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[anV6]

They had the market to themselves for budget RWD, now Ford and Rover had gone.

Yes but maybe that can be better explained by the fact that that market had simply disappeared?

I think so too. The Omega used to compete against the other affordable luxury saloons. When it was left alone in the market, it had then to compete against Mercs, BMWs and Audis and it just didn't have the badge prestige to do that.

[anV6]

That was the tragedy, the ''poor mans ----- '' market was disappearing year-on-year. I think I mentioned this in another thread recently, that with more people buying BMW 3-series than Mondeos, the 'Inspirational Britain' thing is well in force. No-one wants to buy a car like an Omega which does everything that the Prestige badged car does - they just buy the prestige badged car in the first place. Even if it is a base model, with half the spec of the equivalent Vauxhall/Ford etc. They're happy with the badge, and can act all snooty to the neighbours.

It's like people who buy an A-Class, or an Audi A1, etc really do think they're buying a car as expensive and exclusive as an SLR, R8 etc...

If memory serves the cost of the Omega facelift was £180mill, compared with Jag who spent £90million on the 'new' X300 in 1994, which was a heavy reskin of the XJ40. Ok, a nowadays modern 'all-new' car is about a £billion. Opel spent apparently 2 Billion Marks (about £880 million) on the Carlton.

So the Omega facelift was sort of big money, sort of cheap, depending on your perspective, and what you think you are getting for your money, so to speak.

Yep! It is mind boggling that there are people who will pay a premium for a FWD Golf sized hatchback car with a worse reputation and track record than a Golf, just because it has a plastic Mercedes badge on it.

[Pmacca2000]

I've always been unsure about badge blindness but it seems to exist, I work with a fella who likes the fact my omega is so clean (normally) and I do look after her,  but he keeps on about BMW, Mercedes and Audi build quality.
I don't get it, the omega unlike a 3 series and some Audi and Mercedes products was built in Germany and they are well equipped, well built executive cars that can propel you to way over the national speed limit in comfort.
Is the irony lossednon these people?
If only Opel had developed the V8 there would have been an omega humbling the AMG, RS and M series cars of this world.

[terry paget]

I reckon the Senator 24 valve was a classic. I loved mine. I live near the Haynes motor museum, Sparkford, full of 'classic' cars, recent Jaguars, Bentleys, Daimlers, Rolls Royces, etc, that as a boy I used to covet, able to do 100mph and sold as luxury touring cars. My father had a Ford 10, later replaced by an Austin A4 Somerset.
Inspired by Quentin Wilson, on Top Gear, I bought an ex-police Vauxhall Senator 24v at the Witney Motor Auction. It was a wonderful car, fast, quiet, tough and reliable. The police mechanic said to QW 'we change the brake pads every 2 weeks and the tyres every month. Nothing else on thse cars goes wrong.' I drove mine all over Europe, cruising between 120 and 140mph, with bursts up to 155, when the engine cut out.
Here are four of them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3tmb08t1oz1yy0/senators25%25.jpg?dl=0

[anV6]

I've always been unsure about badge blindness but it seems to exist, I work with a fella who likes the fact my omega is so clean (normally) and I do look after her,  but he keeps on about BMW, Mercedes and Audi build quality.
I don't get it, the omega unlike a 3 series and some Audi and Mercedes products was built in Germany and they are well equipped, well built executive cars that can propel you to way over the national speed limit in comfort.
Is the irony lossednon these people?
If only Opel had developed the V8 there would have been an omega humbling the AMG, RS and M series cars of this world.

You couldn't be more right.  Specially with the bit about some of the "premium" German cars not even being built in Germany.

By the way, there actually was an Omega built which humbled AMGs and M series.  The Steinmetz Omegas. Problem is they were built in very limited numbers, around 20 or so total and were expensive.

But I fear the Omega V8, had it come out, would be sought after today, but would not have sold well. Because it would be expensive and priced well into Mercedes and BMW territory. Probably one of the reasons GM pulled the plug. If they could not even sell as many Omegas with a Lotus badge as they thought they would, a V8 Opel would be a curiosity at best. Opel should have just done like Vauxhall did and imported the HSV Clubsport and GTS into the continent. But sold it as a Holden or as a Chevrolet at least. Or better, made up a whole new badge. 

The only way for Opel to compete is to do like the Japanese did and now Koreans and even French are doing. Start a "premium" badge which sells only upscale models. Mercedes can get way with selling a VW Polo dressed as a premium car because they had the reputation first. But nobody will pay premium money or take anything Opel puts out as serious Premium when something like a Corsa wears the same badge.  Badge snobbery as you say is real.

[Pmacca2000]

If I understand correctly Vauxhall and Opel were both sold through U.K. Dealers and ideas of merging the two were abandoned as Opel sales were poor in comparison with Vauxhall badged cars?
With regard to FWD or RWD, the extra push from the back aids getaway but the FWD cars have better traction and a poorer turning circle.
My main focus is on cornering, front or rear wheel drive have similar hadeling charictoistics until you drive round a wet bend.
Ive got 16 years expirance with FWD but I'm only to aware RWD can swap ends and I'm compatibly inexpiranced with that.
I don't push it hard but I have put Dunlop sport tyres on the car as i find they are quite forgiving if you end up near the hadeling limit in other cars.

[Pmacca2000]

I think the big problem for Vauxhall was the lotus Carlton was developed just in time for the recession and the other big hit "joy rideing" and people were consenting on jobs etc?
The VXR8 is a bit PlayStation like but holds its own and I can't help asking would the omega V8 given all its tech, potentially you could justify a high price, it had night vision if memory serves and that's just recently gone in Hitler's taxi (mercadies S class).

[anV6]

If I understand correctly Vauxhall and Opel were both sold through U.K. Dealers and ideas of merging the two were abandoned as Opel sales were poor in comparison with Vauxhall badged cars?
With regard to FWD or RWD, the extra push from the back aids getaway but the FWD cars have better traction and a poorer turning circle.
My main focus is on cornering, front or rear wheel drive have similar hadeling charictoistics until you drive round a wet bend.
Ive got 16 years expirance with FWD but I'm only to aware RWD can swap ends and I'm compatibly inexpiranced with that.
I don't push it hard but I have put Dunlop sport tyres on the car as i find they are quite forgiving if you end up near the hadeling limit in other cars.

It doesn't really matter what they are badged as. There is only Opel. There are no Vauxhalls. This is the reason I normally refer to them all as Opels. Because that's what they are. Vauxhall is merely a reseller these days. A distributor. Even if they do assemble some of the models. They are all designed in Germany.

As far as which badge has which perception where, in the end you will get the same car. But I would risk to say most people here would look at something with a Vauxhall badge differently than they would an Opel, because they don't know what Vauxhall is. So in the case of an Omega, maybe it would be given a better chance by people here if they saw a Vauxhall badge instead of the known Opel one. This is why you see Opel Omegas with Vauxhall badges. As far I know the same rings true in the UK and even the U.S. Some put Opel badges on Vauxhall Omegas and Cadillac Cateras so people won't dismiss it as only a Vauxhall or only the cheap Cadillac.

FWD and RWD is really only a debate for FWD fans. RWD is better. It just is. And RWD fans know that, or they would just take the easy way out and go FWD.  If FWD was better, Formula 1 would drive backwards!

I used to waste time debating that. I no longer do. 

[anV6]

I think the big problem for Vauxhall was the lotus Carlton was developed just in time for the recession and the other big hit "joy rideing" and people were consenting on jobs etc?
The VXR8 is a bit PlayStation like but holds its own and I can't help asking would the omega V8 given all its tech, potentially you could justify a high price, it had night vision if memory serves and that's just recently gone in Hitler's taxi (mercadies S class).

 I still think the V8 wouldn't be very popular. Most people with the money to buy it can't see past badges. You need to look no further than Australia where the Holden Commodore, even in AMG-killer HSV guise are sneezed at by snobs for being just a Holden. All they want are BMWs, Mercs etc. In Europe the situation is even worse. The snobbery is even stronger. In Europe the Japanese premium brands didn't even catch like they did in other territories.

Don't get me wrong. I would love for there to have been an Omega V8. But it was a losing proposition for Opel and I guess they saw that.

[Pmacca2000]

The badge snobbery and ignorance of some people is quite funny and ironically helpful to those of us who like or love our main stream cars regardless of make.
Firstly people think there BMW, Mercedes or Audi are the best built because they are German, rarely can people expand the argument yet the premium German express is roughly the same size as the more main stream cars but more expensive and as several of these cars are built across Europe and South Africa you can't really argue German build quality.

Ironically this means the more exclusive cars are the likes of Alfa 166, Omega, Scorpio and the likes dismissed by those rushing off to get a not so exclusive price of German engineering.

The Omega, 166 and Scorpio are therefore a range on classy understated and rare cars

[Doctor Gollum]

The only two good things about the Scorpio were dual zone climate control and the fact that you couldn't see the front of it from inside.

Ford couldn't even be arsed to remove the front anti roll bar mounting hardware from the Granada chassis before repanelling it

And if you're to include the Alfa166, then don't forget the Citroen XM and the Renault Avantime... all three of which are only of note for their opps you levels of quirkiness.

The Scorpio only really sold through brand loyalty, and I suspect that the Omega only clung on as long as it did because a) it was sold pretty much globally; and b) because it was the Granada replacement that the Scorpio should have been, and so poached a few blue oval customers in the process

Give it time and they'll have their day, but as somebody said in another thread, good quality Police Omega restorations are steadily climbing in value, so it's only a matter of time until the best kept cars follow suit...

Look at the values of early eighties Fords now compared to a decade ago

[Pmacca2000]

Fair point about the XM and Renault although I felt the Renault was a bit slab sided, I would say the omega like the senator before it are a couple of the bast kept Vauxhall secrets, the fords of the 90-2000s were in my view a bit plasticky and smacked of poor build quality and cheapness as shown by the amount that rusted away.

I couldn't help feeling Vauxhall seem to have higher standards of fit and finish and the pfl cars looked soft and sculpted and like they belong in the 90s.
I know the FLs have there fans but I can see the issues some have with a curvy body being fitted with square bumpers and mirrors but again I like it, seems to fit with the time ?

[VXL V6]

Personally I like the FL, I can see the nice design touches of the PFL but I think the FL made the car look far more modern and in-keeping with other more modern cars of the time. That said, the MV6 Prodrive front bumper looks far better than the standard one to my eye.
 

[Pmacca2000]

I was refuelling my omega a few months ago and I noticed an old boy admiring the car, when he walked past.
When he came out of the shop he came across the fourcourt and started asking me about the car what's the engine size ? and how long I'd  had her? I'm not used to this sort of attention but he told me to look after her
At there height of production Vauxhall/ Opel built  just over 2000 cars in 1995-6 and now there are 14/15 2.5 CDs on the road according to how many left.com a future classic, defiantly.