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[VXL V6]

No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.

No we are just a puppet for NATO, Think SSPAR and NMD and as in the old days of the Cold War, we will still be 'hit' first.

[Varche]

Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world.  But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once.  Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!

No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.  I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete.  In the mean time we stay strong together


It is a great thing hope but the sad reality is that after the war to end all wars, mankind learnt nothing. We have been killing each other on an epic scale virtually every year without a break somewhere on the planet. Personally I cannot see that ending until we have some form of heaven forbid "world government". Won't be in my time but it will come. Anyone who steps out of line will just be dealt with- end of. People won't care though as they will be busy buzzing about in driverless cars aimlessly texting each other with inaneties e.g Where are you? Don't know How long will you be? Don't know
 What is 2+2 ? Don't know. You get the idea.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.

No we are just a puppet for NATO, Think SSPAR and NMD and as in the old days of the Cold War, we will still be 'hit' first.

I hear what you say but we are currently going through nothing like the Cold War. Then we really expected the end like tomorrow! We knew one wrong move by one side or the other would result in the end. We just have'nt got that feeling now, and although the terrorist organisations are scary, they are nothing like the USSR, and certainly current day Russia is far from being at that "Stalinist" level.

[Varche]

Can but hope. Russia has the most pwerful man in the world at the helm.

Its economy is in freefall.

The Wests sanctions are strangling the country.

It is spending a lot more on its military .

It is flexing its muscles in Eastern Europe.

Regular incursions into the Wests airspace and territorial waters.

It has very sohpisticated Internet probing capabilities.

It has a good network of spies

but you are right no finger poised on the red button

[tigers_gonads]

Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world.  But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once.  Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!

No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.  I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete.  In the mean time we stay strong together

 

I must admit, I admire your optimum Liz but honestly you are miles away on this subject 

Yes, we are 4th iirc in the defence spending league 
BUT were does that money go ?
I'll give you a few hints then go do a little research on this 

The contract given to Bae systems for the 2 carriers. Especially the bit about penalty clauses for cancelling and changing the spec  ect.

Also the sack of poo poo that was the SA80 mk1 and how much we had the firstly pay for the original and secondly, how we had to go cap in hand the iirc, heckler and Koch to ask them to turn it into a weapon that works in all conditions.

And even have a look at the out sourcing of maintenance to civilian contractors of our frontline aircraft while forcing / kicking out the lads and lasses who had the REAL knowledge on how to keep them serviceable.

Have a look at the contract for air to air refuelling (Air Tanker)

Nimrod 

God knows how many millions on upgrading the Harrier then selling them to the yanks for spare parts 

Seriously, I could quote examples all night 

I wonder how many of the government ministers involved in the setting up of these contracts have a nice place on the board of these companies (in waiting ?)

We don't spend more then most countries, we WASTE more then most countries because of stupid contracts for the old boys network and in back handers 

NATO ?
Purely hypothetical but if Putin invaded us tomorrow, we may get some help of the yanks but the rest would shit themselves and turn the other way 
United Nations ?
They would send a strongly worded letter then claim we deserve it because Great Britain was a bunch of idiots to some of our colonies 

[Sir Tigger KC]

No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.  I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete.  In the mean time we stay strong together

I don't believe being a member of the United Nations has been of much use to Ukraine or Georgia. 

[andyc]

I've just checked the clock, its five to midnight

http://thebulletin.org/timeline

We  have two US air bases near us, The 100th ARW at Mildenhall and 48th fighter wing at Lakenheath so if it all goes pop we wont know much about.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Please all remember we spend more on defence than most countries around the world.  But gone are the days when we could go to war almost at a drop of a hate because someone had insulted the British Empire and send out our fleets of warships that could fight two navies at once.  Thank God, we, nor the rest of Europe, can make the mistake again of jumping into fall blown war, as we did 100 years ago and cause havoc for the next 100 years with individual countries "losing it"!

No, we belong to the United Nations and NATO and we can together use each others strengths to preempt any threat on a global scale.  I live in hope that over the next two hundred years all of the world's nations will settle down and seek peace, with scientific advances, making the large scale retention of weapons obsolete.  In the mean time we stay strong together

 

I must admit, I admire your optimum Liz but honestly you are miles away on this subject 

Yes, we are 4th iirc in the defence spending league 
BUT were does that money go ?
I'll give you a few hints then go do a little research on this 

The contract given to Bae systems for the 2 carriers. Especially the bit about penalty clauses for cancelling and changing the spec  ect.

Also the sack of poo poo that was the SA80 mk1 and how much we had the firstly pay for the original and secondly, how we had to go cap in hand the iirc, heckler and Koch to ask them to turn it into a weapon that works in all conditions.

And even have a look at the out sourcing of maintenance to civilian contractors of our frontline aircraft while forcing / kicking out the lads and lasses who had the REAL knowledge on how to keep them serviceable.

Have a look at the contract for air to air refuelling (Air Tanker)

Nimrod 

God knows how many millions on upgrading the Harrier then selling them to the yanks for spare parts 

Seriously, I could quote examples all night 

I wonder how many of the government ministers involved in the setting up of these contracts have a nice place on the board of these companies (in waiting ?)

You are absolutely right tigers about the level of waste as in those correct examples given.  However that is systematic of the defence procurement system. It has always been like that as threats and politics change along with technological advancement. 

There are many more examples than the ones you give, going at least back to the 19th century.The Martello towers built along the southern coast from 1804-8 to defend us from Napoleon but never used in anger, as was the Royal Military Canal, all built at great expense; The Palmerston Forts in the 1860s to defend against a threatening French navy that were built at great expense but in the end were never used; HMS Dreadnought built in 1906 rendered all other warships, included those of the Royal Navy, obsolete, but by 1914 was herself obsolete after new "Dreadnoughts" had been built, including the Queen Elizabeth Class Super Dreadnoughts, at very great cost; these in turn were obsolete by 1940, with air power the new decisive weapon, although still the British Government went ahead and built HMS Vanguard, the last battleship, for almost £12 million in 1946. Due to it being obsolete was decommissioned in 1960, after her life was stretched out a bit to hide a tremendous waste when the country had been in £3 billion in debt in 1945.

So you see if our armed forces are to try and stay one step ahead there will always be "mistakes" made, overspends incurred, and large amounts of waste when investing in British defence. That way we do overall come away with a credible defence arm, the forth largest in the world

As I stated though we must work together with the USA, as with did during WW2, the Cold War, and since generally, within NATO, that does have teeth, although hopefully you and I will never get to see that; 12 Trident missiles streaking up from one submarine alone to wipe out multiple cities. But we must have faith and confidence. The type of confidence Churchill had in 1940 to stand up to the Nazi menace, even though then our military was in fact far weaker than it is now, being complemented by much obsolete equipment, in planes, ships, guns, tanks, and army training. We ARE far stronger now alone, but with the other nations we can be able to stand up to a full assault.

[Sir Tigger KC]

If we think that our defence procurement is wasteful, then god knows what the waste within the US military is like given their vast budget. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If we think that our defence procurement is wasteful, then god knows what the waste within the US military is like given their vast budget. 

I reckon that could pay for our entire defence budget!!

[Shackeng]

Reference MOD waste, I don't know whether the situation today is as it was 25 years ago, but career officer postings were of only 2 years duration. It doesn't take much imagination to calculate the impact this had on decision making in, for example, procurement policy.

[05omegav6]

Reference MOD waste, I don't know whether the situation today is as it was 25 years ago, but career officer postings were of only 2 years duration. It doesn't take much imagination to calculate the impact this had on decision making in, for example, procurement policy.

On the rare occasion when you get a good manager in, it takes about 18 months to get everything set straight, leaving six months usefulness prior to the next bright spark coming along and ballsing everything up again because they don't or won't understand how a good system functions...

Happens the world over...

[Sir Tigger KC]

More Russian activity.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30429349

[chrisgixer]

Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding.  It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?



In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.

[Kevin Wood]

Economically I get the feeling Putins world is not far off imploding.  It's no more than a feeling though. Can anyone expand on that at all?



In other words, the guy is all front. All hat and no cattle. It seems to me.

Yep, he's stuffed economically. Inflation taking off big time and oil/gas revenues drying up. Is a desperate Putin any safer than a well-resourced Putin, though?