Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: mantahatch on 31 January 2013, 10:04:53
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Would you have an alloy wheel welded/repaired ?
One of my sons alloys has cracked. It looks like it has been repaired once before, thecrack is about 1.25 inches long. It is on the inner edge and and goes through the rim.
Welder where I work says he won't do it in case it breaks in use. But found one or two wheel repairers that offer to weld wheels.
They are after market wheels and I cannot find another like it. If not repair it looks like 4 new/secondhand wheels.
What would you do ?
Thanks for any advice.
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a picture would be very helpful to decide..
as a general rule can be repaired by TIG welding.. but size, shape,complexity can change the decision..
and I personally will never use this wheel on fronts.. I did have a repair in original omega wheel that I use in winter where speeds are relatively lower..
and finally let the job done by a highly recommended person by several people..
ps: the older repair was a crack or a buckle repair ?
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and also I must note, after the repair procedure if the wheel balance will ask for more than 40 grs I would discard it..
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and reading this may give an idea how the work must be done
http://www.weldcraft.com/2007/11/successful-aluminum-repairs/ (http://www.weldcraft.com/2007/11/successful-aluminum-repairs/)
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we will talk the painting details later if you decide to use it after repair ::)
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Thanks Cem, reading that now. but heres a picture. (http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af197/mantahatch/DSCF2145_zps75e32761.jpg)
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without doubt can be repaired :y
but you need a good welder.. as it has been repaired before..
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Personally, I'd bin it.
Repaired and failed. Couldn't trust it meself. :)
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and one more point as the fracture is in the sidewall it must be sanded and perfected otherwise tyre wont stick to side and leak..
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thi may give you an idea how it must be done :y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDIMpJant9A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDIMpJant9A)
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i have done loads of these,piece off p+ss :y
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One of my wheels had been welded. That tyre / wheel suffered a blow out. Dunno if related but that wheel has since been weighed in
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might be? i always drill a 10 dia hole at the end of the crack,then i enlarge the crack with a disc cutter to approx 1/4" wide and then weld it so the weld is all the way through the alloy.i suspect a lot of welders just simply slap a bit off weld on top.
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Alloy welding is a specialist job. Personally I wouldn't trust that wheel repaired, particularly as a previous repair has failed.
But your choice mate - your life ::)
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Thanks everyone for your input. Jury still out here I am afraid.
Oh yes and son's life not mine, and they way he has been behaving lately he can drive it with 3 wheels for all I care :y
Sad little muppet thinks I am going to buy him 4 brand new after market alloy wheels and new tyres. And this has to be sorted by Sunday lunchtime when he has a long journet to do.
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Alloy wheel may have visible crack but worse is unseen Best all round(no pun intended) to scrap it
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If it was my boy, I'd get him 4 decent steelies to keep him mobile and safe. :) If he wanted 4 new alloys he'd have to get saving!! ;D
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If it was my boy, I'd get him 4 decent steelies to keep him mobile and safe. :) If he wanted 4 new alloys he'd have to get saving!! ;D
+1 :y
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If it was my boy, I'd get him 4 decent steelies to keep him mobile and safe. :) If he wanted 4 new alloys he'd have to get saving!! ;D
If it was MY boy I'd take the keys off him and the battery out of the car until he bought himself some decent wheels of whatever description ... :) I'd then drive him to the station to catch the train to wherever he has to be :)
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If it were my boy I'd make him walk where he needed to go and I'd make sure it was uphill both ways! ;)
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You are all of course right. Sometimes I just don't think he realises what his parents have done for him over the years. He is 19 had a moped, then a Saxo and now the Astra. And he still manages to upset his mum and by definition if she is upset that then impacts on me.
He is a typical teenager who cannot see tomorrow, to him there is only now.
Given my time again I would never of had kids, even if that meant loosing my wife. Getting a bit deep this, sorry guys. Rant over.
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My local dealer used to stock new steel wheels :y before they closed down :'(
Might be worth an ask though :-\
Ps if he only gets one, then he'll be limited to 50mph, assuming it's a different size. Should disrupt his weekend without actually ruining it :y
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::) I see a bunch of over protecting parents :) :y not bad..
however, there will be no problem welding an alloy and using on rears.. worst case , it will leak air ;)
I guess most of you dont use repaired alloys.. I have been using for 5 years and no probs so far.. and there was a hole ;D
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::) I see a bunch of over protecting parents :) :y not bad..
however, there will be no problem welding an alloy and using on rears.. worst case , it will leak air ;)
I guess most of you dont use repaired alloys.. I have been using for 5 years and no probs so far.. and there was a hole ;D
No .. the worst case is the weld will totally fail and the rim breaks up ... at 70 mph the wheel is doing approximately 1000 rpm and the forces involved are FAR higher than you might think...
and every bump and corner just adds to those forces ...
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal
It is damaged .. scrap it ... your life, and that of others is totally dependent on 4 small patches of rubber to hold you on the road ... don't compromise that rubber in any fashion.
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::) I see a bunch of over protecting parents :) :y not bad..
however, there will be no problem welding an alloy and using on rears.. worst case , it will leak air ;)
I guess most of you dont use repaired alloys.. I have been using for 5 years and no probs so far.. and there was a hole ;D
No .. the worst case is the weld will totally fail and the rim breaks up ... at 70 mph the wheel is doing approximately 1000 rpm and the forces involved are FAR higher than you might think...
and every bump and corner just adds to those forces ...
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal (http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal)
It is damaged .. scrap it ... your life, and that of others is totally dependent on 4 small patches of rubber to hold you on the road ... don't compromise that rubber in any fashion.
Entwood, with a good quality welding it will be stronger than before.. and you need to have a big accident to break the whole wheel.. Please check the yield strength for those alloys..YOu cant break it by simply loading it :)
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::) I see a bunch of over protecting parents :) :y not bad..
however, there will be no problem welding an alloy and using on rears.. worst case , it will leak air ;)
I guess most of you dont use repaired alloys.. I have been using for 5 years and no probs so far.. and there was a hole ;D
No .. the worst case is the weld will totally fail and the rim breaks up ... at 70 mph the wheel is doing approximately 1000 rpm and the forces involved are FAR higher than you might think...
and every bump and corner just adds to those forces ...
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal (http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal)
It is damaged .. scrap it ... your life, and that of others is totally dependent on 4 small patches of rubber to hold you on the road ... don't compromise that rubber in any fashion.
Entwood, with a good quality welding it will be stronger than before.. and you need to have a big accident to break the whole wheel.. Please check the yield strength for those alloys..YOu cant break it by simply loading it :)
Perhaps ... and I expect every welder has a full x-ray/ultrasound/NDT facility to check their work ??
You want to risk it ??? Fine ... I would not. :)
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::) I see a bunch of over protecting parents :) :y not bad..
however, there will be no problem welding an alloy and using on rears.. worst case , it will leak air ;)
I guess most of you dont use repaired alloys.. I have been using for 5 years and no probs so far.. and there was a hole ;D
No .. the worst case is the weld will totally fail and the rim breaks up ... at 70 mph the wheel is doing approximately 1000 rpm and the forces involved are FAR higher than you might think...
and every bump and corner just adds to those forces ...
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal (http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/newtonian/centrifugal)
It is damaged .. scrap it ... your life, and that of others is totally dependent on 4 small patches of rubber to hold you on the road ... don't compromise that rubber in any fashion.
Entwood, with a good quality welding it will be stronger than before.. and you need to have a big accident to break the whole wheel.. Please check the yield strength for those alloys..YOu cant break it by simply loading it :)
Perhaps ... and I expect every welder has a full x-ray/ultrasound/NDT facility to check their work ??
You want to risk it ??? Fine ... I would not. :)
no need to exaggerate imo :)
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Except the repair has failed once before.
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kin-ell is this still going on? a simply google search will show you that welding the bog standard alloy wheel is cheap and common.the trouble is all you need is a couple of bodgers to mess it up(publicly) and all of a sudden, welding wheels is incriedably dangerous and you will die in a shower of alloy shards, guaranteed... ;D ;D
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My friend had a calliper come lose smashing a hole in the inner rim of his alloy on his classic mustang he took it to a specialist repairer in Birmingham and had it fixed and he uses it on the car for track days and down the strip as well as normal driving and he has had no issues with it so if you want it fixed I'd take it to a specialist and ask there advice
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kin-ell is this still going on? a simply google search will show you that welding the bog standard alloy wheel is cheap and common.the trouble is all you need is a couple of bodgers to mess it up(publicly) and all of a sudden, welding wheels is incriedably dangerous and you will die in a shower of alloy shards, guaranteed... ;D ;D
;D yep..
problem is I said its repairable first.. so the whole thread turned to be controversial again >:( >:( >:(
Sorry Manta..
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for those who want to see who pees longer , open a self thread and discuss with me as you wish >:( >:( >:(
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No need to apologize Cem. I have been guilty myself of going off topic.
All I would say is please no more arguing, it is not worth getting stressed over. Just agree to disagree and move on. :y
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OK .. I'll bite .. it is nothing to do with "anti cem" comments at all ... lets put it quite simply and I'll even do this to keep you all happy, and I'll use small words :)
IMHO
It has been repaired once and failed .. ergo,... repairs DO fail ... they are not infallible
The area that was repaired and failed has .. by definition,... been heated more than other parts of the wheel - you can't weld without heat (AFAIK) ... it is now to be subject to the same (or more) heat again
IMHO
that has the potential to further weaken a possibly already weakened area (don't tell me the welded area is stronger than the original .. it wouldn't have failed if it was)
Given the forces involved and the fact my life depends on my wheels and tyres
IMHO
the wheel is unsafe and should not be repaired.
happy now ???
:) :) :) :) :) :)
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no one is stupid.. most members know what is happening Entwood..
you may post your ideas freely anytime.. but making it longer is not helpful to netiher you nor Chris..
and I think he can defend himself anytime.. >:(
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no one is stupid.. most members know what is happening Entwood..
you may post your ideas freely anytime.. but making it longer is not helpful to netiher you nor Chris..
and I think he can defend himself anytime.. >:(
Now I am confused :(
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And IMO whoever re fitted the wheel was unable to tell if the weld was good quality or not, clearly, or they wouldn't have fitted it again.
Does the op know where the wheel was repaired?
And, off topic, it's amazing that you cem, should accuse others in such a way, when you did EXACTLY THAT yourself on numerous threads. One topic iirc was fitting front poly bushes with wishbones on the car. Something most members have done prior to and since. Again, with no ecperience of the issue and googling for Answers.
The issues here are very real on both sides. They are valid points, and for the op to accept or not.
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And IMO whoever re fitted the wheel was unable to tell if the weld was good quality or not, clearly, or they wouldn't have fitted it again.
Does the op know where the wheel was repaired?
And, off topic, it's amazing that you cem, should accuse others in such a way, when you did EXACTLY THAT yourself on numerous threads. One topic iirc was fitting front poly bushes with wishbones on the car. Something most members have done prior to and since. Again, with no ecperience of the issue and googling for Answers.
The issues here are very real on both sides. They are valid points, and for the op to accept or not.
Chris I dont agree with anything you have said as usual .. and I have no intention to turn this thread to tyre threads.. if you want open another one ;D
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Again I suspect this thread is heading for locking. As the majority if the input is not helpfull to the op.
Maybe if the op sent his wheel to sassanach he might stand a chance of a proper job.
But if it was mine, I'd bin it. Being honest. But that's for the op to decide. No?
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And IMO whoever re fitted the wheel was unable to tell if the weld was good quality or not, clearly, or they wouldn't have fitted it again.
Does the op know where the wheel was repaired?
And, off topic, it's amazing that you cem, should accuse others in such a way, when you did EXACTLY THAT yourself on numerous threads. One topic iirc was fitting front poly bushes with wishbones on the car. Something most members have done prior to and since. Again, with no ecperience of the issue and googling for Answers.
The issues here are very real on both sides. They are valid points, and for the op to accept or not.
No, they are aftermarket wheels and this was picked in the morning with what at first appeared to be a puncture. It was only noticed when tyre fitter took tyre off to repair.
I will not stoke the flames by saying what our decision was, as I do not want this disagreement to escalate.
Please chaps, let it go. :(
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No worries mate. Best of luck with it, whatever you decide. :)
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And IMO whoever re fitted the wheel was unable to tell if the weld was good quality or not, clearly, or they wouldn't have fitted it again.
Does the op know where the wheel was repaired?
And, off topic, it's amazing that you cem, should accuse others in such a way, when you did EXACTLY THAT yourself on numerous threads. One topic iirc was fitting front poly bushes with wishbones on the car. Something most members have done prior to and since. Again, with no ecperience of the issue and googling for Answers.
The issues here are very real on both sides. They are valid points, and for the op to accept or not.
No, they are aftermarket wheels and this was picked in the morning with what at first appeared to be a puncture. It was only noticed when tyre fitter took tyre off to repair.
I will not stoke the flames by saying what our decision was, as I do not want this disagreement to escalate.
Please chaps, let it go. :(
Manta, if you are going to use this wheel it will need paint.. I'll PM the details later :y
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Its turned out to be a bit of an emotive subject this.
Just like using second hand/part worn tyres.......
or second hand rims......
or similar.
Lets not get our nethergarments too far askew from the norm and create an unhappy thread. OP has reached a conclusion and so the continued attempts by some to impose their thinking of the matter on others is simply causing grief.
Wont lock yet but, lets keep it tidy.
:y
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the first repair looks a bit shoddy,
a proper repair with the crack drilled and ground out will outlast the car.
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I had two repaired, not a crack but rim damage. Kept them on the rear but they outlasted the car and never even leaked. Looking at the photo I'm not sure it has been welded before, had they welded it it would have cracked anywhere apart from the weld. Maybe it was bodged with some epoxy, not a good idea.
The problem is not whether they can be safely repaired, they can easily by a decent TIG welder as sassanach said. The problem is only finding a decent welder and it's not that difficult. I've welded alu before (a ladder!) it is the hardest to do and I wouldn't trust my efforts (nor would anyone looking at the weld!) but a practiced welder could do it easily, no xray kit required. Make sure they drill a hole at the end of the crack.
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I don't think anyone (apart from Entwood with his large IMHOs) disputes that this wheel cannot be successfully repaired by an experienced and competant welder. As said above a quality weld is likely to be stronger than the original. The argument appears to hinge around the subsequent use of the repaired wheel, and that is very much a matter of personal opinion.
I personally wouldn't like to trust a repaired alloy, others would - their opinion.
As said the OP has made his choice and as he suggests the matter should be closed.
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Its clearly been bodged in the past but anybody handy with a TIG could easily do a good reliable and safe repair on that.
It needs V-ing out to get full penetration and a hole drilling and welding to ensure the crack won't progress.
Bottom line is its no more dangerous then a good weld repair on a chassis
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
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Yet it still failed. ::)
We're not talking about a new wheel though. It's not a question of is it possible to weld. It's a question of is this particular wheel safe...? By nature if a wheel has a bend in it, say its hit a brick, enough to crack the metal there's two other points where the rim had to bend in either side to allow it to happen, for example. Ok, bend it straight fill with weld. Make it round. But it's a bodged weld in this case presumably, with a good chance of two more elsewhere it seems to me.
I'd want to see that wheel stripped completely to the metal. One bodged repair, to two. 3 maybe? Filler under the paint? It might be fine and the pic shows the full extent of it, but who honestly knows what's gone on with that wheel....? Nobody, that's who.
Opinion asked for, opinion given. :) although possibly not fully explained at the start, who'd of thought it would get this much attention? But there we are. :)
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Although... The op's question is straightforward. To be fair. :)
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to aggree with mark on this,seen race car wheels tig welded many times and when they get tw+ted by the driver and are removed the welds have always been fine,proper welding adds strength, why do you think rally cars n saloons are seam welded.
Yes a baddley welded part is no good but a properally welded one is just as strong if not stronger as you are adding materail.
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I don't think anyone (apart from Entwood with his large IMHOs) disputes that this wheel cannot be successfully repaired by an experienced and competant welder. As said above a quality weld is likely to be stronger than the original. The argument appears to hinge around the subsequent use of the repaired wheel, and that is very much a matter of personal opinion.
I think I counted 3 different people saying scrap it
I personally wouldn't like to trust a repaired alloy, others would - their opinion.
Make that 4 people - you wouldn't use it so presumably you would scrap it too.
The diffference in opinion I see is can it be properly repaired and made safe or not? Pardon me but it seems that those who don't know say not and those who have experience and knowledge of welding say yes.
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to say I agree with you there Mark - I've raced on welded steels and alloys without any disasters. However on a race track a level of risk is accepted, I personally wouldn't risk it on a road car where passengers and other road users may be involved should a wheel let go. But thats just my opinion - not a pedantic view ;)
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to say I agree with you there Mark - I've raced on welded steels and alloys without any disasters. However on a race track a level of risk is accepted, I personally wouldn't risk it on a road car where passengers and other road users may be involved should a wheel let go. But thats just my opinion - not a pedantic view ;)
Pot kettle black, Mr dmug. ;D
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to say I agree with you there Mark - I've raced on welded steels and alloys without any disasters. However on a race track a level of risk is accepted, I personally wouldn't risk it on a road car where passengers and other road users may be involved should a wheel let go. But thats just my opinion - not a pedantic view ;)
Pot kettle black, Mr dmug. ;D
Oh grow up Pixie :y
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to say I agree with you there Mark - I've raced on welded steels and alloys without any disasters. However on a race track a level of risk is accepted, I personally wouldn't risk it on a road car where passengers and other road users may be involved should a wheel let go. But thats just my opinion - not a pedantic view ;)
Pot kettle black, Mr dmug. ;D
Oh grow up Pixie :y
Oh dear! ;D
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to say I agree with you there Mark - I've raced on welded steels and alloys without any disasters. However on a race track a level of risk is accepted, I personally wouldn't risk it on a road car where passengers and other road users may be involved should a wheel let go. But thats just my opinion - not a pedantic view ;)
Pot kettle black, Mr dmug. ;D
Oh grow up Pixie :y
Oh dear! ;D
Ffs you two,get a room :D :D ::)
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I should add that many race wheels are welded from new without ndt.
Further to this, you would be surprised how many casting defects are fixed using such methods on new alloys and other similar parts
Have to say I agree with you there Mark - I've raced on welded steels and alloys without any disasters. However on a race track a level of risk is accepted, I personally wouldn't risk it on a road car where passengers and other road users may be involved should a wheel let go. But thats just my opinion - not a pedantic view ;)
Pot kettle black, Mr dmug. ;D
Oh grow up Pixie :y
Oh dear! ;D
Ffs you two,get a room :D :D ::)
ooh, a threesome? :-* ;) ;D
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On topic, I'm with Sassanach/MDTM on this one - repaired properly, a hole drilled at end of crack to prevent it cracking further, all damaged parts cut out if required, the repair should be as good, or possibly exceed, the original integrity of the wheel.
Off topic, can we please try to stop the childish bickering and arguing that is going on everywhere here >:(