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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 17:32:55

Title: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 17:32:55
At considerable cost  :'( I've just had a couple of tyres fitted to the back of my R Class.  :'(
It seems the fitter has used a box of stick-on weights to balance it, some stuck on each other. I need to add up the actual weight. Surely a new tyre shouldn't need so much to balance it  :-\ Is it the tyre, the way it's been fitted ..... isn't there something about the coloured dots you see on the side wall to do with balance of the actual tyre  :-\  :-\ I've only pottered about town so far, so no idea what it's like at speed.

Anyone with a knowledgeable opinion?  :-\  :-\  :-\ And do I take it back to them to re-fit so it only needs half a box  ::)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 January 2013, 17:48:36
Yep, tyre red and yellow dots show maximum and minimum weight points, IIRC, and in an ideal world the fitter would align these to specific points on the rim to minimise weight required. Not sure how much difference it makes in the real world, though?
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 January 2013, 17:51:10
Straight from the horse's mouth. http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165 (http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: feeutfo on 18 January 2013, 17:55:04
And did I here the waits naw hav to be lead free. So it new takes twise as meny wiats to balence the weal.

Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: TheBoy on 18 January 2013, 17:56:18
And did I here the waits naw hav to be lead free. So it new takes twise as meny wiats to balence the weal.

Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)
Have you been drinking?
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: feeutfo on 18 January 2013, 17:58:02
And did I here the waits naw hav to be lead free. So it new takes twise as meny wiats to balence the weal.

Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)
Have you been drinking?
Hmm?
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Stallion on 18 January 2013, 17:59:18
And did I here the waits naw hav to be lead free. So it new takes twise as meny wiats to balence the weal.

Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)
Have you been drinking?
;D ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Nick W on 18 January 2013, 18:04:48
It might be that the fitter doesn't understand how to use the balancer. Using the wrong settings on a sophisticated machine will lead to all sorts of odd measurements. That's why I didn't balance my own front tyres; I haven't a clue how the damn thing works.
That's the good option!

The other is that you have a severely buckled wheel that they didn't want to tell you about, and hoped you wouldn't notice the necessary weights
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:10:46
...

The other is that you have a severely buckled wheel that they didn't want to tell you about, and hoped you wouldn't notice the necessary weights

That thought had crossed my mind too ...... but the old tyre/rim didn't have so much weight added  ;)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:11:23
......
Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)

They were prior warned not to.  :y :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:12:27
And did I here the waits naw hav to be lead free. So it new takes twise as meny wiats to balence the weal.

Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)
Have you been drinking?

Not much difference from normal  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:26:38
Straight from the horse's mouth. http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165 (http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165)

Thanks Kevin
The yellow dot is virtually next to the tyre valve on both wheels. The wheel in question has 95 grams of weight  ....... seems a little excessive to me  :-\
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Lazydocker on 18 January 2013, 18:29:30
Straight from the horse's mouth. http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165 (http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165)

Thanks Kevin
The yellow dot is virtually next to the tyre valve on both wheels. The wheel in question has 95 grams of weight  ....... seems a little excessive to me  :-\

Depends... The cheaper tyres tend to need more weights as a general rule ::)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: feeutfo on 18 January 2013, 18:33:55
......
Just be thamkfull thay didmt yous those poxy clip on efforts that take the piant of. :)

They were prior warned not to.  :y :y
Excellent answer. :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 January 2013, 18:39:14
Straight from the horse's mouth. http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165 (http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=165)

Thanks Kevin
The yellow dot is virtually next to the tyre valve on both wheels. The wheel in question has 95 grams of weight  ....... seems a little excessive to me  :-\

 :o :o  opps..  you are lucky he didnt use a kg instead ;D
 
use another tyre shop that knows the job..   :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:42:57
....

Depends... The cheaper tyres tend to need more weights as a general rule ::)

Khumos on originally & Bridgestones fitted ....... because I wanted tyres (it's snowing & the old tyres were fubar'd) and they were available- but £470 for two tyres wasn't cheap  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:44:26
......
 
use another tyre shop that knows the job..   :y

Done by the very same place that would relieve you £638.41 for a 'B service'  ??? ;)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 January 2013, 18:50:15
......
 
use another tyre shop that knows the job..   :y

Done by the very same place that would relieve you £638.41 for a 'B service'  ??? ;)

any tyre asking for more than 40 grs is a problem.. either the wheel has a problem or the tyre needs turning..  in rare cases cheapo brands my need more than 50 grs :-\
 
 
I bet tyre is not seated properly..
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 18:52:00
......
 
use another tyre shop that knows the job..   :y

Done by the very same place that would relieve you £638.41 for a 'B service'  ??? ;)

any tyre asking for more than 40 grs is a problem.. either the wheel has a problem or the tyre needs turning..  in rare cases cheapo brands my need more than 50 grs :-\

Thanks Cem. I'll ring them tomorrow & see what they have to say.  ;)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 January 2013, 19:12:57
......
 
use another tyre shop that knows the job..   :y

Done by the very same place that would relieve you £638.41 for a 'B service'  ??? ;)

any tyre asking for more than 40 grs is a problem.. either the wheel has a problem or the tyre needs turning..  in rare cases cheapo brands my need more than 50 grs :-\

Thanks Cem. I'll ring them tomorrow & see what they have to say.  ;)

just talked to a tyre shop owner (which I decided to work with him after trying more than 20 recommended shops) he agreed with me.. good brands max 40-45 gr.. chineese brands sometimes needs 60-70 grs.. but these tyres are faullty he said..
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 19:20:57
......
 
use another tyre shop that knows the job..   :y

Done by the very same place that would relieve you £638.41 for a 'B service'  ??? ;)

any tyre asking for more than 40 grs is a problem.. either the wheel has a problem or the tyre needs turning..  in rare cases cheapo brands my need more than 50 grs :-\

Thanks Cem. I'll ring them tomorrow & see what they have to say.  ;)

just talked to a tyre shop owner (which I decided to work with him after trying more than 20 recommended shops) he agreed with me.. good brands max 40-45 gr.. chineese brands sometimes needs 60-70 grs.. but these tyres are faullty he said..

Thanks again .......
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Omegatoy on 18 January 2013, 19:39:32
Andy, next time you look at the amount of weights check where they are, a poorly trained or a person with  no training will often "counterbalance" a new tyre,seen it loads of times,when you have been trained or taught properly, you learn how to sort it, when its counterbalanced you end up putting loads of weight on it!!

brief expalanation of counterbalancing,you spun the wheel up and it told you to put 25g of weight opposite the valve, so you do it and then spin it up again,it now tells you to put 10gr of weights right by the valve, spin up again and because its moved the dynamics it now tells you to put 10 gr of weight in the middle of the two previous weights! this can go on about 3 or 4 times before the machine says its balanced!
 :'(
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 20:14:03
Andy, next time you look at the amount of weights check where they are, a poorly trained or a person with  no training will often "counterbalance" a new tyre,seen it loads of times,when you have been trained or taught properly, you learn how to sort it, when its counterbalanced you end up putting loads of weight on it!!

brief expalanation of counterbalancing,you spun the wheel up and it told you to put 25g of weight opposite the valve, so you do it and then spin it up again,it now tells you to put 10gr of weights right by the valve, spin up again and because its moved the dynamics it now tells you to put 10 gr of weight in the middle of the two previous weights! this can go on about 3 or 4 times before the machine says its balanced!
 :'(

All these weights are close to the valve .....  ???
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: henryd on 18 January 2013, 20:50:01
....

Depends... The cheaper tyres tend to need more weights as a general rule ::)

Khumos on originally & Bridgestones fitted ....... because I wanted tyres (it's snowing & the old tyres were fubar'd) and they were available- but £470 for two tyres wasn't cheap  :'(  :'(

Christ,what size are they ? ???
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: SMD on 18 January 2013, 20:56:02
 :o  I'm having trouble parting with £440 for 4 tyres
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Omegatoy on 18 January 2013, 20:59:25
Andy, next time you look at the amount of weights check where they are, a poorly trained or a person with  no training will often "counterbalance" a new tyre,seen it loads of times,when you have been trained or taught properly, you learn how to sort it, when its counterbalanced you end up putting loads of weight on it!!

brief expalanation of counterbalancing,you spun the wheel up and it told you to put 25g of weight opposite the valve, so you do it and then spin it up again,it now tells you to put 10gr of weights right by the valve, spin up again and because its moved the dynamics it now tells you to put 10 gr of weight in the middle of the two previous weights! this can go on about 3 or 4 times before the machine says its balanced!
 :'(

All these weights are close to the valve .....  ???
would guess "if the tyre is correctly seated "that you have an egg shaped wheel then mate,or a bad new tyre!!
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 January 2013, 21:17:00
Andy, next time you look at the amount of weights check where they are, a poorly trained or a person with  no training will often "counterbalance" a new tyre,seen it loads of times,when you have been trained or taught properly, you learn how to sort it, when its counterbalanced you end up putting loads of weight on it!!

brief expalanation of counterbalancing,you spun the wheel up and it told you to put 25g of weight opposite the valve, so you do it and then spin it up again,it now tells you to put 10gr of weights right by the valve, spin up again and because its moved the dynamics it now tells you to put 10 gr of weight in the middle of the two previous weights! this can go on about 3 or 4 times before the machine says its balanced!
 :'(

All these weights are close to the valve .....  ???

tyre not properly seated or he was lazy to correct the wheel problem..  in snowy days tyre shops are so crowded that balancers become exhausted and sometimes want to quit the job or finish it quickly.. :-\ 
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 22:00:12
....

Depends... The cheaper tyres tend to need more weights as a general rule ::)

Khumos on originally & Bridgestones fitted ....... because I wanted tyres (it's snowing & the old tyres were fubar'd) and they were available- but £470 for two tyres wasn't cheap  :'(  :'(

Christ,what size are they ? ???

255/55/19 W rated
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 22:01:39
:o  I'm having trouble parting with £440 for 4 tyres

Believe me, it hurt!  :'(

I also could do with a pair for the back of my Omega






and a pair for the caravan  ??? ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 22:03:50
....
tyre not properly seated or he was lazy to correct the wheel problem..  in snowy days tyre shops are so crowded that balancers become exhausted and sometimes want to quit the job or finish it quickly.. :-\
Done at the dealers, so they don't have that excuse.

.....
would guess "if the tyre is correctly seated "that you have an egg shaped wheel then mate,or a bad new tyre!!

I'll see what they have to say tomorrow.

thanks to you both. ;)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 January 2013, 22:53:48
....
tyre not properly seated or he was lazy to correct the wheel problem..  in snowy days tyre shops are so crowded that balancers become exhausted and sometimes want to quit the job or finish it quickly.. :-\
Done at the dealers, so they don't have that excuse.

.....
would guess "if the tyre is correctly seated "that you have an egg shaped wheel then mate,or a bad new tyre!!

I'll see what they have to say tomorrow.

thanks to you both. ;)

whatever excuse they have , there is no explanation for 95 grs Andy..
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: SMD on 18 January 2013, 22:59:35
A question about the banding on tyres. If tyres are symmetrical then you'd want stripes on opposite sides (i.e stiped on outsides of tyres) and if tyres are asymmetrical?

Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 23:06:48
...
 
whatever excuse they have , there is no explanation for 95 grs Andy..

 :y :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 18 January 2013, 23:09:39
A question about the banding on tyres. If tyres are symmetrical then you'd want stripes on opposite sides (i.e stiped on outsides of tyres) and if tyres are asymmetrical?

I need to have a proper look in the light. It was blowing a blizzard when I got the car back so didn't look at the time, I just noticed the reflection of the mass of weights as I got out of the car in the super market car park.  >:( But I'll look at the banding tomorrow.  ;)
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: hotel21 on 19 January 2013, 11:11:32
You probably are already aware of this but, just in case....

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90462.0

 :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 19 January 2013, 11:15:46
You probably are already aware of this but, just in case....

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90462.0

 :y

Thanks Bruce .........  :y  :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: SMD on 20 January 2013, 00:36:19
Thanks for the link. Wasn't aware of its existence.

So just to clarify that I have understood it correctly (prob not  ;D ) directional or asymmetrical tyres should have markings on the offside. Is that for all 4 tyres?

Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Shackeng on 20 January 2013, 09:08:24
You probably are already aware of this but, just in case....

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90462.0

 :y

Fascinating read, and I immediately think: "When I order tyres on line, do I get a matched pair?"
Somehow I doubt it. But then I doubt if I would at 99.9% of tyre factors either :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 25 January 2013, 11:57:56
Took it back this morning. Initially the head tech came & asked why I thought there was a problem ..... he said that in the past he'd used 200+ grams to balance a wheel that big .....
My reply was that there shouldn't be the need to to add so much weight to balance a premium brand tyre & maybe I should ask Bridgestone for their opinion. So he went away, had another go & eventually  came back to say that after moving the tyre on the rim, it was now balanced with just 30 grams.  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 25 January 2013, 12:06:37
Took it back this morning. Initially the head tech came & asked why I thought there was a problem ..... he said that in the past he'd used 200+ grams to balance a wheel that big .....
My reply was that there shouldn't be the need to to add so much weight to balance a premium brand tyre & maybe I should ask Bridgestone for their opinion. So he went away, had another go & eventually  came back to say that after moving the tyre on the rim, it was now balanced with just 30 grams.  :y :y :y

result.. knowledge and logic always wins :y :y :y
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 25 January 2013, 12:25:18
Took it back this morning. Initially the head tech came & asked why I thought there was a problem ..... he said that in the past he'd used 200+ grams to balance a wheel that big .....
My reply was that there shouldn't be the need to to add so much weight to balance a premium brand tyre & maybe I should ask Bridgestone for their opinion. So he went away, had another go & eventually  came back to say that after moving the tyre on the rim, it was now balanced with just 30 grams.  :y :y :y

result.. knowledge and logic always wins :y :y :y

He seemed quite pleased with himself  ::)  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 January 2013, 12:31:18
So....was it not properly seated or not properly balanced or the tyre iffy and the rim also....
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 25 January 2013, 12:37:16
not properly seated..
 
"say that after moving the tyre on the rim"
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 25 January 2013, 13:04:03
So....was it not properly seated or not properly balanced or the tyre iffy and the rim also....

It couldn't have been that far out of balance cos it felt OK at motorway-ish  ::) speeds  :y and he reckoned that the rim on it's own was just 50 grams out
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 January 2013, 13:22:19
50 grams is a lot for a rim on its won in my experience.

Sounds like hes put the heavy side of the tyre opposite the heavy side of the rim.

Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 25 January 2013, 13:24:10
50 grams is a lot for a rim on its won in my experience.

Sounds like hes put the heavy side of the tyre opposite the heavy side of the rim.

Never had the chance to balance my own tyres/rims  :-\

the tyre has been moved on the rim ..... not sure exactly though  :-\
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 25 January 2013, 13:53:29
50 grams is a lot for a rim on its won in my experience.

Sounds like hes put the heavy side of the tyre opposite the heavy side of the rim.

Never had the chance to balance my own tyres/rims  :-\

the tyre has been moved on the rim ..... not sure exactly though  :-\

30 grs is ok.. but if you feel some vibration still, the wheel must be corrected or changed.. 
Title: Re: new tyres/balance weight
Post by: Andy B on 25 January 2013, 15:34:36
... but if you feel some vibration still, the wheel must be corrected or changed..

No vibration ....... 'tested' on my way back home  ::)  :y  :y