Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Ninda on 04 July 2013, 11:12:23
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Hi does the 2003 3.2 Elite have a oil cooler? As well my Omega packed up, and i think Oil and Water are mixing :(
Could this be because of anything else? And if so how do i go about finding out what the problem is ?
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Oil in the Water (lots of it, normally), and no water in oil is good chance its your Oil Cooler.
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Yes it has an oil cooler sits in the middle of the engine, if oil is in the coolant (ie the coolant tank looks like its full of crap) then its oil cooler.
Water in the oil, from the dip stick means Head gasket.
The cooler is stainless steel, has it been run on pure water?
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Almost certainly oil cooler. :y
It used to be the accepted wisdom that the coolers on later cars shouldn't leak due to being made from stainless steel. Now they are all 10 + years old there seems to be more of them appearing with leaking coolers.
Ive seen quite a few in the last couple of years,and will soon be breaking a 3.2 Elite with a failed oil cooler. Obvious lack of coolant maintenance is always the common denominator.
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this is what you need --- http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90588.0
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90596.0
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Almost certainly the cooler, :y :y mine went and had oil in the water bottle so a nice shade of sh*te brown, :y also the oil in sump started to go the same way, as I left mine to stand a few weeks till I had the time to change it. ::) the best thing is not to drive it untill you have done it, and ONLY use a genuine cooler, "O" rings and sealant. :y also leave it 24 hours before filling with new coolant, Be prepared to do a lot of flushes as it takes forever to clear it. :(
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Almost certainly the cooler, :y :y mine went and had oil in the water bottle so a nice shade of sh*te brown, :y also the oil in sump started to go the same way, as I left mine to stand a few weeks till I had the time to change it. ::) the best thing is not to drive it untill you have done it, and ONLY use a genuine cooler, "O" rings and sealant. :y also leave it 24 hours before filling with new coolant, Be prepared to do a lot of flushes as it takes forever to clear it. :(
Pretty sure no option - believe pattern oil coolers not available ::)
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Mark did mine in under two hours, including an oil and filter change. :y
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Almost certainly the cooler, :y :y mine went and had oil in the water bottle so a nice shade of sh*te brown, :y also the oil in sump started to go the same way, as I left mine to stand a few weeks till I had the time to change it. ::) the best thing is not to drive it untill you have done it, and ONLY use a genuine cooler, "O" rings and sealant. :y also leave it 24 hours before filling with new coolant, Be prepared to do a lot of flushes as it takes forever to clear it. :(
sometimes even longer than that. ;D ;D
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Almost certainly the cooler, :y :y mine went and had oil in the water bottle so a nice shade of sh*te brown, :y also the oil in sump started to go the same way, as I left mine to stand a few weeks till I had the time to change it. ::) the best thing is not to drive it untill you have done it, and ONLY use a genuine cooler, "O" rings and sealant. :y also leave it 24 hours before filling with new coolant, Be prepared to do a lot of flushes as it takes forever to clear it. :(
sometimes even longer than that. ;D ;D
Yep, takes ages and lots of flushing, best to add flushing agent then warm up engine to normal temp then leave overnight, next morning (Engine Cold) hose pipe in the Coolant Tank Bottle and Rad Tap out and kept flushing, occasionally reving to 2/3k to warm Engine but not too hot!. Repeat over night as needed.
Ive tried all sorts of flushing agents, best in my opinion is Industrial Oven Cleaner, the modern stuff is designed not to damage metals, rubber etc and can be found at your Local (hic) Pub for Beers Tokens. :y
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OK thanks a lot guys for your replies :D
Yup its the Oil Cooler, as theres no "Mayo" on the dipstick :)
Does anyone know where i can get a replacement kit and how much it will cost?
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Vauxhall dealer. Around £150 iirc. Or if your budget is tight you could take a gamble on a used one at around £25.
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£150 doesnt sound too bad, but I called Vauxhalls and they said £180 :(
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£150 doesnt sound too bad, but I called Vauxhalls and they said £180 :(
Have you spoken to andyc aka Andy at Drive Bury St Edmunds
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A very low mileage used one here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OIL-COOLER-V6-OMEGA-SHOULD-FIT-OTHER-V6-GM-90-501955-SIGNUM-GM13101668-/370844939101?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item565814b35d#ht_1456wt_1070
could be got for a twenty quid plus less I suspect, if buying this one get him to remove the nuts that secure the cooler to the plate first and confirm the threads are still ok.
New here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OIL-COOLER-VECTRA-B-C-2-5-2-6-3-2-V6-93176626-/200928727580?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ec849121c#ht_909wt_832
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Ill probs just order a new one, but ill look out for Andy C :D, but hes like 2-3Hrs away from me, thats prity far lol
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but ill look out for Andy C :D, but hes like 2-3Hrs away from me,
He'll post ::) ::)
thats prity far lol
You're closer than a lot of us ;)
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Ill probs just order a new one, but ill look out for Andy C :D, but hes like 2-3Hrs away from me, thats prity far lol
If you`ve got a VX dealer near to you ask Andy to send it there on the van. No postage cost to you then, just collect it
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£150 doesnt sound too bad, but I called Vauxhalls and they said £180 :(
Was that for the kit that includes the sealant and "O" rings also the banjo bolt washers. :-\ :y
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@Andy B, fair point LOL :D
@Kevinp58, I just asked, it doesn't include them :( , but i am about to order this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OIL-COOLER-V6-OMEGA-SINTRA-SIGNUM-93176626-/190843297148?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c6f259d7c
Can anyone give any advice on how to flush the system? As i have replaced the Rad, with a second hand one from a mate of mine, and well i dont want to have the slim and glup and whatever u want to call it going through the "new" rad lol. Bit of a silly mistake by me as i should of tried to flush the system with the old rad, so does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
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@Andy B, fair point LOL :D
@Kevinp58, I just asked, it doesn't include them :( , but i am about to order this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OIL-COOLER-V6-OMEGA-SINTRA-SIGNUM-93176626-/190843297148?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c6f259d7c
Can anyone give any advice on how to flush the system? As i have replaced the Rad, with a second hand one from a mate of mine, and well i dont want to have the slim and glup and whatever u want to call it going through the "new" rad lol. Bit of a silly mistake by me as i should of tried to flush the system with the old rad, so does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
Its a few years since I last did one on a mates 2.5 ... but we used a "low suds biological detergent" that his wife "acquired" from her work .. (a hospital :) ) it took about 10-12 flushes IIRC, running it up to "normal" temp each time then allowing to cool to just warm before flushing 2/3 times with clear water before repeating the "bio" treatment .. it did take a long time .. about a week of doing a couple of flushes each night ... :(
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Replaced mine last year and it takes loads of flushing. Even if you'd flushed before removing the old cooler you wouldn't have been able to remove all IME, it takes ages at normal running temperature to remove all the residue. I used non bio washing powder for a good few flushes and can you believe washing up liquid for the final flushes. There are many recommendations for the cleaning agent but be persistent and flush, flush, flush before filling with chosen antifreeze. You have time, it will be a while before we freeze again!
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Ahh i see, i was thinking of getting a couple of Forte Lubricants Car Bio Cooling Coolant System Degreaser - 400ml, but i think 400ml wont be enough so i will be buying about 3 bottles.
But firstly i need to talk to Andy C and see what he can do for me, in terms of getting the Oil Cooler, then i will replace the old one, and put everything back together and flush the system :D
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Get some Radiator flush from a Plumbing Shop, about 20 quid and does about 100 litres, personally as said a few posts up, I found Industrial Oven Cleaner to work best of all, from my local Pub. ;)
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Get some Radiator flush from a Plumbing Shop, about 20 quid and does about 100 litres, personally as said a few posts up, I found Industrial Oven Cleaner to work best of all, from my local Pub. ;)
Ahh yes the Industrial Oven Cleaner :D, i will try and get some if i cant then ill just use whatever i can get my hands on to :)
But i got a quick question, which is kind of a stupid question but im just wondering, is it possible to clean the system using the old Oil Cooler? I would think not as all it would do is keep mixing the Oil into the Water :(
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Get some Radiator flush from a Plumbing Shop, about 20 quid and does about 100 litres, personally as said a few posts up, I found Industrial Oven Cleaner to work best of all, from my local Pub. ;)
Ahh yes the Industrial Oven Cleaner :D, i will try and get some if i cant then ill just use whatever i can get my hands on to :)
But i got a quick question, which is kind of a stupid question but im just wondering, is it possible to clean the system using the old Oil Cooler? I would think not as all it would do is keep mixing the Oil into the Water :(
No, you be wasting your time to be honest.
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Get some Radiator flush from a Plumbing Shop, about 20 quid and does about 100 litres, personally as said a few posts up, I found Industrial Oven Cleaner to work best of all, from my local Pub. ;)
Ahh yes the Industrial Oven Cleaner :D, i will try and get some if i cant then ill just use whatever i can get my hands on to :)
But i got a quick question, which is kind of a stupid question but im just wondering, is it possible to clean the system using the old Oil Cooler? I would think not as all it would do is keep mixing the Oil into the Water :(
No, you be wasting your time to be honest.
I thought so, just wanted to make sure as i dont have much time to waste :)
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BTW Thanks a lot guys for all your help and support :D
Really loving this forum, helping me keep my Omega running :)
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A little trick I learned when I did mine was:- :y If you can get your hands on a oil removal pump or some kind of sucking apparatus with a long thin tube you can get more of the sludge out by poking it down the water ways with the cooler removed, the main one is the hole that leads down to the water pump it is tricky but you can pretty much empty the engine block of crud. :y :y : Then refill with water and use a bottle of the forte stuff take it for a good run to get it all hot then being very careful undo the drain and empty it out, boil a couple of pots of water, flush then refil with another forte make sure you use warm or hot water let it idle get all the air out and take it for a run again then empty and flush with hot water, leave it to cool and fill with antifreeze and water mix. That did it for me, I have done around 3,000 miles now and the coolant is as pink as it should be. :) :y
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Thanks Kevinp58, i have a Oil Removal Pump somewhere but its useless, it barely does anything :(
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Hi guys, im having a little problem with the two oil pipes above the oil cooler, how do i move them out of the way? Do they need to be loosened from another place then removed?
For reference:- http://oldsite.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1221081908/0
the 5th picture, the two pipes just above the cooler
If someone has pictures of how to remove them/get them out of the way please can you post them
Thanks
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Hi guys, im having a little problem with the two oil pipes above the oil cooler, how do i move them out of the way? Do they need to be loosened from another place then removed?
For reference:- http://oldsite.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1221081908/0
the 5th picture, the two pipes just above the cooler
If someone has pictures of how to remove them/get them out of the way please can you post them
Thanks
They are fiddly little blighters >:(you need a 19 mm crows foot to loosen them at the filter end slide them out from the threaded holes and undo the banjo bolts at the cooler then they should move to one side enough to get the cooler and cover out, you will need to take the filter housing off to get to the oil pipe nuts.
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Yh, just realised that i skipped step one thinking i can just move the pipes to the side, just pushing them to one side
Thanks again mate :)
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You can push the pipes out of the way, if you remove the OC plate before removing the cooler, risky, but can be done, just make sure you dont cross thread them after fitting the new cooler when fitted.
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We recommoned the disconnection of the pipes at the oil cooler end for a few reasons.
1) It makes it much easier to get the cooler plate in/out
2) We have seen some cases where the pipes were disturbed at the oil filter end due to them being moved resulting in the block connections coming slightly loose and resulting in an oil leak.
3) You need to change the oil and filter anyway
4) It reduces the risk of cross threading the banjo bolts on re-fitting
5) Makes re-fitting of the pipes considerably easier
You can bend/move them out of the way but its not without risk
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Hi guys, i Finally got all the parts i needed on Tuesday, and got around fitting them on Wednesday, then yesterday started trying to flush the system out yesterday, but i noticed that the Radiator Fan never kicked in :( , Does it only turn on if the car is in Drive and has been moving about?
Also the temperature seems to go up to around 90, then it stays there, so that must mean its working, but 90 seems a bit high doesnt it?
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Fans don't kick in until some way between 90 and 100 (on the later facelift gauges). The thermal switches can get covered in mayo after an oil cooler failure, though, which reduces their sensitivity, so it may be advisable to unscrew them from the rad. and clean them once you've flushed the system a few times and got rid of most of the oil contamination.
Due to the pressure they operate at, cooling systems are generally not prone to boiling until getting on for 120 degrees C, so certainly not worth panicking until it's north of 100 on the gauge.
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You sir are Correct :D, fans didnt kick in till the car got to around 90ish, so its all good :)
I have flushed the system about 5 times, and water seems to coming out clean, althought there is very little particles in the Coolant Tank, that just wont go away :(
But i guess its ok to drive now ??
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But i guess its ok to drive now ??
Yes, keeping an eye on the gauge. You might find it needs flushing a few more times. Keep an eye out for oil residue in the expansion tank.
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But i guess its ok to drive now ??
Try smaller journeys first, keeping a close eye on temps.
Continue flushing daily.
Carry spare coolant (or just water - just for emergency) for a while, as the oil sometimes softens the rubber pipes (esp round the back of engine for some reason), so they split.
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OK thanks guys, i have been keeping my eyes on the tank and the temperature seems to hover around 85 to 95 mark, doesnt seem to go any higher, and my journey's are relatively short to and from work about 15 minutes there and 15 minutes back
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After changing my oil cooler, there was no heat in the cabin for a while, several flushes later, the heating resumed normal service. It may be worth turning your heating to 'high' (not really what you want to be doing in this weather!) if you haven't already done so just to be sure the whole system is completely flushed and operating normally?