Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 09 December 2014, 21:42:10
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... how vulnerable Britain is! :o and so do we for that matter! >:(
After a periscope was spotted off the coast of western Scotland last month, Britain had to call on NATO for assistance as we do not have anti submarine aircraft any more, so the Yanks, Canadians and French flew in to the rescue. ::) How they must have laughed! :(
At about the same time a Russian fleet of 4 vessels passed through the English Channel and were monitored by an offshore patrol boat more accustomed to fishery protection work. ::) Our only available warship was submarine hunting in Scotland at the time. :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30398114
It's a little worrying if you ask me. :-\
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You forget Capn Mainwaring and his band were also monitoring those ships. No need to panic 8)
If you want to worry about something then the plight of the collapsing Russian economy at a time when they are spending more of their GDP on weapons and their armed forces is your focus. Today they were propping up the collapsing Rouble . All down to the Wests(that is us folks) sanctions and the price of oil plummetting.
Bum pucker factor 9 . :-[
PS. Rods2 please come back.
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We are a pathetic, embarrassing little island, yet we still think we have clout around the world. We already know, from secret recordings, what the yanks think of us, God knows what the Russians think.
Even Mugabe mocks us at every opportunity.
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Absolute 'dangle berries'.
If we were at all susceptible to anything major, the Queen or her offspring would be dead by now.
Get a grip.
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No comment. :-X :-X :-X
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Don`t we have some Naval air power knocking about somewhere ??? Oh Fixed wing ASW......... nope your right there & all the naval combat fixed wing are gone.
Merlin helo could have dashed up there I suppose, I think they can be fitted with midair refuelling probe, but none I`ve seen have it fitted.
Cold war is over & the west won it. :y
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Sea_King :y :y although not fixed wing it is anti-submarine
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Sea_King :y :y although not fixed wing it is anti-submarine
Oh yer forgot about that one ;D.
At one of the Naval days many years ago now, we watched a nice display of a sea king off the round-tower in Old Portsmouth. She was dipping her sonar in the drink & all sorts was flying about. :)
Just about the best Sea Harrier display happened that day too. Sea harrier came hurtling down from the blue, rolled inverted & went out thru the harbour entrance @ about mast height upside down. He pushed up vertically & half rolled off the top of the loop & came back into the habour even lower. He finished off the display by hovering & spraying water everwhere. :y
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Don`t we have some Naval air power knocking about somewhere ??? Oh Fixed wing ASW......... nope your right there & all the naval combat fixed wing are gone.
Merlin helo could have dashed up there I suppose, I think they can be fitted with midair refuelling probe, but none I`ve seen have it fitted.
Cold war is over & the west won it. :y
Cold War is very much alive and kicking. Physical air and sea incursions, Ukraine, Internet, spying, crippling sanctions, turning off gas supplies....
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Cold War is very much alive and kicking. Physical air and sea incursions, Ukraine, Internet, spying, crippling sanctions, turning off gas supplies....
Indeed, and I bet they didn't get that close to our nuclear deterrent unchallenged last time round. :o
Time to poke around the scrapyards to see if we can put a Nimrod back together. ::)
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Cold War is very much alive and kicking. Physical air and sea incursions, Ukraine, Internet, spying, crippling sanctions, turning off gas supplies....
Indeed, and I bet they didn't get that close to our nuclear deterrent unchallenged last time round. :o
Time to poke around the scrapyards to see if we can put a Nimrod back together. ::)
If you find one, dont forget to change the Computer Control Passwords, rumor has it they were all set for GEC default ones.
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Don`t we have some Naval air power knocking about somewhere ??? Oh Fixed wing ASW......... nope your right there & all the naval combat fixed wing are gone.
Merlin helo could have dashed up there I suppose, I think they can be fitted with midair refuelling probe, but none I`ve seen have it fitted.
Cold war is over & the west won it. :y
Cold War is very much alive and kicking. Physical air and sea incursions, Ukraine, Internet, spying, crippling sanctions, turning off gas supplies....
looks like its part 2.
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Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world. But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once. Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!
No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
:)
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Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world. But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once. Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!
No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
:)
A freudian slip? :-\
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Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world. But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once. Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!
No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
:)
A freudian slip? :-\
Yes Steve, it was a combination of both then; hate was in the air and everyone in the Cabinet at the time wore top hats that they threw metaphorically into the war! ;D ;D ;) ;)
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No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.
No we are just a puppet for NATO, Think SSPAR and NMD and as in the old days of the Cold War, we will still be 'hit' first.
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Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world. But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once. Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!
No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
It is a great thing hope but the sad reality is that after the war to end all wars, mankind learnt nothing. We have been killing each other on an epic scale virtually every year without a break somewhere on the planet. Personally I cannot see that ending until we have some form of heaven forbid "world government". Won't be in my time but it will come. Anyone who steps out of line will just be dealt with- end of. People won't care though as they will be busy buzzing about in driverless cars aimlessly texting each other with inaneties e.g Where are you? Don't know How long will you be? Don't know
What is 2+2 ? Don't know. You get the idea.
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No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.
No we are just a puppet for NATO, Think SSPAR and NMD and as in the old days of the Cold War, we will still be 'hit' first.
I hear what you say but we are currently going through nothing like the Cold War. Then we really expected the end like tomorrow! We knew one wrong move by one side or the other would result in the end. We just have'nt got that feeling now, and although the terrorist organisations are scary, they are nothing like the USSR, and certainly current day Russia is far from being at that "Stalinist" level. ;)
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Can but hope. Russia has the most pwerful man in the world at the helm.
Its economy is in freefall.
The Wests sanctions are strangling the country.
It is spending a lot more on its military .
It is flexing its muscles in Eastern Europe.
Regular incursions into the Wests airspace and territorial waters.
It has very sohpisticated Internet probing capabilities.
It has a good network of spies
but you are right no finger poised on the red button
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Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world. But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once. Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!
No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
:)
I must admit, I admire your optimum Liz but honestly you are miles away on this subject :)
Yes, we are 4th iirc in the defence spending league :-\
BUT were does that money go ?
I'll give you a few hints then go do a little research on this :)
The contract given to Bae systems for the 2 carriers. Especially the bit about penalty clauses for cancelling and changing the spec ect.
Also the sack of poo poo that was the SA80 mk1 and how much we had the firstly pay for the original and secondly, how we had to go cap in hand the iirc, heckler and Koch to ask them to turn it into a weapon that works in all conditions.
And even have a look at the out sourcing of maintenance to civilian contractors of our frontline aircraft while forcing / kicking out the lads and lasses who had the REAL knowledge on how to keep them serviceable.
Have a look at the contract for air to air refuelling (Air Tanker)
Nimrod >:(
God knows how many millions on upgrading the Harrier then selling them to the yanks for spare parts >:(
Seriously, I could quote examples all night :(
I wonder how many of the government ministers involved in the setting up of these contracts have a nice place on the board of these companies (in waiting ?)
We don't spend more then most countries, we WASTE more then most countries because of stupid contracts for the old boys network and in back handers >:(
NATO ?
Purely hypothetical but if Putin invaded us tomorrow, we may get some help of the yanks but the rest would shit themselves and turn the other way ;)
United Nations ?
They would send a strongly worded letter then claim we deserve it because Great Britain was a bunch of idiots to some of our colonies ;)
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No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
I don't believe being a member of the United Nations has been of much use to Ukraine or Georgia. ::)
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I've just checked the clock, its five to midnight :-\
http://thebulletin.org/timeline
We have two US air bases near us, The 100th ARW at Mildenhall and 48th fighter wing at Lakenheath so if it all goes pop we wont know much about.
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Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world. But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once. Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!
No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale. I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete. In the mean time we stay strong together
:)
I must admit, I admire your optimum Liz but honestly you are miles away on this subject :)
Yes, we are 4th iirc in the defence spending league :-\
BUT were does that money go ?
I'll give you a few hints then go do a little research on this :)
The contract given to Bae systems for the 2 carriers. Especially the bit about penalty clauses for cancelling and changing the spec ect.
Also the sack of poo poo that was the SA80 mk1 and how much we had the firstly pay for the original and secondly, how we had to go cap in hand the iirc, heckler and Koch to ask them to turn it into a weapon that works in all conditions.
And even have a look at the out sourcing of maintenance to civilian contractors of our frontline aircraft while forcing / kicking out the lads and lasses who had the REAL knowledge on how to keep them serviceable.
Have a look at the contract for air to air refuelling (Air Tanker)
Nimrod >:(
God knows how many millions on upgrading the Harrier then selling them to the yanks for spare parts >:(
Seriously, I could quote examples all night :(
I wonder how many of the government ministers involved in the setting up of these contracts have a nice place on the board of these companies (in waiting ?)
You are absolutely right tigers about the level of waste as in those correct examples given. However that is systematic of the defence procurement system. It has always been like that as threats and politics change along with technological advancement.
There are many more examples than the ones you give, going at least back to the 19th century.The Martello towers built along the southern coast from 1804-8 to defend us from Napoleon but never used in anger, as was the Royal Military Canal, all built at great expense; The Palmerston Forts in the 1860s to defend against a threatening French navy that were built at great expense but in the end were never used; HMS Dreadnought built in 1906 rendered all other warships, included those of the Royal Navy, obsolete, but by 1914 was herself obsolete after new "Dreadnoughts" had been built, including the Queen Elizabeth Class Super Dreadnoughts, at very great cost; these in turn were obsolete by 1940, with air power the new decisive weapon, although still the British Government went ahead and built HMS Vanguard, the last battleship, for almost £12 million in 1946. Due to it being obsolete was decommissioned in 1960, after her life was stretched out a bit to hide a tremendous waste when the country had been in £3 billion in debt in 1945.
So you see if our armed forces are to try and stay one step ahead there will always be "mistakes" made, overspends incurred, and large amounts of waste when investing in British defence. That way we do overall come away with a credible defence arm, the forth largest in the world
As I stated though we must work together with the USA, as with did during WW2, the Cold War, and since generally, within NATO, that does have teeth, although hopefully you and I will never get to see that; 12 Trident missiles streaking up from one submarine alone to wipe out multiple cities. But we must have faith and confidence. The type of confidence Churchill had in 1940 to stand up to the Nazi menace, even though then our military was in fact far weaker than it is now, being complemented by much obsolete equipment, in planes, ships, guns, tanks, and army training. We ARE far stronger now alone, but with the other nations we can be able to stand up to a full assault. :y :y
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If we think that our defence procurement is wasteful, then god knows what the waste within the US military is like given their vast budget. ::)
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If we think that our defence procurement is wasteful, then god knows what the waste within the US military is like given their vast budget. ::)
I reckon that could pay for our entire defence budget!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)
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Reference MOD waste, I don't know whether the situation today is as it was 25 years ago, but career officer postings were of only 2 years duration. It doesn't take much imagination to calculate the impact this had on decision making in, for example, procurement policy. ??? ??? ???
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Reference MOD waste, I don't know whether the situation today is as it was 25 years ago, but career officer postings were of only 2 years duration. It doesn't take much imagination to calculate the impact this had on decision making in, for example, procurement policy. ??? ??? ???
On the rare occasion when you get a good manager in, it takes about 18 months to get everything set straight, leaving six months usefulness prior to the next bright spark coming along and ballsing everything up again because they don't or won't understand how a good system functions... ::)
Happens the world over...
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More Russian activity.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30429349
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though? :-\
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though? :-\
Inflation at 9.4% and they've put interest rates up to 10.5% from 8% in the last few weeks, so with the crash in oil prices and the Rouble, the Russian economy is in dire straights which if it's not hurting ordinary people now it soon will. :-\
Is Putin a wounded bear likely to lash out? :o Possibly, there's nothing like a quick successful war to boost a politicians popularity. It won't be against the Western NATO countries, but I'd be really worried if I lived somewhere like Moldova. :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30431330
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Yep, to keep the people on his side through hard times he'll need someone to apportion blame to. :-\
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Hmmm maybe his outward international arrogance is directly proportionate to his stress level. The more mired he is the more front he puts out.
Not sure what system the Russians have for selecting their leaders but the sooner they exert pressure on Putin internally the better. Probably depends on how drunk the population is to notice. Which doesn't bode well ;D
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though? :-\
Inflation at 9.4% and they've put interest rates up to 10.5% from 8% in the last few weeks, so with the crash in oil prices and the Rouble, the Russian economy is in dire straights which if it's not hurting ordinary people now it soon will. :-\
Is Putin a wounded bear likely to lash out? :o Possibly, there's nothing like a quick successful war to boost a politicians popularity. It won't be against the Western NATO countries, but I'd be really worried if I lived somewhere like Moldova. :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30431330
History has taught us that leaders will "lash out" if domestic politics need covering by "other events" that they can cause. Also we know that when a country requires extra living space or resources for the state, it can lead to engagement in offensive war.
However, Putin has not got sufficient over whelming resources to carry such an offensive off, apart from "local" activity. He cannot mount a huge offensive front across the plains of Russia into Western Europe without severe repercussions militarily, politically, and economically. As I have said before, he is not a Hitler; he would have mounted a well planned military offensive into Western Europe by now, not just a Austrian, Anschluss, type incursion into the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Putin simply has not got the manic ambition, or entranced support of the Russian people for total war. That has never been the case in Russian history, even during Stalin's time, as acquisitions of territory have happened due to third party actions; ie Hitler's invasion of Russian and the subsequent push back by the Russians into Berlin.
Yes, I believe also that as with the USSR in it's latter days, all is about to implode with expenditure exceeding resource and the political will of the people coming forth; we do have global communication and the internet now so Russians are no longer only living on State propaganda, another huge advantage to Hitler. Few Russian's will believe any claim that the Ukraine attacked Russia, as Hitler claimed Poland had attacked German forces.
No, vastly different days now and a new piece of history will be written that will be vastly different than the period of 1933 to 1945.
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though? :-\
Inflation at 9.4% and they've put interest rates up to 10% in the last few weeks, so with the crash in oil prices and the Rouble, the Russian economy is in dire straights which if it's not hurting ordinary people now it soon will. :-\
Make that 17%
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Crikey. What next?
I feel very sorry for Mr man on the Russian Street. Tough times.
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though? :-\
Inflation at 9.4% and they've put interest rates up to 10% in the last few weeks, so with the crash in oil prices and the Rouble, the Russian economy is in dire straights which if it's not hurting ordinary people now it soon will. :-\
Make that 17%
And the people on the street are told it is down to western sanctions - so it is our fault, that worries me, a little............... :-\ :-\
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Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding. It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?
In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.
Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though? :-\
Inflation at 9.4% and they've put interest rates up to 10% in the last few weeks, so with the crash in oil prices and the Rouble, the Russian economy is in dire straights which if it's not hurting ordinary people now it soon will. :-\
Make that 17%
And the people on the street are told it is down to western sanctions - so it is our fault, that worries me, a little............... :-\ :-\
They will be aware of WHY the sanctions are in place, even of they aren't told. What they CHOOSE to believe, rather than actually believe, probably amounts to the same thing though.
Having encountered a few Russians around here and Europe, the realisation that life is not without consequences won't do them any harm at all. Imo. (That's not to say all Russians are the same of course, but certain attitudes do stand out quite often)
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The strange thing about the Russian public is that, the more they get shafted by the actions of their leader, the more they seem to rally behind him. He must have a pretty good propaganda machine working for him. Surely this is an obvious consequence of his actions and the subsequent reaction from the rest of the world, cash from which Russia has grown to rely on?
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Paging Rods2,
will Rods2 please come to the forum immediately. Final call.