Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: petes on 13 August 2013, 14:01:53

Title: tyre wear
Post by: petes on 13 August 2013, 14:01:53
Hi, I have tyre wear on the outside of my front tyres, this has been an on going problem 4 sets of tyres!. I have the tracking done several times but I still have the same problem. Can anyone come up the solution to this problem.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Andy B on 13 August 2013, 14:31:50
Hi, I have tyre wear on the outside of my front tyres, this has been an on going problem 4 sets of tyres!. I have the tracking done several times but I still have the same problem. Can anyone come up the solution to this problem.

you need a full 4 wheel geometry check done  :y
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2013, 15:04:20
wear on either shoulder (singly) is incorrect toe angle. if theyre work on both shoulders it could be under inflation.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Andy B on 13 August 2013, 15:11:55
wear on either shoulder (singly) is incorrect toe angle.....

or camber angle  ;)
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2013, 15:26:32
wear on either shoulder (singly) is incorrect toe angle.....

or camber angle  ;)

what he said  ;D

am I right in thinking that camber on a lot of cars isn't adjustable?
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Andy B on 13 August 2013, 15:50:55
....
am I right in thinking that camber on a lot of cars isn't adjustable?

Correct. Though there is some adjustment at the front of an Omega.  :y
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2013, 15:59:33
....
am I right in thinking that camber on a lot of cars isn't adjustable?

Correct. Though there is some adjustment at the front of an Omega.  :y

nice one andy. is there a how to in the maint. guides on that? or do you need the laser equipment? I know setting toe can be done with that mirror set up... used it once or twice  :y
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Andy B on 13 August 2013, 16:07:55
....
nice one andy. is there a how to in the maint. guides on that? or do you need the laser equipment? I know setting toe can be done with that mirror set up... used it once or twice  :y

There are DIY camber angle gauges about, but they're just best guess. When tyr3s are £100+ per corner, it's cheaper in the long run to take it somewhere proper for wheel alignment.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 August 2013, 16:08:25
Toe angle does not generaly cause significant edge wear
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: dbdb on 13 August 2013, 16:12:50
Oh goody another tyre thread ;D

Agreed sounds like the camber is out. 

Wear on outside edge is unusual, normally the inside edge goes because the mig is correctly set with negative camber.  Positive camber must give you horrible handling :o. 

National Tyres insisted to me the camber is not adjustable on the mig I told them it was and how to do it and they consulted their own manual which wasn't clear.  Of course it is, you just need to go to a decent place (doesn't have to be WIM but could be ::))

If it's tracking at fault (which seems unlikely) you should see some distinctive feathering of the edges.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2013, 16:44:44
Toe angle does not generaly cause significant edge wear

Well that's what I thought. If you think about the camber angle (just look at an F1 car for exaggerated camber at the front) anyone would guess that depending on whether it was positive or negative you would see inner or outer wear.

but my copy book definitely says toe  ::)
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: dbdb on 13 August 2013, 16:47:32
Toe angle does not generaly cause significant edge wear

Well that's what I thought. If you think about the camber angle (just look at an F1 car for exaggerated camber at the front) anyone would guess that depending on whether it was positive or negative you would see inner or outer wear.

but my copy book definitely says toe  ::)

Could be toe/tracking:

(http://www.wheelalignmentcentrebirmingham.co.uk/uploads/3/2/7/1/3271136/1620667_orig.jpg)

I thought unlikely because the tracking has been set a few times but depends who did it I suppose. 
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2013, 17:00:49
so that diagram is showing that outside wear is due to the toe angle?  :-\ im all confused now.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Shackeng on 13 August 2013, 17:14:22
Hi, I have tyre wear on the outside of my front tyres, this has been an on going problem 4 sets of tyres!. I have the tracking done several times but I still have the same problem. Can anyone come up the solution to this problem.

As above, full geo check rqd. Where was the tracking done? And what facilities did they have? :-\

Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Agemo on 13 August 2013, 17:14:34
Yes, it could be either Toe, or Camber. You can check and adjust both yourself, but if you take it somewhere, make sure they know that the Camber can be adjusted, or they will just check Tracking & say it's fine!
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Webby the Bear on 13 August 2013, 17:33:39
Yes, it could be either Toe, or Camber. You can check and adjust both yourself, but if you take it somewhere, make sure they know that the Camber can be adjusted, or they will just check Tracking & say it's fine!

 :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: petes on 13 August 2013, 19:19:09
Thanks guys for all your advice. Hope this will save me a couple of hundred pound every year  :y  :)
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: chrisgixer on 13 August 2013, 19:40:58
Any handling or tyre wear fault.



Before you pay for full geometric set up...


1. Examine the car for for faulty or worn components, FIRST.

2. Having examined the car, rectified any issues and found it fault free, THEN get it set up for full geo.

3. Having checked there are no faults on the car and THEN had it set up, fit new tyres and the car should behave itself.


Oh, and just a wee note. Did I mention... CHECK THE CAR BEFORE YOU HAVE IT SET UP. And before fitting new tyres again.
Steering especially, given your fault, and suspension set up on the omega can hide numerous issues, several of which are toe related and can cause your problem. :)

Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: chrisgixer on 13 August 2013, 19:43:02
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90492.0
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Andy H on 13 August 2013, 20:05:15
The front suspension arm pivots are attached to the front subframe which is fixed to the body by four loose fitting bolts.

WIM have found that on some cars they need to loosen the subframe bolts and reposition the subframe to find a compromise position which gets the all settings as close as possible to the desired settings.

Not many garages offering "full geometry checks" are prepared to do more than adjust the tracking. (WIM being the notable exception)
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: chrisgixer on 13 August 2013, 20:54:02
The front suspension arm pivots are attached to the front subframe which is fixed to the body by four loose fitting bolts.

WIM have found that on some cars they need to loosen the subframe bolts and reposition the subframe to find a compromise position which gets the all settings as close as possible to the desired settings.

Not many garages offering "full geometry checks" are prepared to do more than adjust the tracking. (WIM being the notable exception)

You wouldn't believe how they found that out. Btw. ;)
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: dbdb on 14 August 2013, 00:23:23
To see if it is tracking, which will be cheapest to fix, look carefully at the tyre wear.  If the tracking is out and causing the problem the worn rubber will be feathered - rounded at the leading edge and sharp at the trailing edge as if you had run sandpaper over the tyre continuously in the same direction i.e leading edge to trailing.  The wear will be slightly NOT parallel to the tyre grooves.

Not always easy to spot but often obvious. 

But at some point, probably now,  a full geometry check will be cheaper than throwing away rubber and continually adjusting tracking.

Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Seth on 14 August 2013, 00:52:00
The front suspension arm pivots are attached to the front subframe which is fixed to the body by four loose fitting bolts.

WIM have found that on some cars they need to loosen the subframe bolts and reposition the subframe to find a compromise position which gets the all settings as close as possible to the desired settings.

Not many garages offering "full geometry checks" are prepared to do more than adjust the tracking. (WIM being the notable exception)

The caster angle setting must be the first of the front-end adjustments - followed by camber and then alignment.

The caster angle should be identical values for both sides, and is achieved by moving/repositioning the subframe.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 August 2013, 14:14:49
Toe angle does not generaly cause significant edge wear

Well that's what I thought. If you think about the camber angle (just look at an F1 car for exaggerated camber at the front) anyone would guess that depending on whether it was positive or negative you would see inner or outer wear.

but my copy book definitely says toe  ::)

Your copy book is a poor reference then sadly, it must be the same as most tyre places have  ;D :y

For significant wear you need a compromised contact patch on the road under normal driving, toe does not do this.

Toe wear is over a much larger area, its often easy to feel with your hand due to the raised edges of the tread blocks.

Hard edge wear would be camber where the contact patch is significantly decreased.

F1 is different as they are looking to get a large contact patch under cornering so the camber is big and will be changed for every circuit and may potentialy be different on each wheel.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: dbdb on 14 August 2013, 16:09:58
Other things being equal toe-in creates wear at the outside edges of a tyre, while toe-out creates wear at the inside edges. Agreed the wear is over a large area but it is more pronounced inside or outside. The edge being pushed sideways into the road wears faster than the edge being dragged sideways along the road.
Title: Re: tyre wear
Post by: Kevin Wood on 14 August 2013, 18:44:40
The other thing to bear in mind is that toe wear will affect both tyres - perhaps not equally, but the wear pattern will be evident on both tyres. Camber wear won't unless both are out by the same amount.

Still, wear right on the shoulders will be camber. Toe wear is often over 1/3rd of the tread width.