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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: TheBoy on 17 March 2014, 19:43:24

Title: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2014, 19:43:24
As many know, I have a 2.0DTi Zafira shitbox for specific reasons, including a UK holiday next week.

Its had a replacement turbo (thanks MDTM) as the old one was a "bit" worn, and a new MAF, as the old one was most likely oil contaminated due to shagged turbo.  Both of these improved the power, and reduced the EML frequency. But it still wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. If I had to estimate power, given its weight, I'd say its giving about 50-60bhp.

Last set of codes were P0105 Critical Malfunction 2 and P1100 Critical Malfunction 1 - both these point towards either turbo or MAF, though since changing MAF earlier today, only seen this once now, and can't repeat (I could guarantee to get them before, by revving about 3k rpm in top gear).

EGR cleaned (twice), MAP cleaned (twice). Swirl flaps not cleaned yet, but seem to be free to move.


Any experts?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 March 2014, 19:45:54
Mum bus, eh? ???

As said, I have a log from a good one and a broken one, albeit a 2.2, if you need them. :y
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Jimbob on 17 March 2014, 20:04:57
Memory states those codes can be vaccuum related....
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 March 2014, 20:16:07
There's a set of diagnostic steps under those codes in TIS which check out all the vacuum actuators - EGR, boost control and the swirl flappy things.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: chrisgixer on 17 March 2014, 20:25:07
Blocked exhaust.

No I know. No idea me.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2014, 20:54:58
Mum bus, eh? ???
Yeah, need something that can carry 4/5 adults AND luggage. And once I get back, it will be my storage facility ::)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2014, 20:55:42
Blocked exhaust.
That thought had past my mind, but didn't think diesels block exhausts like petrols block cats?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Andy H on 17 March 2014, 20:57:35
Blocked exhaust.
That thought had past my mind, but didn't think diesels block exhausts like petrols block cats?
They do block intercoolers......
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2014, 20:59:04
Blocked exhaust.
That thought had past my mind, but didn't think diesels block exhausts like petrols block cats?
They do block intercoolers......
Mr DTM checked for blocks and leaks, and declared it OK, although did have a bit of oil in it
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 March 2014, 21:27:34
Mum bus, eh? ???
Yeah, need something that can carry 4/5 adults AND luggage. And once I get back, it will be my storage facility ::)

Ah, mobile tool chest. :y
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2014, 21:39:21
Mum bus, eh? ???
Yeah, need something that can carry 4/5 adults AND luggage. And once I get back, it will be my storage facility ::)

Ah, mobile tool chest. :y
Mobile would be good right now. My definition of mobile is something that can set a 0-60 time :P
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: 05omegav6 on 17 March 2014, 21:54:03
Mum bus, eh? ???
Yeah, need something that can carry 4/5 adults AND luggage. And once I get back, it will be my storage facility ::)

Ah, mobile tool chest. :y
Mobile would be good right now. My definition of mobile is something that can set a 0-60 km/h time :P
Fixed :y
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: martin42 on 18 March 2014, 06:53:13
Theres 2 vacuum pumps infront off the battery,if the pipes are swapped over can throw up the eml light,which can easily happen if somebody has removed them previously.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 09:48:06
Theres 2 vacuum pumps infront off the battery,if the pipes are swapped over can throw up the eml light,which can easily happen if somebody has removed them previously.
Cheers. Vac layout matches the diagram in the GM documentation, and tech2 manual activation of the EGR, Swirl flaps and turbo wastegate all activate the correct actuator :)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: martin42 on 18 March 2014, 10:29:46
They are not the,best engine to have in a zafira,only 100 bhp and,not very quick,remap might help tho,but why not stick a,v6 in it ....
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: P6UL K on 18 March 2014, 11:49:55
Mum bus, eh? ???

As said, I have a log from a good one and a broken one, albeit a 2.2, if you need them. :y

And is still not fixed.... Now on eBay as 'Spares or Repair'

I've exhausted all avenues and with no-one seemingly having the necessary genuine experience on these engines I've thrown the towel in  :-[
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 14:23:21
They are not the,best engine to have in a zafira,only 100 bhp and,not very quick,remap might help tho,but why not stick a,v6 in it ....
I'd be content with 100bhp in it. Given that it tops out at about 80mph, I'm guessing its got about half of that...
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 14:46:14
As we now know the Turbo is boosting (at least without load) well, I would be checking:

1) All solenoids by bypassing them all at the same time (thought being that if a single solenoid is faulty or leaking vac, it would not show up on the test we did but might affect the operation is a second is then enabled). This probably requries the turbo and swirl flaps actuators needing a direct supply and the EGR getting no supply.

2) Intercooler to inlet pipe - its the only one we didn't remove so wants checking, I would also liked to have removed and pressure tested the intercooler but as you know, it would not come out easily.

Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 March 2014, 14:55:35
How much boost pressure are you seeing under load?

P6ULK's was vaguely tracking a little lower than the "target boost" - up to about 1.8 BAR, if memory serves. I didn't think that was unusual until I got a log from a working example that continued straight up to 2.5 BAR while the "target boost" sat at about 2 BAR.

Worth looking at the boost pressure control actuator in a data log, too. You can then see if this is coming in to limit boost pressure or if it's basically just open loop and not making enough boost (as was the case with P6ULK's example). From memory, the PWM on the boost pressure control sits at about 45% until it starts limiting boost, where it drops, ultimately to about 5% at full boost.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 15:12:43
How much boost pressure are you seeing under load?

P6ULK's was vaguely tracking a little lower than the "target boost" - up to about 1.8 BAR, if memory serves. I didn't think that was unusual until I got a log from a working example that continued straight up to 2.5 BAR while the "target boost" sat at about 2 BAR.

Worth looking at the boost pressure control actuator in a data log, too. You can then see if this is coming in to limit boost pressure or if it's basically just open loop and not making enough boost (as was the case with P6ULK's example). From memory, the PWM on the boost pressure control sits at about 45% until it starts limiting boost, where it drops, ultimately to about 5% at full boost.

2.0 Dti has a different turbo I think, its variable vain where as the 2.0 Dti is a standard waste gate setup.

Hence generaly it sits with the boost valve set for 100% until boost pressure is reached before it vents the exhaust gases.

The turbo we removed was in bad shape though, plenty of play in the spindle and the inlet pipes barely swelled when it came on, much much better with the replacement one.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 15:21:43
So:
Y22DT - Garrett GT1849V (Vaiable Vane)
Y20DT - Garrett G15 (Waste Gate)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 17:13:59
Anyone know where sells the little rubber connectors used for the vac pipes. And vac pipes come to that (vac pump to turbo solenoid is a tad short, and has signed of rubbing (but not bad enough to cause a fault), so may as well change it)?

Euroshiteparts, GSF, Hellfrauds and a local factors all let me down.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 17:16:04
Should add, I did find a split rubber, but that is not the fault. Temporarily replaced with a short bit of leak-off pipe.

The leak-off pipes look like they have seen better days, but do not appear to be leaking. Is that the issue with leak-off pipes (ie, they leak)?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 17:20:48
How much boost pressure are you seeing under load?

P6ULK's was vaguely tracking a little lower than the "target boost" - up to about 1.8 BAR, if memory serves. I didn't think that was unusual until I got a log from a working example that continued straight up to 2.5 BAR while the "target boost" sat at about 2 BAR.

Worth looking at the boost pressure control actuator in a data log, too. You can then see if this is coming in to limit boost pressure or if it's basically just open loop and not making enough boost (as was the case with P6ULK's example). From memory, the PWM on the boost pressure control sits at about 45% until it starts limiting boost, where it drops, ultimately to about 5% at full boost.
From memory, it boosts up to 2.2 on the old turbo (or up to about 2.6 with the vac pump directly connected to the wastegate ::)). Would need to recheck with the replacement turbo.

Any value in taking a snapshot on a 0-60 dash?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 17:37:11
Anyone know where sells the little rubber connectors used for the vac pipes. And vac pipes come to that (vac pump to turbo solenoid is a tad short, and has signed of rubbing (but not bad enough to cause a fault), so may as well change it)?

Euroshiteparts, GSF, Hellfrauds and a local factors all let me down.

Basicaly the same as used on most of the V6 setup so second hand items should be easily sourced.

As for leak off pipes, the generaly draw air in and if very bad show slight signs of fuel
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: P6UL K on 18 March 2014, 17:38:41
Anyone know where sells the little rubber connectors used for the vac pipes. And vac pipes come to that (vac pump to turbo solenoid is a tad short, and has signed of rubbing (but not bad enough to cause a fault), so may as well change it)?

Euroshiteparts, GSF, Hellfrauds and a local factors all let me down.

Halfords sell a small tray containing varied Y, T & straight connectors for vacuum piping, as for the piping you can buy it by the meter on eBay... I use Mr Silicone
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: anddyy88 on 18 March 2014, 18:47:26
Anyone know where sells the little rubber connectors used for the vac pipes. And vac pipes come to that (vac pump to turbo solenoid is a tad short, and has signed of rubbing (but not bad enough to cause a fault), so may as well change it)?

Euroshiteparts, GSF, Hellfrauds and a local factors all let me down.

gm want £6 each for these little rubber connectors ;D, on my vectra with the same engine i just changed all the vaccum hoses for some silicone hoses off ebay (3mm i think) and just pushed them striaght on, no need for the connectors with the silicon hoses.

when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 18:51:28
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 18:53:39
With the swirl flaps activated, the engine won't rev beyond about 2k, it just misses as if its running on 3, and belches smoke. Not sure why this would be, as the inlet air should be fast enough by that rpm for the extra inlet valve to work  :-\
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 March 2014, 19:05:08
From memory, it boosts up to 2.2 on the old turbo (or up to about 2.6 with the vac pump directly connected to the wastegate ::)). Would need to recheck with the replacement turbo.

Any value in taking a snapshot on a 0-60 dash?

Next time you've got an evening spare. ::)

Sounds like the boost is present and correct-ish, then. You at least have enough for that not to be the performance issue. Fuel volume / timing might be the culprit?

Not really had much time debugging tractors, so just speculating, really.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 19:05:36
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

Not needed.

Idealy you would have a priming bulb in the fuel filter fuel feed line but, you simply crack the high pressure injector pipes and crank for short intervals with half plus throttle applied until you see fuel from the lines. Then nip up and away you go.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 19:07:27
With the swirl flaps activated, the engine won't rev beyond about 2k, it just misses as if its running on 3, and belches smoke. Not sure why this would be, as the inlet air should be fast enough by that rpm for the extra inlet valve to work  :-\

Interesting, I cant recall if activated is 12V mode or 16V mode. If 12V mode then it makes sense as the air is very restricted.

That might tell us a story though......as it sounds like something is limiting the air input......somewhere.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: anddyy88 on 18 March 2014, 19:10:04
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

yea has to be bled only need a a priming tool
one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-diesel-fuel-pump-priming-tool-8mm-5-16/77865 (http://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-diesel-fuel-pump-priming-tool-8mm-5-16/77865)
and a video of how to do it, on a vectra but same way to bleed
http://vimeo.com/52381811 (http://vimeo.com/52381811)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: anddyy88 on 18 March 2014, 19:11:42
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

Not needed.

Idealy you would have a priming bulb in the fuel filter fuel feed line but, you simply crack the high pressure injector pipes and crank for short intervals with half plus throttle applied until you see fuel from the lines. Then nip up and away you go.

ive tried this way on 3 different cars with the dti engine and cracking the high pressure pipes never seems to work for me
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 19:20:16
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

Not needed.

Idealy you would have a priming bulb in the fuel filter fuel feed line but, you simply crack the high pressure injector pipes and crank for short intervals with half plus throttle applied until you see fuel from the lines. Then nip up and away you go.

ive tried this way on 3 different cars with the dti engine and cracking the high pressure pipes never seems to work for me

Interesting, never failed for me as long as its only the high pressure lines you touch.

If you touch the pump feeds or drain the pump then its a big issue
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 19:20:23
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

Not needed.

Idealy you would have a priming bulb in the fuel filter fuel feed line but, you simply crack the high pressure injector pipes and crank for short intervals with half plus throttle applied until you see fuel from the lines. Then nip up and away you go.
At the injector end? That's how TIS suggests bleeding Omega TDs.

Lots of scare stories on tinterweb about shagging VP44 pumps by not properly bleeding.

Worth changing leak-offs as a matter of course anyway. I can probably pick up leak-off for a quid or 2 per meter, and suspect 1m would be enough?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: anddyy88 on 18 March 2014, 19:30:44
I got a meter length off vauxhall and had plenty left over, if your changing leak offs get new tee peices as there very brittle even new.

Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: martin42 on 18 March 2014, 20:13:34
If you want a hand at the weekend tb let me know :y
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 20:39:52
If you want a hand at the weekend tb let me know :y
At the weekend, if the bastard works, it will be one a 200 mile trip up north for a week.  Butt cheeks will be clenched more than when Gixer is around ;D
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 March 2014, 20:47:28
Get yourself a priming bulb ordered for fitting to make bleeding much easier (and vastly reduces drain back to the tank)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Andy H on 18 March 2014, 20:59:31
As we now know the Turbo is boosting (at least without load) well, I would be checking:

1) All solenoids by bypassing them all at the same time (thought being that if a single solenoid is faulty or leaking vac, it would not show up on the test we did but might affect the operation is a second is then enabled). This probably requries the turbo and swirl flaps actuators needing a direct supply and the EGR getting no supply.

2) Intercooler to inlet pipe - its the only one we didn't remove so wants checking, I would also liked to have removed and pressure tested the intercooler but as you know, it would not come out easily.
If it is a pain to get at then you just know it has to be the culprit.............. (only I think you will find it is partially blocked rather than leaking.)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 18 March 2014, 21:15:09
Get yourself a priming bulb ordered for fitting to make bleeding much easier (and vastly reduces drain back to the tank)
None of the ShitFix around here have that one mentioned earlier in stock. Should I not attempt swirl flap clean before I go away, or do it and hope it will bled by cracking the pipe at the injectors?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 14:02:34
The thing behaved (albeit it with far less than the claimed 100bhp) impeccably on holiday in Yorkshire. Some of the hills were, errr, "challenging", but otherwise no issues.

Driving home, the EML kept popping on. Fuel in it at the time was Esso, though doubt that makes a difference.  Only thing I can think of was it was much warmer than it had been all week, as Spring had arrived ;D

Only other thing, given Yorkshire has no dual carriageways or motorways, it barely went above 50-60mph all week up there. Once on the motorway network coming home, ramming speed was reached.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 14:03:45
Also, coming home it was fully laden with 4 adults and a bootload of luggage, so would be under more load
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: martin42 on 30 March 2014, 14:08:06
Give it some millers diesel additive,used to use it in my dti and did help  :y
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 14:09:56
Give it some millers diesel additive,used to use it in my dti and did help  :y
It had Diesel Magic a couple of tanks ago
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 30 March 2014, 18:03:26
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

Not needed.

Idealy you would have a priming bulb in the fuel filter fuel feed line but, you simply crack the high pressure injector pipes and crank for short intervals with half plus throttle applied until you see fuel from the lines. Then nip up and away you go.

ive tried this way on 3 different cars with the dti engine and cracking the high pressure pipes never seems to work for me

Interesting, never failed for me as long as its only the high pressure lines you touch.

If you touch the pump feeds or drain the pump then its a big issue

Do these engines not self bleed?

I know on the 1.9 trafic i had, there was a bleed bulb by the pump to bleed it (rubbish fuel gauge on these, meant i ran out of fuel a few times  ::) )

But on the 2.0 passat, you just seem to have to crank it over and it will start after about 30secs ..
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 19:36:55
Do these engines not self bleed?
Most definitely not. Attempting to start with no fuel quickly shags the pump, as the diesel fuel is the only lubrication.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 19:37:33
So, would it be safe to change the leak-offs without any facilities to bleed the pump?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 30 March 2014, 19:48:14
Do these engines not self bleed?
Most definitely not. Attempting to start with no fuel quickly shags the pump, as the diesel fuel is the only lubrication.

Ah ok  :y

I guess theres not a tank pick up pump in these then.....as thats when i discovered the passat will start if you keep cranking after it had to have a new tank pump....
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 19:57:07
Do these engines not self bleed?
Most definitely not. Attempting to start with no fuel quickly shags the pump, as the diesel fuel is the only lubrication.

Ah ok  :y

I guess theres not a tank pick up pump in these then.....as thats when i discovered the passat will start if you keep cranking after it had to have a new tank pump....
I believe there is a lift pump, but airlocks are problematic.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Andy H on 30 March 2014, 20:10:33
With the swirl flaps activated, the engine won't rev beyond about 2k, it just misses as if its running on 3, and belches smoke. Not sure why this would be, as the inlet air should be fast enough by that rpm for the extra inlet valve to work  :-\
Have you cleaned out the intercooler yet?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 30 March 2014, 20:11:16
Do these engines not self bleed?
Most definitely not. Attempting to start with no fuel quickly shags the pump, as the diesel fuel is the only lubrication.

Ah ok  :y

I guess theres not a tank pick up pump in these then.....as thats when i discovered the passat will start if you keep cranking after it had to have a new tank pump....
I believe there is a lift pump, but airlocks are problematic.

Maybe the pump only pumps for a few seconds then  :-\
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 20:22:04
With the swirl flaps activated, the engine won't rev beyond about 2k, it just misses as if its running on 3, and belches smoke. Not sure why this would be, as the inlet air should be fast enough by that rpm for the extra inlet valve to work  :-\
Have you cleaned out the intercooler yet?
Nope, that's one of tomorrows jobs. Looks like bumper has to come off?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: martin42 on 30 March 2014, 20:23:39
Wonder if the timing is out a bit,if pump has been replaced in the past.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2014, 20:25:43
Wonder if the timing is out a bit,if pump has been replaced in the past.
Can't imagine anyone would ever change a pump, you'd scrap the thing instead...

...I have a gut feeling, unscientific, unproven, undiagnosed, just pure gut feeling that the fuel pump is shafted. Which I suspect means it will become baked bean tins  :'(
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2014, 17:33:21
Found out that she needs a car tomorrow, and with the MV6 off the road, didn't want to start ripping off bumpers at this late stage in the day, so still haven't checked intercooler  :-[
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2014, 17:34:37
When I do get it off, what do I do, just pour oil out? Clean it, if so what with?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Andy H on 31 March 2014, 19:35:06
When I do get it off, what do I do, just pour oil out? Clean it, if so what with?

Land Rover TDis are prone to blocked up intercoolers. Two guides here (usual caveats apply about stuff you read on the internet...)

http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=intercooler+cleaning (http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=intercooler+cleaning)

http://www.discovery2.co.uk/intercooler.html (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/intercooler.html)

Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 31 March 2014, 20:16:55
When I do get it off, what do I do, just pour oil out? Clean it, if so what with?

Land Rover TDis are prone to blocked up intercoolers. Two guides here (usual caveats apply about stuff you read on the internet...)

http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=intercooler+cleaning (http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=intercooler+cleaning)

http://www.discovery2.co.uk/intercooler.html (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/intercooler.html)
So solvents like white spirit :y. Ta
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: henryd on 31 March 2014, 20:22:02
When I do get it off, what do I do, just pour oil out? Clean it, if so what with?

Land Rover TDis are prone to blocked up intercoolers. Two guides here (usual caveats apply about stuff you read on the internet...)

http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=intercooler+cleaning (http://forum.lro.com/viewtopic.php?t=1811&highlight=intercooler+cleaning)

http://www.discovery2.co.uk/intercooler.html (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/intercooler.html)
So solvents like white spirit :y. Ta

Brake cleaner is pretty good too,it'll dry without leaving any residue,make sure it is dry though before starting up as it's like rocket fuel to a diseasel  :o
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2014, 09:35:49
Do these engines not self bleed?
Most definitely not. Attempting to start with no fuel quickly shags the pump, as the diesel fuel is the only lubrication.

Thats true of all diesel pumps.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2014, 09:37:04
Do these engines not self bleed?
Most definitely not. Attempting to start with no fuel quickly shags the pump, as the diesel fuel is the only lubrication.

Ah ok  :y

I guess theres not a tank pick up pump in these then.....as thats when i discovered the passat will start if you keep cranking after it had to have a new tank pump....
I believe there is a lift pump, but airlocks are problematic.

No lift pump on VP44 setups and hence the issue in bleeding and hence the recommendation I have made for years about ALWAYS fitting a priming bulb to these setups (from any of the manufacturers).

The diesel also cools the power transistors in the pump electronics.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2014, 09:39:10
when was the last time the inlet manifold/swirl flaps cleaned out, i found it made a huge difference to mine when it was cleaned , messy job but well worth it to get the power back and helped reduce turbo lag a bit.
Probably never. TIS implies that the pump has to be bled with KM948 once the injection pipes have been off, which means its not something I can currently do.

Not needed.

Idealy you would have a priming bulb in the fuel filter fuel feed line but, you simply crack the high pressure injector pipes and crank for short intervals with half plus throttle applied until you see fuel from the lines. Then nip up and away you go.

ive tried this way on 3 different cars with the dti engine and cracking the high pressure pipes never seems to work for me

Interesting, never failed for me as long as its only the high pressure lines you touch.

If you touch the pump feeds or drain the pump then its a big issue

Do these engines not self bleed?

I know on the 1.9 trafic i had, there was a bleed bulb by the pump to bleed it (rubbish fuel gauge on these, meant i ran out of fuel a few times  ::) )

But on the 2.0 passat, you just seem to have to crank it over and it will start after about 30secs ..

Comon rail setups (2.0 crapat) have a lift pump, what you should do is turn the ignition on and listen for the pump, it will time out after 10-20 seconds or so, then ignition off, repeat 3-4 times and then start.

Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 01 April 2014, 19:59:24
Intercooler cleaned with carb cleaner. What a R-sole of a job to get the frecker out  >:(

(http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/battlesbus/BattlebusIntercoolerRemoval.jpg)


Doubt it'll make a difference as I couldn't get anything out, and it felt nice and light.  I did take it for a quick spin, but every retard was doing 30-40mph around all the lanes.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: chrisgixer on 01 April 2014, 20:32:59
Look. Gay gloves ;D
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 07 April 2014, 08:21:29
As we were out and about in it yesterday (needed the boot space), we were joking about it's (lack of) performance, and as we got onto the motorway, we wondered if it would get to 70 by the end of the slip road, neither of us thought it would. But it did :o

So I kept my foot hard down (yes, I know Mr DTM, but gives more consistent results) for several miles just to see if a good thrashing would help clear its throat.

Speed was more than I'd seen out of it before, esp after a long downhill section, but after a while, and more prominent on uphill sections, you could feel the power surging in and out, very rhythmically, about once every second or 2.  I'd say this was the same sensation or the surging that MDTM felt driving around at low revs, that was initially cured with a replacement, pattern MAF (that low speed surging has returned slightly, nowhere near as bad, when labouring around 1500rpm). As per the low rev labouring surging, lifting throttle slightly, and it went.

Does that shed any more ideas?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Omegatoy on 07 April 2014, 20:24:35
Hmm just a possibility here,
sounds like its been tootling around town at low revs most of its life and always run on cheap supermarket fuel? try couple of tanks of "super diesel" see if it helps,also add a 500ml bottle of synthetic 2stroke oil on every fill up, will lubricate the pump much better than crap diesel sold now
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Jimbob on 08 April 2014, 09:34:44
Theres several of us on here adding 250 ml 2 stroke to a tank of diesel, makes a noticable difference.
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 08 April 2014, 19:48:51
Hmm just a possibility here,
sounds like its been tootling around town at low revs most of its life and always run on cheap supermarket fuel? try couple of tanks of "super diesel" see if it helps,also add a 500ml bottle of synthetic 2stroke oil on every fill up, will lubricate the pump much better than crap diesel sold now
I don't think that's the problem here, I think there is a genuine fault going on. Well, faults. Turbo was definitely shagged. MAF was definitely not reading correctly, probably contaminated by the amount of shite thrown forward into the intake from the turbo when coming off the power :o
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 08 April 2014, 19:49:43
I have tried branded fuel, but not the V-Power types. Will try a couple of gallons when next empty. Will also try a spot of 2 stroke afterwards
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Stemo on 08 April 2014, 20:07:21
Where is this thread going? The original title says that a GM 2.0 Dti is lacking power. And? What's new?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: tunnie on 08 April 2014, 20:09:26
After all the power jokes he's made about my 2.2, mines a Monaro VXR in comparison to his battle bus.  ;D

 
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Andy H on 08 April 2014, 20:17:13
Does it smoke when you give it full throttle?

Are you able to read live values for
- manifold/boost pressure?
- quantity of fuel injected?

My thinking is that if it is injecting enough fuel but not producing enough power then it will smoke.

If the ECU is asking for maximum fuel but there is no smoke then that might point to a pump problem.

If the ECU isn't asking for maximum fuel then why not?
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 09 April 2014, 18:38:38
Where is this thread going? The original title says that a GM 2.0 Dti is lacking power. And? What's new?
No, this one is really lacking power. Its the slowest thing I've ever owned. And I've owned a Nova :P
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 09 April 2014, 18:39:37
Does it smoke when you give it full throttle?

Are you able to read live values for
- manifold/boost pressure?
- quantity of fuel injected?

My thinking is that if it is injecting enough fuel but not producing enough power then it will smoke.

If the ECU is asking for maximum fuel but there is no smoke then that might point to a pump problem.

If the ECU isn't asking for maximum fuel then why not?
At full chat, you can see smoke in mirror in daylight. So I guess its smoking like a bastard
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 09 April 2014, 18:40:23
After all the power jokes he's made about my 2.2, mines a Monaro VXR in comparison to his battle bus.  ;D
Working properly, I'm happy for a test, man versus boy ;)
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: TheBoy on 09 April 2014, 18:40:56
After all the power jokes he's made about my 2.2, mines a Monaro VXR in comparison to his battle bus.  ;D
Working properly, I'm happy for a test, man versus boy ;)
I'll need corners to make up for no power, though
Title: Re: GM 2.0DTi lacking power
Post by: Andy H on 09 April 2014, 20:34:35
Does it smoke when you give it full throttle?

Are you able to read live values for
- manifold/boost pressure?
- quantity of fuel injected?

My thinking is that if it is injecting enough fuel but not producing enough power then it will smoke.

If the ECU is asking for maximum fuel but there is no smoke then that might point to a pump problem.

If the ECU isn't asking for maximum fuel then why not?
At full chat, you can see smoke in mirror in daylight. So I guess its smoking like a bastard
So it isn't burning all the fuel it can get. :-\
3 possible causes I can think of
1- not enough air (I was convinced it was going to be the intercooler.)
2- poor injector spray pattern
3- incorrect pump/cam timing