Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: citroenguy on 21 September 2016, 19:44:39
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I actually consider the Omega B a Classic. Especially the PFL/MFL examples, the FL“s a bit less so, due to them being newer and more plentiful.
It was launched 22 years ago and it is a rare sight on todays roads, particularly here in Sweden where the road salt and long winters haven“t been kind to the Omega population. Also they didn“t sell in big numbers here.
Furthermore it was (as mentioned many times on the site) the last traditional RWD big executive non BM/Merc saloon.
Personally i really like the styling, the availible V6 Engines, wood trim and leather upholstery. But the i am a sucker for 80s and 90s saloons :)
Maby it is different for you who experienced them as common cars see it a bit differently? For me, being of 1997 vintage it is a car i remember seeing and reading about in my youth. I stll have my "All cars of 1994" magazine, with the "new" Omega B in it 8)
Just some thoughts :D
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Sadly I rather doubt it.
Beauty is (as always) in the eye of the beholder, but I think Migs probably won't hit classic status until they hit the 40-50 years old plus category where everything becomes a classic regardless of whether it's good bad or indifferent.
Also, how good a car is, or how rare, seldom has an influence on attaining classic status, only the cost of them once the status is obtained ;).
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Just because Omegas are old doesn't mean that they are 'classics'. Whatever they are.
They're still a common sight in everyday use. Give them another twenty years when you see one a year, and they might be worth mentioning. Like a VX4/90 is today.
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"Classic" is a bit of a loaded word people will think of e type jags etc.l prefer to consider them desirable and would pay over the odds for an early '94 v6 elite estate in vgc. :y
John
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True, though I consider them a 'modern classic'. Certainly she does get the odd admiring looks, and had a few people come over and ask about her, engine size etc. I think any car which people actually have positive memories of has to be a good thing, and some form of merit/classic status. However, as you say, 'classic' is a loaded word and it is used for anything over, say, 25 years old.
Give it a few more years when they're doing 'retro' Police Dramas (same way Ashes to Ashes/Life on Mars did a few years ago now) and there's CID/unmarked Police Omegas everywhere, then people will start to remember/reminisce. there was plenty of groups of people who had fond memories of them...
-Royal Family ran them, Prince Charles in particular liked them
-PM and Cabinet Ministers official transport
-As above - Police, marked and unmarked
-A thousand Managers, be it junior Manager who was able to afford a 2.0 GLS (for the same price as a Vectra you could have a base model Omega) or the bloke higher up with his Elite.
-Sounds daft, but still very popular as Hearses/limousines
-Taxi drivers there's barely a person alive who hasn't been in the back of an Omega from a night out/dinner party/ferry to the airport
Not forgetting Sir Geoffrey Norman MP had one... :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8946ojRoX3Y
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
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There appears to be quite a few variations on what a "classic"is,so it can I suppose on which definition you wish to use.The Omega was launched in 1994-did it go on sale in that year?-so technically the oldest is now 22yrs old,however I do know that Tatton park classic car shows will not allow Omegas on display as they're considered too new[but there are much newer Jags and Mercs allowed.If the classic movement is to continue to thrive they have to move a little with the times to attract younger people to it.A lot of people consider a "classic" to be something they recall from their childhood etc.Perhaps "cherished" may be a better term to use?
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Maby modern classic or retro are better words for it.
But many of these 90s everyday cars are getting rare, like the 80s cars 10-15 years ago.
When was the last time you saw a Calibra or Rover 600 out and about?
I see Omegas about once every 3 months.. unless i go and see my mate :D
I think it is an generation/age thing too. For example i don“t have much interest in cars older than circa 1977. Sure a Series 1 Jag XJ is cool but i“d take an XJ40 any day
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When was the last time you saw a Calibra or Rover 600 out and about?
This morning. The self-abuser pulled out in front of me when I was at ramming speed, that made the tyres squeal.
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Not a classic, but I think the Senator 24V was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
You may well be right. :y :D.................as long as we leave the LC out of the equation.
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When was the last time you saw a Calibra or Rover 600 out and about?
This morning. The self-abuser pulled out in front of me when I was at ramming speed, that made the tyres squeal.
Used to have a Rover 800 Vitese 2.0 Turbo for a run around until I blew the HG on it, didn't really think to much about it when I had it, but kind of miss it now.
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Not a classic, but I think the Senator 24V was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
You may well be right. :y :D.................as long as we leave the LC out of the equation.
You know the PFL was a decent refinement of the (then) ageing Senator, and the MFL was a refinement of that. Unlike the compromised, penny pinched FL.
I have a soft spot for Sennies, but the Omega was a great deal better.
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[/quote]Used to have a Rover 800 Vitese 2.0 Turbo for a run around until I blew the HG on it, didn't really think to much about it when I had it, but kind of miss it now.
[/quote]
Common fault,
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Used to have a Rover 800 Vitese 2.0 Turbo for a run around until I blew the HG on it, didn't really think to much about it when I had it, but kind of miss it now.
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Common fault,
[/quote]What owning one, or blowing the HG, ;D
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Head gasket, they changed ,by time it was in the 220(tomcat),
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I took my Red MV6 along to a classic car show in Colchester a week or so ago, and alongside a fully liveried police omega and a Stienmetz Omega courtesy of James Waddington, plus a Lotus Carlton and a Carlton estate, you would be surprised at the interest generated by these cars, and the amount of times I was asked to step away from my car so that pictures could be taken.This was the same for the other cars in the line up, classics? perhaps not,but still drawing enough interest to make it worthwhile making an effort to prep a car and take it along, albeit to take people on a trip down memory lane :'(
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I love my Omega CDX estate, 2003 so no where near to being a classic and will be very sad to see it go next week when I part ex it but I can't work on it myself & starting to show its age. :(
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
Now that's one unbiased opinion ;D ;D
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
Now that's one unbiased opinion ;D ;D
Anyone would think it's the pinnacle of all automotive design and engineering ;D ;D
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Jokes aside - IMO, carltons and senators (of all generations) had more style than omega. However, omega is far more better and rafined car.
Also, PFL was quite nice car in mid 90s. Interior was great. Outside, some parts are not best designed and 'feel' cheap and not sturdy IMO (front bumper, side skirts).
FLs, on the other hand, are too much modifed to keep up with then current design, that it is almost new design (probably that's why many call it Omega C). IMO, it was learning old dog new tricks.
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Jokes aside - IMO, carltons and senators (of all generations) had more style than omega. However, omega is far more better and rafined car.
Also, PFL was quite nice car in mid 90s. Interior was great. Outside, some parts are not best designed and 'feel' cheap and not sturdy IMO (front bumper, side skirts).
FLs, on the other hand, are too much modifed to keep up with then current design, that it is almost new design (probably that's why many call it Omega C). IMO, it was learning old dog new tricks.
Bah, FL changes are all cosmetic... structure of car identical to pfl/mfl, as were the engines initially :y
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Jokes aside - IMO, carltons and senators (of all generations) had more style than omega. However, omega is far more better and rafined car.
Also, PFL was quite nice car in mid 90s. Interior was great. Outside, some parts are not best designed and 'feel' cheap and not sturdy IMO (front bumper, side skirts).
FLs, on the other hand, are too much modifed to keep up with then current design, that it is almost new design (probably that's why many call it Omega C). IMO, it was learning old dog new tricks.
Bah, FL changes are all cosmetic... structure of car identical to pfl/mfl, as were the engines initially :y
Yes, as I said, ot looks very different than PFL. And the interior is quite modified.
Much more design modifications than was usual for a facelift for GM at that time.
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Yep. :) much more.
What people forget is that the Omega already had a facelift, what we now retrospectively call the 'MFL' - for '97 it got new interior colours, seat fabrics, new colours, new alloy wheel styles, new headlamp units, revised trim levels, additions to the range (the MV6 started life just as a special edition, but due to demand became a regular list model) as well as some styling tweaks (the Elites gained spoiler and grille) that was plenty for the standards of a 'facelift' of the day.
The Omega was actually ready for replacement in 2000, having served the industry standard 6 years. Instead Vauxhall/Opel spent a ruddy fortune upgrading the whole car, for 'only' another 3 years (some cars registered in '04, though)
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Although the Omega was mechanically superior to the Senator (although there was something about the character of the straight 6 that the V6 never captured) I think the Senator's interior felt a much more special place to be, and the car stood out as something special from the exterior too. The rot set in when there was no longer the Carlton-Senator distinction between the 4 pots / tractors and the prestige 6 cylinder cars, IMHO, and they rolled it all into the Omega.
PFL, MFL Omegas got a standard plastic Vauxhall interior, not far off what would have been found in a chavalier / astra of the period and the FL got the Vectra feel inside with that unremarkable Astra 4 grille on the outside.
Selling this against Merc / BMW as a prestige car wasn't ever going to work for long.
Ford went way too weird with the Scorpio. Vauxhall went way too humdrum with the Omega, IMHO. The death knell of the RWD luxury saloon, unless you could bring yourself to drive a panzerwagen. ;)
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Cost of the full FL in late 99, was a fraction of the cost of a new car. GM probably knew they would retire that RWD platform, so fairly small cost to them could see the FL go on for a few more years.
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Cost of the full FL in late 99, was a fraction of the cost of a new car. GM probably knew they would retire that RWD platform, so fairly small cost to them could see the FL go on for a few more years.
I don't know about that. I reckon it just coincided with BMW and Merc cheapening their base models and all the company car drivers flocked for the prestige badges. GM also had a V8 Omega in the pipeline, remember.
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Cost of the full FL in late 99, was a fraction of the cost of a new car. GM probably knew they would retire that RWD platform, so fairly small cost to them could see the FL go on for a few more years.
I don't know about that. I reckon it just coincided with BMW and Merc cheapening their base models and all the company car drivers flocked for the prestige badges. GM also had a V8 Omega in the pipeline, remember.
True I had forgot about that, but it could not have been a snap decision. They must have known they would stop making it around 2001/2002, or at least strongly considered it :-\
They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
Omega still sold in good numbers in F/L, so would suggest there still was something there. Maybe less so in Euroland :-\
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That was the tragedy, the ''poor mans ----- '' market was disappearing year-on-year. I think I mentioned this in another thread recently, that with more people buying BMW 3-series than Mondeos, the 'Inspirational Britain' thing is well in force. No-one wants to buy a car like an Omega which does everything that the Prestige badged car does - they just buy the prestige badged car in the first place. Even if it is a base model, with half the spec of the equivalent Vauxhall/Ford etc. They're happy with the badge, and can act all snooty to the neighbours.
It's like people who buy an A-Class, or an Audi A1, etc really do think they're buying a car as expensive and exclusive as an SLR, R8 etc...
If memory serves the cost of the Omega facelift was £180mill, compared with Jag who spent £90million on the 'new' X300 in 1994, which was a heavy reskin of the XJ40. Ok, a nowadays modern 'all-new' car is about a £billion. Opel spent apparently 2 Billion Marks (about £880 million) on the Carlton.
So the Omega facelift was sort of big money, sort of cheap, depending on your perspective, and what you think you are getting for your money, so to speak.
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
Hammer. Nail. Head.
Ford accelerated the situation by utterly ruining the Granada... I always maintain that the Omega is the car the Granada should have become... but even then I doubt it would have seen in the millennium :'(
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Oh, and re: the 'Senator problem' indeed, the separate model was a brilliant idea, not forgetting the Senny, aside from sharing underpinnings and engines, also shared stuff like front doors, which many people can't believe, they are so artfully and skillfully styled, they appear much bigger on the road and totally different cars. Anyone who has seen the front end of a Senny grafted on a Carlton will know how close they are.
But clearly for the magic 'cost' reasons, they decided not to pursue a model up above the Carlton/Omega A. Presumably the marketing decision was to make the new Omega move up in the market place, where the Carlton had previously been that slightly bigger than a Cavalier, a bit Antique dealer/Farmer maybe, a slightly workhorse machine, with a bit of comfort. In 1978 when they launched the Carlton, no-one could have imagined just over ten years later there'd be GSi Carltons, super-luxurious ones with full leather, walnut & air-con and then even Lotus turbocharched ones. So perhaps the logical progression was to move the Omega up a notch, meaning that a proposed Senator replacement would itself have to be moved up a notch, meaning directly in the firing line of Merc S-class, which was something they weren't prepared to do/knew it would never wash with customers. (and anyone who said people would pay £40-50k for a Vauxhall would be proven wrong when the Lotus Carlton did not achieve the sales it was hoped to be - the Ferrari F40 outsold it, for instance!)
Of course that's not to say I don't adore the Senny - which I do - and wouldn't have loved to have seen a true replacement - which I would. Look at a Holden Statemsman if you want an idea what it would/could have looked like. :)
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
Most car owners don't care(if they even know) which end their car drives. Mass market manufacturers stopped making large RWD cars because they had stopped making small and medium sized RWD cars to share parts. The Omega was built on an ancient and obsolete platform that shared nothing with the rest of the range except its engines. Its replacement was always going to be based on a FWD platform, and the ever increasing size of model replacements meant the Insignia did just that. The facelift was a budget way of stretching out a tired looking range until that happened. The original Omega interior has dated really badly, whereas the only thing that a F/L dash is 'missing' to look up to date is a large screen.
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
Most car owners don't care(if they even know) which end their car drives. Mass market manufacturers stopped making large RWD cars because they had stopped making small and medium sized RWD cars to share parts. The Omega was built on an ancient and obsolete platform that shared nothing with the rest of the range except its engines. Its replacement was always going to be based on a FWD platform, and the ever increasing size of model replacements meant the Insignia did just that. The facelift was a budget way of stretching out a tired looking range until that happened. The original Omega interior has dated really badly, whereas the only thing that a F/L dash is 'missing' to look up to date is a large screen.
Red Flag to a Bull, the interior of MFL or FL for TheBoy.
You can't diss the MFL, it's the pinnacle of Vauxhall's achievements. ;D
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Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?
Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.
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Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?
Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.
Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.
It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well ;D
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In Europe the Carlton was known as the Omega A. The "new Omega" - B in Europe, PFL in the UK, was obviously the replacement for what we knew as the Carlton, and was never intended to replace the Senator.
After the Senator went out of production, GM Europe gave up trying to compete with the S class, 7 series etc. The Omega could be said to be aimed at the 5 series market, but never the 7 series.
Once the ancient platform had come to the end of its life, they gave up any pretensions whatsoever of having a flagship model and abandoned the prestige end of the market altogether.
Probably just as well as any replacement would either have been fwd,a stretched Vectra ?, or they would have bankrupt the company designing a new rwd platform from scratch.
A pity though as I have had a lot of pleasure owning and driving big Vauxhalls since I bought a Viceroy in 1987. :(
I will always maintain that the Senator was undoubtedly the pinnacle of large Vauxhalls. I bought my pfl Omega immediately after scrapping my Senator, and it immediately felt like much less of a car in every respect. I knew I had taken quite a big step down as soon as I sat in it and drove it.
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Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?
Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.
Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.
It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well ;D
Is there any need for that? ???
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Probably not, people say stuff to get reactions, both positive and negative for good and bad. Let's move on :)
So... The ultimate irony, in all of this, is just as the Omega died, there was a massive performance Renaissance at Luton, the VXR branding was launched, the BTCC cars were winning year-on-year, and then they chose to import the Holden Monaro. And everyone loved it, and people were calling it the best handing Vauxhall in years. It was a Vauxhall Top Gear liked - and there's no higher standard than that. Now without provoking another OOF argument about how close the two cars are, they are the same 'platform', albeit a heavily modified form. And it's the same recipe, big lump up front, rear drive, Done. :)
To anyone who was a fan of the Omega I cannot stress how much of a delight and bolt out of the blue it was to see those curvy doors resurface, and for everyone to be raving about it :)
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Monaro's prices have held well recently too, RobseyMV6 had super charged one. Damn that thing was fast!
I'd still like to get one some day, as a toy, instead of the bike.
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Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?
Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.
Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.
It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well ;D
FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s
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The Monaro was a strong seller globally :y The VE Commodore that replaced it sold well in both V6 and V8 forms in the US, yet we only got the VXR8 ???
Why? Because physically the Insignia is identical in every dimension except width :o so the only way to viably sell such a car here would have been to import the Statesman/Caprice version... and as experience has oft shown, selling a modest badge at premium prices doesn't work in the european market place... regardless of how competent the car is.
Recall a very good Autocar group test from the early '90s... W140 S Class vs BMW 7 Series, Lexus LS400, Honda Legend, Rolls Royce Seraph? and Cadillac STS.
Only two were considered genuine luxury cars, the rest were mere pretenders iirc.
GM has always been halfarsed when it comes to the UK, and Europe as a whole...Vauxhall and Opel should have been formally rebranded a long time ago... then we might have had some interesting cars to choose from... Not that the Chevrolet Cavalier was any better than the European one :D
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It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well ;D
The packaging improvements have been pissed away by modern styling and the sheer size of modern components.
RWD drivetrains were modular too as Ford proved: their small and medium sized cars commonly shared engine/gearbox/axle combinations like crossflows and English axles, then the medium and large cars had Pintos/V6s and Atlas axles. Simple partsbin engineering meant that a stock Pinto stuffed in an Escort made a niche car on the cheap, or a V6 Cortina.
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Same is still true, only now almost everything is fwd...
Key difference is that back in the '70s and '80s it didn't take much to make one car 'better' than the next one ;)
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FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s
Yes, in a small light car. Try to make a barge the size and weight of an Omega work with good comfort, performance and handling and it all falls apart unless you go RWD. If you can throw out some of the requirements, then maybe it'll work. Witness that Cadillac went FWD some time ago. Great if you want it to make a water bed seem responsive. ;D
But, if you want to combine a generous size of car with a good amount of poke, comfortable ride and yet maintain pleasant handling and a decent level of grip, it has to be RWD. There are, however, enough drivers these days that won't notice the compromises you are making, that you can get away with it. ;)
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Yes, in a small light car. Try to make a barge the size and weight of an Omega work with good comfort, performance and handling and it all falls apart unless you go RWD. If you can throw out some of the requirements, then maybe it'll work. Witness that Cadillac went FWD some time ago. Great if you want it to make a water bed seem responsive. ;D
But, if you want to combine a generous size of car with a good amount of poke, comfortable ride and yet maintain pleasant handling and a decent level of grip, it has to be RWD. There are, however, enough drivers these days that won't notice the compromises you are making, that you can get away with it. ;)
In that era (late 80's and trough 90's) many have gone from RWD to FWD. They called it 'progress'. Cadillac is one of few that came back. First with catera, followed by CTS, and currently most of their range is RWD. Several years ago, Alfa was considering switching back to RWD for Alfa 166, but nothing happened.
FWD is for small and medium size cars.
In big cars, it just doesn't right, IMO. Although, for normal driving, one will not notice the difference.
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FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s
Yes, in a small light car. Try to make a barge the size and weight of an Omega work with good comfort, performance and handling and it all falls apart unless you go RWD. If you can throw out some of the requirements, then maybe it'll work. Witness that Cadillac went FWD some time ago. Great if you want it to make a water bed seem responsive. ;D
But, if you want to combine a generous size of car with a good amount of poke, comfortable ride and yet maintain pleasant handling and a decent level of grip, it has to be RWD. There are, however, enough drivers these days that won't notice the compromises you are making, that you can get away with it. ;)
I agree but there is an exception, big Citroens. The CX, XM and C6 all have decent poke, great comfort and good handling for their size. AWD is the ultimate for grip and performance though.
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Fitting AWD to a FWD platform is an admission of failure hidden behind marketing wank.
Basically saying, " Hey, this trolley chassis is okay. But utter shite with 300bhp running through it, so we had to make it AWD just to keep it on the road the front tyre wear acceptable."
On the plus side, done well, you end up with a very capable car :y The Insignia 4x4 being a case in point 8)
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Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?
Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.
Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.
It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well ;D
FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s
Depends how you define handling. Its easier and safer for people who don't take the art of driving too seriously, and also much cheaper to manufacture.
There must be a reason though, why there has never been a purpose designed & built FWD competition car, as far as Im aware.
If FWD handling characteristics were ultimately better than RWD, then wouldn't F1 cars be FWD ? ;)
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Also having switched from RWD to FWD for my commute, I don't notice it. At what point do you or can you safely push the car to the point of RWD benefits, on a busy morning commute?
Apart from lighting the fronts up a couple of times, I've not noticed loss of RWD. Car park is a tad tight at work, thought may have noticed it here with smaller FWD turning circles, but it's not been an issue.
Answered your own question... asking steering wheels to drive at the same time is dynamically insane.
It is simply done for packaging purposes and enables manufacturers to save billions by using the same drivetrain in every model they see fit to foist upon us. Something the manufacturer of your styling gimmick know only too well ;D
FWD can't be that bad when it works so well, just look at the latest hot hatches tearing up the nurburgring. And it makes for easier/safer handling, there are less bits to go wrong as well as better traction on slippery surfaces.
Citroen have been using it since 1934.. and is still using it today. The 1934 Citroen Traction Avant could out handle most saloon cars of the 30/40s an early 50s
Depends how you define handling. Its easier and safer for people who don't take the art of driving too seriously, and also much cheaper to manufacture.
There must be a reason though, why there has never been a purpose designed & built FWD competition car, as far as Im aware.
If FWD handling characteristics were ultimately better than RWD, then wouldn't F1 cars be FWD ? ;)
This: http://www.topgear.com/car-news/motorsport/nissan%E2%80%99s-1250bhp-le-mans-racer-explained
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Your right. There is indeed one - and its probably the only one.
Reading the article, it seems it was decided to use FWD in order to allow the team to exploit the regulations on aerodynamics, which they presumably thought would more than outweigh the disadvantages of FWD. :y
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...
...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega? As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...
...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega? As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?
Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? ???
You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...
...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega? As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?
Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? ???
You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.
Christ, we're a bit sensitive today, aren't we Mr Tunnie. Its me FFS ;D. And if you read what I said about Omega cruise, I was agreeing with you (well, saying Omega cruise was too cumbersome). Blimey.
Anyway, back to my original question, open to all, name a Opel/Vx that's an improvement on the Omega MFL. There must be an improvement, but everybody was implying its just "TB seems to think MFL is the Pinnacle of Vx/Opel"...
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...
...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega? As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?
Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? ???
You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.
Christ, we're a bit sensitive today, aren't we Mr Tunnie. Its me FFS ;D. And if you read what I said about Omega cruise, I was agreeing with you (well, saying Omega cruise was too cumbersome). Blimey.
Anyway, back to my original question, open to all, name a Opel/Vx that's an improvement on the Omega MFL. There must be an improvement, but everybody was implying its just "TB seems to think MFL is the Pinnacle of Vx/Opel"...
Thought you were being sarcastic :-[ ;D
To the question, I always thought the Senator should have been developed further and not killed off. Straight 6 engine was a peach, always preferred it to the V. But the best Vauxhall? Has to be the Monaro.
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But the best Vauxhall? Has to be the Monaro.
I was specially referring to Vx/Opel designed stuff, fully aware the wider GM do some good cars...
But even including Vx badged Holdens, you're still wrong, its the VXR8. Obviously. 4 doors. Better spec, whats not to like... ...except even a good, 6yr old one will cost £20k
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Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.
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Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.
I reckon the VXR8 is the better place to sit. Looks are in the eye of the beholder. Granted, the modern VXR8's are a bit obvious, but then the Monaro CV8 is too far the other way. A car that loud shouldn't look that dull.
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I'll let you know wether the Monaro is better than the R8.....soon :-X
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Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.
Not better, different.
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Re both the Monaro and R8,in general terms most of these cars have been ragged,a quick look on Youtube will confirm this,and it puzzles me that cars that have been abused most of their life are commanding strong prices, these cars are not for the faint hearted performance wise and maintenance wise,because although service parts are a bit more expensive, it's once you need the bigger replacement parts then it's price and availability that becomes an issue.
Body parts from what I understand can be a problem, so if you stack your car then it's going to be a long wait for the body shop to get to it.So in a way although they are a modern car they almost assume a classic status by default due to the general care and running costs,BUT having said that I still get a kick out of it when I turn the key and fire it up...preferably at 6 a.m on a Sunday morning for the benefit of all my miserable bastid up their own arses neighbours >:( ;D
Gotta feeling Dr G is waiting in the wings to have a go ;D
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Knowing how much you love your Neighbours, I would like to see that Sunday ritual ;D
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Missed it this morning...rained off, next start up planned for next Sunday and it's going to be a thorough throat clearing,due to the fact that their builders were cutting up some concrete beams the other day and smothered my car that had been cleaned a few hours earlier.I absolutely loathe them and if I thought I could get away with it..... :-X :-X so planning to move up to OOF Land as soon as it's possible,or may be a bit further North.
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so planning to move up to OOF Land as soon as it's possible,or may be a bit further North.
I thought OOF was one of those online, virtual places :P
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Exactly what I thought until... the other night when speaking to BG,apparently there is also NOOFland and it's a regional thing,nothing to worry about just one or two members making it their own.So webby is in NOOFland and Serek and BG being further East are in OOFland...confused from W okingham. ::)well sort of :-\
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Exactly what I thought until... the other night when speaking to BG,apparently there is also NOOFland and it's a regional thing,nothing to worry about just one or two members making it their own.So webby is in NOOFland and Serek and BG being further East are in OOFland...confused from W okingham. ::)well sort of :-\
They are getting close to being fen boys. That be proper carrot cruncher territory ;D
I think you count as Readingham.
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From my running battles with insurance company's Vauxhalls have to be over 20 years old before they are officially considered classic.
The salt in the wound is that according to how many left there are 14 or so Omega CDs left on the road in the U.K. Of over 2195 registered in the mid 90s.
Even pointing out it's my decoy do car and only comes out in the summer wasn't much help.
Yet if you buy a Jaguar or some Mercedes it's instantly a classic once you take ownership.
My Dad had an MG monte go and that was a classic after 10 years but I'm guessing it had something todo with the fact they tended to rot ?
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In order for your Omega to even be considered a classic when it's 30 years old, then it, and more importantly the history, should look something like this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-300-E-Auto-Saloon-W124-/322381880669?hash=item4b0f751d5d:g:0IQAAOSwt5hYb6mW
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I work with people who bleed petrol, one of whom had the first MV6 in the country, after showing him around my CD he suggested showing her at shows because there haven't been any at the shows around us (midlands) and he was surprised there wasn't a police Omega anywhere at the last show he went too.
I hadn't thought about this before despite going to a few shows but she'll be putting in appearances this year.
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Interesting and entertaining thread. I could swear I had already posted in it too. But I guess not. Must have been a twin thread.
I won't elaborate why I think the Omega will indeed be a classic. I already did that in the other thread. But it looks good, has a nice design and it's the last RWD Opel. Classic! :)
Unless of course Opel wises up and launches a car based on the GM Alpha platform to top the boring and ugly Insignia. Then it will no longer be the last RWD Opel ;)
Yeah right! GM is killing the RWD Commodore. Not a slim chance they would allow Opel to make a RWD saloon. ;D
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Not a classic, but I think the MFL was the pinnacle of Vx/Opel's achievements.
As I seem to be getting a lot of grief over that comment, particularly from someone who thinks a non descript VW shitbox is best thing ever made...
...can anybody suggest a Vx/Opel car that is better than the MFL Omega? As all I can see they did after was the penny pinched FL, the rather poor Vectra-C/Signum, Insignia.... ?
Never said VW CC was best thing ever made? At what point have I ever stated anything similar? ???
You seem to be picking up on each comment like what I said about cruise, about it being better? Just time to face facts and they need replacing, as you know it's a struggle to find anything. I've done the best I can with my budget and requirements. I can't afford an XJ new shape or XF Sport Back or any new decent RWD saloon.
Christ, we're a bit sensitive today, aren't we Mr Tunnie. Its me FFS ;D. And if you read what I said about Omega cruise, I was agreeing with you (well, saying Omega cruise was too cumbersome). Blimey.
Anyway, back to my original question, open to all, name a Opel/Vx that's an improvement on the Omega MFL. There must be an improvement, but everybody was implying its just "TB seems to think MFL is the Pinnacle of Vx/Opel"...
I agree. The MFL is the best Opel has ever been. :y
Yes, the Senator was more luxurious for the time and the Gsi 3000 more sporty for the time. But looking at the whole package, the MFL is the pinnacle indeed. FL didn't add any real advantages right? And it was cosmetically compromised because Opel sold out to the corporate demons and made it look like an Astra, which made it banal and mundane looking. :(
The FL Vauxhall MV6 and Sport at least look a little better with the Prodrive bumper. Not as good still as a PFL/MFL, but better. Because the rest and all the Opel FL cars look so blah IMO. Pity the Prodrive bumper was never available for the Opels even though they were all assembled together in Germany.
And Monaros and VXR8s are not Opels/Vauxhalls. So they don't count. And they are not necessarily better. They are just faster, since they have bigger engines. ;)
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Jokes aside - IMO, carltons and senators (of all generations) had more style than omega. However, omega is far more better and rafined car.
Also, PFL was quite nice car in mid 90s. Interior was great. Outside, some parts are not best designed and 'feel' cheap and not sturdy IMO (front bumper, side skirts).
FLs, on the other hand, are too much modifed to keep up with then current design, that it is almost new design (probably that's why many call it Omega C). IMO, it was learning old dog new tricks.
The problem with the FL cars is that they look like every other car out there from that time and the 90's. Nothing original about the front or the rear. It is the definition of ordinary if you ask me.
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Interior of the Monaro is better, seats are better too. Looks nicer too, just pity of the tiny boot.
I beg to disagree. It was only in the very latest Commodore/VXR8 that the interior looks any good IMO. Since they started following the U.S. GM style with the separated dials ala Camaro. But up until then and especially the Commodores and Monaros during the Omega's time, they all had 90's Honda Civic dashboards. Just so mundane. The seats, if it's a HSV and not the ones all chaved up with the bright colours, yes. The seats are nicer in the HSV versions. But not the whole interior. Both PFL/MFL and FL dashboards are better looking IMO. They look like a dash should look in a car of that type. Not like a hot hatch dash. :y
The Monaro is bland in and out. It makes a New Edge Mustang look like a car from the future too. ;D
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
Most car owners don't care(if they even know) which end their car drives. Mass market manufacturers stopped making large RWD cars because they had stopped making small and medium sized RWD cars to share parts. The Omega was built on an ancient and obsolete platform that shared nothing with the rest of the range except its engines. Its replacement was always going to be based on a FWD platform, and the ever increasing size of model replacements meant the Insignia did just that. The facelift was a budget way of stretching out a tired looking range until that happened. The original Omega interior has dated really badly, whereas the only thing that a F/L dash is 'missing' to look up to date is a large screen.
I think the FL interior looks more "old man's car" than the PFL/MFL. The PFL/MFL is more sporty.
If we are talking about the cloth versions, the FL has a slight advantage because of the door cards. That is if it's one of the non wood effect versions which look much better. The large phony wood on the middle makes it look even more conservative.
Now with the full leather interiors, the PFL/MFL wins hands down. :y Very sporty and still looks great today. It looks like a super saloon interior even if the performance from the engine is not there. Not contemporary looking but still looks great. The FL doesn't look contemporary either. A screen wouldn't make it do. Look at the 2017 Mercs, Audi and BMWs. A screen would just look like an add-on.
At least the full leather MFL/PFL in black and no wood effect looks great even if it doesn't look contemporary. :y
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Oh, and re: the 'Senator problem' indeed, the separate model was a brilliant idea, not forgetting the Senny, aside from sharing underpinnings and engines, also shared stuff like front doors, which many people can't believe, they are so artfully and skillfully styled, they appear much bigger on the road and totally different cars. Anyone who has seen the front end of a Senny grafted on a Carlton will know how close they are.
But clearly for the magic 'cost' reasons, they decided not to pursue a model up above the Carlton/Omega A. Presumably the marketing decision was to make the new Omega move up in the market place, where the Carlton had previously been that slightly bigger than a Cavalier, a bit Antique dealer/Farmer maybe, a slightly workhorse machine, with a bit of comfort. In 1978 when they launched the Carlton, no-one could have imagined just over ten years later there'd be GSi Carltons, super-luxurious ones with full leather, walnut & air-con and then even Lotus turbocharched ones. So perhaps the logical progression was to move the Omega up a notch, meaning that a proposed Senator replacement would itself have to be moved up a notch, meaning directly in the firing line of Merc S-class, which was something they weren't prepared to do/knew it would never wash with customers. (and anyone who said people would pay £40-50k for a Vauxhall would be proven wrong when the Lotus Carlton did not achieve the sales it was hoped to be - the Ferrari F40 outsold it, for instance!)
Of course that's not to say I don't adore the Senny - which I do - and wouldn't have loved to have seen a true replacement - which I would. Look at a Holden Statemsman if you want an idea what it would/could have looked like. :)
I was never a big fan of the Senator. Too conservative looking, besides the Irmscher. To me it was always just a Carlton with a larger arse. It was only as I got a bit older that I started to appreciate it for what it was. But give me a Carlton any day. :y
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They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.
Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?
I think so too. The Omega used to compete against the other affordable luxury saloons. When it was left alone in the market, it had then to compete against Mercs, BMWs and Audis and it just didn't have the badge prestige to do that.
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That was the tragedy, the ''poor mans ----- '' market was disappearing year-on-year. I think I mentioned this in another thread recently, that with more people buying BMW 3-series than Mondeos, the 'Inspirational Britain' thing is well in force. No-one wants to buy a car like an Omega which does everything that the Prestige badged car does - they just buy the prestige badged car in the first place. Even if it is a base model, with half the spec of the equivalent Vauxhall/Ford etc. They're happy with the badge, and can act all snooty to the neighbours.
It's like people who buy an A-Class, or an Audi A1, etc really do think they're buying a car as expensive and exclusive as an SLR, R8 etc...
If memory serves the cost of the Omega facelift was £180mill, compared with Jag who spent £90million on the 'new' X300 in 1994, which was a heavy reskin of the XJ40. Ok, a nowadays modern 'all-new' car is about a £billion. Opel spent apparently 2 Billion Marks (about £880 million) on the Carlton.
So the Omega facelift was sort of big money, sort of cheap, depending on your perspective, and what you think you are getting for your money, so to speak.
Yep! It is mind boggling that there are people who will pay a premium for a FWD Golf sized hatchback car with a worse reputation and track record than a Golf, just because it has a plastic Mercedes badge on it. ::)
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I've always been unsure about badge blindness but it seems to exist, I work with a fella who likes the fact my omega is so clean (normally) and I do look after her, but he keeps on about BMW, Mercedes and Audi build quality.
I don't get it, the omega unlike a 3 series and some Audi and Mercedes products was built in Germany and they are well equipped, well built executive cars that can propel you to way over the national speed limit in comfort.
Is the irony lossednon these people?
If only Opel had developed the V8 there would have been an omega humbling the AMG, RS and M series cars of this world.
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I reckon the Senator 24 valve was a classic. I loved mine. I live near the Haynes motor museum, Sparkford, full of 'classic' cars, recent Jaguars, Bentleys, Daimlers, Rolls Royces, etc, that as a boy I used to covet, able to do 100mph and sold as luxury touring cars. My father had a Ford 10, later replaced by an Austin A4 Somerset.
Inspired by Quentin Wilson, on Top Gear, I bought an ex-police Vauxhall Senator 24v at the Witney Motor Auction. It was a wonderful car, fast, quiet, tough and reliable. The police mechanic said to QW 'we change the brake pads every 2 weeks and the tyres every month. Nothing else on thse cars goes wrong.' I drove mine all over Europe, cruising between 120 and 140mph, with bursts up to 155, when the engine cut out.
Here are four of them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3tmb08t1oz1yy0/senators25%25.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3tmb08t1oz1yy0/senators25%25.jpg?dl=0)
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I've always been unsure about badge blindness but it seems to exist, I work with a fella who likes the fact my omega is so clean (normally) and I do look after her, but he keeps on about BMW, Mercedes and Audi build quality.
I don't get it, the omega unlike a 3 series and some Audi and Mercedes products was built in Germany and they are well equipped, well built executive cars that can propel you to way over the national speed limit in comfort.
Is the irony lossednon these people?
If only Opel had developed the V8 there would have been an omega humbling the AMG, RS and M series cars of this world.
You couldn't be more right. Specially with the bit about some of the "premium" German cars not even being built in Germany.
By the way, there actually was an Omega built which humbled AMGs and M series. :y The Steinmetz Omegas. Problem is they were built in very limited numbers, around 20 or so total and were expensive.
But I fear the Omega V8, had it come out, would be sought after today, but would not have sold well. Because it would be expensive and priced well into Mercedes and BMW territory. Probably one of the reasons GM pulled the plug. If they could not even sell as many Omegas with a Lotus badge as they thought they would, a V8 Opel would be a curiosity at best. Opel should have just done like Vauxhall did and imported the HSV Clubsport and GTS into the continent. But sold it as a Holden or as a Chevrolet at least. Or better, made up a whole new badge. ;)
The only way for Opel to compete is to do like the Japanese did and now Koreans and even French are doing. Start a "premium" badge which sells only upscale models. Mercedes can get way with selling a VW Polo dressed as a premium car because they had the reputation first. But nobody will pay premium money or take anything Opel puts out as serious Premium when something like a Corsa wears the same badge. Badge snobbery as you say is real.
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If I understand correctly Vauxhall and Opel were both sold through U.K. Dealers and ideas of merging the two were abandoned as Opel sales were poor in comparison with Vauxhall badged cars?
With regard to FWD or RWD, the extra push from the back aids getaway but the FWD cars have better traction and a poorer turning circle.
My main focus is on cornering, front or rear wheel drive have similar hadeling charictoistics until you drive round a wet bend.
Ive got 16 years expirance with FWD but I'm only to aware RWD can swap ends and I'm compatibly inexpiranced with that.
I don't push it hard but I have put Dunlop sport tyres on the car as i find they are quite forgiving if you end up near the hadeling limit in other cars.
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I think the big problem for Vauxhall was the lotus Carlton was developed just in time for the recession and the other big hit "joy rideing" and people were consenting on jobs etc?
The VXR8 is a bit PlayStation like but holds its own and I can't help asking would the omega V8 given all its tech, potentially you could justify a high price, it had night vision if memory serves and that's just recently gone in Hitler's taxi (mercadies S class).
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If I understand correctly Vauxhall and Opel were both sold through U.K. Dealers and ideas of merging the two were abandoned as Opel sales were poor in comparison with Vauxhall badged cars?
With regard to FWD or RWD, the extra push from the back aids getaway but the FWD cars have better traction and a poorer turning circle.
My main focus is on cornering, front or rear wheel drive have similar hadeling charictoistics until you drive round a wet bend.
Ive got 16 years expirance with FWD but I'm only to aware RWD can swap ends and I'm compatibly inexpiranced with that.
I don't push it hard but I have put Dunlop sport tyres on the car as i find they are quite forgiving if you end up near the hadeling limit in other cars.
It doesn't really matter what they are badged as. There is only Opel. There are no Vauxhalls. This is the reason I normally refer to them all as Opels. Because that's what they are. Vauxhall is merely a reseller these days. A distributor. Even if they do assemble some of the models. They are all designed in Germany.
As far as which badge has which perception where, in the end you will get the same car. But I would risk to say most people here would look at something with a Vauxhall badge differently than they would an Opel, because they don't know what Vauxhall is. So in the case of an Omega, maybe it would be given a better chance by people here if they saw a Vauxhall badge instead of the known Opel one. This is why you see Opel Omegas with Vauxhall badges. As far I know the same rings true in the UK and even the U.S. Some put Opel badges on Vauxhall Omegas and Cadillac Cateras so people won't dismiss it as only a Vauxhall or only the cheap Cadillac.
FWD and RWD is really only a debate for FWD fans. RWD is better. It just is. And RWD fans know that, or they would just take the easy way out and go FWD. If FWD was better, Formula 1 would drive backwards! ;D
I used to waste time debating that. I no longer do. ;)
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I think the big problem for Vauxhall was the lotus Carlton was developed just in time for the recession and the other big hit "joy rideing" and people were consenting on jobs etc?
The VXR8 is a bit PlayStation like but holds its own and I can't help asking would the omega V8 given all its tech, potentially you could justify a high price, it had night vision if memory serves and that's just recently gone in Hitler's taxi (mercadies S class).
I still think the V8 wouldn't be very popular. Most people with the money to buy it can't see past badges. You need to look no further than Australia where the Holden Commodore, even in AMG-killer HSV guise are sneezed at by snobs for being just a Holden. All they want are BMWs, Mercs etc. In Europe the situation is even worse. The snobbery is even stronger. In Europe the Japanese premium brands didn't even catch like they did in other territories.
Don't get me wrong. I would love for there to have been an Omega V8. But it was a losing proposition for Opel and I guess they saw that.
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The badge snobbery and ignorance of some people is quite funny and ironically helpful to those of us who like or love our main stream cars regardless of make.
Firstly people think there BMW, Mercedes or Audi are the best built because they are German, rarely can people expand the argument yet the premium German express is roughly the same size as the more main stream cars but more expensive and as several of these cars are built across Europe and South Africa you can't really argue German build quality.
Ironically this means the more exclusive cars are the likes of Alfa 166, Omega, Scorpio and the likes dismissed by those rushing off to get a not so exclusive price of German engineering.
The Omega, 166 and Scorpio are therefore a range on classy understated and rare cars
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The only two good things about the Scorpio were dual zone climate control and the fact that you couldn't see the front of it from inside.
Ford couldn't even be arsed to remove the front anti roll bar mounting hardware from the Granada chassis before repanelling it :o
And if you're to include the Alfa166, then don't forget the Citroen XM and the Renault Avantime... all three of which are only of note for their opps you levels of quirkiness.
The Scorpio only really sold through brand loyalty, and I suspect that the Omega only clung on as long as it did because a) it was sold pretty much globally; and b) because it was the Granada replacement that the Scorpio should have been, and so poached a few blue oval customers in the process ::)
Give it time and they'll have their day, but as somebody said in another thread, good quality Police Omega restorations are steadily climbing in value, so it's only a matter of time until the best kept cars follow suit...
Look at the values of early eighties Fords now compared to a decade ago :o
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Fair point about the XM and Renault although I felt the Renault was a bit slab sided, I would say the omega like the senator before it are a couple of the bast kept Vauxhall secrets, the fords of the 90-2000s were in my view a bit plasticky and smacked of poor build quality and cheapness as shown by the amount that rusted away.
I couldn't help feeling Vauxhall seem to have higher standards of fit and finish and the pfl cars looked soft and sculpted and like they belong in the 90s.
I know the FLs have there fans but I can see the issues some have with a curvy body being fitted with square bumpers and mirrors but again I like it, seems to fit with the time ?
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Personally I like the FL, I can see the nice design touches of the PFL but I think the FL made the car look far more modern and in-keeping with other more modern cars of the time. That said, the MV6 Prodrive front bumper looks far better than the standard one to my eye.
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I was refuelling my omega a few months ago and I noticed an old boy admiring the car, when he walked past.
When he came out of the shop he came across the fourcourt and started asking me about the car what's the engine size ? and how long I'd had her? I'm not used to this sort of attention but he told me to look after her
At there height of production Vauxhall/ Opel built just over 2000 cars in 1995-6 and now there are 14/15 2.5 CDs on the road according to how many left.com a future classic, defiantly.