Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: cd 2.2 on 18 March 2014, 20:38:37
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Well I have made the decision that I have thrown too much money at this car in the last month of owning it to give up with the old girl, But my god is it trying my patience ::)
List of new parts and things done to date (since 22nd jan this year) are as follows:
Cylinder head gasket repair that consisted of, 16 thousands of an inch head skim, new head bolts, all top end gaskets including valve stem seals, re-grind of all 16 valves, oil and filter change, new Gates powerGrip timing belt and tensioners, new water pump, full cleaning of the EGR and breather system (including throttle body and inlet manifold clean) and new head bolts!
After she was running again I then found other underlying issues with the engine so went on to replace the MAF sensor, air filter, rubber tubes on the coil pack, Thermostat and housing (then had to fit the old housing because of the new part failing), HBV as it was leaking badly and Then most recently had to fit the new radiator due to the old unit physically Exploding.
During the most recent repairs I found that the Gearbox oil cooler was leaking somewhere around the pipes that feed to it and had to top up the gearbox due to poor shifting and it being low on oil. I have still to get to the bottom of the gearbox issue as after 30 miles the rough/missed 3rd gear is back again!
Today has really cheesed me off ... Went over to town which is about 7 miles and noticed that theres a slight, what appears to be a misfire ??? It's only doing this at idle speeds and low road speeds but isn't throwing a code up or putting the EML on!
It's definitely a problem as it's impacting economy (0.2 gal/h to 0.3gal/h on idle and from 26mpg around town it's dropped to 24mpg)! Out of panic I have checked for any signs of HGF .. No oil in water and vise versa also not gassing back into expansion tank, I think that rules that out then :-X
Now I'm thinking that it must be the camshaft sensor as it's the only other "real" plausible thing to do that hasn't already been changed (especially with it being a 2.2 petrol)! I'm completely at a loss really, Am I even barking up the right tree?
I really want to keep this car for a long time, but my god it's fighting it :D
Cheers Graham
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Any codes, as EML has come on?
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Any codes, as EML has come on?
No code, No EML ??? ???
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Well I have made the decision that I have thrown too much money at this car in the last month of owning it to give up with the old girl, But my god is it trying my patience ::)
List of new parts and things done to date (since 22nd jan this year) are as follows:
Cylinder head gasket repair that consisted of, 16 thousands of an inch head skim, new head bolts, all top end gaskets including valve stem seals, re-grind of all 16 valves, oil and filter change, new Gates powerGrip timing belt and tensioners, new water pump, full cleaning of the EGR and breather system (including throttle body and inlet manifold clean) and new head bolts!
After she was running again I then found other underlying issues with the engine so went on to replace the MAF sensor, air filter, rubber tubes on the coil pack, Thermostat and housing (then had to fit the old housing because of the new part failing), HBV as it was leaking badly and Then most recently had to fit the new radiator due to the old unit physically Exploding.
During the most recent repairs I found that the Gearbox oil cooler was leaking somewhere around the pipes that feed to it and had to top up the gearbox due to poor shifting and it being low on oil. I have still to get to the bottom of the gearbox issue as after 30 miles the rough/missed 3rd gear is back again!
Today has really cheesed me off ... Went over to town which is about 7 miles and noticed that theres a slight, what appears to be a misfire ??? It's only doing this at idle speeds and low road speeds but isn't throwing a code up or putting the EML on!
It's definitely a problem as it's impacting economy (0.2 gal/h to 0.3gal/h on idle and from 26mpg around town it's dropped to 24mpg)! Out of panic I have checked for any signs of HGF .. No oil in water and vise versa also not gassing back into expansion tank, I think that rules that out then :-X
Now I'm thinking that it must be the camshaft sensor as it's the only other "real" plausible thing to do that hasn't already been changed (especially with it being a 2.2 petrol)! I'm completely at a loss really, Am I even barking up the right tree?
I really want to keep this car for a long time, but my god it's fighting it :D
Cheers Graham
Coilpack maybe :-\
Although when mine started doing what your is doing it did give a code.
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Any codes, as EML has come on?
No code, No EML ??? ???
Soz, misread OP, though you said it was bringing on EML :-[
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Thats the thing ... no fault code makes me think more towards early cam sensor failure ???
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Thats the thing ... no fault code makes me think more towards early cam sensor failure ???
I'm less convinced.
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Any codes, as EML has come on?
No code, No EML ??? ???
Does the EML come on with the ignition? It won't be on if no bulb in it :-\
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Thats the thing ... no fault code makes me think more towards early cam sensor failure ???
When my Cam sensor failed on same car, it gave loads of stray codes
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Thats the thing ... no fault code makes me think more towards early cam sensor failure ???
When my Cam sensor failed on same car, it gave loads of stray codes
Does funny things to the slushbox as well iirc :-\
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Any codes, as EML has come on?
No code, No EML ??? ???
Does the EML come on with the ignition? It won't be on if no bulb in it :-\
EML comes on with ignition, I just double checked ... Marks DTM Calib has said he will run the Tech 2 on it for me for £20 (including checking g/box level for me), I'm guessing that's the best option and he sounds like a top bloke ... well trusted here too :y
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Bargain..
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don't rule out the coil pack mate, mine had some odd symptoms when it started to go, like a miss only between 800-1200 rpm but fine otherwise and would occasionaly drop a cylinder altogether.
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don't rule out the coil pack mate, mine had some odd symptoms when it started to go, like a miss only between 800-1200 rpm but fine otherwise and would occasionally drop a cylinder altogether.
That's kind of exactly as mine is behaving (at 700 - 1000 rpm, idle speed and setting off)... it's becoming worse REALLY fast!
If it's the coil pack though how would I test it first before replacing it ?? My dad's away for a while and he has his coil pack with him on his car lol ;D
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....
and he sounds like a top bloke ... well trusted here too :y
He's OK ....... ::) ::) ::) ;) :y
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As to the leak on your gearbox oil cooler pipework, have you checked the block connector on the top left of the radiator? there are two small 'O' rings in there & they are easily misplaced or damaged if the connector has been removed to renew the radiator. Worth checking :y
Sorry, just noticed this was mentioned yesterday :-[ ;D
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Any codes, as EML has come on?
No code, No EML ??? ???
Does the EML come on with the ignition? It won't be on if no bulb in it :-\
EML comes on with ignition, I just double checked ... Marks DTM Calib has said he will run the Tech 2 on it for me for £20 (including checking g/box level for me), I'm guessing that's the best option and he sounds like a top bloke ... well trusted here too :y
I can't recommend him highly enough :y.
The coil pack, remove it (dead easy on a 2.2 - as you know if you've had the head off!), and look for signs of corrosion around the area where the coils are (bulky bit at top). If they are excessively cracked, or show signs of swelling or rust coming out of the cracks, they are toast. Its not unusual to see hairline cracks on older coilpacks, which is probably how the corrosion starts, but IME, its only once the signs above appear do they cause trouble.
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There are a few very small rectangular holes (look like there brass or something similar), These holes are mostly O.k but a few of them (3 iirc) look rusty :-\
Does this mean that the pack is most likely dead then? And how much should I be paying for a new one?? I have had quotes around the £109 + Vat mark, This is just another job on the list .... Thinking about running it till the test is up and going from there with it at this moment in time (July 4th)! If the work is going to be too expensive it may be end of the road for me with this car after all :'( would replace with a V6 though
Jobs I know that need doing for the test are as follows:
Both front arms, it's starting to swerve around under braking and is getting more and more noticeable!
Both front wheel bearings as N/s has tons of play in it and I like to change in pairs!
Exhaust needs full replacement as every joint is blowing, the manifold has a crack in it and the pipe the cat is on, well it's dead! It will not get through the test as it stands :(
All of the brakes need changing as they have seen better days. They look like they have been on for a good few years!
Rear shocks have started to knock when you go over bumps, so most likely need replacing
Rear tyres are needed desperately as they are on the edge of legal, But the rear locking wheel nuts need to be removed first. This will ruin the wheels, just like the front ones have been
I know that all this is going to cost more than replacing the car with another mig ... But I will be sad to see her go if that ends up being the choice that I make
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There are a few very small rectangular holes (look like there brass or something similar), These holes are mostly O.k but a few of them (3 iirc) look rusty :-\
Does this mean that the pack is most likely dead then? And how much should I be paying for a new one?? I have had quotes around the £109 + Vat mark, This is just another job on the list .... Thinking about running it till the test is up and going from there with it at this moment in time (July 4th)! If the work is going to be too expensive it may be end of the road for me with this car after all :'( would replace with a V6 though
Jobs I know that need doing for the test are as follows:
Both front arms, it's starting to swerve around under braking and is getting more and more noticeable!
Both front wheel bearings as N/s has tons of play in it and I like to change in pairs!
Exhaust needs full replacement as every joint is blowing, the manifold has a crack in it and the pipe the cat is on, well it's dead! It will not get through the test as it stands :(
All of the brakes need changing as they have seen better days. They look like they have been on for a good few years!
Rear shocks have started to knock when you go over bumps, so most likely need replacing
Rear tyres are needed desperately as they are on the edge of legal, But the rear locking wheel nuts need to be removed first. This will ruin the wheels, just like the front ones have been
I know that all this is going to cost more than replacing the car with another mig ... But I will be sad to see her go if that ends up being the choice that I make
Around £90
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Post up a pic of the CP, we can advise :y
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At last the EML light came on and the car started misfiring badly ;D ... Funny how seeing this little yellow warning lamp coming on can be such a relief! Car started misfiring badly shortly afterwards, so yet again, in true Omega style, off with the coil pack :D
It was arcing on # 2 & 3 tubes, Turns out that the new (second hand) tubes I got were not that good after all. .. A quick smear of loctite black gasket stuff on the affected areas has sorted the problem, that is, until I get the new ones with springs from Vx for about £40 ::) Far cheaper than a new coil pack :y
Every time I think I'm getting to the end of my patience with this car it always has a way of redeeming itself! I think by the time I'm finished I will have rebuilt the car completely, And throughout the whole process I still can't say what one thing makes me like it so much ???
I have lost the ability to post pictures as I have misplaced the camera ... I know it's in the damn house somewhere >:(
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11 out of 10 for effort on this one mate :y
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Yet more woes today with my "wonderful"
crap heap car :D
All was going fine after replacing the coil pack tubes with the new ones (and the springs), they only cost me £15 + VAT from Vx which I thought was a good price! Until I stopped off at Tesco for the better half (I'm going to stop going there it always breaks the car). Went in and did the shopping, Came back to the car and went to start it ..... Engine turned over a few times then Backfired a couple of times ??? Tried it again after a few seconds and it just turned and turned but didn't start ??? ??? Finally on the third attempt it started up after a couple of backfires but the EML was on and power was down ??? ??? ???
During the drive home the EML went back off and it picked back up again which was confusing ... Later in the day I went to my dad's house and it started fine for the drive down with no drama and got me there no worries!! That is until I wanted to go home ... Total repeat of the above shenanigans only worse! Got home and the EML is still on and I have no clue as to what's causing the issue, I do know that there is a chance of it not starting again in the morning that's for sure >:(
I have checked all connectors relating to the camshaft sensor and the crank sensor, also had the coil pack out and inspected it (nothing visually wrong)!
I'm thinking this could be the Crankshaft position sensor or the camshaft sensor, It is a 2.2 FL petrol and it's has covered now nearly 118k .... But would this cause the backfiring?? It's had a full set of GM spark plugs from the dealer less than 60 miles ago and I have renewed the CCV gasket as that was leaking badly and obviously the new coil pack parts !!
What else would cause a backfire while trying to start ? I have noticed also that the catalytic convertor has become extremely rattly on cold starts also and overall economy is down a smidge from the norm! I replaced the head gasket, timing belt with tensioner, MAF sensor and water pump at 116086 miles (14/02/2014) and have very recently replaced the radiator with a brand new one and flushed the coolant system, adding a fresh dose of OAT coolant!
Any suggestions before I lose the rest of my hair??
Cheers Graham
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Your starting issues is an almost exact copy of the problems my 2.2 had about 2 years ago. >:(
Try & start by turning the engine over & loads of fuel are in the chambers, but no spark because the cam sensor is toast. This eventually throws up the orange engine light & the car on about the third time off trying, fires the petrol rich mixture. I had the occasional pop bang you describe & the following drive got the cat rattlin. I got this confirmed by a lad at work with a code reader & it was the Cam position sensor code. Cost was about £65 & GM part number is 90520850.
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At least that's the easy sensor to change ::)
I guess this is common on the 2.2 petrol engines then ? I find it comforting that you have instantly jumped to the cause of the problem I have been having as you've experienced it yourself before! Was your failed cam sensor sudden or did it creep in gradually ? Mine has only been noticeably a problem "after" the cat started to rattle ???
Many thanks Graham ;)
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I can but offer sympathy. If you do all the jobs listed that need doing you will spend more money than the car is worth, or than you would pay for a decent similar car on e-bay.
Your current fault could be cam sensor and/or crank sensor. Buying genuine Vx they will cost £60 plus each. Cam sensor easy to change, crank sensor less so. Good luck!
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You ask if camsensor/cranksensor can cause misfire/backfires .. the answer is YES...... with great ease!
Those two devices between them tell the ECU exactly when to fire the "spark" .. the crank sensor says if it is the power or exhaust stroke, the camsensor says exactly where, in relation to TDC the system is ..t he ECU decides how much advance/retard the ignition needs and then "ping" fires the spark and ignition occurs ..... when its all working properly.....
If the cranksensor/camsensor don't impart the CORRECT info, the ECU will assume the info is OK and fire the spark accordingly .. if this spark occurs very late the fuel mixture may have been completely missed so it didn't ignite in the cylinder (missing) but if the exhaust valve is still open it may ignite in the exhaust pipe (backfire). If the spark occurs very early (BTDC) then the act of ignition will actually slow down the piston instead of accelerating it causing a percieved dramatic loss of power ... and that's only once the engine is running .... actually starting with the spark in the "wrong" place will be extremely difficult .....
So your symptoms very easily fit the camsensor/cranksensor scenario ... exactly which one of the pair it is though .. more difficult to diagnose ... :(
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I think I've had more than enough with this car now ... Every single thing I fix (at big cost I might add) 2 other things break almost immediately! I'm trying not to get all Mr Angry about it but OMG it takes the p[ss!
I'm thinking of selling the hunk of junk after I've now spent above £600 in repairs as I think it needs far too much for it's M.O.T
The list of needs is as follows :
Rear locking nuts removing as the tyres are approaching dead. Front ones had to be air chiseled off!
Front wishbones
All brakes
Definitely a Catalytic convertor as it's rattling, Most likely the whole system
Gearbox cooler O rings replacing (these are on order) and the gearbox topping up
Front N/s wheel bearing, possibly both sides though
CCV is leaking AGAIN after fitting new gasket so needs re-sealing or replacement
Stupid sensors replacing cam/crank or both
It's a nice looking old bus but I'm not willing to spend any more cash on it, If I spend anymore it would be foolish of me. I can replace the car for what needs to be spent ... Maybe with an Mv6 to be fair ! I'm going to put it up for sale for around the £300 mark I think and if it doesn't sell maybe scrap the thing before it gives me an aneurysm
Can't really put it in the for sale section as I have lost the camera and won't be able to add pictures! But I doubt anyone will even be remotely interested at the price I'm asking for it
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:P :P I,ii start the bidding at packet of jelly babies & a curly wurly (feeling flush after my recent lottery win £25)
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Lol ... not quite that desperate yet :D
I think it's a major case of new project blues ::) I will take on such hopeless basket cases and it's sometimes good to rant about it all to get it out of your system!
Light at the end of the dismal tunnel it does seem though, Dad has announced that he is changing cars in June for something easier to get in to! I have been told that I can "have" his mig for free :y This car has had allot of cash spent on it and aside it's sick engine, caused by the garage that repaired his HGF it has all of the parts that I need to keep mine going for a long time! It may help some other Oof members out too, we will see when it happens what the ultimate decisions are!
I spent the largest and most miserable (weather wise) part of the day in the breakers yard looking for a camshaft sensor! I didn't find one but I did notice that there is, What looks like a 2.5 td manual in the yard breaking. I think it's a gray/blue CDX but most of the panels are there still and some of the cloth interior is left along with most of the engine .... might be good to someone for parts. The breakers yard is Deatons Metal Centre, Lowgates, Staveley Tel: 01246 474252 (opt 2 for car spares)
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Firstly, stop replacing dodgy sensors with second hand crap from breakers...
Secondly, apart from the head gasket, which I presume you knew about before buying the car, nothing on your list is beyond normal items that every cheaply bought Omega would need replacing in the first couple of months of ownership/for the first MoT...
Love your Omega right, and it will reward you like a friendly retriever
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At least that's the easy sensor to change ::)
I guess this is common on the 2.2 petrol engines then ? I find it comforting that you have instantly jumped to the cause of the problem I have been having as you've experienced it yourself before! Was your failed cam sensor sudden or did it creep in gradually ? Mine has only been noticeably a problem "after" the cat started to rattle ???
Many thanks Graham ;)
over a period of about a month, the car went from randomly refusing to start, to becoming a daily problem. With weird gear changes & falling fuel consumption problems. I think someone who knows how to use a code reader & analyse the live data output is essential.
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Firstly, stop replacing dodgy sensors with second hand crap from breakers...
Secondly, apart from the head gasket, which I presume you knew about before buying the car, nothing on your list is beyond normal items that every cheaply bought Omega would need replacing in the first couple of months of ownership/for the first MoT...
Love your Omega right, and it will reward you like a friendly retriever
Thanks Al ... I have been told :P The only reason I was wanting a second hand sensor was to try and get me by until my next lot of available funds arrive ::) Lesson learned (the hard way I must say)!
I do love my Omega to bits, I really do. But sometimes it can be a little bit testing when everything breaks in the same week! I only want to use GM parts after my experience with the pattern parts available ... that is unless it's something really special, like a set of wheels or something along those lines! This in itself makes things a little more costly and I do feel the need for an ABS membership maybe for easy access to trade club prices ::)
And hey you guys help to give me the motivation to keep on plodding along, this is very needed sometimes :y
I unfortunately seem to have caught some kind of illness from the Oof site though :'( I'm considering the purchase of a late (52 reg) GLS 2.2 16v Manual, it looks in fairly good order and is full of base spec charm in a way no other car than a Vx can offer ... It would be as a second car so as I can run the auto for 6 months and then the manual for 6 months throughout the year, this would give both cars a good spell of dry stored repair