Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Paulus62 on 20 July 2013, 14:57:24
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Afternoon all,
After messing about last evening trying to find a socket to fit the inside nut (which I measured with rule as 31mm) ::) I got the calipers out and measured it properly as 31.89mm, so off to Halfords to get a socket as my set only goes upto 30mm ::)
After trying various ways to crack the nut came up with this rather Heath Robinson set up....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/h0o56i3sjcp2i1s/Undoing%2032mm%20nut.jpg)
... Which worked quite well, lifting off floor and rotating a bit and down again, twice and nut came off :)
That is when I found there was a locking plate on top of the nut and nipped into the 2 recesses in the hub (see pics below)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/43rnjd4ario3xqs/32mm%20nut%20and%20locking%20plate.jpg)(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/u3vf9lbc2to6vk6/32mm%20nut%20removed.jpg)
If I had removed the locking plate first I probably wouldn't have needed the jack, you live and learn, or not at times ::)
Now that I've got this far I am not entirely sure what to do next, I think its a matter of pushing the inside out with pullers hooked around B in picture below pushing onto A ???
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/n9215zm23y2018d/inside%20wheel%20hub.jpg)
Then what do I do?? I assume that the outside, below, comes out when doing the pullers from the point where the 2 arrows ans ? mark are.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/20xfiohcg4n320e/Outer%20hub.jpg)
As I'm doing this blind, (without a exploded diagram, that is) I don't want to force anything that has a simple locking mechanism. It would be my luck to damage something important and have to get a whole new hub, etc.
Directions will be gratefully accepted :)
Paul
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The outer flange is the same lump of metal as A. So once you've removed the inner flange B, the outer should just slide out of the bearing :y
Then the fun begins...
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That's the drive flange you're trying to remove.
Your suggestion about the puller is how it's done. It's not particularly tight, as the splines actually drive it. I found a Mini flywheel puller did mine, as would a length of heavy strap/angle-iron bolted across the flange, with a nut welded in the middle for a bolt to push against the threaded part(which as actually the back end of the hub).
Once the drive flange is out of the way, you get to operate on the hub, which may come out easily. If the bearing is still in one piece, the hub might pull straight through both races. It's much more likely to end up cocked between them, which will require some ingenuity to make a robust puller that will extract it without damaging anything. This is where owning a welder is really handy!
Mine was made from scrapbinium; a short length of large bore hydraulic tubing, a thick metal disc, M16 nut in the centre and a couple of lugs to bolt it to the back of the upright. That lot was welded together and pushed the jammed hub out in seconds.
The circlip is hefty, and has been in place a long time. Large, good quality circlip pliers are essential, but still wouldn't do the job on mine; I cut it into three pieces with a Dremel, as I was my oxy-acetylene cylinders were empty.
The bearing was easily removed with a couple of appropriate spacers and threaded bar to pull it from its housing.
I fitted the replacement the same way, but having left it in the freezer overnight could probably have driven it in with a decent hammer.
Reassemble the handbrake shoes before fitting the hub; it is MUCH easier!
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Thank you Nick & Al :y
I don't have the welding gear so I'm hoping pullers will do..... ::)
...and if they don't, my neighbour had welding gear.... ;)
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Additional info:
You'll probably need to cut the bearing race off the hub; use a thin cutting disc(angle grinder for speed, Dremel for accuracy) to cut a slot in it, and a whack with a chisel will do the job. If it comes off in one piece, it makes a good spacer to aid refitting the hub.
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Cheers Nick :y
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Evening all,
Some more progress made, with the aid of a few nuts & bolts that I was saving for something ;) through wheel nut holes pressing against smaller nut & bolt, washer & nut on bolt though hub and tighten up, going from side to side....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/4i8xuueyhkptdhy/hub%20extraction.jpg)
So I've now ended up with these......
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/zd1qz80ij3a3vpb/hub%20and%20spline%20removed.jpg)(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/uykdwi5ejj88d0w/old%20bearings.jpg)
Before I go further, does the replacement bearings come with a new circlip [1]? I don't want to cut it out if I need it again.
Do I remove the inner ball race [2] from the outside as well as the outer ball race (what's left of it)?
With the inner part of the outer race that is still on the hub shaft, do I try to get it off in 1 or do I cut it off with a fine wheel on the Dremel?
I'm assuming that it's not a good idea to mark the shaft if possible?
Then to be prepared (like all good Scouts), what is the torque value for the 32mm nut that holds everything together at the end?
Thanks for the assistance to date, would be well and truly up the creak without a boat, let alone a paddle ::) :)
Paul
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The new bearing should come with a new circlip. They're often damaged when removed, so that's normal.
Cut the inner race off with a Dremel. One slot through most of it and a whack with a chisel will be enough. Try to avoid marking the shaft, although any slight damage is easily filed/polished out.
There is no need to dismantle the rest of the bearing as it's supposed to stay in one piece!
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Thanks again Nick :y
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Hi all,
spent yesterday hunting around for bits & bobs to make a puller to remove the outer sleeve of the bearing from the hub and came up with this...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/yq17p3y4k13tm3g/back%20of%20hub.jpg)(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/e2k6pc2jpuvbkd3/outer%20hub%20seeve%20pulling%20setup.jpg)
I've tried with bolts A pushing bar away from hub with bolt C pulling through and just bolt C tightening the bar against the rim of hub B and nothing is moving, left it on all night and still no joy :(
So I have come to the conclusion that I'm going to dremel a slot in the bearing case as per.....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/9oopqwc8k9lya77/Inside%20hub%20whats%20left%20of%20bearing.jpg)
Cutting along line A and pulling out inner sleeve & ball race B
in the same manner that I removed the inner casing from the spindle....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/bgim1icgr2vic6i/hub%20spindle%20with%20dremeled%20off%20inner%20sleeve%20.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/toij4gm4zuqkmvx/bearing%20from%20behind%20hub.jpg)
Am I right in that from the underside of car looking out at hub the point X is where the bearing pushes up to and Y & Z are the ball race cover & inner sleeve respectfully?
I have tried smacking it with a large hammer and punch around the inside with no effect at all other than increased back ache/pain and a tired arm! I now see what people mean when they say is a sod to do, I'm getting a bit tired of it now :'( and it needs to be out for tomorrow ::) so I can fit the new one (assuming AndyC managed to get it in & out to me today, fingers crossed) :y
All 'sensible' (in that I don't have welding, burning gear, etc & its on axle stands on gravel drive :( ) advice gratefully accepted :)
Thanks,
Paul
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You're on the right track with the puller. It's worth checking that your strap at "C" will actually fit through the hole in the upright, and not bind. The piece across the front of the bearing will need to be spaced outwards once the bearing starts to move. Starting it moving is the tricky bit; get as much tension in the puller as you dare and give it a hefty whack from behind. It's worth leaving it tensioner for a time, and then try it again.
Grinding the bearing out will be a horrible job, only do it as a last resort.
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No simple ideas to help ... the piece of kit that sassenach uses (home made) involves some long lengths of steel, suitable attachments, an axle stand, and the piece de resistance ... a sledgehammer !!!
Given this equipment the little sod was out in 3 blows !!!
Good luck !!!
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Thanks again Nick :y
Unfortunately I don't have that much steel to hand, Entwood but thanks for the info re size of hammer :o :)
I'll make a few adjustments to ensure clearance, I'm using one of the old cam belt adjusters which just fit inside. Figured that if I got it to move that much I can add the other one after (if I can find a bolt long enough and assuming that it does move!) Looks like a bigger hammer is called for :) Oh no, look like more pain ::)
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your on the right lines.forget bolts a,and replace bolt c with m20 or m24 threaded rod and nuts and get the brg started,once it moves pull the brg flush with the housing. then perhaps you can reinstate bolts a, but i use a sleeve on top off the housing. :y
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your on the right lines.forget bolts a,and replace bolt c with m20 or m24 threaded rod and nuts and get the brg started,once it moves pull the brg flush with the housing. then perhaps you can reinstate bolts a, but i use a sleeve on top off the housing. :y
Unfortunately I don't have anything that big :( If I don't get anywhere in the next few hours I'll have to order some from somewhere that can deliver next day (I hope!)
Nice to find that I am along the right lines though :y
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Screwfix sell M20 nuts & studding..
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Screwfix sell M20 nuts & studding..
Thanks, didn't think of them :)
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:y They're not necessarily the cheapest* but the quality is fair and they do come in handy in a pinch, I've found!
*ok, they're almost never the cheapest ;D
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:y They're not necessarily the cheapest* but the quality is fair and they do come in handy in a pinch, I've found!
*ok, they're almost never the cheapest ;D
All part of the Kingfisher group, with B&Q IIRC. They were very good value when independent. ::)
After hitting the "small" bolt for a while with my best 4lb ball pein hammer, a thought occurred to me (frightening thing that ;D) should I have the arm on an axle stand taking the weight of the car? Then each blow from the hammer will be more effective as the arm & suspension won't be absorbing most of the energy? :-\ ::)
If so do I support at point K or L in pic below ~ being thick again :)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/kwyq09ozoo4pboh/rear%20axle.jpg)
I think it would be K, but I've been wrong too many times when it comes to the correct placement of jacks, stands and the like to my dismay ::) ;D ;D
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Put on stand at point K and managed to move bearing 1mm ;D
As screwfix only sold bar in packs of 5 & nut in 50's I thought I'd phone Gwyn "Penguin" and see if he had any spare bar knock about. Gwyn came around had a look, took measurements and went off, coming back half a hour later with bar, washers to the right diameter and a box section as he didn't have any pipe 80mm inside dia. Then set it up and with his impact driver pulled bearing out in less than 5 minutes :y ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Has left bar and washers to assist refitting new bearing. Cost "get me a pint sometime" What a star :y
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New bearing has arrive & is in the freezer to shrink it a smidge :)
A few questions just to be sure:
Am I right in thinking that the bearing can go in either way? Or should the face that has writing on be outermost?
Should I put any grease on the surfaces that the bearing slides into and inside bearing where spline of hub goes?
What is the Torque values for the 32mm nut & the 6 T50 (8mm Hex on looking now ???) And does it matter where the 3 tie plates go or should they go back in the same place on drive shaft to hub joint?
Lastly, I hope. ::) What should I use on the hand brake actuator to stop is getting seized? I used copper slip last time, it seems that it attracts all the muck around and contributed to seizure rather than assisting in keeping actuator free!
Thanks,
Paul
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In order:
It can go in either way
A small smear of grease certainly won't hurt.
Can't remember, the manual is in the garage.
Copperslip is fine, but it doesn't need much. Work the mechanism a few times, and wipe off the surplus.
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In order:
It can go in either way
A small smear of grease certainly won't hurt.
Can't remember, the manual is in the garage.
Copperslip is fine, but it doesn't need much. Work the mechanism a few times, and wipe off the surplus.
dont use grease or copper slip,use a water based lubricant either washing up liquid or ky-(serious)
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In order:
It can go in either way
A small smear of grease certainly won't hurt.
Can't remember, the manual is in the garage.
Copperslip is fine, but it doesn't need much. Work the mechanism a few times, and wipe off the surplus.
dont use grease or copper slip,use a water based lubricant either washing up liquid or ky-(serious)
Thanks for this, only just got internet back on, BT doing work on line :o
As bearing was -18°C on leaving freezer, it had a layer of frost on it when it went in, worked a treat ;D Needed to borrow Gwyn's cordless impact driver to tighten the last 5mm of slack up as I couldn't move the nut by then :-[ disadvantage of not having any room under car & being half crippled doing the job :'(
Looking on the brighter side, I've accomplished more in the past month and a half than i would ever have considered 18 months ago, thanks to this great forum & the support it gives us newbies :y :y :y
Hand brake tomorrow as I ran out of light to finish it off ::) Time for a beer :y
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Thanks for this, only just got internet back on, BT doing work on line :o
As bearing was -18°C on leaving freezer, it had a layer of frost on it when it went in, worked a treat ;D Needed to borrow Gwyn's cordless impact driver to tighten the last 5mm of slack up as I couldn't move the nut by then :-[ disadvantage of not having any room under car & being half crippled doing the job :'(
Looking on the brighter side, I've accomplished more in the past month and a half than i would ever have considered 18 months ago, thanks to this great forum & the support it gives us newbies :y :y :y
Hand brake tomorrow as I ran out of light to finish it off ::) Time for a beer :y
Enjoy :y
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Well Done that man! :y
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An excellent result. Any chance of a How to? :y
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An excellent result. Any chance of a How to? :y
I'll give it a try, won't be for a little while, hoping to go camping with my boy if passes MOT.
(Mate, Gwyn said that he'd look out for a 85mm inside diameter pipe and make up a jig to extract the bearing to make things easier ::) )
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APOLOGIES FOR HIJACKING THIS POST !!!
I have a 1999 2.2 cdxi estate (150,000mls) with a knackered offside rear wheel bearing (not sure about nearside as rumble from offside is drowning out all other noises ! ) ........ Looking at this and previous posts I had concluded this job is at the extremities of my abilities and sadly but probably more importantly my facilities !!! I live in Maidstone, Kent and need some advice please.. does anyone know if there is someone locally (or within driving distance!) that would be able to replace the bearings for me at a viable cost .............. my local garages seem to be more than happy to tell me "scrap it mate, it would cost more than the car's worth!" .............. Love my omega and really dont want to scrap it if I can avoid it !
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That would be me then!
Although I can't do anything for a couple of weeks as I'm away next weekend.
Scrapping it for two £30 parts and an afternoon's work seems a bit much. It's not that bad a job, once you've acquired some appropriate tools. Facilities aren't that important; I did mine in the street.
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Had my n/side done at a local garage some years ago at 4 hours labour.
Would welcome the chance of watching/helping to see how it is done incase I ever need to get 1 done again as I am also local
Possibly a " Wheel Bearing Meet " then ? ;)
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That would be me then!
Although I can't do anything for a couple of weeks as I'm away next weekend.
Scrapping it for two £30 parts and an afternoon's work seems a bit much. It's not that bad a job, once you've acquired some appropriate tools. Facilities aren't that important; I did mine in the street.
Thanks for offer, will talk logistics etc, when you return, I have a few tools for general car repairs, have replaced front pads, rear discs, pads & h/b shoes in last 6months but dont have any "heavy duty" garage gear which I suspect this job needs. happy to help and be "the other pair of hands" but really would be working in the dark if doing myself.
paul
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Thanks for offer, will talk logistics etc, when you return, I have a few tools for general car repairs, have replaced front pads, rear discs, pads & h/b shoes in last 6months but dont have any "heavy duty" garage gear which I suspect this job needs. happy to help and be "the other pair of hands" but really would be working in the dark if doing myself.
paul
It's only next weekend I'm away! The only heavy duty gear needed is a decent jack/axle stands and a hefty torque wrench.
If you'd like to bring it to me on Saturday 10th August, I'll be happy to help. Just bring the car and a new bearing; Eurocarparts in Quarrywood had them on the shelf when I bought mine last year.
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Thanks Nick,
Saturday 10th I am in London all day, but could do Sunday 11th ??? If you want to keep your Sundays clear I fully understand and could do Saturday 17th.
Paul