Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: hotel21 on 17 April 2013, 21:49:31
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When I was a ships engineer many moons ago it entailed living in close confines with folks who were of assorted political hues as well as sexual orientation - but that is a discussion for another day!
One of the things that were taboo to discuss in the bar was politics due to the entrenched views of some against the non committal viewpoint of others. It made for an unpleasant bar of an evening and so, were universally banned.
Like most on here I am a member of assorted forums and groups on the Internet. Some have subjects that are the source of merriment and others have subjects that cause infinite grief (such as tyre or oil threads in here.
One of the subjects which cause the biggest consternation of late due to the demise of Baroness Thatcher is politics. This includes their discussion, views of members and on one forum, the actions of a vociferous few trying to impose their manifesto on others.
Question (and a poll).
Should politics be allowed on here or not? Poll will be added.
Discussion welcome but would rather it was kept polite and not to degenerate into a slagging match. :)
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Yep no problem personally with politics being discussed on OOF - I tend to read political threads only and not post. ;)
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I think they should, but then again it would be a hard subject to police and as we have seen of late it can cause quite a few arguments, but given the right mix of people any subject can cause an argument so if politics were to be banned were would we stop. I think people need to respect that everyone has an opinion and that everyone is entitled to that opinion and in their own eyes that opinion is right while to everyone else it might seem like total bo###cks.
Right I'm away to hide under the bed before the barrage of attacks start ;D :D
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Politics is as valid a topic for discussion in Gen Dis as any other imho :)
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I enjoy a bit of political discussion from time to time,so Im in favour of it being allowed to continue.
Imo theres is less political discussion in genchat than there used to be,but it might not appear that way as a lot of the time there isnt much else being discussed.The days of hilarious banter seem to be long gone sadly.
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[devils advocate mode on]
What about the silent majority (if there is one) who could easily feel that political discussion in its assorted forms (including signature tags and forum personas) is simply overpowering such that it restricts their wish to otherwise post?
This would include the 'mix of people' argument.
[devils advocate mode off]
:)
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The problem with politics is entrenched ideas .. if folks posted to learn or folks posted to inform ... then it might be different... but most posts are of the "I'm right, you're wrong" nature.
Add to that the use of "selective cut and paste" .. where folks do no directed research but rely on simply taking someone else's published works and posting some, or all, of it as "the absolute truth that must not be argued against"
Just leads to bad feeling, long winded posts, and very little "discussion" - but a lot of posturing IMHO .. :(
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personally i care little due to the arguments but thats a selfish view, quite a few on here like to have a good debate and i think it good there is something that interests them, if you want to read you can if not dont, I still read it its called learning.
If i was being honest i do however think there are more heated discussions about politics than anything else, but it does get people talking sensibly most of the time , so it cant be all bad.
I would not like to see it banned for other forum members sake :y
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Given the above comments .. could there be a "3rd way" .. politics given its own sub-forum ?? Those that wish to go there can, knowing full well what it being discussed, those that don't can simply stay away ??
If that was in the Poll it would get my vote .. :)
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I think they should, but then again it would be a hard subject to police and as we have seen of late it can cause quite a few arguments, but given the right mix of people any subject can cause an argument so if politics were to be banned were would we stop. I think people need to respect that everyone has an opinion and that everyone is entitled to that opinion and in their own eyes that opinion is right while to everyone else it might seem like total bo###cks.
Right I'm away to hide under the bed before the barrage of attacks start ;D :D
Agreed everbody is entitled to their opinion, and opinions tend to be respected more where the topic is of a subjective nature rather than an objective nature, where we are not talking opinions, rather a correct or an incorrect response to somebody's cry for help. Fraid i and others tend to get argumentative when technically incorrect assistance given to members by inexperienced members.
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There are a few more topics you can add to the list that should be off limits Broccie....climate, gun control and anything to do with Esty's arse to name a few.
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Entwood - a separate subforum is not an option hence not included in the poll. :)
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Guffer - subjects suitable for 'banning' not currently open for discussion, other than politics. :)
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Gen discussion is just that imo.
As long as the language is toned down incase any minors are about and it doesn't turn into a my nobs bigger then your nob type bitch fight then anything should be allowed.
The thread is there.
If you don't want to join in then you don't have to :)
If stuff gets out of hand then a subtle warning / dry slap from Admin / Mods should suffice ;)
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I also agree with the right honurable gentleman mr entwood in his first quote, but still would not like to see it banned
to use an example ref Maggie a certain back bencher was being a bit forcefull in thier views but I thought Our Own dame Lizzie handle the situatuion very well and in the end i quite enjoyed the read to be honest :y
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Surely its easy to just avoid political threads if it isnt what floats your boat,no ?
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I think there are some folk on here that tend to only post on political issues as perhaps its because that's what they enjoy talking about. so I think if it was banned those folk may not bothering coming on (that's a guess, not a fact).
however, like entwood says, there is a lot of ''i'm right, you're wrong'' and when I read the political threads it annoys me to see so much high and mighty bull.
so in short I say keep it but (and if possible) ban patronising. somebody could be right, wrong or very wrong.... but no need to talk down to them.
hth :y
ps, I very rarely post on the pol. threads (mainly for fear of being in receipt of the aforementioned patronising) but I like to read them.
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Gen discussion is just that imo.
As long as the language is toned down incase any minors are about and it doesn't turn into a my nobs bigger then your nob type bitch fight then anything should be allowed.
The thread is there.
If you don't want to join in then you don't have to :)
If stuff gets out of hand then a subtle warning / dry slap from Admin / Mods should suffice ;)
It's like fighting crime by means of a visible police presence. If you don't see the police then anything is possible.
How many housebreakings/burglaries, thefts, rapes etc etc are prevented because a plod uniform is floating about?
If folks remain silent because 'oh fek. Another political thread/degenerated into a political slanging match with staunch and vociferous combatants' then very soon they will vote with their finger and move away to somewhere else where they don't need to read yet another political bitching sesh?
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Gen discussion is just that imo.
As long as the language is toned down incase any minors are about and it doesn't turn into a my nobs bigger then your nob type bitch fight then anything should be allowed.
The thread is there.
If you don't want to join in then you don't have to :)
If stuff gets out of hand then a subtle warning / dry slap from Admin / Mods should suffice ;)
That tends to be my philosophy, I can choose not to join in... :y There are some opinionated members though that should at least accept that others may have a differing point of view, have equal right to post. I do not think it should be banned though I accept it may be difficult to Moderate sometimes........ I seem to recall, in my younger days, that Sex, Religion and Politics were the subjects to avoid in any gathering, particularly if drink is involved..... ::)
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Surely its easy to just avoid political threads if it isnt what floats your boat,no ?
True but with a caveat.
How many simply fade away/leave rather than ignore? Yet again?
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Gen discussion is just that imo.
As long as the language is toned down incase any minors are about and it doesn't turn into a my nobs bigger then your nob type bitch fight then anything should be allowed.
The thread is there.
If you don't want to join in then you don't have to :)
If stuff gets out of hand then a subtle warning / dry slap from Admin / Mods should suffice ;)
That tends to be my philosophy, I can choose not to join in... :y There are some opinionated members though that should at least accept that others may have a differing point of view, have equal right to post. I do not think it should be banned though I accept it may be difficult to Moderate sometimes........ I seem to recall, in my younger days, that Sex, Religion and Politics were the subjects to avoid in any gathering, particularly if drink is involved..... ::)
Seem to recall in my younger days Mike, particularly if drink was involved, that sex was a subject not to be avoided ::) ::) ;)
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Vamps - on the head....
I seem to recall, in my younger days, that Sex, Religion and Politics were the subjects to avoid in any gathering, particularly if drink is involved..... [\quote]
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Sorry but I voted wrongly, having misread the question, I meant to say Yes.......... :-[ :-[
Could a Mod please change my vote...... :y
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Surely its easy to just avoid political threads if it isnt what floats your boat,no ?
True but with a caveat.
How many simply fade away/leave dagger than ignore? Yet again?
Perhaps the answer is a far heavier moderator hand on the political threads then ?? Simply to stop the points you mentioned a couple of posts ago ?? Although this puts more work on the Staff which is always a bad idea as volunteers should not have to tidy up after others.. :(
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A heavier hand needs a guideline or understanding whereby the membership buys into it as well.
Think magic trees! ;D
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A heavier hand needs a guideline or understanding whereby the membership buys into it as well.
Think magic trees! ;D
:o :o :o :-X :-X :-X ;D
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Surely its easy to just avoid political threads if it isnt what floats your boat,no ?
exactly..
and as for copy and paste.. well, there are millions of subjects that you cant make a study on your own.. :)
can you write history again or news or formulas or physics or tests or whatever.. whats the difference going to a library and writing some paragraphs from there or from the net.. better forbid internet :D
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A heavier hand needs a guideline or understanding whereby the membership buys into it as well.
Think magic trees! ;D
oh dear i cant still trying to get the clenched buttock post image out of my head........i need therapy
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It may be interesting to see what would happen if political threads were banned for a period of,say 3 months. I suspect that some may think it would bring about the rejuvenation of general discussion.Personally I very much doubt it.Imo gendis and OOF in general are dying out for other reasons,but maybe theres only one way to find out ?
Also,dont see why a politics sticky similar to the jokes one couldnt be introduced if members wanted it ?
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Please remember that OOF is a car forum with a general discussion area, not a political forum with a car area.
Folks who are looking for omega chat and assorted but related discussion and laughs may easily be put off by a surplus of political viewpoint and simply remain quiet on the sidelines or leave.
Should the views of a few overpower the remaining masses?
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In the 60's when we had a family pub, my uncle the Landlord had a hard and fast rule about 3 topics that were banned:-
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Anything he didn't agree with
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I don't see that it encroaches on the forum as a car forum or as a whole. leave it in place and if people aren't interested they don't have to post.
but have it moderated more or less as the admins see fit. imo
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As for copy paste and quoting such endless copy paste - it very quickly deteriorates into tedium to read, in my opinion.
Easy to say 'move on and ignore then' but it kills serious discussion on some matters and only reinforces the argument relating to those posters with entrenched views that simply cannot or are not willing to consider the viewpoint of others. IMO. :)
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If gen discussion and gen carchat were reunited,it might dilute the political content in gen discussion.As I said earlier Im sure there is now less political discussion than there was 3 or 4 years ago,but also there isnt much else being discussed either,so as a percentage of "chat",it may be (or appear to be) higher.
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and I must note an important fact.. when a discussion develops, its not the one that starts problem, the problem starts when some members loose their control and temper quickly and start insults .. I have witnessed such cases several times.. and naturally admins get involved..
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In the 60's when we had a family pub, my uncle the Landlord had a hard and fast rule about 3 topics that were banned:-
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Anything he didn't agree with
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
How would your signature fit in then cleggy? ;D :)
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Guffer - subjects suitable for 'banning' not currently open for discussion, other than politics. :)
Sorry, I misunderstood the 'and stuff' but of the title. :y
Personally I detest discussing politics on here as it normally degenerates in to pointless drivel and tit for tats which lose their way and normally end up in disputes. I feel there are places for such discussions, places made for discussing drivel like politics.
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As for copy paste and quoting such endless copy paste - it very quickly deteriorates into tedium to read, in my opinion.
Easy to say 'move on and ignore then' but it kills serious discussion on some matters and only reinforces the argument relating to those posters with entrenched views that simply cannot or are not willing to consider the viewpoint of others. IMO. :)
I think it depends on whats pasted.. if it seems unlogical anyway no one will read/have to read/ forced to read
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If you ban discussion of politics where do you draw the line ? Almost everything involves politics. Someone mentions that petrol duty has risen in the budget - politics.
If they did mntion it, it would probably be having a bit of a moan and letting off a bit of steam in a benign way,which is imo,actually what most political threads are about.
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Albs -
If gen discussion and gen carchat were reunited,it might dilute the political content in gen discussion.As I said earlier Im sure there is now less political discussion than there was 3 or 4 years ago,but also there isnt much else being discussed either,so as a percentage of "chat",it may be (or appear to be) higher.
A fair comment.
However,main consideration under discussion is politics and its discussion as currently percieved, and whether it should be continued in its current format.
Does politics/EU/similar currently suppress gendiss?
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In the 60's when we had a family pub, my uncle the Landlord had a hard and fast rule about 3 topics that were banned:-
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Anything he didn't agree with
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
How would your signature fit in then cleggy? ;D :)
Allowed, he'd agree, the overriding factor number 3. No political discussion vote UKIP nothing else to discuss :y ;D ;D
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In the 60's when we had a family pub, my uncle the Landlord had a hard and fast rule about 3 topics that were banned:-
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Anything he didn't agree with
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
How would your signature fit in then cleggy? ;D :)
Allowed, he'd agree, the overriding factor number 3. No political discussion vote UKIP nothing else to discuss :y ;D ;D
In that case, as currently discussed, the adjudicator is biased and therefore disallowed! ;D
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If you look at the all time list of number of replies in the General Discussion area, you'll see that the Margaret Thatcher thread is at No. 13 and the recent Benefits thread is at No. 15, so clearly politics is of interest. The highest numbers are for games threads (add a word, etc.) and the dreaded Bus Nostalgia thread. It is only TB's tractor engine change and an LPG thread that are car-related.
Take away politics and you'll take away a great deal of interest in this section of the forum, IMHO.
I understand why some pub landlords ban politics and religion, but that's an entirely different issue. A landlord would not want to have a slanging match putting off people who want to come in and have a quiet drink, but this is not a pub and, as pointed out, if you don't do politics, don't read the thread. :y
Personally, I avoid the "Obituary" threads (Joe Bloggs, RIP - another celebrity stiff) and the "My Medical Problem" threads (I'm too squeamish!), but members should have every right to carry on posting such threads, even though they're not my cup of tea (or should that be "cups of tea?" ;) )
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Nickbat -
I understand why some pub landlords ban politics and religion, but that's an entirely different issue.
Why different?
Pub landlords want civilised educated discussion (perhaps) in their bar and subjects that are pleasant for others to join into rather than have to jump into the arguing affray afterwards with a pick axe handle and bash heads and ban folks?
Bit like on here sometimes then.... :)
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Would be more than interested in the views of newbies/low postcount members/silent majority on this subject, rather than simply viewpoints of the more established membership. :) :y
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I haven't voted either way as it doesn't bother me,if a thread on any topic doesn't interest me I don't bother to read any more and move on to another,seemples :y
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I haven't voted either way as it doesn't bother me,if a thread on any topic doesn't interest me I don't bother to read any more and move on to another,seemples :y
I do the same with quite a few subjects which dont interest me. :y Particularily tyre threads. ::)
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I've been a newbie more times than most (usually due to victimisation by a certain nasty admin) do I count? ;D
I can see how these political threads are becoming a pain for you admins to police and yes the infighting can come across as rather negative to new members but personally I'd rather certain members were told to grow up when a discussion hits playground level than ban a topic from conversation entirely.
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Nickbat - I understand why some pub landlords ban politics and religion, but that's an entirely different issue.
Why different?
Pub landlords want civilised educated discussion (perhaps) in their bar and subjects that are pleasant for others to join into rather than have to jump into the arguing affray afterwards with a pick axe handle and bash heads and ban folks?
Bit like on here sometimes then.... :)
Because this is online!
You talk of civilised educated discussion, but posts quoting "shite on foreskin" and "bashing the monkey" (from one of tonight's threads) go unremarked. I'm not saying that such posts should be banned — far from it — but I think it hypocritical to single out political arguments as offensive when others are, to some I suggest, rather more unpalatable.
But maybe that's just me. ;)
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I haven't voted either way as it doesn't bother me,if a thread on any topic doesn't interest me I don't bother to read any more and move on to another,seemples :y
I do the same with quite a few subjects which dont interest me. :y Particularily tyre threads. ::)
But how often does it discourage newbies when they see the 'adults' squabbling in a corner of the playground?
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Not sure that anything needs changing here tbh,I'm a member on a few forums and this is the best by a country mile. :y
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Would it be plausible to limit post size? Say to 500 words :-\
It might help to keep discussions fluid rather than allowing them to stagnate in verbosity.
I have voted in favour of allowing continued political discussion, as I feel an outright ban to be the top of a slippery slope.
With regard to entrenched arguements, it is quite frustrating to post any given topic, only to be met with pages of quotes, the contents of which are either misleading or plain irrelevant. Perhaps not allowing oneself to be drawn in to such exchanges is something that a few of us, myself included, might benefit from.
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Nickbat - missed the foreskin type things you refer too, been preoccupied with this thread (via mobile, not lappy or PC) and other tasks at the same time.
Regarding the pub/OOF comparison (without a divert onto foreskins) I suggest that the format is entirely similar.
Every journey needs small steps to start with. Perhaps OOF has simply been allowed to range too far out of line of the accepted norm and needs reigning in substantially. To do that needs boundaries and norms established and confirmed.
But then, we are into the realms of big bad mods rather than the Oof membership policing what's acceptable?
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Al - dunno about post limit size. Would need other reference points from more cleverer peeps before commenting back fully. :y
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Cap'n - your point about folks growing up somewhat is forefront in my mind..... :y
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Al - dunno about post limit size. Would need other reference points from more cleverer peeps before commenting back fully. :y
That thought did cross my mind, as I don't know if it would need to be applied across the forum, which in turn could impact the maintenance guides :-\
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General Discussion should be what it says on the tin and if you don't like it don't read it! :)
I think that the Maggie Thatcher thread has been an exception as she inflamed passions (Steady Lovelength!!! ::)) much more than most politicians do and it has been a historic moment in our nations history. :)
So in my opinion things are fine as they are and if the discussion gets a bit overheated then lock the thread! ;)
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I've been a newbie more times than most (usually due to victimisation by a certain nasty admin) do I count? ;D
I can see how these political threads are becoming a pain for you admins to police and yes the infighting can come across as rather negative to new members but personally I'd rather certain members were told to grow up when a discussion hits playground level than ban a topic from conversation entirely.
..and who decides what constitutes "playground level"? ???
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I've been a newbie more times than most (usually due to victimisation by a certain nasty admin) do I count? ;D
I can see how these political threads are becoming a pain for you admins to police and yes the infighting can come across as rather negative to new members but personally I'd rather certain members were told to grow up when a discussion hits playground level than ban a topic from conversation entirely.
..and who decides what constitutes "playground level"? ???
See reply #52
:y
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Can you take political discussions off "Show unread posts since last visit" ? Then people who want to chat (or argue) about non omega stuff have to select the category to do it. That would help keep the forum omega focused. Ditto for all 'general discussion' category posts. Otherwise this forum will become more of a clique and less about migs.
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General Discussion should be what it says on the tin and if you don't like it don't read it! :)
I think that the Maggie Thatcher thread has been an exception as she inflamed passions (Steady Lovelength!!! ::)) much more than most politicians do and it has been a historic moment in our nations history. :)
So in my opinion things are fine as they are and if the discussion gets a bit overheated then lock the thread! ;)
Blimey trigger i am impressed great post.......by the way the foreskin bit was me apologies if i offended anyone i do not mean to just trying to keep some banter going which i love on this place when its cooking and i get a bit carried away but a shot in my direction is fine .
It does seem to me however people are a little touchy now and seem to want to complain more than just join in. But after the 2 years i have been on here you get to know people as much as you can and if you are a genuine member you respect thier views and opinions. The maggie thread has dragged on but i think the politic parties of Nickbat Al and Lizzie handled it all very well and in my mind made it interesting and i actually came away with a bit more respect for what they had to say :y.....and to take away a subject they like is totally unfair
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The suggestion to remove political discussion is a valid argument.
But it`s flawed, because someone replying about a question regarding benefits might be seen by some on the far right as pandering to the breakless. Thats just an extreme example but could be considered a political comment. Certain members will always use forums to get on their soap box & preach their brand of politics.
But Mods could liven up the debate by flinging anyone they see fit into the OOF sin bin.
Create an area we can & see who`s been sidelined & why. Bung em in the stocks.
Perhaps repeat offenders could have rotten cyber tomatoes flung at em. or worse. ;D ;D
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[devils advocate]
This biggest problems of late have been in tyre, suspension and steering threads in General Car Chat, so if you want to stop the entrenched positions and members deleting their accounts should these subjects be banned? :o :o :o :o
[/devils advocate]
I think the answer to the above is no and members that are misbehaving should be told to bide quiet for the good of the forum. Many forums have yellow and red cards, with admins awarding these when behaviour from behind keyboards becomes unacceptable. Two yellows or a red card means a short ban.
I think members should beep two things in mind, would they be so rude face to face and what is achieved by continuous repetition of a previously stated point of view?
IMHO the whole point of forums is for the members to add their experience to threads which leads to enlightenment from useful knowledge or seeing things in ways that you hadn't thought about or understood. Even if you disagree with a constructive posting it can help to understand another point of view and why.
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Any subject can bring out a problem for admins.Although politics is a more contentious one granted.But the attitudes behind the particular topics in question being treated as a favourite,always by the same members seems to stand out.
Any subject can be discussed in ANY way.As stated by a member previously.The fashion here has become as he says,one of blowing off steam and having a moan.The subject itself is completely immaterial,as anyone can moan about any thing.
Over the years it seems this has become the basic mood here.Where as when the forum first started,it was almost the exact opposite.Helpful,upbeat,open minded.It seemed collectively,that anything could be done.No problem too great,no task too difficult,people would chip in,the almost impossible would be achieved.Or so it seemed.
Sadly that has gone,at least partly.Good will has left,obstructive disruptive has moved in.Seems to me the relevance of politics here is purely one of a starting point.Where the rot set in,rather than the subject itself being a problem.
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Maybe polotics gives the greatest scope for moaning. It's always the same members dragging the place down. Due to the political outlook on life those members have, not only do I skip their threads, I skip their posts on other topics as well. Eventually, may as well skip the forum completely.
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I think people should be able to say what they like within the accepted norms. I am a great believer in people being allowed to be what they are, If a person is a rascist or communist or fascist they should be allowed to be , yes if they call for violence that is a legal matter, but just to say "i hate green tree dwellers from mars" should be allowed. It is much betterfor people to be allowed to be what they are and gently try to change their opinion rather than blanket laws that drive people underground or only to discuss things within a select group.
Can't remember whos said it, but. Although you will change our ways of old, you will never changer our heart and soul.
What I am trying to say is I doubt you could stop politcal chat on a forum, for instance what do you do when someone slightly chages a name ? yes we no who they mean but is it political then.
I can understand where you are coming from, in a bar/enclosed space it could easily kick off with bad results. On a forum it is only words, only feelings get hurt.
Oh I do love to ramble on in a completly useless way :-\ :-\
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I have just sat and read through all 5 pages of this thread, basically inquisitive :y
My point of view is this.....
I don't agree online discussion is like 'pub' discussion. Pub discussions can lead to violence, keyboard discussion does not, unless you want to chuck the keyboard at the monitor.!!
When I see the 'big guns' going hammer and tongs, I just ignore it and move on. If I see a topic that does not interest me, I move on. Even if a topic does interest me, I rarely read the posts that are more than a few lines long. The half page stuff just does not register. Whether I agree or disagree vehemently, I have never thought 'stuff that place, I am going to leave' no matter what topic it is that makes my blood boil !!!
We are all adult....lets act like it :y
Sorry....I think I have caught Mantahatch disease ;D
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My opinion is that it's the negativity and bickering that we have to resolve. Politics brings a fair bit of that, but doesn't have a monopoly by any means. I just don't understand why we (and I include myself, as I know I've been guilty) turn up here to moan about every Daily Fail story we come across. We all have to deal with irritations in life, especially with the current economic climate in this country. If coming here just compounds them, people will find more positive things to do with their spare time.
This place is most unlike a pub in that respect. People can moan about things in a pub, share their issues, offer each other encouragement, have another beer, put the world to rights, laugh about how it wouldn't be like this if xyz was running the country and it doesn't drag the mood of the place down. Here, it doesn't work like that, IMHO. So, bring the positive things in life here, and use this place to escape the negative.
Then there's the bickering. If you disagree with someone, do you always go in with all guns blazing? Back to pubs, and in many establishments this would end in the car park. OK, there is no car park here when you're hiding behind a keyboard. That doesn't mean that the guns blazing approach is acceptable. A polite and well-reasoned response taking a contrary view allows both parties to learn something from the discussion, without making this a depressing place to be.
These are the issues we really have to resolve, IMHO.
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I have just sat and read through all 5 pages of this thread, basically inquisitive :y
My point of view is this.....
I don't agree online discussion is like 'pub' discussion. Pub discussions can lead to violence, keyboard discussion does not, unless you want to chuck the keyboard at the monitor.!!
When I see the 'big guns' going hammer and tongs, I just ignore it and move on. If I see a topic that does not interest me, I move on. Even if a topic does interest me, I rarely read the posts that are more than a few lines long. The half page stuff just does not register. Whether I agree or disagree vehemently, I have never thought 'stuff that place, I am going to leave' no matter what topic it is that makes my blood boil !!!
We are all adult....lets act like it :y
Sorry....I think I have caught Mantahatch disease ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Any subject can bring out a problem for admins.Although politics is a more contentious one granted.But the attitudes behind the particular topics in question being treated as a favourite,always by the same members seems to stand out.
Any subject can be discussed in ANY way.As stated by a member previously.The fashion here has become as he says,one of blowing off steam and having a moan.The subject itself is completely immaterial,as anyone can moan about any thing.
Over the years it seems this has become the basic mood here.Where as when the forum first started,it was almost the exact opposite.Helpful,upbeat,open minded.It seemed collectively,that anything could be done.No problem too great,no task too difficult,people would chip in,the almost impossible would be achieved.Or so it seemed.
Sadly that has gone,at least partly.Good will has left,obstructive disruptive has moved in.Seems to me the relevance of politics here is purely one of a starting point.Where the rot set in,rather than the subject itself being a problem.
Newbie? Really? ::) Reveal yourself....... :)
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
It not tha angle it is the height at which it should beset from the tarmac, come on get it right ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Any subject can bring out a problem for admins.Although politics is a more contentious one granted.But the attitudes behind the particular topics in question being treated as a favourite,always by the same members seems to stand out.
Any subject can be discussed in ANY way.As stated by a member previously.The fashion here has become as he says,one of blowing off steam and having a moan.The subject itself is completely immaterial,as anyone can moan about any thing.
Over the years it seems this has become the basic mood here.Where as when the forum first started,it was almost the exact opposite.Helpful,upbeat,open minded.It seemed collectively,that anything could be done.No problem too great,no task too difficult,people would chip in,the almost impossible would be achieved.Or so it seemed.
Sadly that has gone,at least partly.Good will has left,obstructive disruptive has moved in.Seems to me the relevance of politics here is purely one of a starting point.Where the rot set in,rather than the subject itself being a problem.
Newbie? Really? ::) Reveal yourself....... :)
I tink I know who this could be ???
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i think gen discusion on politics is a cood idea but keep it general if sombody starts to try and force their political veiws on a person it should be stomped on just in the interest of fairness and to stop political bullying
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why do people use gen discussion, in my opinion to sometimes talk crap, share events, maybe have a moan about something, or just find something they can get involved with and pehaps just have a bit of fun.
I dont think it matters what the subject is you will always get the jokers, the objective, the advice and the i am not inerested in this thread so i will moan
I ve been on hear for about 2 years and ive got to know most peoples bounderies for want of a better word as well as you can on the internet. therefore if you learn anything you know what may offend them and what may not. Put them in a corner and they come out fighting youve got yourself to blame, so man up apologise or defuse the situation, I dont think there is any harm in things getting a little heated after all they are not going to punch eachother but like a pub say there is always someone who will step in and say
ello elllo whats going on here then or calm don calm don and maybe now and again that is all that is needed
after all we all need to let off steam, politics is searious issue and i am more a lover than a speaker but some love it, personally i see more of a problem in taking it away 1) its certainly unfair to the politically minded OOFers 2) some of it is a bloody clever use of words that I for one find interesting 3) Isnt all politics about debate, different views and a good old fashioned scrap,
personaly my moneys on Lizzie. I actually really enjoyed the maggie thread had its moment when i was wtf but thats the British in me, and i know a few members did get upset but they had the balls to say something. After all if you make any comment at all on here you should expect a reply especially if it is derogatory
and besides which we know who the politicians are here just like they know who the fools are etc if you dont like it dont read it simples there is always something else to chat about or even argue about.
The forums an interesting place to be and some nights are better than others, maybe as some say the fun has gone, i dont belive that for one minute . I have my views but we have all moved on , but a few members are not as vocal since and thats a few not 1, maybe its just the forum has gone from a family to a collective of poeple only due to the numbers and sheer size of it now and perhaps the old family members, miss the old times and why shouldnt they, I know who they are and respect them dearly :y
If one of those members stepped into a coversation and told me off i would have no problem with an apology and respect thier cocerns in my small mind its thier forum i am a guest
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why do people use gen discussion, in my opinion to sometimes talk crap, share events, maybe have a moan about something, or just find something they can get involved with and pehaps just have a bit of fun.
I dont think it matters what the subject is you will always get the jokers, the objective, the advice and the i am not inerested in this thread so i will moan
I ve been on hear for about 2 years and ive got to know most peoples bounderies for want of a better word as well as you can on the internet. therefore if you learn anything you know what may offend them and what may not. Put them in a corner and they come out fighting youve got yourself to blame, so man up apologise or defuse the situation, I dont think there is any harm in things getting a little heated after all they are not going to punch eachother but like a pub say there is always someone who will step in and say
ello elllo whats going on here then or calm don calm don and maybe now and again that is all that is needed
after all we all need to let off steam, politics is searious issue and i am more a lover than a speaker but some love it, personally i see more of a problem in taking it away 1) its certainly unfair to the politically minded OOFers 2) some of it is a bloody clever use of words that I for one find interesting 3) Isnt all politics about debate, different views and a good old fashioned scrap,
personaly my moneys on Lizzie. I actually really enjoyed the maggie thread had its moment when i was wtf but thats the British in me, and i know a few members did get upset but they had the balls to say something. After all if you make any comment at all on here you should expect a reply especially if it is derogatory
and besides which we know who the politicians are here just like they know who the fools are etc if you dont like it dont read it simples there is always something else to chat about or even argue about.
The forums an interesting place to be and some nights are better than others, maybe as some say the fun has gone, i dont belive that for one minute . I have my views but we have all moved on , but a few members are not as vocal since and thats a few not 1, maybe its just the forum has gone from a family to a collective of poeple only due to the numbers and sheer size of it now and perhaps the old family members, miss the old times and why shouldnt they, I know who they are and respect them dearly :y
Good post Mr Lovealength :y
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Thanks H i had a litle cry half way through got a bit emotional but i am ok now :'( :'(
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Don't butter him up, H. Next thing we know it will be ...'Lovejoy (speechmaker) for Kent County Council' ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Everyone has to start somewhere. :y
But good post Paul :y
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Never really bother to read those kind of threads, so fine by me.
But it does appear to create a lot of work for the admins, as they have to step in when things get heated/messy :-\
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I like the politics stuff ..it gets away from the gay stuff ::)
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Never really bother to read those kind of threads, so fine by me.
But it does appear to create a lot of work for the admins, as they have to step in when things get heated/messy :-\
The recent "Benefits" thread was totally political and yet there were no less than 31 posts by admins/moderators themselves in the thread...and yet no-one got out of order at all, despite the highly-charged nature of the topic. And you contributed several times too, Tunnie!! ;) ;)
Interestingly, I have builders here at the moment and whist there's plenty of banter, there's also plenty of criticism about the country/government (others would call it moaning, but there's a fine line between the two, IMHO).
I think OOF merely reflects the mood of the public at large - a mood which has become increasingly political over the last couple of years (again, IMHO - not reported as fact). ;)
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Would be more than interested in the views of newbies/low postcount members/silent majority on this subject, rather than simply viewpoints of the more established membership. :) :y
I'm not exactly a newbie, but considering the 2 years+ I've been on here I do have a low post count.
I no longer have an Omega, after replacing it with a Vectra, but one of the reasons I come back to here is because of all the forums that I visit this has a good balance of serious discussion and inane banter. Now, I'm really not that interested in the inane banter (although some of it can be quite humorous) but I do like the serious discussion and those threads are the ones I specifically tend to open and return to. As far as I can tell, most of the political discussions seem to be well balanced and tolerant of other people's views. I think this was particularly true of the Maggie thread where there didn't seem to be many (or any - I don't remember it all) personal attacks.
Politics is part of our life, like it or not. If we can't have such discussions in GenDis it would make this forum a less attractive place for me to come. I intensely dislike censorship, particularly in what should be adult conversations, as it always seems to be another step towards totalitarian control such as we see in places like N. Korea (oops, getting politacl there!).
So leave it alone. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't have an opinion, let those that do have their say.
Long live OOF!
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I am a builder type probably would not have guessed, before i came on OOF knew nowt about politics
and now i do and quite often take what i have learned to work although sometimes putting information in the hands of an idot can be dangerous :D
i wouldnt watch politics on the TV but would certainley read posts by the right hounerable Nickbat , Lizzie, citizen albs and a few back benchers :y
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I am a builder type probably would not have guessed, before i came on OOF knew nowt about politics
and now i do and quite often take what i have learned to work although sometimes putting information in the hands of an idot can be dangerous :D
i wouldnt watch politics on the TV but would certainley read posts by the right dishounerable Nickbat , Lizzie, citizen albs and a few back benchers :y
Fixed that for you, Paul. ;) ;D
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Would be more than interested in the views of newbies/low postcount members/silent majority on this subject, rather than simply viewpoints of the more established membership. :) :y
I'm not exactly a newbie, but considering the 2 years+ I've been on here I do have a low post count.
I no longer have an Omega, after replacing it with a Vectra, but one of the reasons I come back to here is because of all the forums that I visit this has a good balance of serious discussion and inane banter. Now, I'm really not that interested in the inane banter (although some of it can be quite humorous) but I do like the serious discussion and those threads are the ones I specifically tend to open and return to. As far as I can tell, most of the political discussions seem to be well balanced and tolerant of other people's views. I think this was particularly true of the Maggie thread where there didn't seem to be many (or any - I don't remember it all) personal attacks.
Politics is part of our life, like it or not. If we can't have such discussions in GenDis it would make this forum a less attractive place for me to come. I intensely dislike censorship, particularly in what should be adult conversations, as it always seems to be another step towards totalitarian control such as we see in places like N. Korea (oops, getting politacl there!).
So leave it alone. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you don't have an opinion, let those that do have their say.
Long live OOF!
Politics is part of our daily live and I tend to watch The Daily Politics, the lefty bias Question Time ( only after I have overdosed on blood pressure tablets ;D) etc.
I like to listen to others views, all of whose opinions are valid to them, they just don't know the history, facts or are just simply wrong ::) . To be honest the thing I find most frustating is Party Politics, we have to vote for those who we agree with the most. The barstewards do the opposite once elected.
Without peoples opinion and discussion then OOF is nothing, apart from the great help and expertise with regards to the cars, which I have found invaluable, along with those members who have helped at the tools level. :y
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Any subject can bring out a problem for admins.Although politics is a more contentious one granted.But the attitudes behind the particular topics in question being treated as a favourite,always by the same members seems to stand out.
Any subject can be discussed in ANY way.As stated by a member previously.The fashion here has become as he says,one of blowing off steam and having a moan.The subject itself is completely immaterial,as anyone can moan about any thing.
Over the years it seems this has become the basic mood here.Where as when the forum first started,it was almost the exact opposite.Helpful,upbeat,open minded.It seemed collectively,that anything could be done.No problem too great,no task too difficult,people would chip in,the almost impossible would be achieved.Or so it seemed.
Sadly that has gone,at least partly.Good will has left,obstructive disruptive has moved in.Seems to me the relevance of politics here is purely one of a starting point.Where the rot set in,rather than the subject itself being a problem.
Would you like a bowl of custard ;)
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You can check out any time you like,but.................. ::) ;D
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General Discussion should be what it says on the tin and if you don't like it don't read it! :)
I think that the Maggie Thatcher thread has been an exception as she inflamed passions (Steady Lovelength!!! ::)) much more than most politicians do and it has been a historic moment in our nations history. :)
So in my opinion things are fine as they are and if the discussion gets a bit overheated then lock the thread! ;)
Blimey trigger i am impressed great post.......by the way the foreskin bit was me apologies if i offended anyone i do not mean to just trying to keep some banter going which i love on this place when its cooking and i get a bit carried away but a shot in my direction is fine .
It does seem to me however people are a little touchy now and seem to want to complain more than just join in. But after the 2 years i have been on here you get to know people as much as you can and if you are a genuine member you respect thier views and opinions. The maggie thread has dragged on but i think the politic parties of Nickbat Al and Lizzie handled it all very well and in my mind made it interesting and i actually came away with a bit more respect for what they had to say :y.....and to take away a subject they like is totally unfair
Thanks Paul, and for the earlier post where you quoted me :-* :-* :y :y
Surprise, surprise I agree with your comments entirely and would never want a ban placed on "Political" or any other type of thread.
We live in a democracy with a God given right to free speech that our Great Country has fought hard for at a huge cost in blood and power. This forum is part of the UK, being based here, and should be an extension of our democracy. There are no Chinese, North Korean or Russian 'Masters' to restrict our intellectual property, that of free thought and expression of ideas, observations, along with criticism. No one person therefore should have the power to restrict the flow of expression on the OOF, providing the comments do not directly offend, insult, or impinge on the freedom of others.
If the OOF was to impose a ban on all delicate or controversial threads, it will devalue itself and become a sterile, puerile, dumb-downed area of non-activity for thought and mind. It will be just a car forum, nothing else, nothing more, and how many people on here really want to discuss cars continually? I suggest the active membership on here would fall away dramatically.
Why some never comment on anything is purely reflecting what life out there is like. As I have stated before, humans are a mixture of those who never lift their voices and be counted; those who do but only stick to "safe" subjects; then those who don't care to comment on anything because they cannot be bothered; others voice their opinions without fear or favour, whilst others are more reserved and simply "go with the flow". There are hundreds of different versions of human being and their thought, so a forum like ours will attract a cross section of people, although with a strong emphasis of enthusiasm in engineering, cars, and Omega's in particular.
So I say let their be freedom for all on here to discuss what they have a heart to, whilst having respect for fellow humans! :y :y
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your welcome dame Lizzie...i just love when you get all political and talk tough :) :) :) just a shame wifey wont spank me as i read :-[ i have been so naughty
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My opinion is that it's the negativity and bickering that we have to resolve. Politics brings a fair bit of that, but doesn't have a monopoly by any means. I just don't understand why we (and I include myself, as I know I've been guilty) turn up here to moan about every Daily Fail story we come across. We all have to deal with irritations in life, especially with the current economic climate in this country. If coming here just compounds them, people will find more positive things to do with their spare time.
This place is most unlike a pub in that respect. People can moan about things in a pub, share their issues, offer each other encouragement, have another beer, put the world to rights, laugh about how it wouldn't be like this if xyz was running the country and it doesn't drag the mood of the place down. Here, it doesn't work like that, IMHO. So, bring the positive things in life here, and use this place to escape the negative.
Then there's the bickering. If you disagree with someone, do you always go in with all guns blazing? Back to pubs, and in many establishments this would end in the car park. OK, there is no car park here when you're hiding behind a keyboard. That doesn't mean that the guns blazing approach is acceptable. A polite and well-reasoned response taking a contrary view allows both parties to learn something from the discussion, without making this a depressing place to be.
These are the issues we really have to resolve, IMHO.
That is because the OOF is an outlet for many individuals to express their innermost frustrations. I have been one who has complained about "doom and gloom" threads, but who am I to restrict anyone in their right to free speech and expression, as per my previous post. Those who do not want those threads need to do just one thing; do not read them! Just move on to a subject you want to discuss, or not. There is no obligation to read anything on the forum if you do not wish to.
I get depressed; very depressed, but it is usually about far more than what can be read on the OOF! ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
I think thats quite a good idea (or called whatever) with a warning saying its unmoderated......and just let them get on with it unmoderated :y
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you started her of now H21 :) this is just the begining :o
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
I think thats quite a good idea (or called whatever) with a warning saying its unmoderated......and just let them get on with it unmoderated :y
I said pretty much the same thing a while ago. but I dint think the mods wanted it (note ill support whatever the mods decide :y)
having thought about it a bit though, what if it got really out of hand.... racism, threats etc? I don't see that happening but its a potential and OOF wouldn't want to be associated with that imo :y
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you started her of now H21 :) this is just the begining :o
Well Hitler's birthday is in two days time, and I just hope I do not have to refer to him and his evil regime in this thread! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Ooooooops! now I have!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Contradiction?? ???
you started her of now H21 :) this is just the begining :o
Well Hitler's birthday is in two days time, and I just hope I do not have to refer to him and his evil regime in this thread! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Ooooooops! now I have!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Paul, and for the earlier post where you quoted me :-* :-* :y :y
Surprise, surprise I agree with your comments entirely and would never want a ban placed on "Political" or any other type of thread.
We live in a democracy with a God given right to free speech that our Great Country has fought hard for at a huge cost in blood and power. This forum is part of the UK, being based here, and should be an extension of our democracy. There are no Chinese, North Korean or Russian 'Masters' to restrict our intellectual property, that of free thought and expression of ideas, observations, along with criticism. No one person therefore should have the power to restrict the flow of expression on the OOF, providing the comments do not directly offend, insult, or impinge on the freedom of others.
If the OOF was to impose a ban on all delicate or controversial threads, it will devalue itself and become a sterile, puerile, dumb-downed area of non-activity for thought and mind. It will be just a car forum, nothing else, nothing more, and how many people on here really want to discuss cars continually? I suggest the active membership on here would fall away dramatically.
snippo
So I say let their be freedom for all on here to discuss what they have a heart to, whilst having respect for fellow humans! :y :y
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
I think thats quite a good idea (or called whatever) with a warning saying its unmoderated......and just let them get on with it unmoderated :y
I said pretty much the same thing a while ago. but I dint think the mods wanted it (note ill support whatever the mods decide :y)
having thought about it a bit though, what if it got really out of hand.... racism, threats etc? I don't see that happening but its a potential and OOF wouldn't want to be associated with that imo :y
this is really adults playtime teddy bear if some one got up set by something i said i would apologise and let them share my sweets :)
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you started her of now H21 :) this is just the begining :o
Well Hitler's birthday is in two days time, and I just hope I do not have to refer to him and his evil regime in this thread! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Ooooooops! now I have!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Too far to the left of Ghengis Khan for me ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
I think thats quite a good idea (or called whatever) with a warning saying its unmoderated......and just let them get on with it unmoderated :y
I said pretty much the same thing a while ago. but I dint think the mods wanted it (note ill support whatever the mods decide :y)
having thought about it a bit though, what if it got really out of hand.... racism, threats etc? I don't see that happening but its a potential and OOF wouldn't want to be associated with that imo :y
this is really adults playtime teddy bear if some one got up set by something i said i would apologise and let them share my sweets :)
completely agree mate, I hate upsetting people and if I do i'm the first to apologise. are there people out there(in the world, not OOF) that think differently though :-\
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Anyway things can get more interesting when there's a bit of mudslinging! ;D
I've suggested it before, but maybe we should have a 'Handbags' section, so when things kick off in whatever type of thread, then the Mods move it to 'handbags'....
Then if you've had a hard day and fancy a bit of a chuckle you can head to Handbags and wonder at the irate member berating another because he disagrees with the angle a mudflap should be set at.... ::)
I think thats quite a good idea (or called whatever) with a warning saying its unmoderated......and just let them get on with it unmoderated :y
I said pretty much the same thing a while ago. but I dint think the mods wanted it (note ill support whatever the mods decide :y)
having thought about it a bit though, what if it got really out of hand.... racism, threats etc? I don't see that happening but its a potential and OOF wouldn't want to be associated with that imo :y
I can see your point :y and its a difficult one .... maybe along the same lines.....but this was moved to this section as a warning......if it gets any worse it will get deleted no warnings :-\
Personally tho and ive been sitting on the fence a bit on which way to vote.....ive just decided :)
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Contradiction?? ???
you started her of now H21 :) this is just the begining :o
Well Hitler's birthday is in two days time, and I just hope I do not have to refer to him and his evil regime in this thread! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Ooooooops! now I have!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Paul, and for the earlier post where you quoted me :-* :-* :y :y
Surprise, surprise I agree with your comments entirely and would never want a ban placed on "Political" or any other type of thread.
We live in a democracy with a God given right to free speech that our Great Country has fought hard for at a huge cost in blood and power. This forum is part of the UK, being based here, and should be an extension of our democracy. There are no Chinese, North Korean or Russian 'Masters' to restrict our intellectual property, that of free thought and expression of ideas, observations, along with criticism. No one person therefore should have the power to restrict the flow of expression on the OOF, providing the comments do not directly offend, insult, or impinge on the freedom of others.
If the OOF was to impose a ban on all delicate or controversial threads, it will devalue itself and become a sterile, puerile, dumb-downed area of non-activity for thought and mind. It will be just a car forum, nothing else, nothing more, and how many people on here really want to discuss cars continually? I suggest the active membership on here would fall away dramatically.
snippo
So I say let their be freedom for all on here to discuss what they have a heart to, whilst having respect for fellow humans! :y :y
No Hotel21, not at all. You can work that both ways. I have freely spoken of Hitler and his evil regime on a free forum. If a ban was placed on such comment, as would have been the case within that regime, then it proves how any restriction can halt the spread of knowledge, understanding, and an ability of an individual to grasp great events that affect us all to this day. Who has the right to stop that "flow"? ;)
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I love this. A thread about banning threads that turn nasty threatening to turn nasty. ;D
Bollix :P
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At the end of the day the admins have the right to stop the flow or do anything else they want to do.They own the site and can decide what is or isnt allowed.It isnt a democracy.
I feel that the probem is much wider than political threads tbh.Overtly political threads could,if they wished,be put in their own sticky jusy like jokes have.But maybe they know that isnt really the be all and end all of the problems ?
Once upon a time OOF was a brilliant place to come after a day at work and laugh until your stomach muscles hurt,have cruel but very harmless banter etc etc.
Imo that was a fantastically happy coincidence of those particular people meeting each other (online) at that particular time. It would be great if it could have been bottled so to speak and brought back out and sprinkled around like holy water when things got a bit boring.
Life isnt like that unfortunately,and we cant repeat how things once were.That was then,this is now,and OOF is what it is now.
There are various reasons imo,for why things have ended up like they are,and Im sure everyone has a different opinion on the subject.
Imo the question for the admins actually is - should it be allowed to carry on as it now is or is it time to switch of the server. Only they can answer that.If they are really unhappy about the direction OOF is heading in,then they need to decide individually and as a group if they feel its worth their time and effort to keep it going or whether to call it a day before it becomes unbearably tedious.
Personally, I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
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At the end of the day the admins have the right to stop the flow or do anything else they want to do.They own the site and can decide what is or isnt allowed.It isnt a democracy.
I feel that the probem is much wider than political threads tbh.Overtly political threads could,if they wished,be put in their own sticky jusy like jokes have.But maybe they know that isnt really the be all and end all of the problems ?
Once upon a time OOF was a brilliant place to come after a day at work and laugh until your stomach muscles hurt,have cruel but very harmless banter etc etc.
Imo that was a fantastically happy coincidence of those particular people meeting each other (online) at that particular time. It would be great if it could have been bottled so to speak and brought back out and sprinkled around like holy water when things got a bit boring.
Life isnt like that unfortunately,and we cant repeat how things once were.That was then,this is now,and OOF is what it is now.
There are various reasons imo,for why things have ended up like they are,and Im sure everyone has a different opinion on the subject.
Imo the question for the admins actually is - should it be allowed to carry on as it now is or is it time to switch of the server. Only they can answer that.If they are really unhappy about the direction OOF is heading in,then they need to decide individually and as a group if they feel its worth their time and effort to keep it going or whether to call it a day before it becomes unbearably tedious.
Personally, I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
Sorry Albitz, but yes it is due to the Admins authorizing:
"General Chat is what it says, you can talk about anything and everything as long as it is legal."
as per the site guide.
If the forum is not part of our democracy, then I will be very disappointed and will review my contribution to the OOF. ;) ;)
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True - but,they of course reserve the right to amend that,which it would appear they are now considering. ;)
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True - but,they of course reserve the right to amend that,which it would appear they are now considering. ;)
:y
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True - but,they of course reserve the right to amend that,which it would appear they are now considering. ;)
Now that I would accept to be the case. :y :y
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At the end of the day the admins have the right to stop the flow or do anything else they want to do.They own the site and can decide what is or isnt allowed.It isnt a democracy.
I feel that the probem is much wider than political threads tbh.Overtly political threads could,if they wished,be put in their own sticky jusy like jokes have.But maybe they know that isnt really the be all and end all of the problems ?
Once upon a time OOF was a brilliant place to come after a day at work and laugh until your stomach muscles hurt,have cruel but very harmless banter etc etc.
Imo that was a fantastically happy coincidence of those particular people meeting each other (online) at that particular time. It would be great if it could have been bottled so to speak and brought back out and sprinkled around like holy water when things got a bit boring.
Life isnt like that unfortunately,and we cant repeat how things once were.That was then,this is now,and OOF is what it is now.
There are various reasons imo,for why things have ended up like they are,and Im sure everyone has a different opinion on the subject.
Imo the question for the admins actually is - should it be allowed to carry on as it now is or is it time to switch of the server. Only they can answer that.If they are really unhappy about the direction OOF is heading in,then they need to decide individually and as a group if they feel its worth their time and effort to keep it going or whether to call it a day before it becomes unbearably tedious.
Personally, I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
I think OOF is fine as it is. It hasn't changed much since 2008 in my view. :y
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At the end of the day the admins have the right to stop the flow or do anything else they want to do.They own the site and can decide what is or isnt allowed.It isnt a democracy.
I feel that the probem is much wider than political threads tbh.Overtly political threads could,if they wished,be put in their own sticky jusy like jokes have.But maybe they know that isnt really the be all and end all of the problems ?
Once upon a time OOF was a brilliant place to come after a day at work and laugh until your stomach muscles hurt,have cruel but very harmless banter etc etc.
Imo that was a fantastically happy coincidence of those particular people meeting each other (online) at that particular time. It would be great if it could have been bottled so to speak and brought back out and sprinkled around like holy water when things got a bit boring.
Life isnt like that unfortunately,and we cant repeat how things once were.That was then,this is now,and OOF is what it is now.
There are various reasons imo,for why things have ended up like they are,and Im sure everyone has a different opinion on the subject.
Imo the question for the admins actually is - should it be allowed to carry on as it now is or is it time to switch of the server. Only they can answer that.If they are really unhappy about the direction OOF is heading in,then they need to decide individually and as a group if they feel its worth their time and effort to keep it going or whether to call it a day before it becomes unbearably tedious.
Personally, I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
I think OOF is fine as it is. It hasn't changed much since 2008 in my view. :y
+1. I love it and the input on my blog has been immense :y
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My impression is that it has changed quite a lot,but perhaps its me thats changed more than OOF has. :-\
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theres only one thing that will change OFF for those that think there is a problem admins excluded
and thats the people on here
you can leed a horse to water but you cant make it drink
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I love this. A thread about banning threads that turn nasty threatening to turn nasty. ;D
Bollix :P
;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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My impression is that it has changed quite a lot,but perhaps its me thats changed more than OOF has. :-\
changed in my opinion.. 2-3 years ago, debates more heavy than now were tolerated but now seems like admins fingers tend/want to go more quickly on the push button.. ;D or else why they would start a thread like this one :-\
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must add though, due to the nature of humans, more heavy discussions will attract more audience , and if we think economically OOF could take more ads ;D honestly why OOF dont take adds is another question :-\ why not ?
ps: in our local car forums all of them take ads.. and heated debates are highly desired ;D and mostly end up ona road track :o
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(No malicious intent meant to any OOF member, named, implied or otherwise - but exercising might right as a member to present my feelings on this)
Speaking as a long(est) standing member here, I think Kevin Wood has hit the nail on the head.
At the risk of going slightly OT, I don't think its politics per se, but the attitudes and entrenched views of many of the members posting on those threads. We could repeat the same for other passionate threads such as oil, tyre, brake topics - although it would be daft to ban these on a car related forum ;D. That said, we used to half heartedly ban oil threads at the start.
The trouble is, at the moment, the state of gendis IMHO is bloody depressing. Every thread I read is depressing. At the end of it, I feel depressed.
OK, I could choose not to read them - actually I do choose not to most of the time, because invariably its not open debate, but people forcefully presenting their own agendas (but don't tell my fellow Moderators, as this clearly puts extra load on them :-X). I wonder how many other members choose not to get involved in gendis for the same reason? I think the answer to that question lies in the fact that its the same old posts, with the same old members posting the same old crap.
However, I think the poison in this is that the moaning/bitching becomes quite contagious. And this is the absolute key. How many new members want to actually join in, when all they see is a clique (to use a term often banded about by those responsible for a lot of the negativity) of people with dubious, entrenched personal viewpoints on subjects, and are scathing to anyone who disagrees. I'm a long standing member, and I don't want to join in. God only knows what the newbies think. The fact that virtually no new genuine newbie has posted speaks volumes.
Look back at the earliest threads. There was an air of positivity across the entire forum. The site was welcoming to all. People arranged fixing sessions at their homes, with loads of members turning up, all in order to genuinely help. Yes, sure, as DLK will say, some members took the piss, which is something I know really goaded him, but lots was achieved, and nothing was impossible. The national meets (Lakes and Newent) were packed (as were York and EA), the day meets busy.
Fast forward to now. There is an air of distrust, negativity, and general depression. Yes, we live in difficult times, and I'm guessing none of us are exactly rich, thats why we drive Omegas. But to spill that depression over into our little online world has killed the community aspect of the site.
The forum's heart follows that of its active members. Tosh? Take up my suggestion to read the earliest posts on the site, and then deny that you don't feel uplifted by it - its a method I use every time I hover over the Delete Account button.
So, to directly answer the question set by Hotel21, I'm unsure. I welcome free speech, within the guidelines, but think a lot of the problems that OOF has now stems from the depressing threads about politics (and others).
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Right, now speaking as a member of the Admin Team, again, not pointed at anyone, named or otherwise. And again, sorry in advance for straying OT at times :-[
Having been here from the start, I have met and made many friends here. Some have become very good friends - the sort I know I can ring up in an hour of need, and they will come/help/listen/whatever is needed.
Whether these are friends or close friends, they are deemed to be in the clique of the forum, by some factions of the site, and that these "TB's chums" as one forwarded PM who who's sender/grasser wanted to remain anonymous put it, actually had access to priviledged information, or controlled the direction of the forum, or could "get away with anything". This pisses me off, as clearly it goes beyond just questioning my integrity. Nothing could be further from the truth - I'm sure those that fall into that category of close friends will confirm, I probably over compensate, and give them less benefit of the doubt. I have my suspicions thats why Gixer left, because I was always on his case, rather than the 'dangle berries' he spun me when I asked him last week. I believe had I not been an Admin here, he would still be here, for one of two reasons; 1) I wouldn't have been on his case so much; 2) he was concious he could potentially put me in a difficult position.
I genuinely do not believe I, or any other member of the Admin Team (past or present), has ever been unapproachable or unwelcoming of new people, either online, or face-to-face. But if someone chirps up and says otherwise, thats a lesson I/we need to take onboard.
Back to the factions in OOF, I spent virtually every spare hour I had for about 5 months trawling through logs and backups looking for evidence of "instant ban teritory" abuse due to constant rumours against a very active member here, and one of "TBs chums". Only to find it was all untrue, and all paths led back to a single member. I've got far better things to be doing with my spare time than this, esp when it was just a petty lie (for what reason, I don't know) that gained traction within that faction, then because quite a few people were secretly saying it, many accepted it as truth. This is simply not acceptable, and is bloody childish. FFS.
The images server is paid up for the next 26 months. I know, because I checked last month when a wacky thought went through my head (during that week I was contemplating actually finding out what that Delete Account button did) - what would happen if we just cut OOF loose, to survive on its own, with no moderation, further financing and effort. I never presented such an idea to the admin team, as I knew that would get universal disapproval, as you would expect. Imagine the smirk on my face when I read a similar suggestion in modchat earlier this evening :D
There, I've said too much already, but maybe a small insight.
To answer H21's question as an admin, I vote for banning them, as they are a source for nastiness here.
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theres only one thing that will change OFF for those that think there is a problem admins excluded
and thats the people on here
you can leed a horse to water but you cant make it drink
Not unless it belongs to doz.....his horse makes its own way ;D ;D
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True - but,they of course reserve the right to amend that,which it would appear they are now considering. ;)
And finally....
The Admin Team reserve the right to alter these guidelines at any time.
The decision of the Admin Team is final in all cases.
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I wasn't going to post again having had my say earlier...
but I would just like to say a loud THANK YOU to TB for his openness and honesty in the above two posts.
nail and head come together very succinctly IMHO
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newbie bit hit home a bit remeber when i was first here was made to feel very welcome and more so at Newent do you know dont think i have never said hi and welcome to many :-[
but always remeber how difficult it was to chat/add to a topic but mind you i was lucky being a previous owner of Bobs and now Ljays car it felt like a foot in the door
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but mind you i was lucky being a previous owner of Bobs and now Ljays car it felt like a foot in the door
I never knew that :o
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blimmey guvnor where you been ;D ;D ;D thought you had your
thumb finger on the button
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its bobs bloody fault you lot have to put up with me :-[
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I love this. A thread about banning threads that turn nasty threatening to turn nasty. ;D
Bollix :P
As ever............. :D :D :D
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After reading what TB has just wrote, I never thought i'd say this but Imo, its time to shut down the Gen Discussion section for a few weeks or so and let things calm down.
Lets get this forum back to what it used to be ................. a car forum.
The banter will carry on regardless in other sections (hopefully) :)
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I dont think the heated threads have been in general discussion recently tbh.The threads which have got heated and argumentitive have mostly been in other sections,and imo there was usually one common denominator - and I dont mean Cem. :-X
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After reading what TB has just wrote, I never thought i'd say this but Imo, its time to shut down the Gen Discussion section for a few weeks or so and let things calm down.
Lets get this forum back to what it used to be ................. a car forum.
The banter will carry on regardless in other sections (hopefully) :)
IMHO, all WAS calm...until this thread was started, that is.
Navel gazing when there's nothing to see. ::)
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I haven't voted either way as it doesn't bother me,if a thread on any topic doesn't interest me I don't bother to read any more and move on to another,seemples :y
I do the same with quite a few subjects which dont interest me. :y Particularily tyre threads. ::)
I dont think the heated threads have been in general discussion recently tbh.The threads which have got heated and argumentitive have mostly been in other sections,and imo there was usually one common denominator - and I dont mean Cem. :-X
Precisely the point I was trying to imply, some factions have their own agenda, and only for their own reasons, rather than the for the good of the community.
He's left. So no need to continue trying.
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After reading what TB has just wrote, I never thought i'd say this but Imo, its time to shut down the Gen Discussion section for a few weeks or so and let things calm down.
Lets get this forum back to what it used to be ................. a car forum.
The banter will carry on regardless in other sections (hopefully) :)
I am not being called love length in the car chat sections mate i got standards ( somwhere) now where did i put those standard thingys
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I haven't voted either way as it doesn't bother me,if a thread on any topic doesn't interest me I don't bother to read any more and move on to another,seemples :y
I do the same with quite a few subjects which dont interest me. :y Particularily tyre threads. ::)
I dont think the heated threads have been in general discussion recently tbh.The threads which have got heated and argumentitive have mostly been in other sections,and imo there was usually one common denominator - and I dont mean Cem. :-X
Precisely the point I was trying to imply, some factions have their own agenda, and only for their own reasons, rather than the for the good of the community.
He's left. So no need to continue trying.
I think the factions angle is being at least overblown if not entirely imagined tbh.One or two people will rub people up the wrong way and make themselves unpopular with certain people,but that doesnt mean things have got factionalised.
To have an agenda would be a bit sad and demonstrate a lack of perspective.Its an online car forum at the end of the day,not something which is significant in everyday life in the grand scheme of things. ;)
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At the end of the day TB,AA,H21 and MDTM and the mods give up a lot of there time and I suspect(some)money to keep this place rolling,at the end of the day its there forum and the rest of us are just members,I think its up to the Admins/mods to decide what goes here and for the rest of of us to just go with it,tbh I was a little surprised to see H21's poll about yay or nay to politics ???
Don't change too much though guys,this place is A ok :y :y
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At the end of the day TB,AA,H21 and MDTM and the mods give up a lot of there time and I suspect(some)money to keep this place rolling,at the end of the day its there forum and the rest of us are just members,I think its up to the Admins/mods to decide what goes here and for the rest of of us to just go with it,tbh I was a little surprised to see H21's poll about yay or nay to politics ???
Don't change too much though guys,this place is A ok :y :y
Agreed and at the end of the day admins decisions are final ;)
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Too late tonight to join back into this thread but comments welcome.
TBH politics as a subject header was a convenient hook to provoke responses but at the time in my mind, was pertinent. And remains so.
Don't really want this thread to become another sop for the masses towards admin nor should it be a general bitchfest but the fact that the general mood of the forum - as I readit anyway - is lower than a snakes belly where most of the posting is in gendiss by folks who no longer have an omega. Further, most appear to have no interesting inputing anything to Oof other than comments in gendiss rather than help sections?
As TB says, we have moved on and it is not where I personally want it to be, sadly.
And I don't really want to be there with it. :-[
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Too late tonight to join back into this thread but comments welcome.
TBH politics as a subject header was a convenient hook to provoke responses but at the time in my mind, was pertinent. And remains so.
Don't really want this thread to become another sop for the masses towards admin nor should it be a general bitchfest but the fact that the general mood of the forum - as I readit anyway - is lower than a snakes belly where most of the posting is in gendiss by folks who no longer have an omega. Further, most appear to have no interesting inputing anything to Oof other than comments in gendiss rather than help sections?
As TB says, we have moved on and it is not where I personally want it to be, sadly.
And I don't really want to be there with it. :-[
Accept it while you can H21 :y
I personally no longer have an Omega, although we still have a 2.5 V6 fl Estate in the family. Whilst I do post in gendiss and gencarchat, I still post regularly in both Gen Help and Elec & Audio help when I feel I can offer correct advice to others.
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I love this one :y
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I love this one :y
?? Thread, Post or TB?????
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cos its interesting
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At the end of the day TB,AA,H21 and MDTM and the mods give up a lot of there time and I suspect(some)money to keep this place rolling,at the end of the day its there forum and the rest of us are just members,I think its up to the Admins/mods to decide what goes here and for the rest of of us to just go with it,tbh I was a little surprised to see H21's poll about yay or nay to politics ???
Don't change too much though guys,this place is A ok :y :y
Agreed and at the end of the day admins decisions are final ;)
Indeed they are, but I still hold with everything I have said. The ball though is now definitely in their court :D :D :D :y :y :y
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I started his thread based around politics as that subject, to me in any event, had become tedious. I deliberately did not moderate anything on previous politics threads to the best of my recollection, unless they stepped out the bounds of common decency and forum guidelines.
I deliberately kept the thread tight to politics initially so as to concentrate core posters to the thread. As anticipated, thread drift has taken place and perhaps its time to amplify on some of the points raised earlier in the thread.
Admin have no agenda other than as set out in the guidelines whereby OOF is for the benefit of owners of the omega marque and to maintaining it as economically as possible.
What has become apparent as the forum has evolved is something that has been discussed many times previously - used to be a right laugh on here, sides sore at the keyboard, partner wondering what the fek I'm laughing at etc etc.
Perhaps now the omega is fast becoming drift or banger material then the 'enthusiast' of past is becoming a rare beast. With that comes differing folks and their attitudes which when infused into a forum bred from a diffent mindset comes areas where confuddlement and misunderstanding abound.
Perhaps the admin team is too much old skool and not able or willing to accept change?
Perhaps the membership base has changed substantially that OOF is a shadow of its former self? Perhaps that's a good thing? Should the longer established members chastise or reeducate the up and coming youngsters. Or vice versa?
I still maintain that gendiss at present reads as very much a closed shop to newbies. It is an extremely difficult area for someone to become 'accepted'. One way I see for this to be addressed is if the core of posters in gendiss could spread their talents into ther sections and not just a 5 word welcome in newbies.
Show that we ARE a community and not just a postage/moan box forum with car bits hanging off it.
And as for not reading something that does not interest you, well, some of the admin team do try to read all posts (you reading this TB :-)) so some of the boring, repetitive, daily mail type reposts DO become a reason to reach for a sharp knife as far as keeping some sanity alive on the forum is concerned.
So now to walk the hound and see what happens next.
:)
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Yes, since TB voiced his opinion. Funny that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
Pml ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
From what I have seen of your posts, you are quite nasty, quite amazed that you are not banned from the forum....... :( ;)
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
From what I have seen of your posts, you are quite nasty, quite amazed that you are not banned from the forum....... :( ;)
Its called HUMOUR :y :y :y
Try it sometimes, its quite enlightening ;)
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
From what I have seen of your posts, you are quite nasty, quite amazed that you are not banned from the forum....... :( ;)
Its called HUMOUR :y :y :y
Try it sometimes, its quite enlightening ;)
+1 Stemo's not nasty,just old :D :D
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
From what I have seen of your posts, you are quite nasty, quite amazed that you are not banned from the forum....... :( ;)
Its called HUMOUR :y :y :y
Try it sometimes, its quite enlightening ;)
+1 Stemo's not nasty,just old :D :D
And he shits the bed (allegedly) :-X :-X :-X :-X :D
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
From what I have seen of your posts, you are quite nasty, quite amazed that you are not banned from the forum....... :( ;)
Its called HUMOUR :y :y :y
Try it sometimes, its quite enlightening ;)
+1 :y
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Interesting how the vote percentages continue to change..... :-X
Does it actually make any difference?
I vote to ban all other sections and just keep general depression.
From what I have seen of your posts, you are quite nasty, quite amazed that you are not banned from the forum....... :( ;)
Its called HUMOUR :y :y :y
Try it sometimes, its quite enlightening ;)
+1 :y
+2
Yes STEMO - Steve - is so easily misunderstood - now what's that song again? oh yes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUmSijiWxA - but is one of the funniest guy on here who has lifted my depression many a time ;D ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y :y
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Confucius say..."Borrocks" ;D
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You cant beat a bit of contagious bitching ;D
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I seem to remember that Van Helsing is not all he seems ::) ::) ;) - (in disguise?)
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I seem to remember that Van Helsing is not all he seems ::) ::) ;) - (in disguise?)
Yes. He pops up to annoy people when things are quiet.
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To bring this back to the top, whilst I still have my wee huffy puss on ( >:( ) yes, a poll may or may not have any lasting effect in the future actions of the admin team but it certaily gives a testing of the water as regards what the forum membership at large want from OOF.
Initially it was an overwhelming, almost 3 to 1 advantage, for those wanting to continue political discussion. I note that it was generally the more vocal of the membership that were prompt to vote and respond on the thread.
This has now dropped to nigh on 50/50 possibly due to the silent ones eventually casting a vote.
To requote myself from earlier in this thread-
What has become apparent as the forum has evolved is something that has been discussed many times previously - used to be a right laugh on here, sides sore at the keyboard, partner wondering what the fek I'm laughing at etc etc.
Perhaps now the omega is fast becoming drift or banger material then the 'enthusiast' of past is becoming a rare beast. With that comes differing folks and their attitudes which when infused into a forum bred from a diffent mindset comes areas where confuddlement and misunderstanding abound.
Perhaps the admin team is too much old skool and not able or willing to accept change?
Perhaps the membership base has changed substantially that OOF is a shadow of its former self? Perhaps that's a good thing? Should the longer established members chastise or reeducate the up and coming youngsters. Or vice versa?
I still maintain that gendiss at present reads as very much a closed shop to newbies. It is an extremely difficult area for someone to become 'accepted'. One way I see for this to be addressed is if the core of posters in gendiss could spread their talents into ther sections and not just a 5 word welcome in newbies.
Comments??
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To bring this back to the top, whilst I still have my wee huffy puss on ( >:( ) yes, a poll may or may not have any lasting effect in the future actions of the admin team but it certaily gives a testing of the water as regards what the forum membership at large want from OOF.
Initially it was an overwhelming, almost 3 to 1 advantage, for those wanting to continue political discussion. I note that it was generally the more vocal of the membership that were prompt to vote and respond on the thread.
This has now dropped to nigh on 50/50 possibly due to the silent ones eventually casting a vote.
To requote myself from earlier in this thread-
What has become apparent as the forum has evolved is something that has been discussed many times previously - used to be a right laugh on here, sides sore at the keyboard, partner wondering what the fek I'm laughing at etc etc.
Perhaps now the omega is fast becoming drift or banger material then the 'enthusiast' of past is becoming a rare beast. With that comes differing folks and their attitudes which when infused into a forum bred from a diffent mindset comes areas where confuddlement and misunderstanding abound.
Perhaps the admin team is too much old skool and not able or willing to accept change?
Perhaps the membership base has changed substantially that OOF is a shadow of its former self? Perhaps that's a good thing? Should the longer established members chastise or reeducate the up and coming youngsters. Or vice versa?
I still maintain that gendiss at present reads as very much a closed shop to newbies. It is an extremely difficult area for someone to become 'accepted'. One way I see for this to be addressed is if the core of posters in gendiss could spread their talents into ther sections and not just a 5 word welcome in newbies.
Comments??
Hasn't enough been said already? ??? ???
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Not as regards my requote, I feel.
:)
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I can't spread my talents. I don't have any. :(
Still, I'll try not to beat myself up too much.
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I can't spread my talents. I don't have any. :(
Still, I'll try not to beat myself up too much.
you had already .. as much as others can take :y
by the way forbidding those political threads will have same effect cutting salt and pepper from meals.. :-\
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Yes, I agree, Cem. As far as I can see, this can only go two ways. There is no chance of changing the way people behave in gendiss. I've said as much before.
So...we either carry on regardless or we get rid of this section and omega owners forum becomes a car forum. I don't think there would be much input from people who actually owned one, because most of those people are pretty clued up and there aren't that many to be bought (by newbies), but an area like gen car chat would probably keep it ticking over nicely.
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
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Yes, I agree, Cem. As far as I can see, this can only go two ways. There is no chance of changing the way people behave in gendiss. I've said as much before.
So...we either carry on regardless or we get rid of this section and omega owners forum becomes a car forum. I don't think there would be much input from people who actually owned one, because most of those people are pretty clued up and there aren't that many to be bought (by newbies), but an area like gen car chat would probably keep it ticking over nicely.
Thoroughly agree! :y :y :y
I believe that the ball is now in the Admins court and what they want will rule as it must be. Hence my (arrogant??) belief that no more can be said that will constructively assist the debate. It is just a case of waiting for the Admins to vote. :D :D ;)
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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And, if I were a mod, the question I would be asking myself is: With Spring upon us and the weather about to turn, my mood should be one of contentment. Do I really want to spend my evenings breaking up arguments between people I don't even know?
Well punks...do ya? ;D
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Comments??
Nobody wants to wannabe admin on this one then?
If the centre of this problem happens to coincidentally be the same person who had TB searching through reams of data looking for evidence of alleged abuse,that did not exist,then that person should be removed.They should be removed immediately,and publicly,according to guidelines of a abusing another member/members.That being both the admin and the member accused of sending abusive pm's in the first place.
I find it difficult to understand why that has not already happened.There is an underlying poisonous element here that needs cutting out. :-X Both for the greater good of the forum,and the credibility of the admin team.
This has gone on way too long.Admin need to make life easier for themselves 1st off.The rest will follow.
TB's posts on this thread seem to have been completely ignored by everyone. ???
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Comments??
Nobody wants to wannabe admin on this one then?
If the centre of this problem happens to coincidentally be the same person who had TB searching through reams of data looking for evidence of alleged buse,that did not exist,then that person should be removed.They should be removed immediately,and publicly,according to guidelines of a abusing another member/members.That being both the admin and the member accused of sending abusive pm's in the first place.
I find it difficult to understand why that has not already happened.There is an underlying poisonous element here that needs cutting out. :-X Both for the greater good of the forum,and the credibility of the admin team
This has gone on way too long.Admin need to make life easier for themselves 1st off.The rest will follow.
TB's posts on this thread seem to have been completely ignored by everyone. ???
Who's TB? ;D
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And, more to the point, who are you, Munchie Boy?
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I seem to remember that Van Helsing is not all he seems ::) ::) ;) - (in disguise?)
hence the number of NOs increase rapidly ;D
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And, more to the point, who are you, Munchie Boy?
I was thinking the same!
A member with 2 posts who knows so much. "No's" increasing as well. I smell a conspiracy!! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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And, more to the point, who are you, Munchie Boy?
I was thinking the same!
A member with 2 posts who knows so much. "No's" increasing as well. I smell a conspiracy!! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
you didnt believe me before ;D
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I seem to remember that Van Helsing is not all he seems ::) ::) ;) - (in disguise?)
hence the number of NOs increase rapidly ;D
Not at all, I have not voted, any suggestion that I have would simply be a conspiracy..... :-X Admins feel free to check...... :y
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Whatever you say, Van Munchkin. ;D
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Whatever you say, Van Munchkin. ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
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And, more to the point, who are you, Munchie Boy?
Its not hard to establish, either by checking forum profile or thinking about what Munchs' last post concerned.
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And, more to the point, who are you, Munchie Boy?
I think its obvious from the demands >:(
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And, more to the point, who are you, Munchie Boy?
Its not hard to establish, either by checking forum profile or thinking about what Munchs' last post concerned.
Don't they have irony and rhetoric up there, Jock? ;D
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Thoroughly agree! :y :y :y
I believe that the ball is now in the Admins court and what they want will rule as it must be. Hence my (arrogant??) belief that no more can be said that will constructively assist the debate. It is just a case of waiting for the Admins to vote. :D :D ;)
Other than yourself, who said there was an admin vote? On anything?
Again, assumption can easily gather steam and momentum and cause untold problems within OOF. as previously?
My personal take is that the admin team need to reign in gendiss somewhat and bring it back from the precipice that is a no holds barred 'shed' or cesspit.
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
?
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Thoroughly agree! :y :y :y
I believe that the ball is now in the Admins court and what they want will rule as it must be. Hence my (arrogant??) belief that no more can be said that will constructively assist the debate. It is just a case of waiting for the Admins to vote. :D :D ;)
Other than yourself, who said there was an admin vote? On anything?
Again, assumption can easily gather steam and momentum and cause untold problems within OOF. as previously?
My personal take is that the admin team need to reign in gendiss somewhat and bring it back from the precipice that is a no holds barred 'shed' or cesspit.
You know what I mean ht21. By "vote" I mean at some stage you, TB, and the others will decide what form you want the Forum to take, and/or what changes you will make. Is that not fact? ??? ??? ??? ???
If not, what is this all about? ??? ??? ???
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
?
I made it clear at the time as TB knows, and I am not going to drag it all up again on the Forum as I know I will be accused of over sensitivity. :y :y
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You know what I mean ht21. By "vote" I mean at some stage you, TB, and the others will decide what form you want the Forum to take, and/or what changes you will make. Is that not fact? ??? ??? ??? ???
If not, what is this all about? ??? ??? ???
And you know what I mean LZ. Discussion on assorted topics takes place within modchat, certainly, but it is not exactly full of current threads, by no stretch of the imagination.
This thread is for members discussion, with mod input (where they want to) and currently, nothing more. :)
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
?
I made it clear at the time as TB knows, and I am not going to drag it all up again on the Forum as I know I will be accused of over sensitivity. :y :y
But it is enough to raise the point and leave a hook dangling for those not conversant?
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Reading between the lines here, there's something that's been festering for a good while now. As I have never felt the need to contact an admin, I am at a loss as to what it is. But it needs sorting, now.
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
?
I made it clear at the time as TB knows, and I am not going to drag it all up again on the Forum as I know I will be accused of over sensitivity. :y :y
But it is enough to raise the point and leave a hook dangling for those not conversant?
All I have said in answer to the previous poster is "I know why" and that is all that I need to say. ;)
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Reading between the lines here, there's something that's been festering for a good while now. As I have never felt the need to contact an admin, I am at a loss as to what it is. But it needs sorting, now.
I think admins gave the message and already decided.. :-\
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
?
I made it clear at the time as TB knows, and I am not going to drag it all up again on the Forum as I know I will be accused of over sensitivity. :y :y
But it is enough to raise the point and leave a hook dangling for those not conversant?
All I have said in answer to the previous poster is "I know why" and that is all that I need to say. ;)
Fair enough. Comments like your initial 'I know why etc', however, are easily read as devisive and do the forum no favours. :) :-X
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You know what I mean ht21. By "vote" I mean at some stage you, TB, and the others will decide what form you want the Forum to take, and/or what changes you will make. Is that not fact? ??? ??? ??? ???
If not, what is this all about? ??? ??? ???
And you know what I mean LZ. Discussion on assorted topics takes place within modchat, certainly, but it is not exactly full of current threads, by no stretch of the imagination.
This thread is for members discussion, with mod input (where they want to) and currently, nothing more. :)
So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
God, this thread itself is getting too serious for even me now! Instead of having a laugh we are all I am getting very self conscious of what I say and guilty for saying it! My head hurts, and I am going to lay down in a darkened room! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
?
I made it clear at the time as TB knows, and I am not going to drag it all up again on the Forum as I know I will be accused of over sensitivity. :y :y
But it is enough to raise the point and leave a hook dangling for those not conversant?
All I have said in answer to the previous poster is "I know why" and that is all that I need to say. ;)
Fair enough. Comments like your initial 'I know why etc', however, are easily read as devisive and do the forum no favours. :) :-X
But it has already been stated how the attendance levels are down on happier past times, so what have I added that is so "devisive" (sic) ? ::) ::) ::)
As said I am going for a lay down now!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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You know what I mean ht21. By "vote" I mean at some stage you, TB, and the others will decide what form you want the Forum to take, and/or what changes you will make. Is that not fact? ??? ??? ??? ???
If not, what is this all about? ??? ??? ???
And you know what I mean LZ. Discussion on assorted topics takes place within modchat, certainly, but it is not exactly full of current threads, by no stretch of the imagination.
This thread is for members discussion, with mod input (where they want to) and currently, nothing more. :)
So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
God, this thread itself is getting too serious for even me now! Instead of having a laugh we are all I am getting very self conscious of what I say and guilty for saying it! My head hurts, and I am going to lay down in a darkened room! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Lizzie.. no point digging more imo :y :y :y :y
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So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
..........
As I said further back the thread, it was initially for politics yes/no and I steered it to keep that path however thread drift, that common thing on OOF, took place hence the 'stuff' became to the forefront(ish).
Unlike some, i know my limitations and politician is not on my radar. What you see (for real or online) is what you get.... :)
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You know what I mean ht21. By "vote" I mean at some stage you, TB, and the others will decide what form you want the Forum to take, and/or what changes you will make. Is that not fact? ??? ??? ??? ???
If not, what is this all about? ??? ??? ???
And you know what I mean LZ. Discussion on assorted topics takes place within modchat, certainly, but it is not exactly full of current threads, by no stretch of the imagination.
This thread is for members discussion, with mod input (where they want to) and currently, nothing more. :)
So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
God, this thread itself is getting too serious for even me now! Instead of having a laugh we are all I am getting very self conscious of what I say and guilty for saying it! My head hurts, and I am going to lay down in a darkened room! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Lizzie.. no point digging more imo :y :y :y :y
You are right Cem! :y :y :y :y
I'm off to bed! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
..........
As I said further back the thread, it was initially for politics yes/no and I steered it to keep that path however thread drift, that common thing on OOF, took place hence the 'stuff' became to the forefront(ish).
Unlike some, i know my limitations and politician is not on my radar. What you see (for real or online) is what you get.... :)
Now that I accept and heartily endorse as I have always respected you for that approach in the past ht21 :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
I'm still off to bed though as my poor mind is almost gone!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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You know what I mean ht21. By "vote" I mean at some stage you, TB, and the others will decide what form you want the Forum to take, and/or what changes you will make. Is that not fact? ??? ??? ??? ???
If not, what is this all about? ??? ??? ???
And you know what I mean LZ. Discussion on assorted topics takes place within modchat, certainly, but it is not exactly full of current threads, by no stretch of the imagination.
This thread is for members discussion, with mod input (where they want to) and currently, nothing more. :)
So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
God, this thread itself is getting too serious for even me now! Instead of having a laugh we are all I am getting very self conscious of what I say and guilty for saying it! My head hurts, and I am going to lay down in a darkened room! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Lizzie.. no point digging more imo :y :y :y :y
You are right Cem! :y :y :y :y
I'm off to bed! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
I do think every new day is a fresh start :) :y :y :y :y
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now question is when will this poll end ? ::)
I think can help :D ;D
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So this is a political thread to ascertain how members feel about political discussions and "stuff" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would not make a good politician ht21 :D :D :D ;) ;)
..........
As I said further back the thread, it was initially for politics yes/no and I steered it to keep that path however thread drift, that common thing on OOF, took place hence the 'stuff' became to the forefront(ish).
Unlike some, i know my limitations and politician is not on my radar. What you see (for real or online) is what you get.... :)
And so it should be, Broocie. I, for one, cannot be arsed with silly games going on in the background. As for Jaimie's comments about 'agendas', then anyone who has/needs one in a place like this is sadly lacking in real life.
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Sweet Jesus! are you lot reading the shit you are typing?
I have been here from the very beginning, and those that were here at the same time will remember the saga of my car, and the help received from members of this forum - way beyond anything that could be believed frankly! THAT was the original spirit of this place!
Having not had an omega for years now, I only stay on the forum (mainly just reading) for the off chance I may be able to offer some help in return.
I have to say, over the last few months, I have hovered over the delete account button on a number of occaisions.
My view - politics is not the issue, it is the same people saying the same things over and over and over and over again - the only thing that ever changes is the venomous way other peoples views are put down.
If I were admin - in all honesty I would hit the delete button on the gen dis section of the site.
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Am I the only member on here that hasn't got a clue what this topic is about anymore :-\ :-\
Just for the record, NOBODY is bigger then this forum so lets stop all the cryptic shite.
If someone's got a problem with someone else, sort it out once and for all eh or leave >:(
Thanks :(
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Am I the only member on here that hasn't got a clue what this topic is about anymore :-\ :-\
Just for the record, NOBODY is bigger then this forum so lets stop all the cryptic shite.
If someone's got a problem with someone else, sort it out once and for all eh or leave >:(
Thanks :(
yeah.. someone has got a problem with another (and some others).. has left the forum some time ago and now coming back with another name , still accusing others and demanding the admins to throw other members.. >:( >:( >:( >:(
disgusting..
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I too am at a complete loss as to what all this is about? Obviously there are some who are privvy to information other members have no knowledge of, or assumptions have been made, passed on until becoming 'fact'?? In my opinion this should have been locked long ago. Unless of course, there is an agenda in the background that members who simply take the forum for what it is, have no idea of.... :-\
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I too am at a complete loss as to what all this is about? Obviously there are some who are privvy to information other members have no knowledge of, or assumptions have been made, passed on until becoming 'fact'?? In my opinion this should have been locked long ago. Unless of course, there is an agenda in the background that members who simply take the forum for what it is, have no idea of.... :-\
That just about sums it up my thoughts too :(
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Am I the only member on here that hasn't got a clue what this topic is about anymore :-\ :-\
Just for the record, NOBODY is bigger then this forum so lets stop all the cryptic shite.
If someone's got a problem with someone else, sort it out once and for all eh or leave >:(
Thanks :(
yeah.. someone has got a problem with another (and some others).. has left the forum some time ago and now coming back with another name , still accusing others and demanding the admins to throw other members.. >:( >:( >:( >:(
disgusting..
A bit cryptic Cem. Care to elaborate ??? :-\
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Am I the only member on here that hasn't got a clue what this topic is about anymore :-\ :-\
Just for the record, NOBODY is bigger then this forum so lets stop all the cryptic shite.
If someone's got a problem with someone else, sort it out once and for all eh or leave >:(
Thanks :(
yeah.. someone has got a problem with another (and some others).. has left the forum some time ago and now coming back with another name , still accusing others and demanding the admins to throw other members.. >:( >:( >:( >:(
disgusting..
A bit cryptic Cem. Care to elaborate ??? :-\
Robg, the person who demand these things will understand.. and obviously some old members and admins..
I think thats enough for now.. >:(
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
I think he thinks Van Helsing is someone who he is not...... :D :D
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
I think he thinks Van Helsing is someone who he is not...... :D :D
If CG wants to now be part of the forum why chuck the teddy bear out initially ??? ???
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
I think he thinks Van Helsing is someone who he is not...... :D :D
If CG wants to now be part of the forum why chuck the teddy bear out initially ??? ???
yeah.. very bad way to start.. and sign for future to what will happen :(
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
I think he thinks Van Helsing is someone who he is not...... :D :D
If CG wants to now be part of the forum why chuck the teddy bear out initially ??? ???
Blimey what are some of you one? the conspiracy concerns are out of hand..... :o :( CG is NOT Van Helsing............
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
I think he thinks Van Helsing is someone who he is not...... :D :D
If CG wants to now be part of the forum why chuck the teddy bear out initially ??? ???
Blimey what are some of you one? the conspiracy concerns are out of hand..... :o :( CG is NOT Van Helsing............
Vamps , read previous posts carefully.. :y
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Will someone email me when the toys have been picked up & put back in the pram ......... :-\ :-\ :-\
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the person
Wouldn`t begin with an "M" and end in an "H" perchance Cem ::) ::)
I think he thinks Van Helsing is someone who he is not...... :D :D
If CG wants to now be part of the forum why chuck the teddy bear out initially ??? ???
Blimey what are some of you one? the conspiracy concerns are out of hand..... :o :( CG is NOT Van Helsing............
Vamps , read previous posts carefully.. :y
I read STEMO's Van Munchie post, tbh, can't be bothered, if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem - read my words carefully.......... :-X
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Will someone email me when the toys have been picked up & put back in the pram ......... :-\ :-\ :-\
+1,must be something in the water here :-X
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If Munch actually resides in Leyland, in Lancashire, then me thinks it is more likely a recent poster wishing to have a say without prejudice rather than former members :y
And as for that Van Helsing fellow, not necessarily a 'he' at all ::)
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This thread has caused more problems than all the politics threads put together, IMHO. >:(
It should never have been started in my view. Indeed, I admit that I PM'd another member when it was started and stated my view that OOF had pressed the self-destruct button.
Sadly, I think that may be the case.
>:( :( :( :( :(
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This thread has caused more problems than all the politics threads put together, IMHO. >:(
It should never have been started in my view. Indeed, I admit that I PM'd another member when it was started and stated my view that OOF had pressed the self-destruct button.
Sadly, I think that may be the case.
>:( :( :( :( :(
That's precisely why it was started and steered in the direction it has ultimately taken! :-X
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This thread is beginning to read like Salems Lot. So who is going to be accused of witchcraft next? >:( >:( >:( >:(
Just don't mention, that he is a wizard at repairing Omegas or a dunking stool, a pile of logs and a stake will appear faster than you can say "he's a druid". >:( >:( >:( >:(
PS: A nameless OOFer told me they had a lovely stew tonight and PM'd me with the recipe, so I thought I would share the ingredients with you: "8 eyes of newt, 3 tails of frog... but he told me the potent bit is that it has to be stirred by somebody nameless who posts on this very forum with a real life name of Bazablebub and everybody would be too shocked for she / him / them to possibly reveal their OOF name". ::) :P ;) :o
As this forum is primarily a car repair forum, with an all things goes general general discussion area bolted on, I'm having problems with the head on my broomstick err Omega, any suggestions on what is wrong. ::) :o :o :o
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This thread has caused more problems than all the politics threads put together, IMHO. >:(
It should never have been started in my view. Indeed, I admit that I PM'd another member when it was started and stated my view that OOF had pressed the self-destruct button.
Sadly, I think that may be the case.
>:( :( :( :( :(
all agreed Nick :y
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.
:-\
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.
:-\
Fully agree Kevin :y sure you can have a bit of banter with people over tinterweb, but you can't beat actually meeting up with those people and putting names to faces :y
Looking forward to the Wycombe meet and the anticipated curry afterwards...
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I have been
happly busily reading this thread and initially thought WHY? when it first started but now I am going to add my 10 bob's worth
Now that the postal votes ::) have been counted the poll is still at 50/50 (ish) and that is still not a mandate to ban them so ,sorry, "end of"
There seems to be some opinion that there is some form of hidden agenda with this thread. No one will ever find there is one as that would be tantamount to admitting there is and (probably) have been others. If I am honest whatever the reason for all this just please get on with it.
In the time I have been on here there have been a number of these "searching" threads started and as other's have mentioned it is the usual suspects that have risen to the bait whilst the other usual suspects have rightly tried to make it a little "lighter".
This particular thread, which was down to it's dying ember's a couple of days ago and has since been re-stoked, is now imo regrettably the cause of some friendly and amusing members hitting the now famous "delete" button. Although even after which their ghosts are still at it.
Ah well spent my 50p now. To end on a positive, I like enjoy coming on here, including the political/tyre/youtube/joke/happy/tragic/informative/argybargy contribution's. I appreciate the help this forum has given me, directly and indirectly. If parts of it radically change then it will inevitably reduce my enjoyment and force me back onto facebook and twitter (ohhhhh noooooo)
Phil
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Phill, your closing sentence gives two fantastic reasons to stay put :y the mere thought of facebook and twitter is horrific at best :o
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Phill, your closing sentence gives two fantastic reasons to stay put :y the mere thought of facebook and twitter is horrific at best :o
Know what you mean. ;D Don't need reason to stay but if they become more enjoyable, nudge nudge wink wink ;)
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ssssssssssh wifeys asleep and ive sneaked back on
what the hell you lot been up to theres rattles, dummies and toys everywhere. Blimey cant leave you kids alone for 5 mins, get thsi mess cleaned up ;)
conspiricies, having a pop at admin stmo going AWOL at this rate playtime will be cancelled.
I found the solution why i have been away Alcohol and another thing its about time we had a spell checker
from what i have just read from Tb and H21 think its really a heads up that admin are sadened by the general attitude of some members, its not for anyone to say who just take a step back now and again look at how you reply or what you write and judge yourself and like hey man chill a bit. We can all do with being a little bit more relaxed after all is that not why we come on here, I know i do, did, will
After all lets not forget this is soposed to be a car forum not face book etc although general discussion can go anywhere even dish washers, magic trees , the odd wasp sting on the bum and of course abba ( see you in another week or so)
We all have egos but no one is bigger than the forum and we are guests here and lets face it we got a complete loop holding the plug.
So group hug deep breath, lets all be a little more tolerant after all as soon as someone wants help its there in a flash thats never changed.
Stmo will be back once bail has been posted ;)
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It's very sad but I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Phil and Paul's posts above, and this post will probably upset quite a few, but having deliberately not said anything for 5 days, but having followed the discussions with sadness, my take on things as they stand is
The last half dozen or so pages of this thread exemplify the problems that appear to beset OOF at the moment.
What started as an honest question by Broocie regarding political threads has been hijacked by the same 1/2 dozen or so who seem unable to let someone else post without instantly answering in order to repeat ad nauseum the comments already made in order to repetitively restate their position, as they must be right.
The thread has gone from a "request for opinion" to a "conspiracy theory" about OOF closing down, who members are, and what their "agends" are.
As I see it it is almost as if certain members actually WANT either OOF, or GenDis, to be shut down simply so they can shout "I TOLD YOU SO" and appear to have been right.......
This is fast becoming almost a self-fulfilling prophecy...... :(
May I suggest the following reading to all those who appear to be utterly fed up with the constant bickering, crude talk, scatological references, and the almost homophobic nature of some posts ??
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=114077.0
THAT was good old fashioned OOF banter at its best ... humorous, light hearted and clean - all the time it was in the "sales" section ..... until right near the end when it was moved to GenDis and just went downhill. ....... says something IMHO.
May I also refer the "silent ones" who are not saying much, probably for fear of being shot down, to a famous quote attributed to Edmund Burke ....... which may be a little extreme here, but gives the idea ?? The forum is a product of every single member who has the ability and desire to post, not just a few who monopolise some threads.
May I respectfully request those few to actually sit back, read what EVERYONE has said, dwell on the implications of the disparate views given, and not post instantly ?? A few days consideration of others, and their points of view, may well actually help solve the conundrum the Admin team are struggling with.....
:(
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This thread has caused more problems than all the politics threads put together, IMHO. >:(
It should never have been started in my view. Indeed, I admit that I PM'd another member when it was started and stated my view that OOF had pressed the self-destruct button.
Sadly, I think that may be the case.
>:( :( :( :( :(
You are sooooo right in what you state Nick. :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
You and I may have clashed due to our passion over certain issues, but this thread beats them all!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
I have woken up fresh this morning and wondered what the hell this is all about. Secret agenda's; one member trying to force other out, etc, etc. FFS!!!!!!!!! I am now just dazed and confused by it all as all I want to do is keep my Omega going aided by the help I can gather here, along with having an interesting chat about other life subjects. But now it has just gone stupid!! >:( >:(
You are right Nick, and I almost said it last night in my posts to ht21 but thought better of it in this climate of fear in saying your honest opinions now; this post would have been locked by TB at least if it had not been started by an Admin. Yes they run the site, but why let such a contentious and disrupted thread run and run drawing out further requirements for us to comment (like I feel compelled to do again now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)) when it is doing the OOF no good at all. TB was right in stating that newbies could well be put off big time with the posts running in GenChat, but then we have this highly destructive thread running!! For what purpose? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
For Christ's sake, whoever is in charge, let's get this done and dusted. Ban whoever you feel should not be here, including me if you feel so inclined, lay down new rules (not just "guide lines"), or let us all just carry on before. Whatever, I am almost past caring.
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.
:-\
I'm afraid Kevin I must not comment further on this. ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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What started as an honest question by Broocie regarding political threads has been hijacked by the same 1/2 dozen or so who seem unable to let someone else post without instantly answering in order to repeat ad nauseum the comments already made in order to repetitively restate their position, as they must be right.
The thread has gone from a "request for opinion" to a "conspiracy theory" about OOF closing down, who members are, and what their "agends" are.
yeah .. everything is conspiracy theory.. but seems like you are ignoring someone elses demands from admins to throw/delete other members.. :( and you very well know this persons position..
and besides there are newbies knowing the forum state very well and the stopped votes increasing rapidly.. ;D
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and probably I'm guilty for starting this thread , coming here with another identity and accusing others and voting multiple times.. >:(
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Given the course this thread is on, I would like to change my vote to "No".
The true spirit of OOF can be found in the unconditional help and advice offered in the mechanical sections and also in abundance at the Meets IMHO.
I assume Lizzie is referring to Guffers Cambelt meet a couple of years ago, which I can safely say was one of the best weekends of the year, with lots of work being done, and also alot of socialising as well :y
Perhaps it is time to put General Discussion, (and this thread with it), to bed :-X
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.
:-\
I'm afraid Kevin I must not comment further on this. ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
OK, then let's leave it at that, and not allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other. I am sure the regular attendees will vouch for this.
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And there would still be meets, of course, but, from what I can gather, they are becoming sparsely attended.
After attending one way back, I think I know why :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
It's odd that you say that, because meeting up with members of this forum in real life has to be the best part of it, for me. Whether it be people popping round for a Tech 2 session and a cuppa, a few of us locals heading out for a curry every so often, the larger cam belt meets or the camping trips, I've made some great friends, had a good laugh and can't recall a single word said in anger.
:-\
I'm afraid Kevin I must not comment further on this. ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
OK, then let's leave it at that, and not allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other. I am sure the regular attendees will vouch for this.
........and that is the problem at the moment. You express an opinion, my personal experience which was very real for me at the time that in the past was agreed by other members, only to be criticised for doing so. Kevin you should know me better by now and all I can say is your quote of "allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other." does not reflect what I am doing, nor I am afraid my personal experience. I speak as I find. I can do no more, and are purely responding to the point made by TB that "The national meets (Lakes and Newent) were packed (as were York and EA), the day meets busy." in the context of his opinion of where the OOF is going wrong.
I was purely responding and suggesting that I know why from MY experience, not assumed, not made up and certainly not with malicious intent.
But of course, as I have said in context of historical events, all empires eventually turn in on themselves and rip themselves apart, imploding under accusation and counter-accusation by the parties contained within. The OOF is at that point with all this that is transpiring now, and I am almost in tears over it. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Perhaps it is time to call it a day for me yet again. The pain is now not worth the gain. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back. :y
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Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back. :y
Thanks for that Mv8.com, and that is the problem, I discuss and study politics as I do history, but I am no politcrat (to quote you) as I am not that devious a character ;D ;D ;D :y :y
I just want fun and interesting things to do like being involved in engineering and transport, like miggies. ;) ;)
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Personally I think the forum has past it's sell by date. It's still a brilliant place for info but the forum as it used to be has changed and I don't think it can be reversed. There are a lot of people on OOF that are so arguementative and think that their way is the only way and don't know when to stop, i'm a bit like that sometimes myself :'(
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Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back. :y
Thanks for that Mv8.com, and that is the problem, I discuss and study politics as I do history, but I am no politcrat (to quote you) as I am not that devious a character ;D ;D ;D :y :y
I just want fun and interesting things to do like being involved in engineering and transport, like miggies. ;) ;)
yep, that's what we all want I think, ESP admin. Lately though, those types of threads have been destroyed by this topic of polotics. Hence the intentions of H21, if I understand it correctly.
Ime it stems from gendis and the poloticrats within. Then it spread to technical issues with the negative missery it inspires. Frustration brews and the lack of progress and it becomes a waiste of time, nobody learns anything and animosity rules.
The subject of polotics itself may or may not be an issue, but undoubtady those that embrace it so aggressively, are! And are arsing the the hole deal up for everyone else.
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Lizzie I don't think anyone has your good self down as a politcrat. Maybe yours is a subject for another time. All water under the bridge now and it's a pleasure to have you back. :y
Thanks for that Mv8.com, and that is the problem, I discuss and study politics as I do history, but I am no politcrat (to quote you) as I am not that devious a character ;D ;D ;D :y :y
I just want fun and interesting things to do like being involved in engineering and transport, like miggies. ;) ;)
yep, that's what we all want I think, ESP admin. Lately though, those types of threads have been destroyed by this topic of polotics. Hence the intentions of H21, if I understand it correctly.
Ime it stems from gendis and the poloticrats within. Then it spread to technical issues with the negative missery it inspires. Frustration brews and the lack of progress and it becomes a waiste of time, nobody learns anything and animosity rules.
The subject of polotics itself may or may not be an issue, but undoubtady those that embrace it so aggressively, are! And are arsing the the hole deal up for everyone else.
Reading that word made me think of new word, or maybe I have read it somewhere and it just came back to me. Any way substitue your word Polotics for Bolocktics and we could even have Bolockticians. As that is what most of them speak anyway.
So, did I make it up or have I stolen the idea ;D knowing my luck it was made up years ago and I just dragging it out of the old grey matter ;D ;D
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........and that is the problem at the moment. You express an opinion, my personal experience which was very real for me at the time that in the past was agreed by other members, only to be criticised for doing so. Kevin you should know me better by now and all I can say is your quote of "allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other." does not reflect what I am doing, nor I am afraid my personal experience. I speak as I find. I can do no more, and are purely responding to the point made by TB that "The national meets (Lakes and Newent) were packed (as were York and EA), the day meets busy." in the context of his opinion of where the OOF is going wrong.
I was purely responding and suggesting that I know why from MY experience, not assumed, not made up and certainly not with malicious intent.
But of course, as I have said in context of historical events, all empires eventually turn in on themselves and rip themselves apart, imploding under accusation and counter-accusation by the parties contained within. The OOF is at that point with all this that is transpiring now, and I am almost in tears over it. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Perhaps it is time to call it a day for me yet again. The pain is now not worth the gain. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
.. and that particular part of my comment was not aimed at your post as much as at STMO's, to be honest, and I apologise that you clearly read it differently to how I intended.
In my view, though, you haven't spoken as you found, in my eyes. STMO (who has, as far as I recall, never attended a meet) starts mumbling that attendance its going down and you reinforce it by implying that there's some sort of obvious reason for it. Fodder for the rumour mill that TheBoy eluded to in his post IMHO.
I'm simply arguing that that isn't my experience of any of the Omega meets. I believe I was at the meet in question and, whilst a lot of us had a very busy day, it was a great example of the spirit of OOF in action. So much so, that we went and drank the bar dry that night and were back sorting out the couple of member's cars that were still in bits the next day! I'm sure many of us got in trouble with our other halves for spending an entire weekend fettling with Omegas but such was the camaraderie, IMHO.
I don't believe there is some malaise that is keeping people away from meets, and I expect to be proved right at Terbert's meet on May bank holiday. It would be great to see you there, actually, Lizzie, because I'm sure your first impression was not an accurate one. :-\
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I personaly couldn't give a toss either way
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I personaly couldn't give a toss either way
That's about what the voting suggests too... ;)
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Personally, I think politics is being made a scapegoat for all that is wrong with OOF.
I'm a political animal and like to express my opinion and do so by creating and commenting on political threads. After Nickbat and Albs, I'm probably third for the number of these threads that have been created in recent times on politics and economics. How many arguments have I had? NONE.
Why? For two reasons, arguments never achieve anything all they do in intrench each respective position, they bring as a public forum OOF into disrepute and it remains a discussion if you don't get personal and each time you comment you add something constructive to support what you are saying then it generally stays at the discussion level.
I don't expect everybody to agree with me, in fact the treads would be boring if they did, I quite happy to remain friends and agree to disagree at times. Once or twice people have been a nasty, but it is only very occasionally and I personally prefer to walk away than to wash dirty linen in public.
Very often when somebody has a pop it is due to other reasons, they have other non-OOF underlying problems and OOF has been used to as an outlet for this. Unfortunate, but we all after a bad day tend to shout at the wife and dog or dog and wife. It is human nature to take things out on those things closest to us. So maybe part of the problem is that some people are spending too much time on OOF.
Now I think it is fair to say that me and cem are never going to agree politically, but we had a big long thread on state control of production v capitalism. Both of us were making long comments on our respective positions, we never argued and respected each others opinions. Several people commented that they had enjoyed reading the long dialogs. Once we had reached the end of our points of view, me and cem agreed to disagree and left the thread as friends. This is how it should be. I've also had many long discussions with Lizzie and she is not only very factual but IMHO is very fair and eloquent in the way she writes and presents things and personally I think she is a credit to OOF and the place if better for her return.
The problems with OOF is not public politics but personal politics and bad tempered point scoring. Personally, if I was an admin, I would just lock a thread where this started to happen to stop OOF as a public forum being brought into disrepute and warn the parties on their conduct. TBH just repeating the same things in an argument makes the thread VERY BORING anyway. If they start another thread and start again, then lock that and ban them both for a week. It takes two or more to argue and therefore I think that all parties in the argument should be banned as this keeps it simple for admins and they are not seen or perceived as taking sides.
An OOF rule ought to be you can discuss what you want as long as it is legal, but if you argue, are bad tempered or are rude to another or other members then you will get a warning and then a ban and the admin decisions are final. Brutal, but IMHO necessary for the good of the forum. I also think this should be done publically on the thread in question, so moderator decisions, for transparency, are in the open. It is then the personal responsibility for all members to behave correctly. If you don't want to do the time, don't commit the crime, simples.
Lets stop this blood letting as it is killing OOF and get back to it being a friendly place for car and non-car discussions. At the moment things are as bad or worse than they were with the DLK / Ljay saga.
My suggestion would be to lock this thread as I see it as part of the problem, lets put what has happened behind us and have a new start for all contributors so we can get back to enjoying this place again. I think there has been enough blood letting including on this thread and it is time for all parties to stop, before we all walk away and OOF is dead, which as Omega owners would be to the detriment and a loss for all of us as soon as we have car problems.
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I personaly couldn't give a toss either way
i wish you would get straight to the point :o :) ;D :y
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I personaly couldn't give a toss either way
i wish you would get straight to the point :o :) ;D :y
Well I dont
If I want to say something I do, if not I dont. :y :y
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Personally, I think politics is being made a scapegoat for all that is wrong with OOF.
I'm a political animal and like to express my opinion and do so by creating and commenting on political threads. After Nickbat and Albs, I'm probably third for the number of these threads that have been created in recent times on politics and economics. How many arguments have I had? NONE.
Why? For two reasons, arguments never achieve anything all they do in intrench each respective position, they bring as a public forum OOF into disrepute and it remains a discussion if you don't get personal and each time you comment you add something constructive to support what you are saying then it generally stays at the discussion level.
I don't expect everybody to agree with me, in fact the treads would be boring if they did, I quite happy to remain friends and agree to disagree at times. Once or twice people have been a nasty, but it is only very occasionally and I personally prefer to walk away than to wash dirty linen in public.
Very often when somebody has a pop it is due to other reasons, they have other non-OOF underlying problems and OOF has been used to as an outlet for this. Unfortunate, but we all after a bad day tend to shout at the wife and dog or dog and wife. It is human nature to take things out on those things closest to us. So maybe part of the problem is that some people are spending too much time on OOF.
Now I think it is fair to say that me and cem are never going to agree politically, but we had a big long thread on state control of production v capitalism. Both of us were making long comments on our respective positions, we never argued and respected each others opinions. Several people commented that they had enjoyed reading the long dialogs. Once we had reached the end of our points of view, me and cem agreed to disagree and left the thread as friends. This is how it should be. I've also had many long discussions with Lizzie and she is not only very factual but IMHO is very fair and eloquent in the way she writes and presents things and personally I think she is a credit to OOF and the place if better for her return.
The problems with OOF is not public politics but personal politics and bad tempered point scoring. Personally, if I was an admin, I would just lock a thread where this started to happen to stop OOF as a public forum being brought into disrepute and warn the parties on their conduct. TBH just repeating the same things in an argument makes the thread VERY BORING anyway. If they start another thread and start again, then lock that and ban them both for a week. It takes two or more to argue and therefore I think that all parties in the argument should be banned as this keeps it simple for admins and they are not seen or perceived as taking sides.
An OOF rule ought to be you can discuss what you want as long as it is legal, but if you argue, are bad tempered or are rude to another or other members then you will get a warning and then a ban and the admin decisions are final. Brutal, but IMHO necessary for the good of the forum. I also think this should be done publically on the thread in question, so moderator decisions, for transparency, are in the open. It is then the personal responsibility for all members to behave correctly. If you don't want to do the time, don't commit the crime, simples.
Lets stop this blood letting as it is killing OOF and get back to it being a friendly place for car and non-car discussions. At the moment things are as bad or worse than they were with the DLK / Ljay saga.
My suggestion would be to lock this thread as I see it as part of the problem, lets put what has happened behind us and have a new start for all contributors so we can get back to enjoying this place again. I think there has been enough blood letting including on this thread and it is time for all parties to stop, before we all walk away and OOF is dead, which as Omega owners would be to the detriment and a loss for all of us as soon as we have car problems.
As usual Rods2, I fully agree with your post, not just for the kind comment about me, but for all the other points you make. I feel now I need say no more :-* :-* 8) 8) :y :y :y :y
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........and that is the problem at the moment. You express an opinion, my personal experience which was very real for me at the time that in the past was agreed by other members, only to be criticised for doing so. Kevin you should know me better by now and all I can say is your quote of "allow those who don't attend said meets to insinuate that OOF meets are anything other than a friendly gathering of like-minded petrol heads keen to help each other." does not reflect what I am doing, nor I am afraid my personal experience. I speak as I find. I can do no more, and are purely responding to the point made by TB that "The national meets (Lakes and Newent) were packed (as were York and EA), the day meets busy." in the context of his opinion of where the OOF is going wrong.
I was purely responding and suggesting that I know why from MY experience, not assumed, not made up and certainly not with malicious intent.
But of course, as I have said in context of historical events, all empires eventually turn in on themselves and rip themselves apart, imploding under accusation and counter-accusation by the parties contained within. The OOF is at that point with all this that is transpiring now, and I am almost in tears over it. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Perhaps it is time to call it a day for me yet again. The pain is now not worth the gain. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
.. and that particular part of my comment was not aimed at your post as much as at STMO's, to be honest, and I apologise that you clearly read it differently to how I intended.
In my view, though, you haven't spoken as you found, in my eyes. STMO (who has, as far as I recall, never attended a meet) starts mumbling that attendance its going down and you reinforce it by implying that there's some sort of obvious reason for it. Fodder for the rumour mill that TheBoy eluded to in his post IMHO.
I'm simply arguing that that isn't my experience of any of the Omega meets. I believe I was at the meet in question and, whilst a lot of us had a very busy day, it was a great example of the spirit of OOF in action. So much so, that we went and drank the bar dry that night and were back sorting out the couple of member's cars that were still in bits the next day! I'm sure many of us got in trouble with our other halves for spending an entire weekend fettling with Omegas but such was the camaraderie, IMHO.
I don't believe there is some malaise that is keeping people away from meets, and I expect to be proved right at Terbert's meet on May bank holiday. It would be great to see you there, actually, Lizzie, because I'm sure your first impression was not an accurate one. :-\
Thanks Kevin, I did think it was targeted at me but obviously in my over-sensitive state at the moment I was wrong! Sorry!
Thanks also for that prompt to attend terberts meet, which I am tempted by. My only problem is I have a cam belt long overdue for replacement and perhaps are risking it to travel to High Wycombe. But I will have another think about that for the good of the OOF! 8) 8) :y :y :y
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Rods, it's the other way around. As in TB's posts, the admin point of view appears to have been this way for some time. Along with others opinions.
This thread is the result of, not the cause of.
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This thread has caused more problems than all the politics threads put together, IMHO. >:(
It should never have been started in my view. Indeed, I admit that I PM'd another member when it was started and stated my view that OOF had pressed the self-destruct button.
Sadly, I think that may be the case.
>:( :( :( :( :(
Perhaps true. But perhaps its an itch that requires/d scratching.
Does an admin always remain an admin or can a thread be started as a member? :-\
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This thread has caused more problems than all the politics threads put together, IMHO. >:(
It should never have been started in my view. Indeed, I admit that I PM'd another member when it was started and stated my view that OOF had pressed the self-destruct button.
Sadly, I think that may be the case.
>:( :( :( :( :(
That's precisely why it was started and steered in the direction it has ultimately taken! :-X
So, a mind reader then?? ;D ;D ;D
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What started as an honest question by Broocie regarding political threads has been hijacked by the same 1/2 dozen or so who seem unable to let someone else post without instantly answering in order to repeat ad nauseum the comments already made in order to repetitively restate their position, as they must be right.
The thread has gone from a "request for opinion" to a "conspiracy theory" about OOF closing down, who members are, and what their "agends" are.
As I see it it is almost as if certain members actually WANT either OOF, or GenDis, to be shut down simply so they can shout "I TOLD YOU SO" and appear to have been right.......
This is fast becoming almost a self-fulfilling prophecy...... :(
Entwood - Thanks. You are quite correct. And thats from Broocie, NOT H21, the admin! :)
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.......
You are right Nick, and I almost said it last night in my posts to ht21 but thought better of it in this climate of fear in saying your honest opinions now; this post would have been locked by TB at least if it had not been started by an Admin. Yes they run the site, but why let such a contentious and disrupted thread run and run drawing out further requirements for us to comment (like I feel compelled to do again now ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)) when it is doing the OOF no good at all. TB was right in stating that newbies could well be put off big time with the posts running in GenChat, but then we have this highly destructive thread running!! For what purpose? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
.....
I refer the honerable gentlewoman member to my post a few up regarding posting by an admin or a rank and file member. :)
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Personally I think the forum has past it's sell by date. It's still a brilliant place for info but the forum as it used to be has changed and I don't think it can be reversed. There are a lot of people on OOF that are so arguementative and think that their way is the only way and don't know when to stop, i'm a bit like that sometimes myself :'(
Agreed Pete. Also dont know how it can be reversed.
The highlit part is perhaps the nub of the problem.
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how about banning them for 48 hours or so, lets face it if your half way through spitting your dummy out or hammering your point home what can be worse than being silenced ;) or just lock the post
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how about banning them for 48 hours or so, lets face it if your half way through spitting your dummy out or hammering your point home what can be worse than being silenced ;)
Sounds reasonable TBH :y
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What started as an honest question by Broocie regarding political threads has been hijacked by the same 1/2 dozen or so who seem unable to let someone else post without instantly answering in order to repeat ad nauseum the comments already made in order to repetitively restate their position, as they must be right.
The thread has gone from a "request for opinion" to a "conspiracy theory" about OOF closing down, who members are, and what their "agends" are.
As I see it it is almost as if certain members actually WANT either OOF, or GenDis, to be shut down simply so they can shout "I TOLD YOU SO" and appear to have been right.......
This is fast becoming almost a self-fulfilling prophecy...... :(
Entwood - Thanks. You are quite correct. And thats from Broocie, NOT H21, the admin! :)
i was going to say that ;) :y
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For Christ sake lock it and forget it, while you are all breathing so much hot air several people on earth will be breathing their last!
Proper getting on my tits is this ::)
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For Christ sake lock it and forget it, while you are all breathing so much hot air several people on earth will be breathing their last!
Proper getting on my tits is this ::)
+1 and if had another username to use +2 ;D ;D ;D
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To paraphrase an oft quoted stance on political/global warming/whatever threads....
If it don't interest you don't read it.
:)
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But yes, perhaps time to lock.
Bottom line - from my admin standpoint - I will attempt to ensure that any of the entrenched arguments that can easily start will be stopped for the general good of the forum.
On a personal level, I hope this thread has done at least one thing. Caused ALL members to have a rethink about seeing the other side of an argument - you don't have to agree with it - and simply agree to disagree and not try to force feed a viewpoint and to always have the last word.
Thanks.
:) :y