Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: DrAndyB on 21 March 2016, 18:59:34

Title: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 21 March 2016, 18:59:34
Hi All,

Looking to maybe put a new set of Front discs and pads on the old girl.  I noticed one front wheel slightly warmer than the other on short drive after I washed her today (couple of miles to dry brakes and discs off  :y).  I put new discs on a good few years ago, but she only does 1000 miles a year  :y so I would not expect them to be worn.

I noticed a bit of corrosion on the inside face of the both front discs, so thought would treat to new set of discs and pads regardless.  ;)

I have always used GM pads, but I wondered (other than GM) are there any other discs others have used with relative success :)

Thanks in advance.

Andy.

P.S>  Here is the old girl after a wash and wax.  Not bad for 16 years old  :y

(http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z436/andybeddoes/DSC_0088.jpg)
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 21 March 2016, 19:00:55
Been happy with Pagid discs / pads myself as have a few other OOF members. :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 21 March 2016, 19:03:49
nice omega there  :y

I have Apec d's and p's on the front. and pagid pads on the back (no idea about the rear discs). very happy with both  :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Mr.OmegaMan on 21 March 2016, 19:06:20
There was a Easter ECP (Euro Car Part) discount code that Zirk posted recently also  :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 21 March 2016, 19:08:14
Thanks for that.

Will try to look for the Code - What can go wrong  :o
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 21 March 2016, 19:31:33
There was a Easter ECP (Euro Car Part) discount code that Zirk posted recently also  :y

New Pads on their way  :y  £20 !!!!  :D (with the Easter 20% discount).

Just looked at discs and they are like new, no lip, no scoring so will see if a new set of pads and general clean sorts it.  If not, then I know where to get a new set of Discs  :y

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Nick W on 21 March 2016, 19:32:29
I would like to recommend the discs and pads the previous owner had fitted to my car about 6 years ago as they've done about 50,000 miles. But I can't because that was a year before I bought it, and I have no idea what they are.


When the time comes, I'll just buy Padgid.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: baggers on 21 March 2016, 21:02:52
Looks very nice  :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 March 2016, 08:20:31
Don't use Pagid, they don't last, the quality fell off a cliff about 18 months ago, very much best avoided.

Look out for ATE, Bosch or Delphi if you can
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: biggriffin on 22 March 2016, 12:25:44
Pagid discs, and trade club pads here :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: tigers_gonads on 22 March 2016, 12:59:01
OEM fronts / Pagid rear fitted to mine  :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: johnnydog on 22 March 2016, 15:09:08
If one disc is warmer than the other, before you fit your replacement discs and pads, I would check that the sliding caliper carrier has not seized. Dispite having the rubber boots top and bottom, they can split, and allow water and dirt in, which causes to the pin that they slide on to rust and seize in the carrier. When you apply the brakes, the force of the pistons push the carrier towards the disc, and if it has seized, it remains in this position causing the brakes to bind and become hotter on the affected side.
Easy enough to check; when dismantled, just try to slide the pins in the carrier; the rubber boot should be sufficient to return the pin to its original position. If it won't move, then it needs freeing off - a straight forward job. Any subsequent lubricant on the pin should be minimal and be a high temperature lubricant.
Just as a side, I always use Mintex discs and pads - previously read others adverse comments as everyone has their own thoughts, but I like them and the bite is far better than other makes I have tried previously, they are reasonably priced and fit well - right to the edge of the disc minimising the possibility of a future lip on the edge of the disc. All depends on personal preferences though......
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: 05omegav6 on 22 March 2016, 16:33:52
Mintex discs all round with ebc ultimax pads to good effect :y

Discs are evenly worn and fronts are on their third set of pads...
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: baggedestate on 22 March 2016, 18:04:20
ive just got mintex pads and disks to fit on rear. just need to decide on front and whether to do a big brake upgrade on front or keep standard
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 22 March 2016, 18:25:07
My only grumble about Mintex is from a fitting point of view. As I fit many brakes to many different cars it seems that Mintex add too thick a coat of paint to the tops and bottoms and they are difficult to get in place.

And before some keyboard warrior goes off on one, yes I do clean up / remove the rust on the carrier and irrespective of this they are hard to get in side to side as well as up and down. Take this extra layer of paint off with the bench grinder and it's all good. But a ball ache.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: biggriffin on 22 March 2016, 19:56:23
My only grumble about Mintex is from a fitting point of view. As I fit many brakes to many different cars it seems that Mintex add too thick a coat of paint to the tops and bottoms and they are difficult to get in place.

And before some keyboard warrior goes off on one, yes I do clean up / remove the rust on the carrier and irrespective of this they are hard to get in side to side as well as up and down. Take this extra layer of paint off with the bench grinder and it's all good. But a ball ache.

In the olden days we use to file the edges of the pads.
Allowed pad to fit better, and also prevented,pads from seizing in caliper. Smear of copperslip too. :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 22 March 2016, 19:56:45
Thanks to all for comments and advice.  Much appreciated.  :y

After deliberations, I have now ordered a "Brake Set" from Vauxhall  :y  The reason was the set comes with GM Pads and Discs (is cheaper than combined price !!!), and for not much more than a full set of Pagid, mintex or others.  Also I plan to keep the car and don't to do that many miles so may as well treat the old girl  ;)

Will check as mentioned make sure all is moving freely, so will clean up, spray and lube up all bits which need it.

Any recommendations on grease for that ?  I have some "TF2 Grease with Teflon" (red stuff in green TF2 tube which I use on my bikes), which claims Surface temperature from -30 to +130°C.   :o, or are then any particular flavours of preference ?  I also have copper grease for back of pads (remembering to to put on the correct side of pad  :D

Thanks again.
Andy.

Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 22 March 2016, 19:59:35
In the olden days we use to file the edges of the pads.
Allowed pad to fit better, and also prevented,pads from seizing in caliper. Smear of copperslip too. :y

 :y Daz taught me the file edge off pad trick  :y

Will do it the new ones  :'(
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: johnnydog on 22 March 2016, 20:03:06
I'm surprised at that - I've fitted Mintex to many cars over the years, not only Vauxhalls, but Audi's, Fords, Peugeots, Hondas, and list goes on. Not had an issue with the fitting of any them due to the thickness of the paint on the edge of the backing pads. I did have this issue on a 'never heard of before make' many years ago, and I never used them since, but never with Mintex.

As regards copper slip on the back of the pads, yes, I've done it as no doubt many have, but there are some that don't advocate using it. I tend to use brake pad grease / lube which is easily obtainable from motor factors - in fact Mintex as most brake manufacturers do their own. Specifically made for the job......
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 22 March 2016, 20:54:35
Guy at work swears by 'Ceratec' and the like.

Me personally I go for copper anti seize on the corners of the pads and silicone paste for the slide pins  :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: TheBoy on 23 March 2016, 18:19:31
*IF* you want to use a copper grease (and personally I do), FFS make sure you use the Molyslip stuff.  The utter shite that people pass off as copper grease that isn't made by Molyslip will wash away at the first puddle.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 23 March 2016, 19:41:26
*IF* you want to use a copper grease (and personally I do), FFS make sure you use the Molyslip stuff.  The utter shite that people pass off as copper grease that isn't made by Molyslip will wash away at the first puddle.
I don't take her out in the rain   ;D

I have some 'Commer' brand Copper grease, but if that's not considered to 'cut the mustard' then I shall see if I can get some Molyslip stuff.

I noticed some other grease was suggested for the sliders/pins.  Any make/type recommended for that job ? as I have a small selection of lithium (white) or teflon (red) stuff :-\
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: TheBoy on 23 March 2016, 20:12:21
Anything but the "proper" (Molyslip) is only any good for landfill.

For the pins, I'd suggest a high temp grease like Castrol LM...
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 24 March 2016, 19:32:32
Picked up a LARGE (and heavy) box with the GM brake kit in today, and I got all recommended lubes  :y

HOWEVER, F/NS wheel definitely hot when I got home.   :'(

Any advice or additional bits (or kits) maybe worth getting before I start ?

Cheers.
Andy.

(http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z436/andybeddoes/IMG_20160324_192213.jpg)
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: 05omegav6 on 24 March 2016, 20:32:42
Wheel bearing?
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 24 March 2016, 20:52:14
Wheel bearing?

Car only done 60k miles, and had her from new so I know original. 

Would low mileage still indicate bearing issue ? No particular noises or indications through steering.

Will make sure sliders are all free and lubed up and go from there I guess.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: johnnydog on 24 March 2016, 23:04:35
I'd put my money on a slightly binding brake on the affected side - likely to be caused by the slider pins seized as outlined in this topic earlier.
No cost outlay, except maybe for the rubber gaiters if split.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 24 March 2016, 23:18:05
I'd put my money on a slightly binding brake on the affected side - likely to be caused by the slider pins seized as outlined in this topic earlier.
No cost outlay, except maybe for the rubber gaiters if split.
Was what I was suspecting (especially as I noticed when I parked in the car park at work I normally roll back last bit into space, and she didn't do it today so certainly indicative of slightly binding brake.)  Will hopefully investigate over weekend.  I shall report back findings  :y

Are the gaiters easy to change and are they available at Dealers ?

Thanks again all for help and advice
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: dbug on 24 March 2016, 23:24:48
I'd put my money on a slightly binding brake on the affected side - likely to be caused by the slider pins seized as outlined in this topic earlier.
No cost outlay, except maybe for the rubber gaiters if split.
Was what I was suspecting (especially as I noticed when I parked in the car park at work I normally roll back last bit into space, and she didn't do it today so certainly indicative of slightly binding brake.)  Will hopefully investigate over weekend.  I shall report back findings  :y

Are the gaiters easy to change and are they available at Dealers ?

Thanks again all for help and advice

Very unlikely to be a wheel bearing as you would certainly "feel" it on spinning wheel if it was getting that hot.  As said more likely a brake binding (probably a seized/stiff slider)

In answer to your questions - yes and yes :y

HTH
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 24 March 2016, 23:35:58
I stripped down my calipers to the bare metal, replaced seals, boots, sliders and repainted. Not necessarily suggesting you do the same (though certainly won't hurt) but as said above, if you split the caliper, remove the slider pins, check there's free movement of the 'moving bits' binding brake does sound like it. I'd be temped to say that if it's binding, that's down to some muck or corrosion getting into the piston itself.

If you're taking the discs off anyway, then caliper will be off too, perfect time to peel back the rubber boot/gaiter an look for any signs of rust. I've pumped out and pushed back the piston several times on calipers before (using a G clamp). You MUST MUST ensure the brake fluid reservoir cap is off, otherwise you can stuff the master cylinder seals.

If you need any more detailed info on the above, just ask  :)
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: jb on 25 March 2016, 07:32:35
Key to free moving pads is  to
1. Clean the pad carriers with emery paper and then test fit the pads(sanding down the pad locator tabs of any excess paint if required) then lube up all contact points (carrier and pads)with ceratech brake lube ensuring that no excess comes in contact with disc.

2. Check that slider pins move freely and dismantle,clean and lube if req. never had to replace the rubber boots.

3. Check piston moving freely and rubber boot in place and undamaged. Use g lamp or piston retraction tool and often good to push back and pump out a couple of times.

Binding often due to build up of crud and rust in the area of carrier and pad tabs.

Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2016, 07:55:35
Completely agree with all of the post from JB :y

Of all the brake jobs I've done at work I've seen siezed slide pins maybe 3-4 times. Pads seized in to place is super common.

As you'll be fitting discs you'll have the carrier off and therefore real easy to get a wire brush in to all the nooks and crannies

Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 25 March 2016, 08:01:27
Are the slider pins easy to remove ?

If I was to take take them off then I may as well put a new set on was my thinking as they will be 16 years old  :y

Assume not that extortionate from the Stealer for a set ?
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2016, 08:06:53
The slide pins will pull out. If they're seized get a pair of mole grips on the end and twist them out.

When you put your new ones in (or your freshly lubed old ones) push the slide pin in and then pinch the rubber boot with your fingers to expel any trapped air.
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2016, 08:07:54
Ps as for replacement I wouldn't bother. They usually come up really nice with a good wire wheeling
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 25 March 2016, 08:20:52
Ps as for replacement I wouldn't bother. They usually come up really nice with a good wire wheeling

 :y :y thanks. 

I have taken caliper off at last disc change ( several years ago now) so I am sure it will all come back  :y

Sounds easier than the rubbish sliders which used to sieze on my old Carlton Diplomat  ;D
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Webby the Bear on 25 March 2016, 10:07:06
Ps as for replacement I wouldn't bother. They usually come up really nice with a good wire wheeling

 :y :y thanks. 

I have taken caliper off at last disc change ( several years ago now) so I am sure it will all come back  :y

Sounds easier than the rubbish sliders which used to sieze on my old Carlton Diplomat  ;D

Just make sure you leave yourself a note on the steering wheel to pump the pedal if it's been a while. Guarantee you'll remember it as soon as you've reversed in to the house over the street  ;D

And top off the fluid  :y
Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: DrAndyB on 26 March 2016, 19:57:56
Update.

Disks and and pads now changed  :y

The hot wheel was I believe a stiff piston on the calliper as it was hard to push back (sliders were all free, but I took out and greased and appeared like new  :y )

I have cleaned around the piston, and pushed seal back and cleaned outer of piston and it looked all clean, shiney and no corrosion. Worked piston back and forth about 20 times and it feels the same as the other side.  Not sure if this is prolonging the issue and that I need to replace  calliper ????  Can you get a piston service kit ?  Guess best to keep an eye on things and at slightest "warm wheel" replace calliper ?  Assume a pair of GM ones are not cheap  :'(

Also noticed that the new GM pads came pre chamfered on the ends  :y

Title: Re: Front Discs, any recommendations....
Post by: Diamond Black Geezer on 28 March 2016, 01:04:03
seals/service kits are available, but you've most likely 'turned the clock back' on your calipers by quite a few years by that day's work.  :)