etc?
Not much matches a Chevy v8 though, its very hard to beat pound for pound on bhp. You might have to remove the box on a Chevy v8. Where as it definitely will have to come out with a dohc lump.
Plus, they had to cut the chassis on the rats omega, although its not clear exactly where. Might have been to make room for a turbo, or to make room for the heads. Chevy v8 doesn't need a turbo though, so one less job. I guess.
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
if I would choose an engine for race it would be a japanese not gm built..
Honda VTEC no doubt? Dreadful, DREADFUL engines!
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Don't recall many Japanese engines being used in Nascar :-\ Surely if they're that good they would be everywhere...
you said reliability.. I wouldnt like to pump high volumes of oil on asphalt just in the beginning of race ;D :y
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Supercharger fits neatly on top as well 8)
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Don't recall many Japanese engines being used in Nascar :-\ Surely if they're that good they would be everywhere...
Besides the LS family is alot less reliant on electronic black magic :y
Nascar is an American race , isnt it ?
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Don't recall many Japanese engines being used in Nascar :-\ Surely if they're that good they would be everywhere...
Besides the LS family is alot less reliant on electronic black magic :y
NASCAR is a U.S. series.They are a tad patriotic over there. :)
As for cutting the chassis etc. I have an angle grinder and a set of panel beating hammers.no worries. :D ;D
No way imo,is any U.S. engine (or anything else in the field of engineering) going to be in the same league as a comparable Jap engine/ product.Its like comparing a harley to a Honda.
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
It is indeed, and has been done in the rats omega. But the heads are wider, being dohc. They definitely fitted a rack with that engine.
LS or LS? ;D .
Lexus is 4litre though? Although just as easily tunable. But then the Chevy v8 well, that's the one to have. But costs more.
Decisions decisions. :y
I suppose it depends which is most suitable to omega running gear. Cooling, Exhaust, Auxiliarys, ecu and security stuff....etc?
Not much matches a Chevy v8 though, its very hard to beat pound for pound on bhp. You might have to remove the box on a Chevy v8. Where as it definitely will have to come out with a dohc lump.
Plus, they had to cut the chassis on the rats omega, although its not clear exactly where. Might have been to make room for a turbo, or to make room for the heads. Chevy v8 doesn't need a turbo though, so one less job. I guess.
why do you think they choose Lexus?
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If you read the link cem, I'm sure it tells you. ;)
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
if I would choose an engine for race it would be a japanese not gm built..
Honda VTEC no doubt? Dreadful, DREADFUL engines!
I'm afraid there are lots of enthusiasts thinking different ::)
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Probably had a smashed up one lying around ::)
Technically Albs, but, hand on heart which would you prefer...
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
if I would choose an engine for race it would be a japanese not gm built..
Honda VTEC no doubt? Dreadful, DREADFUL engines!
I'm afraid there are lots of enthusiasts thinking different ::)
A lot of people think having sex with animals is great fun. It doesn't mean it is right! ;)
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
if I would choose an engine for race it would be a japanese not gm built..
Honda VTEC no doubt? Dreadful, DREADFUL engines!
I'm afraid there are lots of enthusiasts thinking different ::)
Spotty Yoofs know nothing. Some people eat semolina, doesn't make it gourmet though (or edible) ::)
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
Simply fitting "a v8" is not the aim. A v8 with double the bhp of a 3.2 is the only worthwhile project.
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
That's that sorted then :y 'bout bloody time ::)
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Me,If I were thinking of a similar project I would be buying an old lexus LS400 (plenty around the £500 mark) and having a look at dropping its engine into an Omega.A really well engineered Japanese quadcam v8,rather than an old over engineered U.S. boat anchor. :)
As already said in the thread, Quad Cam engines are way too bulky, and from a performance POV, not much touches the LSx engine for size:power ratio.
if I would choose an engine for race it would be a japanese not gm built..
Honda VTEC no doubt? Dreadful, DREADFUL engines!
I'm afraid there are lots of enthusiasts thinking different ::)
Spotty Yoofs know nothing. Some people eat semolina, doesn't make it gourmet though (or edible) ::)
a debate about honda engines quality will be unnecessary imo..
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For once I agree with you Cem :y
Any Honda engine is totally unsuitable for this proposed purpose, so any further discussion of them is a waste of oxygen :y
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
Simply fitting "a v8" is not the aim. A v8 with double the bhp of a 3.2 is the only worthwhile project.
usage of an American gearbox doesnt necessarily mean their production quality is better.. may be they find it cheaper or may some other reasons.. Japanese can always do better.. just look at the world sale ratings for jap and Us cars.. ;)
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
That's that sorted then :y 'bout bloody time ::)
Well, the current problem is finding an LS1 with a manual box for reasonable money.
I know someone with a t56 box not far from here though. I wonder if he'll notice if it goes missing....? ::)
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
Simply fitting "a v8" is not the aim. A v8 with double the bhp of a 3.2 is the only worthwhile project.
usage of an American gearbox doesnt necessarily mean their production quality is better.. may be they find it cheaper or may some other reasons.. Japanese can always do better.. just look at the world sale ratings for jap and Us cars.. ;)
have a look at google cem :y
First consideration is will it take the power? Yes it will.
Second, will it fit? Yes it will.
....as the title of the thread, it has been done. ;)
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For once I agree with you Cem :y
Any Honda engine is totally unsuitable for this proposed purpose, so any further discussion of them is a waste of oxygen :y
I would still take a glance at this
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/hondav12.jpg)
from
http://privaterunners.com/2011/05/06/v12-honda/ (http://privaterunners.com/2011/05/06/v12-honda/)
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and for Nascar ;)
" Modified 5VZ for NASCAR is also under development and testing" by TMC (toyota motor company)
http://www.toysport.com/technical%20information/Toyota%20Racing%20Engines.htm (http://www.toysport.com/technical%20information/Toyota%20Racing%20Engines.htm)
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This thread has taken a nosedive! ;D
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
Simply fitting "a v8" is not the aim. A v8 with double the bhp of a 3.2 is the only worthwhile project.
usage of an American gearbox doesnt necessarily mean their production quality is better.. may be they find it cheaper or may some other reasons.. Japanese can always do better.. just look at the world sale ratings for jap and Us cars.. ;)
have a look at google cem :y
First consideration is will it take the power? Yes it will.
Second, will it fit? Yes it will.
....as the title of the thread, it has been done. ;)
and readily available in scrapyards ;D
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Bloody statistics again ::) The Yanks have simply produced a well matched gearbox to suit their engine :y
Don't forget, the only reason the Japs do mass production is because the American rebuilt Japanese industry following WW2, using Henry Fords principles of 'Just in time' manufacturing :y
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Bloody statistics again ::) The Yanks have simply produced a well matched gearbox to suit their engine :y
Don't forget, the only reason the Japs do mass production is because the American rebuilt Japanese industry following WW2, using Henry Fords principles of 'Just in time' manufacturing :y
Well.. Well..
Japs had mass production long before the start of War.. And they had everything except the resources of US and the atomic bomb..
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Oh that reminds me, Thankyou cem.
Main reason for NOT using a Lexus lump is the gear box. Only a tremac t56 gear box will take that amount of power in manual form. There is no bell housing in production that will mate a gm box to a Lexus lump, so Rats had to make one.
Very very expensive. And makes it pointless fitting the Lexus engine.
Simply fitting "a v8" is not the aim. A v8 with double the bhp of a 3.2 is the only worthwhile project.
usage of an American gearbox doesnt necessarily mean their production quality is better.. may be they find it cheaper or may some other reasons.. Japanese can always do better.. just look at the world sale ratings for jap and Us cars.. ;)
have a look at google cem :y
First consideration is will it take the power? Yes it will.
Second, will it fit? Yes it will.
....as the title of the thread, it has been done. ;)
and readily available in scrapyards ;D
indeed they are in the states. 2 a penny.
Over here however, they seem to start at about 4k with box.
LSx truck or iron block engines are cheaper afaik. But heavier, and the inlet and aniliarys don't match so well, Afaict.
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Are any of the following engines of any use;
The 5.7 as fitted to the 1992-1996 Chevrolet Caprice
or
The 4.6 Ford modular V8 as fitted to the 1998+ Ford Crown Victoria / Lincoln Town Car?
I'm guessing probably not the second one, and possibly only the first?
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Ford? Josh please. ;)
Other option too early to be LS. Afaict.
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Probably a LT
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;D
I ask, as I'll be shipping some vehicles from New York to Soton in 8-12 weeks or so. The more vehicles I bring, the cheaper the shipping. I'll be using a RORO sevice, meaning the vehicle must be capable or moving under their own steam. But if you could pick up a cheap V8 it could cost as little as £300 to ship it here. My vehicles will eventually be UK reg'd, unsure of the process if you want to bring one here for the parts though, i.e. with tax etc?
But worth considering perhaps?
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So New York area, must be drive able. Off to eBay. ;)
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Actually Chris, it's something Al and I had discussed...look at Copart USA. They have a yard in NY :y
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I have a pallet of LS engines coming across the pond as we speak.
my own thoughts are .....
highly-strung 4-valve engines are fine and produce the power they're designed to, but they all come from emmissions-land, so you're never going to find one with decent horsepower in standard form. Tuning only chases the peak power speed upwards, so that's out. But all this is quite literally blown into the weeds by any of the fuel-injected Chevy motors, even the earlier LT.
Consider :- for my £5000, I bought a Holden GTS with an LS1 already fitted. I challenge you to find me another car which will carry five people with ease, will pull away from traffic lights in sixth gear, clear six seconds to sixty mph and return 32mpg without trying. (not all at the same time, obviously). As well as that, it sounds like the approach of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. My mates at the last trackday I did in it reckoned that it was just about the most butch car ever built.
The biggest problem I have is that if an LS1 Omega is to be built, it must come in under £5k or so, otherwise you might just as well go out and by another Holden, no ?
Technically, I think its no real problem. I'm certainly not concerned by the steering box issue or cooling. I've got a good recipe for rear axle, driveshafts, brakes, engine and transmission. For what its worth, I'm not sure that the Tremec T56 is the way forward, there are better solutions in T5 and TR6060 with much superior change quality.
Happy to do a deal on my spare LS1. I'd actually be quite happy to build the car for you.
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About time you brought a 2.5DTi to Blighty's shores young Mr Wyatt.... Should then simply be a case of bolting / pop riveting / sellotaping the steering wheel on the correct side. Easy peasy... ::)
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Actually Chris, it's something Al and I had discussed...look at Copart USA. They have a yard in NY :y
Yes he did mention it, quietly. ;)
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I have a pallet of LS engines coming across the pond as we speak.
my own thoughts are .....
highly-strung 4-valve engines are fine and produce the power they're designed to, but they all come from emmissions-land, so you're never going to find one with decent horsepower in standard form. Tuning only chases the peak power speed upwards, so that's out. But all this is quite literally blown into the weeds by any of the fuel-injected Chevy motors, even the earlier LT.
Consider :- for my £5000, I bought a Holden GTS with an LS1 already fitted. I challenge you to find me another car which will carry five people with ease, will pull away from traffic lights in sixth gear, clear six seconds to sixty mph and return 32mpg without trying. (not all at the same time, obviously). As well as that, it sounds like the approach of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. My mates at the last trackday I did in it reckoned that it was just about the most butch car ever built.
The biggest problem I have is that if an LS1 Omega is to be built, it must come in under £5k or so, otherwise you might just as well go out and by another Holden, no ?
Technically, I think its no real problem. I'm certainly not concerned by the steering box issue or cooling. I've got a good recipe for rear axle, driveshafts, brakes, engine and transmission. For what its worth, I'm not sure that the Tremec T56 is the way forward, there are better solutions in T5 and TR6060 with much superior change quality.
Happy to do a deal on my spare LS1. I'd actually be quite happy to build the car for you.
Yes, Holden based v8 cars are dropping in price. Afaict. I think it would have to be sub 3k on the road, to be worthwhile project. Tbh. Which is a tall order.
But on the other hand, this isn't a cost conscious project anyway.
Plus there's insuring the bugger. Gulp.
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Although then again, the main reason for using the omega is the toy level. No remote window and sunroof locking. No rear blind. No cc. No memory functions. I'd get withdrawal symptoms without a colour nav screen. Etc etc on a gts. Vxr8 is abut better, but still not as complete as an omega in that respect.
My personal remit, is a one car does all approach. Having done track work on bikes it's clear a track orientated vehichke is obviously going to be way to focused and unpleasant on the road.
This is a fast road car project, comfort, toys, fast powerful lazy motor, and I tight accurate chassis bring vital. A gt car I suppose would be more accutrate.
Having been driven in 2woodys gts it's clear, this is a project worth persuing IMO. It has an engine and brake and suspendion package that totally defy the weight of the car. It's tight, accurate, agile, bloody quick and massively comfortable. As is Robs Monaro of course. Impressive. ...very impressive compared to an omega.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPqB8gWrA7A :D
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ok..assume that you solved all mechanical problems of ftting a v8 and a suitable gearbox(model still a question in my mind) how will you solve odo,dials,mid etc etc.. :-\
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPqB8gWrA7A :D
That's a crash damaged gts by the looks. (on a mobile)
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ok..assume that you solved all mechanical problems of ftting a v8 and a suitable gearbox(model still a question in my mind) how will you solve odo,dials,mid etc etc.. :-\
Same as I always do with anything electrical. Pm TheBoy or Kevin Wood. :-[ ;D
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There are also aftermarket modules available for efi and abc/tc if you want to be Gay about it cem. ;)
...although abs and tc shouldn't be too hard for someone who knows whet they're doing. :-\
Efi, v8 ecu usually goes with the engine. But shouldn't be too hard with a mega squirt if it came to it, going by past conversations over a curry. :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPqB8gWrA7A :D
That's a crash damaged gts by the looks. (on a mobile)
Chevy Lumina SS ::) much the same car as 2woodys :y
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There are also aftermarket modules available for efi and abc/tc if you want to be Gay about it cem. ;)
...although abs and tc shouldn't be too hard for someone who knows whet they're doing. :-\
Efi, v8 ecu usually goes with the engine. But shouldn't be too hard with a mega squirt if it came to it, going by past conversations over a curry. :)
Pretty easy to sort with the two wiring diagrams and both cars/looms in front of you I would have thought :-\
Basically you remove the plug from the Omega body to the engine ECU, and transfer the pins to the correct locations on the plug from the donor loom. This should then plug straight onto the V8 ecu and hopefully all work as expected :y
Not that anything is ever that simple :-\ is it ::)
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ok..assume that you solved all mechanical problems of ftting a v8 and a suitable gearbox(model still a question in my mind) how will you solve odo,dials,mid etc etc.. :-\
The mechanical problems are worthy of more consideration than that though.
With a steering box removed, for example, I am assuming the engine will fit and the gear box lever will line up, although I've seen talk that it sits a bit too far forward. Possibly fowling 1st 3rd and 5th. Won't find out what dictates that until we offer it up.
I am assuming also, that a Nissan Almeria(?) steering rack can be made to fit, as that's what rats used.
But then there's the question of the rearward bush on omega wishbones. It's unreliable. Degrades quickly , and I suspect doesn't give a particularly accurat feel to the steering even when new.
So before sticking the lump in, it might be wise to discuss subframe options for a different design rear bush if one exists?
Are Carlton or senator options worth a look? I presume Holden floor pan options are too wide and too different a design?
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IF a Commodore/Monaro subframe could be persuaded to fit, then that should see most of the steering and suspension issues resolved, as you could use the entire front suspension, all of which can be upgraded quite easily :y (Pedders and others do bushing kits that replace all the rubber joints from the front end).
What this arrangement would do to the geometry is anyones guess though :-\
The other problem, is that the steering column exits the bulkhead at a very specific point. Is this compatible with a steering rack? And by doing away with the steering box, would the column foul the exhaust anyway.
I suppose it would be possible to replace the chassis rails, bulkhead and front end of the transmission tunnel with
Holden ones, allowing the entire Holden front end to be used from the steering column forward.
A substantially rear ended Monaro might be the onestopshop for this :-\
The simplest solution is to use as much of the Omega as possible... I need to get those arms fitted and put some miles on them...
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Senny/Carlton subframes are configured for inline engines, so might not be much use.
Having said that, would an earlier subframe from any of the following chassis be suitable:
VL, VN or VP.
And how different, if at all are they from the Senator B subframe? :-\
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Found another one, on me travels...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=105700.0
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Do keep up at the back ;D that's the car being built in the first post ::)
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Corvette , now were talking :P :P
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ok..assume that you solved all mechanical problems of ftting a v8 and a suitable gearbox(model still a question in my mind) how will you solve odo,dials,mid etc etc.. :-\
The mechanical problems are worthy of more consideration than that though.
With a steering box removed, for example, I am assuming the engine will fit and the gear box lever will line up, although I've seen talk that it sits a bit too far forward. Possibly fowling 1st 3rd and 5th. Won't find out what dictates that until we offer it up.
I am assuming also, that a Nissan Almeria(?) steering rack can be made to fit, as that's what rats used.
But then there's the question of the rearward bush on omega wishbones. It's unreliable. Degrades quickly , and I suspect doesn't give a particularly accurat feel to the steering even when new.
So before sticking the lump in, it might be wise to discuss subframe options for a different design rear bush if one exists?
Are Carlton or senator options worth a look? I presume Holden floor pan options are too wide and too different a design?
bloke who done converion in poland use monaro rear subframe
(http://www.users.bestiales.pl/mariosomegos/PIC_0028.JPG)
(http://www.users.bestiales.pl/mariosomegos/PIC_0029.JPG)
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Could it be that simple?
Marry a Monaro engine and subframes with running gear, to an Omega body?
By that I mean, take a monaro preferably crash damaged, effectively just lift the body off leaving the wheels, subframes, engine, gear box and drive train on the floor, and place an omega body on top?
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ok..assume that you solved all mechanical problems of ftting a v8 and a suitable gearbox(model still a question in my mind) how will you solve odo,dials,mid etc etc.. :-\
The mechanical problems are worthy of more consideration than that though.
With a steering box removed, for example, I am assuming the engine will fit and the gear box lever will line up, although I've seen talk that it sits a bit too far forward. Possibly fowling 1st 3rd and 5th. Won't find out what dictates that until we offer it up.
I am assuming also, that a Nissan Almeria(?) steering rack can be made to fit, as that's what rats used.
But then there's the question of the rearward bush on omega wishbones. It's unreliable. Degrades quickly , and I suspect doesn't give a particularly accurat feel to the steering even when new.
So before sticking the lump in, it might be wise to discuss subframe options for a different design rear bush if one exists?
Are Carlton or senator options worth a look? I presume Holden floor pan options are too wide and too different a design?
bloke who done converion in poland use monaro rear subframe
That's great info Serek. Thankyou.
Any more photos or links? I was actually talking about the front subframe, being honest, to try and change that front wishbone rear bush on the omega for something more reliable.
Do you think the monaro front subframe would fit too? :)
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Bolt off, bolt on :y
Will post a couple of links int morning :y
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Think this is what you're looking for...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-VB-VC-VH-VK-COMMODORE-6CYL-8CYL-K-FRAME-CROSSMEMBER-NOS-GENUINE-/170971973076?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ceb945d4&_uhb=1#shId (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-VB-VC-VH-VK-COMMODORE-6CYL-8CYL-K-FRAME-CROSSMEMBER-NOS-GENUINE-/170971973076?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ceb945d4&_uhb=1#shId)
Only issue is whether or not the column lines up with the input shaft on the rack :-\
Ps, I have asked about postage ::)
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This is the later one, so 2004-2006/7...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200564177240&fromMakeTrack=true (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200564177240&fromMakeTrack=true)
Previous post is for an earlier version, mid eighties :-\ Senator/Carlton era :-\
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Think this is what you're looking for...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-VB-VC-VH-VK-COMMODORE-6CYL-8CYL-K-FRAME-CROSSMEMBER-NOS-GENUINE-/170971973076?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ceb945d4&_uhb=1#shId (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-VB-VC-VH-VK-COMMODORE-6CYL-8CYL-K-FRAME-CROSSMEMBER-NOS-GENUINE-/170971973076?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ceb945d4&_uhb=1#shId)
Only issue is whether or not the column lines up with the input shaft on the rack :-\
Ps, I have asked about postage ::)
They don't :'(
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Think this is what you're looking for...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-VB-VC-VH-VK-COMMODORE-6CYL-8CYL-K-FRAME-CROSSMEMBER-NOS-GENUINE-/170971973076?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ceb945d4&_uhb=1#shId (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOLDEN-VB-VC-VH-VK-COMMODORE-6CYL-8CYL-K-FRAME-CROSSMEMBER-NOS-GENUINE-/170971973076?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ceb945d4&_uhb=1#shId)
Only issue is whether or not the column lines up with the input shaft on the rack :-\
Ps, I have asked about postage ::)
They don't :'(
Don't line up, or don't post to UK?
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Subframe swap is a no-go.
On the front, the Omega B chassis rails are closer together than on the Commodore - about three inches.
At the rear, the subframe is identical APART FROM a couple of extra inches in width. You'd just use an Omega B subframe together with the larger car's diff and driveshafts if you want to be anal about it.
The Commodore uses a steering rack mounted behind the front axle - definitely NOT the thing to do if you're changing over from a steering box. I remain convinced that you wouldn't need to go down this route, tho.
Probably the best way to go for a steering rack conversion is to use an E36 forward-mounted rack, together with the struts and make wishbones to suit. That way, you're preserving the all-important rack-to-hub-to-strut geometry. A front-mounted rack also means that you don't really need a super-compliant bush either
On the Omega A, the compliant bust is mounted at the other end of the wishbone. This will have been reversed for Omega B in the name of better handling. Considering the rearward steering box position, a compliant rear bush gives some passive toe-in when cornering.
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Having been driven in 2woodys gts it's clear, this is a project worth persuing IMO. It has an engine and brake and suspendion package that totally defy the weight of the car. It's tight, accurate, agile, bloody quick and massively comfortable. As is Robs Monaro of course. Impressive. ...very impressive compared to an omega.
From the other side, the Holden engine and brakes are great, but the suspension package is a whole order of magnitude worse than Omega B. Ok, so it uses a steering rack, but the front suspension design is from Senator A - i.e. before even the Omega A - it still uses a separate track-control arm and threaded toe-link. With a better front suspension design, it would be great.
I run mine on standard front springs and Omega B self-levelling rear springs, which make the rear quite adjustable - don't forget it weight a couple of hundred kilos less than an Omega B
In comparison, id say that its not quite as tight, not quite as accurate and not quite as agile as my MV6, but the performance, economy and braking are far in advance of the European car.
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ok.. assume that I solved the cooling problems of v6 with different coolant pumps(s) , different rad, different thermostat..
Changed the pistons and rods with special material (which I can solve all these here without a huge cost) and purchased a supercharger (thats not cheap).. whats the actual problem of bottom end ? better journals, better crank ?
ps: changing the v6 to a larger volume v8 here legally is a long job.. apart from mechanical problems you need to include a project signed by mechanical engineers organization.. later need to pass quality control, mot, traffic etc etc.. Apart from the cost the legalization process is nearly impossible which keeps me away.. :(
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Comadore being different to monaro?
Monaro fits, comadore doesn't...?
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Btw, I'm fairly sure omega front subframe has 6 mounting bolts. 3 each side, iirc?
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Found it, no go on front subframe it's completely different. Assuming gto is the same as monaro?
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/117000-halleluja-catera-v8-project-underway-3.html
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::) don't post :y
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ok..assume that you solved all mechanical problems of ftting a v8 and a suitable gearbox(model still a question in my mind) how will you solve odo,dials,mid etc etc.. :-\
The mechanical problems are worthy of more consideration than that though.
With a steering box removed, for example, I am assuming the engine will fit and the gear box lever will line up, although I've seen talk that it sits a bit too far forward. Possibly fowling 1st 3rd and 5th. Won't find out what dictates that until we offer it up.
I am assuming also, that a Nissan Almeria(?) steering rack can be made to fit, as that's what rats used.
But then there's the question of the rearward bush on omega wishbones. It's unreliable. Degrades quickly , and I suspect doesn't give a particularly accurat feel to the steering even when new.
So before sticking the lump in, it might be wise to discuss subframe options for a different design rear bush if one exists?
Are Carlton or senator options worth a look? I presume Holden floor pan options are too wide and too different a design?
bloke who done converion in poland use monaro rear subframe
That's great info Serek. Thankyou.
Any more photos or links? I was actually talking about the front subframe, being honest, to try and change that front wishbone rear bush on the omega for something more reliable.
Do you think the monaro front subframe would fit too? :)
will ask him for more info :y
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Subframe swap is a no-go.
On the front, the Omega B chassis rails are closer together than on the Commodore - about three inches.
At the rear, the subframe is identical APART FROM a couple of extra inches in width. You'd just use an Omega B subframe together with the larger car's diff and driveshafts if you want to be anal about it.
The Commodore uses a steering rack mounted behind the front axle - definitely NOT the thing to do if you're changing over from a steering box. I remain convinced that you wouldn't need to go down this route, tho.
Probably the best way to go for a steering rack conversion is to use an E36 forward-mounted rack, together with the struts and make wishbones to suit. That way, you're preserving the all-important rack-to-hub-to-strut geometry. A front-mounted rack also means that you don't really need a super-compliant bush either
On the Omega A, the compliant bust is mounted at the other end of the wishbone. This will have been reversed for Omega B in the name of better handling. Considering the rearward steering box position, a compliant rear bush gives some passive toe-in when cornering.
get one off compact version lots people fit those to m3 as they better angle
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The V8 in the Omega/Catera is also mounted off-centre by approximately 1.5-inches towards the passengers side (this is quite common is a lot of V8 automobiles such as the older V8 5-series BMW) to provide additional clearence for the steering gear. If you look closely at the engine mouting base plates on the V8 Omega subframe, you may notice this. The GTO uses rack and pinion steering which provides more clearence. I am not 100% certain, but I believe that the GTO's engine is on-centre.
Right, forgetting the Monaro/Commodore subframes ::) (posted the links as I had been looking for a half decent pick of one, and those new/old stock ones were near the top of the list), the link the Chris has found might be the holy grail in its detail. Take one empty Omega engine bay, offer up an LS lump, short engine would do, then modify the engine mounts so that the engine sits as far over to the nearside as possible. Simples :y
Using the existing steering gear/suspension layout will retain the steering geometry which can only make life easier :y
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNGyuZh1EPU :y
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Sounds good, but 2pots missing ::)
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Sounds good, but 2pots missing ::)
Sounds better than 4 pots missing ::) :-[ ;D
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Well, you're all wrong.
I had my nose under a Monaro bonnet on Tuesday afternoon, 7l with 2 enormous turbos, in excess of 1000bhp. Those turbos won't fit under the bonnet of an Omega.
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Keep your turbos. Supercharger, if at all. :)
I'd be happy with 400 bhp.
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Keep your turbos. Supercharger, if at all. :)
I'd be happy with 400 bhp.
I reckon the unforced induction torque will be enough to not "suffer" too much in the way of turbo lag.... ....but then, everything is relative, so unless you are getting your full 1000bhp, it will seem flat ;D
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Well, you're all wrong.
I had my nose under a Monaro bonnet on Tuesday afternoon, 7l with 2 enormous turbos, in excess of 1000bhp. Those turbos won't fit under the bonnet of an Omega.
A yellow one?
Cut out the front of the inner wings, lose the SL pump and horns, replace the wheel arch liners with heatshields, and move the remaining contents of the engine bay to the boot :y Simples ::)
Supercharging is much more space efficient :y
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Well, you're all wrong.
I had my nose under a Monaro bonnet on Tuesday afternoon, 7l with 2 enormous turbos, in excess of 1000bhp. Those turbos won't fit under the bonnet of an Omega.
A yellow one?
Cut out the front of the inner wings, lose the SL pump and horns, replace the wheel arch liners with heatshields, and move the remaining contents of the engine bay to the boot :y Simples ::)
Supercharging is much more space efficient :y
Don't deny you wouldn't fancy a monster like that under your right foot :P
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Pictures?
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Well, you're all wrong.
I had my nose under a Monaro bonnet on Tuesday afternoon, 7l with 2 enormous turbos, in excess of 1000bhp. Those turbos won't fit under the bonnet of an Omega.
A yellow one?
Cut out the front of the inner wings, lose the SL pump and horns, replace the wheel arch liners with heatshields, and move the remaining contents of the engine bay to the boot :y Simples ::)
Supercharging is much more space efficient :y
and power is there all the time unlike turbo however supercharger absorbs power-Turbo doesnt :y
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http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/europesmostpowerfulmonaro.html (http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/europesmostpowerfulmonaro.html) 8)
But not as cool as...
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This...
http://used.cars.networkq.co.uk/used-cars/vxr8/6/2%20V8/vehicle/1868191 (http://used.cars.networkq.co.uk/used-cars/vxr8/6/2%20V8/vehicle/1868191)
8)
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http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/europesmostpowerfulmonaro.html (http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/europesmostpowerfulmonaro.html) 8)
But not as cool as...
Link leads to...
http://youtu.be/iPLSkzgPs80
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Excuse me a moment ::)
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Excuse me a moment ::)
;D ok go on then ;D
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http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/europesmostpowerfulmonaro.html (http://www.monkfishperformance.co.uk/europesmostpowerfulmonaro.html) 8)
But not as cool as...
Link leads to...
http://youtu.be/iPLSkzgPs80
That's a big pair of snails. ;D
Still, Id like to see it try to do that all afternoon! Tears before bedtime at that level of tuning, surely? ???
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Excuse me a moment ::)
;D ok go on then ;D
Best take this with you, too. :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_07eHXTPw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_07eHXTPw)
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American Pie springs to mind :-[ :-X
That Caterham is built for tunnels 8)
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Front suspension doesn't look too great on monaro as 2woody said. Couple of control arms is all. :-\
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.motonews.pl/forum/%3Fop%3Dfvt%26t%3D187517%26start%3D60%0A
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4Qbp8ydsE8 :)