Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: OmegaAnglesey on 23 March 2013, 20:27:37
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Hi all..
I'm looking for something to basically eat the rust and take it as close as possible to bare metal and a protector so after respraying it will last longer than 6-12months..
My current Omega hasn't had its arches done before but their both have a fair bit now top and bottom sides including the bottom lip on the back doors..
Have been searching OOf for recommended methods and products have found these so far..
BILT HAMBER DEOX-GEL RUST REMOVER
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Deox-Gel-Rust-Remover-Gelled-Corrosion-Remover-1000ml-bottle-/181097618429?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2a2a425bfd (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Deox-Gel-Rust-Remover-Gelled-Corrosion-Remover-1000ml-bottle-/181097618429?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2a2a425bfd)
BRUNOX EPOXY
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRUNOX-EPOXY-LUBRICANT-250-ML-ANTI-RUST-COVERING-TREATMENT-/221199073170?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item33807dff92 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRUNOX-EPOXY-LUBRICANT-250-ML-ANTI-RUST-COVERING-TREATMENT-/221199073170?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item33807dff92)
POR 15 Rust Prevention Paint US Quart 946ml NEW non-porous protective coat
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-POR-15-Rust-Prevention-Paint-US-Quart-946ml-NEW-non-porous-protective-coat-/380583047033?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item589c846f79 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-POR-15-Rust-Prevention-Paint-US-Quart-946ml-NEW-non-porous-protective-coat-/380583047033?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item589c846f79)
Sorry about picture quality (been having issues with the new photobucket)
(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p620/Agemo_Legend/4628137b-2c46-4787-8ed4-d5c564b5d916_zpsef3cc84c.jpg)
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There is only one sure way to rid it of the metal worm and the is to cut it out and repair. :y
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There is only one sure way to rid it of the metal worm and the is to cut it out and repair. :y
True. But I don't want to be going down that road just yet as it's still only surface rust... I just don't want it to come back within months of doing it.. I'd be happy with over a year or there about's. :)
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I will try and get some better quality close up pictures when it's above 0c outside.
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before doing anything , mask the non-rusted paint area with 2-3 layers of painter masking tape..
using 150 grid dry sand paper clean until you reach complete clean bare metal .. inside out (all inner outer sides)(you will need a mirror)
(if you cant clean the rust completely or there is a hole - I'm afraid thats a body shop work)
clean the tapes..
now mask the area 0.5 cms bigger from all directions
now sand the area with 400 overlapping to the good paint (0.5 cms bigger from every direction)
spray (6-7 layers- use hair dryer between every 2 layers) standox/glassurite epoxy (with hardener and celulosic thinner)designed for cars.. (1.4 or smaller nozzle size for best results)
wait 24-36 hours depending on temperature (do not drive car)
sand with 800 wet , use hair dryer again (be sure it become dry completely)
increase the sanding area size 2-3 cms bigger in all directions (and arrange the mask area accordingly)
prepare your color mixture in a paintshop (250 gr will be more than enough you will use the excess for touch up)
check the color tone on a test card and compare with car
+ clearcoat with hardener
apply paint and clear coat respectively overlapping the clean area..
be warned for best results fine size hvlp guns are expensive.. :-\
after drying sand with 2000 and polish..
ps: dont know the prices there but for those kind of small area jobs, small size (half size) hvlp guns are much better..
pps: minimize air pressure, paint shape must be oval and make a test paint on a metal surface before actual painting.. and clean the gun immediately after painting..
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rust can continue even if sealed in so you need to either remove ALL rust or treat it with a chemical like Vactan, a rust convertor. Revoming all rust is very difficult but you can do it with mechanical means on a smooth surface or a rust eater as long as you prime it immediately after. The best results I've had are to remove just surface rust and treat with Vactan, then prime on top. An advantage is vactan is water based and will penetrate so you can get away with minimum paint removal. Unfortunately for you it dries black. Seach ebay for Vactan.
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Thanks for the tips and advice :) :y
Can anyone recommend a good place to buy paint, have tried Halfords and VX and none have been that good in the past unless they've changed in the past few years :-\
Not sure what the paint code is but it's a 2002 Star Silver GLS.
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Vactan not particularly good from reviews on car clubs - better to use Coca Cola (phosphoric acid), then prime.
(Note I have also tried this product, and don't rate it - water based and a waste of money ime)
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Vactan has excellent ratings from steel boat owners and other people who know. I have used it for 10 years or more. Water based is an advantage not a drawback - will penetrate and treat damp rust.
Coca cola is an urban myth surely.
There are a few good paint suppliers on ebay search for "star silver paint"
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Vactan has excellent ratings from steel boat owners and other people who know. I have used it for 10 years or more. Water based is an advantage not a drawback - will penetrate and treat damp rust.
Coca cola is an urban myth surely.
There are a few good paint suppliers on ebay search for "star silver paint"
Really bad idea, there are 100's of combinations of what that could be. Use the paint code to get the exact, correct colour.
FL Omega's don't rust that bad, its around 70% galvanised, none of ours have any rust around the arches.
Tend to go around the bottom corner of the rear door and on Estates around the rear wiper arm
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Rear wiper arm area rust on estates is cured by sanding off the small lower ridge. As the wiper works, it causes the ridge to move very slightly and rub its way through the paint.
keith B
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Not sure what the paint code is but it's a 2002 Star Silver GLS.
Z157 Star Silver III
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Quite rare? ??? Many "Star Silver" combination's out there, two Omega ones least 4 Corsa ones (quick Google), also go Astra and so on, all different variants.
To ensure a match, use paint code. ;)
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Vactan has excellent ratings from steel boat owners and other people who know. I have used it for 10 years or more. Water based is an advantage not a drawback - will penetrate and treat damp rust.
Coca cola is an urban myth surely.
There are a few good paint suppliers on ebay search for "star silver paint"
No its not - we used it over 40 years ago successfully on seized and rusted nuts and bolts. Soak a rusty bolt in it over night! Now plusgas best for same use.
Best way of dealing with rusty bodywork is to cut it out and replace with new metal ;) Some treatments are better than others, but even the better ones will not last.
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Surely thats the objective of the exercise - to get the correct match and not to have to outsort incorrect ones ??? :-\ (http://www.dbug.co.uk/smile/banghead.gif)
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as Tunnie said, there will be numerous variations.. plus your car could be faded to a degree that you cant see without comparing to the original paint mixture..
so visit a professional paint shop (which have the color mixture from famous brands like standox, sikkens,glassurite )
when they see the car under sunlight a professional will quickly find the correct mixture (they work with many painters and sure they prepared the mixture before).. and plus he will need some color arrangements..
(its a trial error method even if you find the correct paint to match the exact color)
and imo dont loose time with other primers, best solution is always epoxy mixture made for cars .. and remember you will need to paint over it.. so must be compatible with the paints you will use.. personally I always use glassurite epoxy..
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Quite rare? ??? Many "Star Silver" combination's out there, two Omega ones least 4 Corsa ones (quick Google), also go Astra and so on, all different variants.
To ensure a match, use paint code. ;)
Agreed with tunnie on this, I do buy most things from eBay but not sure about paint. If its so easy to find one on eBay dbdb share a link. ???
Is there any recommended brands of paint that are available in star silver Z157 in a rattle can I haven't got the proper spray machinery equipment to do a proper job.
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Quite rare? ??? Many "Star Silver" combination's out there, two Omega ones least 4 Corsa ones (quick Google), also go Astra and so on, all different variants.
To ensure a match, use paint code. ;)
Agreed with tunnie on this, I do buy most things from eBay but not sure about paint. If its so easy to find one on eBay dbdb share a link. ???
Is there any recommended brands of paint that are available in star silver Z157 in a rattle can I haven't got the proper spray machinery equipment to do a proper job.
Omegaman , if you dont have spray equipment like hvlp and air compressor , you cant.. car paints are more sensitive than wheels and will show every mistake :-\ besides you must have some practice on them..
lastly even for the same color paint code - for example my omega (282) there are more than 20 variations..
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Surely thats the objective of the exercise - to get the correct match and not to have to outsort incorrect ones ??? :-\ (http://www.dbug.co.uk/smile/banghead.gif)
depends how anal one is. searching for star silver paint is perfectly adequate in this case, try it. :y
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Surely thats the objective of the exercise - to get the correct match and not to have to outsort incorrect ones ??? :-\ (http://www.dbug.co.uk/smile/banghead.gif)
depends how anal one is. searching for star silver paint is perfectly adequate in this case, try it. :y
Dbdb , to give you an opinion some time ago, for a friend we bought a corect code repair paint (which they use) for a silver color honda from the service.. and the color was 5-6 shades darker than the original.. we applied on a test card and result was unacceptable by all standards.. never trust a paint code alone.. metallic colors are so sensitive that even it changes with spraying technique and number of layers easily..
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Surely thats the objective of the exercise - to get the correct match and not to have to outsort incorrect ones ??? :-\ (http://www.dbug.co.uk/smile/banghead.gif)
depends how anal one is. searching for star silver paint is perfectly adequate in this case, try it. :y
Dbdb , to give you an opinion some time ago, for a friend we bought a corect code repair paint (which they use) for a silver color honda from the service.. and the color was 5-6 shades darker than the original.. we applied on a test card and result was unacceptable by all standards.. never trust a paint code alone.. metallic colors are so sensitive that even it changes with spraying technique and number of layers easily..
I've had two lots of star silver from 2 different ebay suppliers, both very good. Some colours don't fade much star silver seems to be one. Black is almost never a problem. Any red colour will fade and any white can be a pain to match. The two suppliers I used on ebay are fiona_mcgowan123 and wilson lendrum & weir ltd. Note these are touch up supplies only, I haven't been spraying. Any spray needs to be complete panel IMHO. Sounds like you may have had the wrong paint or maybe the honda silver does fade. Incidentaly I bought ruby red honda from wilson lendrum & weir ltd and I thought it was a pretty good match considering it was red and the car 12 years old.
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Quite rare? ??? Many "Star Silver" combination's out there, two Omega ones least 4 Corsa ones (quick Google), also go Astra and so on, all different variants.
To ensure a match, use paint code. ;)
Agreed with tunnie on this, I do buy most things from eBay but not sure about paint. If its so easy to find one on eBay dbdb share a link. ???
Is there any recommended brands of paint that are available in star silver Z157 in a rattle can I haven't got the proper spray machinery equipment to do a proper job.
Omegaman , if you dont have spray equipment like hvlp and air compressor , you cant.. car paints are more sensitive than wheels and will show every mistake :-\ besides you must have some practice on them..
lastly even for the same color paint code - for example my omega (282) there are more than 20 variations..
True, I do know someone who sprays cars for a living but he doesn't touch cars that have rust. But I did the bumper 3 or so years ago with a rattle can and its hardly noticeable. As said its a trail and error process :-\
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as said an ebay search for star silver paint will come up with the exact ones because "star silver' is quite a rare term. obviously 'sunrise red' or 'sea blue' would not worK and not be a good idea. Try it.
If you type in the exact code to ebay of course you will get only the right ones but to be honest 'star silver' will not return many irrelevant ones and they will be obvious.
Surely thats the objective of the exercise - to get the correct match and not to have to outsort incorrect ones ??? :-\ (http://www.dbug.co.uk/smile/banghead.gif)
depends how anal one is. searching for star silver paint is perfectly adequate in this case, try it. :y
Dbdb , to give you an opinion some time ago, for a friend we bought a corect code repair paint (which they use) for a silver color honda from the service.. and the color was 5-6 shades darker than the original.. we applied on a test card and result was unacceptable by all standards.. never trust a paint code alone.. metallic colors are so sensitive that even it changes with spraying technique and number of layers easily..
I've had two lots of star silver from 2 different ebay suppliers, both very good. Some colours don't fade much star silver seems to be one. Black is almost never a problem. Any red colour will fade and any white can be a pain to match. The two suppliers I used on ebay are fiona_mcgowan123 and wilson lendrum & weir ltd. Note these are touch up supplies only, I haven't been spraying. Any spray needs to be complete panel IMHO. Sounds like you may have had the wrong paint or maybe the honds silver does fade. Incidentaly I bought ruby red honda from wilson lendrum & weir ltd and I thought it was a pretty good match considering it was red and the car 12 years old.
all colors fade, its only a matter of time.. in UK you may need say 10 years (or more) but here 4-5 years more than enough..
star silver is the most hard color to give exact match.. number of paint layers, quality of gun, experience of painter, laquer quality (and number of layers) will make a different shade easily..
as for complete panel spray, if you want perfect job you need to blend also to adjacent panels .. but if area you paint is small you can blend also in the same panel..
the touch up paint was from honda , same color code and as I said it was awful.. :-\
and imo red color is worst of all colors that fades horribly..
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This is pretty much all there is on eBay.. GM/VX paint.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-SPRAY-PAINT-LAQUER-STAR-SILVER-3-157-GENUINE-/160974416333?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item257ad2a9cd
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This is pretty much all there is on eBay.. GM/VX paint.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-SPRAY-PAINT-LAQUER-STAR-SILVER-3-157-GENUINE-/160974416333?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item257ad2a9cd (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-SPRAY-PAINT-LAQUER-STAR-SILVER-3-157-GENUINE-/160974416333?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item257ad2a9cd)
please try on a test card first.. those cards also must be available on ebay..
http://www.yousaytoo.com/how-to-spray-a-test-card-for-comparing-automotive-paint-color/2120934 (http://www.yousaytoo.com/how-to-spray-a-test-card-for-comparing-automotive-paint-color/2120934)
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=star+silver&_sacat=72203&_odkw=&_osacat=72203 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=star+silver&_sacat=72203&_odkw=&_osacat=72203)
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You obviously know little about car restorations/repairs mate - black is one of the most difficult colours to match.
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You obviously know little about car restorations/repairs mate - black is one of the most difficult colours to match.
Sorry mate that is total crap. I find it difficult to believe you even said it. Black is black ask any sprayer. 8)
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You obviously know little about car restorations/repairs mate - black is one of the most difficult colours to match.
Sorry mate that is total crap. I find it difficult to believe you even said it. Black is black ask any sprayer. 8)
Yep go and ask a decent paint sprayer ;)
Any decent sprayer knows that the most difficult colours to match are black, red and white
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dbug have you ever had a black car? Ever had it sprayed? Ever listened (not same as talking) to a decent sprayer or even a half decent one? Ever sprayed or painted a black car yourself? I have done all of those. You obviously haven't as any sprayer will tell you black is the easiest.
There are reasons for that, keeping it simple for you - black absorbs the entire spectrum, technically it's not a colour, other colours absorb wavelengths except their own which they reflect, or they refect a comination of wavelengths which give rise to their colour.
I still can't believe you said it, reflects badly on your other 'advice'. Still time to modify your post perhaps? :-*
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What's with all the bitch fighting talk with everybody dbdb...
I appreciate any and all advice but there's no need to blow a fuse about it. :-X
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yes I'm trying to ignore dbug as advised but it is difficult when TBx is being talked :'(
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dbug have you ever had a black car? Ever had it sprayed? Ever listened (not same as talking) to a decent sprayer or even a half decent one? Ever sprayed or painted a black car yourself? I have done all of those. You obviously haven't as any sprayer will tell you black is the easiest.
There are reasons for that, keeping it simple for you - black absorbs the entire spectrum, technically it's not a colour, other colours absorb wavelengths except their own which they reflect, or they refect a comination of wavelengths which give rise to their colour.
I still can't believe you said it, reflects badly on your other 'advice'. Still time to modify your post perhaps? :-*
Yep have had a couple of black cars and ended up respraying them both completely as matching was difficult. My mate helped throughout - he was a professional sprayer, licenced as a RR repairer, and was working at the time as Technical Manager for Glasurit - part of his job was training sprayers.
I've resprayed lots of cars and do understand colour matching.
Of course I talk like an idiot - how else would you understand me? ;)
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I think you girls need to get a room! :-*
The constant patter is getting boring. :-\
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I think you girls need to get a room! :-*
The constant patter is getting boring. :-\
+1
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we must clarify a subject.. a shiny black wont stay as it is .. and it will fade to very dark gray color in different shades depending on the dye quality..
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Well its been interesting with the Black paint talk.. But Back to the topic "rust treatment and protector"
Has anyone had any good experiences with any of the rust products in the links in the original post ?
In particular this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Deox-Gel-Rust-Remover-Gelled-Corrosion-Remover-1000ml-bottle-/181097618429?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2a2a425bfd
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I did a bit of bodywork on The Merc.... ::)
I've no idea what the paint code or name is, but it's dark blue! :y So after whacking the angle grinder into the rust, treatment with rust killer and a bit of filler where required, I mixed up some Royal Blue and Black Hammerite until I thought it was about right!! :) Didn't think of using a test card, so slapped it on and hoped for the best!!! :-\
When it's covered with road grime it looks great from 5 or 10 metres with the sun in my eyes!!! ;D :y
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I worked as a professinal PanelBeater/Sprayer back in the 70's and 80's, don't ever remember much trouble matching black, I remember the original metallic colours Blue Mink and Silver Fox which was used on Mk2 Cortinas and Zodiacs, the problem we had with these was that Ford had so many varieties of shade, which got much worse as the years rolled on and they brought out new Metallic colours like Oyster Gold ect.
Getting the right match was an art form, you become very skilfull with subtle changes of colour.
Not sure how it is all done these days, but spraying a black car was always the most difficult because every imperfection showed up, so preperation had to be perfect.
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Just a quick comment on Halfrauds paint,I tried their star silver 2 on a fairly recently painted car and it was a poor match,likewise the glacier white.Better to go to a local trade supplier of who many will mix the correct colour for your code and supply it in a rattle can.That way you know it's fresh and not been sitting on shelf for an unknown period at Halfrauds :y
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Well its been interesting with the Black paint talk.. But Back to the topic "rust treatment and protector"
Has anyone had any good experiences with any of the rust products in the links in the original post ?
In particular this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Deox-Gel-Rust-Remover-Gelled-Corrosion-Remover-1000ml-bottle-/181097618429?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2a2a425bfd
Thats one of the better ones mate imo ;)
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Well its been interesting with the Black paint talk.. But Back to the topic "rust treatment and protector"
Has anyone had any good experiences with any of the rust products in the links in the original post ?
In particular this one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Deox-Gel-Rust-Remover-Gelled-Corrosion-Remover-1000ml-bottle-/181097618429?pt=UK_Car_Accessories_Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item2a2a425bfd
There are two general types of rust treatment (well three if you include the primers) . That one is a rust remover - they all work pretty well and just do what they say - chemically remove the rust. Great for dipping items in or where you can get at all the rust. Leave it a day and the rust will re-appear so prime it quickly, and take care to remove all the gel first. Vactan and others like Fertan, and others I forget, don't remove rust they convert it to a compound that will not rust when primed and painted over. Advantage is you only have to remove the surface rust, you don't remove the Vactan and you don't have to prime immediately. In fact you can paint directly onto the Vactan coat. Drawback is Vactan doesn't stick as well to existing paint or clean steel as a primer but it's close. When I had a black car Vactan was great because you could put it directly on a clean rust spot - no sanding at all, and it would stop it and hide it. Oh and colour matching was so easy in those days ;)
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None of this bickering is helpful to the OP!
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there are 2 ways to do a job.. either you try your best with a proper job or a bodge..
priming and painting with the correct color + laquer must be the preferred method imo..
and as for rust removing chemicals, if the rust is not that deep I would prefer sanding
and later clean the surface with cleaning thinners.. and prime it with epoxy..
if it is deep its a cut & weld job I'm afraid.. (and must note welding regions are more prone to rust as you heat the metal and dont quench it properly)
and I'm not sure any primer will like the surface covered with rust removing chemicals.. :-\
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The Bilt and Hammer stuff is VERY good, deoxy gel is the one of choice as it sticks to vertical and undersides.
It may take a few treatments to get all the oxidisation off but it will remove it.
For info, I use this on very old rusty things and it hence for me its proven, Vx also recommended to thier dealers when they had warranty issues on some of the Vans.