Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Rog on 21 January 2013, 13:37:50

Title: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Rog on 21 January 2013, 13:37:50

2000 X Reg 2.5 V6 Elite Estate

Drives like a pig compared with my previous 2.6 V6 Estates. I understand that there are differences like weight, drive-by-wire, but I think that the real problem is 17" alloys instead of 16". OK there may be geometry issues, but probably wheel size is the main culprit. I really don't care that some people think that 17" looks better

I need a complete set of new tyres, not exactly a cheap matter. Before I do this . . .

Is there any reason for NOT getting a second hand set of 16" Alloys ?
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: kcl on 21 January 2013, 13:42:06
2,5 and 2,6 cars are not THAT different, so every tyre that os proven to work under either car will work on other also. Most probably you have issues with geometry and/or worn suspension bushes.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Andy B on 21 January 2013, 13:54:53
.... but I think that the real problem is 17" alloys instead of 16". OK there may be geometry issues, but probably wheel size is the main culprit. I really don't care that some people think that 17" looks better

 ......

I'm not sure how you can blame the difference in rim size for handling problems. There's a very slight difference in ride between the two, I swapped original 16" Elite rims for facelift 17" rims & could detect a very slightly firmer ride. I'd get geometry etc checked first before you condemn your current 17" wheels .... might also be crap/worn tyres
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: feeutfo on 21 January 2013, 14:10:26

2000 X Reg 2.5 V6 Elite Estate

Drives like a pig compared with my previous 2.6 V6 Estates. I understand that there are differences like weight, drive-by-wire, but I think that the real problem is 17" alloys instead of 16". OK there may be geometry issues, but probably wheel size is the main culprit. I really don't care that some people think that 17" looks better

I need a complete set of new tyres, not exactly a cheap matter. Before I do this . . .

Is there any reason for NOT getting a second hand set of 16" Alloys ?
It's not that simple. You could go to the expense of new wheels, only to find its the set up, or a component at fault on the bad handling car. Or the tyres themselves, maybe?

What's it doing?

What tyres fitted?

Bush history/condition?

Set up history?



Ps, if you want to confirm its a wheel or tyre issue, fit the good handling wheels to the bad handling car. But you need to be aware of the tread wear on each set.
 For instance if the bad handling cars tyres are new, and the good handling cars tyres are old/worn. That would NOT be worth while swapping wheels, as you could just be confirming a worn set of tyres.

However if the opposite is true and the older tyres handle better than the bad handling new ones then you have a tyre selection problem. Just as an example. :)


I'd be surprised if just rim size could be picked put as a fault by simply driving the car? If I understand your post correctly? :)
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: mantahatch on 21 January 2013, 14:13:15
When I bought my car it had 15inch steel wheels on it, very comfortable. Later put 17inch alloys on, corners much better but comfort has suffered dramatically.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: scottambrose on 21 January 2013, 14:38:29
my mv6 tramlines badly and is almost dangerous on the motorway and lethal in the wet. i put it down to wanli tyres. absolute rubbish. if i keep my mv6 i will have to replace all 4 even though they still have 4mm of tread on them
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: aaronjb on 21 January 2013, 15:37:41
Were your previous cars Elites w/ self levelling or MV6/CDX/etc?
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Rog on 21 January 2013, 15:41:47
Were your previous cars Elites w/ self levelling or MV6/CDX/etc?

CDX V6 Estates all 2002. My garage tell me that one had self levelling but the other didn't, but I was not aware of any driving difference.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: aaronjb on 21 January 2013, 15:50:11
The Elite is very wallowy compared to a friends CDX, which is why I asked (ok, to be exact, 'my' Elite is very wallowy compared to his CDX) - I know Chris has also said that the SL rear end tends to give the car a very 'live axle' feel at the back.

Assuming lack of wheel control and general roll is your problem, rather than the car diving into every rut and camber change..
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: symes on 21 January 2013, 17:59:36
changing from 15/16 to 17 shouldnt make any difference-if anything I would say what condition are tires/bottom arns in?
with 17s you soon notice any wear in bottom arm bushes THB  :y
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: TheBoy on 21 January 2013, 18:05:36
my mv6 tramlines badly and is almost dangerous on the motorway and lethal in the wet. i put it down to wanli tyres. absolute rubbish. if i keep my mv6 i will have to replace all 4 even though they still have 4mm of tread on them
They are at the end of their useful life anyway, so not a big issue :)
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: 2woody on 21 January 2013, 21:32:27
they do actually make quite a bit of difference. Think of it this way.....

15 inch wheels use tall tyres - these have little grip, but great handling
17 inch wheels use short tyres - these have very much better grip, but not so good handling.

the shorter tyre flexes less and is very much more likely to suffer from tranlining for instance. The extra flex in the taller tyres that creates the handling also soaks up some of the road irregularities and geometry problems.

are your 17 inch wheels Omega ones ? ( i.e. is the offset correct )
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: scottambrose on 22 January 2013, 06:47:41
my mv6 tramlines badly and is almost dangerous on the motorway and lethal in the wet. i put it down to wanli tyres. absolute rubbish. if i keep my mv6 i will have to replace all 4 even though they still have 4mm of tread on them
They are at the end of their useful life anyway, so not a big issue :)
I think with 7mm they were most likely past their useful life
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Rog on 22 January 2013, 08:08:30
Thanks for all replies.

Car is having MOT today and the tyres will fail it. I've decided to put new tyres on the 17" alloys and see how it goes. I was just looking for opinions before spending quite a bit of cash on tyres.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Rog on 24 January 2013, 11:34:45
Thanks for all replies.

Car is having MOT today and the tyres will fail it. I've decided to put new tyres on the 17" alloys and see how it goes. I was just looking for opinions before spending quite a bit of cash on tyres.

New tyres all round (Avon ZV5s) wheel alignment etc (not full geometry). Garage said that it was way out and some damage to one of the front wheels.

Much better, but not great. However after shelling out on 4 tyres I'm leaving things as they are.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: feeutfo on 24 January 2013, 12:04:23
Sigh...
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Rog on 24 January 2013, 23:52:38
Sigh...

Ok, sure.

But I don't do any of my own work on the car, I don't have the kit or the time or the expertise. I tell a garage what I want done and I pay them to do do it. So I come to this forum, I listen, balance what I hear with what my garage says (and I respect their opinion) and make a decision for better or worse.




Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: feeutfo on 25 January 2013, 00:13:12
Fair enough. But your missing whats probably the best part of 75% of the picture when it comes to set up, handling and tyre wear issues.

Bit as long as your happy. :y
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Bixy1 on 25 January 2013, 00:32:29
I had 17's on my Elite when I bought it but changed immediatly to 16's simply because all the tyres were pretty near bald and well scuffed on the front inside edges and I dropped lucky on a set from the scrappies. I noticed the ride from the 16's is softer than the 17's but thats probably down to the lower profile. The car handles rubbish, but then I did'nt expect it to. Too big and wallowy for that. Keeps you on your toes though. Fling it into a corner and I don't always expect to come out in the direction I should be facing! But that isn't why I bought it. I wanted a big old comfy bruiser that will carry me and the family about whilst consuming the entire petrol reserves of the planet as quickly as possible.  ???
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: omega3000 on 25 January 2013, 12:34:55
I had 17's on my Elite when I bought it but changed immediatly to 16's simply because all the tyres were pretty near bald and well scuffed on the front inside edges and I dropped lucky on a set from the scrappies. I noticed the ride from the 16's is softer than the 17's but thats probably down to the lower profile. The car handles rubbish, but then I did'nt expect it to. Too big and wallowy for that. Keeps you on your toes though. Fling it into a corner and I don't always expect to come out in the direction I should be facing! But that isn't why I bought it. I wanted a big old comfy bruiser that will carry me and the family about whilst consuming the entire petrol reserves of the planet as quickly as possible.  ???

 ::) ::) ;D
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: dbdb on 26 January 2013, 02:08:18
I found the 16" on my old 2.5 V6 Reflection gave a noticeably softer ride than the 17" 235/45W on my new Elite.  However I had long since changed my Reflection tyres from the standard 225/55 to lower profile 225/45 partly because I found the ride too soft (also handled better, looked better and better torque and acceleration). Better MPG and faster speed too (well not really but all the instruments said that!). 

The net result is that my Elite 17" is a very similar ride to the non standard 225/45 R16s.  Now I'm getting old I was a bit disappointed that the Elite ride is not softer. 

Can't say I notice any difference with the Elite's self levelling, it doesn't seem to self level mid corner or mid brake.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: TheBoy on 26 January 2013, 09:48:49
Can't say I notice any difference with the Elite's self levelling, it doesn't seem to self level mid corner or mid brake.
Its to compensate load, not handling. Its quite slow acting - several seconds to raise it an inch etc.
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: Andy H on 26 January 2013, 14:19:20
Sigh...

Ok, sure.

But I don't do any of my own work on the car, I don't have the kit or the time or the expertise. I tell a garage what I want done and I pay them to do do it. So I come to this forum, I listen, balance what I hear with what my garage says (and I respect their opinion) and make a decision for better or worse.
You are close enough to WIM (wheels in motion) that it doesn't make sense to NOT take it to them for full geometry.

My local garage is incredibly helpful, the owner gave me a lift home when I last left the car for it's MOT and they delivered the car (with invoice on the seat) afterwards. They know diddly squit about setting the Omega geometry though :( so I have to look further afield to get that set correctly.......
Title: Re: Wheel & Tyre Dilema
Post by: scottambrose on 26 January 2013, 20:04:46
i wish i had a good garage and tyre place near me, im going to take the plunge and get 4 new tyres to replace my wanlis whixch have worn very evenly,so i assume my tracking/geo is ok, and i dont no any garages that wouldnt muck it up.