Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 20 March 2017, 12:12:24
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During the campaign I don't recall 'leave' or 'remain' make any mention of this. I've heard figures of between 20 billion and 60 billion spoken of.
Why do we (and why should we) pay any exit fees?
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They will probably be insignificant compared to what we are likely to have to contribute to stay in a reasonable trading position with Europe.
These 'potential' fees will most likely relate to commitments already made such as loans to other countries (e.g. Ireland), pension contributions to EU staff, research funding commitments etc etc,
No different to you or I ending a contract early
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60 billion pounds doesn't really bring it home, so......
£60,000,000,000
That's quite a lot.
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It's only money..😂😂😂
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It's only money..😂😂😂
Of course. We can afford it. Look at how well our public services are funded. And the NHS....well.........I believe they're going to start prescribing £50 notes for alcoholics to free up A&E. ;D
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Did a course last week in Rugby, has changed my whole attitude to life .😉
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Did a course last week in Rugby, has changed my whole attitude to life .😉
A course in rugby? The rules are quite hard to understand but going on a course seems like a waste of public money to me. >:(
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Did a course last week in Rugby, has changed my whole attitude to life .😉
I understand its pronounced Drugby
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Did a course last week in Rugby, has changed my whole attitude to life .😉
A course in rugby? The rules are quite hard to understand but going on a course seems like a waste of public money to me. >:(
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I enjoyed all of it & so did the other 13 Officers so money well spent .
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Did a course last week in Rugby, has changed my whole attitude to life .😉
A course in rugby? The rules are quite hard to understand but going on a course seems like a waste of public money to me. >:(
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I enjoyed all of it & so did the other 13 Officers so money well spent .
Well.......you didn't learn much, because even I know a team should have 13 or 15 players, not 14!
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60 billion pounds doesn't really bring it home, so......
£60,000,000,000
That's quite a lot.
It's one million pounds sixty thousand times over. Hardly loose change.
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I suppose we could tell the EU to *uck off and see what happens. :)
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I suppose we could tell the EU to *uck off and see what happens. :)
They said they won't even talk to us if we don't agree that some sort of settlement should be reached. They'll just ignore us and pretend we don't exist. They'll just put water on their maps where the UK used to be. ;D
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I suppose we could tell the EU to *uck off and see what happens. :)
They said they won't even talk to us if we don't agree that some sort of settlement should be reached. They'll just ignore us and pretend we don't exist. They'll just put pish on their maps where the UK used to be. ;D
I think they've mostly done this anyway. :P
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I suppose we could tell the EU to *uck off and see what happens. :)
They said they won't even talk to us if we don't agree that some sort of settlement should be reached. They'll just ignore us and pretend we don't exist. They'll just put pish on their maps where the UK used to be. ;D
I think they've mostly done this anyway. :P
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Quite agree .
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I can acceptsome exit fees as reasonable e.g. Pension liabilities but they are a mere bagatelle compared with the UKs settlement. I am not talking about just having a share of tangible easily sold assets like the 21,000 bottles of fine wines and cognac in the Brussels cellars but making the EU countries sell some of their assets that just a few countries including the UK funded. Wont happen? I dont see why not, they are making Greece sell their family silver.
No afterreality sets in the figure will be a lot less than 60 billion. I would also question whether the shares / costs are gdp related or 1/28th. All in a nice way as we all needtotrade with each other after 2019. Druncker will be gone by then too.
On the same topic, i see the UK government is going to drown with 15 brexit bills over and above the normal 20 perannum. I hate toliken it to war but there are some similiarities. Get a grip and make stuff happen just like we did in war times. E.g. Make Parliament forego their recess..delegate some work to Sturgeon for a start then she will be so busy and not have time tofoment.
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The problem is, the EU budget is only set every 7 years (I think) and then tweaked annually. So we have to pay for what we've committed to for a full budget term.
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I suppose we could tell the EU to *uck off and see what happens. :)
They said they won't even talk to us if we don't agree that some sort of settlement should be reached. They'll just ignore us and pretend we don't exist. They'll just put water on their maps where the UK used to be. ;D
Then we just leave and tell them if they want to trade with us, let us know.*
There has been a lot of talk on both sides from various people about what the other side must do, but the real, actual negotiating will start soon. Its like prefight talk from boxers. Doesn't mean a thing.
*Probably defaulting to WTO rules, which despite all the recent negative publicity, is how we do much, or possibly most, of our trade already.
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Does it really matter, if them lot over there ignore us, we can get everything we need from the old commonwealth. Even cars. Oil n gas from Donald trumped, wheat from Canada, fruit n veg from Africa.
And if we don't pay what they going to do, start another war, they've lost 2,.
Doesn't look good for das Reich.
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I can acceptsome exit fees as reasonable e.g. Pension liabilities but they are a mere bagatelle compared with the UKs settlement. I am not talking about just having a share of tangible easily sold assets like the 21,000 bottles of fine wines and cognac in the Brussels cellars but making the EU countries sell some of their assets that just a few countries including the UK funded. Wont happen? I dont see why not, they are making Greece sell their family silver.
No afterreality sets in the figure will be a lot less than 60 billion. I would also question whether the shares / costs are gdp related or 1/28th. All in a nice way as we all needtotrade with each other after 2019. Druncker will be gone by then too.
On the same topic, i see the UK government is going to drown with 15 brexit bills over and above the normal 20 perannum. I hate toliken it to war but there are some similiarities. Get a grip and make stuff happen just like we did in war times. E.g. Make Parliament forego their recess..delegate some work to Sturgeon for a start then she will be so busy and not have time tofoment.
Has this Druncker fella been using your keyboard?
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I can acceptsome exit fees as reasonable e.g. Pension liabilities but they are a mere bagatelle compared with the UKs settlement. I am not talking about just having a share of tangible easily sold assets like the 21,000 bottles of fine wines and cognac in the Brussels cellars but making the EU countries sell some of their assets that just a few countries including the UK funded. Wont happen? I dont see why not, they are making Greece sell their family silver.
No afterreality sets in the figure will be a lot less than 60 billion. I would also question whether the shares / costs are gdp related or 1/28th. All in a nice way as we all needtotrade with each other after 2019. Druncker will be gone by then too.
On the same topic, i see the UK government is going to drown with 15 brexit bills over and above the normal 20 perannum. I hate toliken it to war but there are some similiarities. Get a grip and make stuff happen just like we did in war times. E.g. Make Parliament forego their recess..delegate some work to Sturgeon for a start then she will be so busy and not have time tofoment.
Has this Druncker fella been using your keyboard?
Normally yes but on this occasion it was deliberate. ;D
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According to John Redwood MP there are no treaty obligations for ANY exit fees and we should politely tell the EU commission where to stick them. Hopefully, where the sun don't shine. ;D ;D ;D
The worst case scenario when we leave is no agreement and having to trade under WTO rules. These tariffs are generally in the order of 3.5 to 5% with the exception of agricultural produce which can be up to 40% and cars which are 9%.
Now these tariffs apply for imports and exports and we have a massive trade deficit with the EU in food and cars where we import much more than we export, so our taxes will get a boost as a result and EU goods will become more expensive. As the trade balance is in the EU's favour we can use the revenue we collect on their imports to subsidise our exports to the EU so our prices in Europe don't go up and pocket the difference. :) :) ;D ;D This disadvantage is that our food goes up in price, except it won't if we conclude trade deals with food exporting countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, US, South America and Africa where our food prices from these countries are currently at EU support CAP and inefficient French farmers tariff rates of up to 40%, which will post-EU be set at whatever rate we agree in our bilateral trade agreements with these countries. So in reality expect our food prices to fall by at least 15% from their current ones. :y :y :y I'm sure French farmers will quietly take it on the chin as they build up huge food mountains where they have never been known to protest or riot to protect their vested interests. ::) ::) ::)
The reality is the EU commission will work as hard as possible to punish us for leaving as they can't lose their appointed jobs via the ballot box, the inverse applies to democratically elected governments in the member countries which is why several governments are behind the scenes already working on their negotiating postions for trade agreements with the UK, especially the Germans where we are their third biggest export market. When it comes to EU economics, Germany has since 2008 ALWAYS been in the driving seat and have forced through what they want. Bloody mindlessness, rising unemployment and being in a recession for at best in most of the EU marginally growing economies, due largely to the EU and Euro policies puts Europe in the weaker position. Having to face the ballot box under these conditions means imo the the EU countries governments will be pragmatic and will win this battle against the EU commission. :y :y :y
Junker will have to console himself by drinking the new EU wine lake dry, where we are buying our wine from the rest of the new world. ;D ;D ;D
We are actually in the much stronger negotiating position, with much due imo to the EU bias against the UK in their single market in goods but only in a very limited way in our strength of services, so we have progressively had a worsening trade balance with them. Leaving the EU means this changes to being a negotiating strength. :y :y :y
Another potential boost with leaving the EU is that we can dump their crazy, industrially suicidal, when competing with most of the rest of the world, by dumping their tree hugger, plant food centric energy policies, so our industries have much cheaper energy prices. Like the US this will onshore much heavy industry we have lost due to our uneconomic energy cost compared to much of the globe. :y :y :y
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
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Trend?
Theresa May could create a trading block and call it the common European market as part of the negotiations.whizzo idea.
Incidentally the Spanish have been courting the Germans to come to Spainon holiday to make up the predicted shortfall in UK visitors to Spain. The notion is that with the pound lower less Brits can afford a holiday.
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
How do you think they screw us, without shooting themselves in both feet?
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
How do you think they screw us, without shooting themselves in both feet?
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Politics may trump economics. :)
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
How do you think they screw us, without shooting themselves in both feet?
I understand the argument that Germany (cars), France (wine) etc need us as an export market. But article 50 terms have to be agreed by every member state. Including the likes of Poland and Romania who have very little to export but a lot of interest in what happens to the rights of their citizens to work here.
So just because the Germans may want a good trading deal with us, surely that doesn't mean article 50 will produce one.
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
How do you think they screw us, without shooting themselves in both feet?
I understand the argument that Germany (cars), France (wine) etc need us as an export market. But article 50 terms have to be agreed by every member state. Including the likes of Poland and Romania who have very little to export but a lot of interest in what happens to the rights of their citizens to work here.
So just because the Germans may want a good trading deal with us, surely that doesn't mean article 50 will produce one.
I think the "they sell more to us than we sell to them" argument is overplayed. As Jimmy says we have to find common ground with 27 other countries.
There will be tears before bedtime as my grandmother used to say. But we are Great Britain and will succeed in the end. :y
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
How do you think they screw us, without shooting themselves in both feet?
I understand the argument that Germany (cars), France (wine) etc need us as an export market. But article 50 terms have to be agreed by every member state. Including the likes of Poland and Romania who have very little to export but a lot of interest in what happens to the rights of their citizens to work here.
So just because the Germans may want a good trading deal with us, surely that doesn't mean article 50 will produce one.
Some UK manufacturing has moved to Poland, despite Kraft takeover assurances on Cadbury's chocolates production, they have been moved from Birmingham to Poland. >:(
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Doesn't really matter whether we pay all, some or none of it, we gonna get screwed over anyway over the exit process.
Not exactly going make it easy for us to leave, in case it starts a trend.
How do you think they screw us, without shooting themselves in both feet?
I understand the argument that Germany (cars), France (wine) etc need us as an export market. But article 50 terms have to be agreed by every member state. Including the likes of Poland and Romania who have very little to export but a lot of interest in what happens to the rights of their citizens to work here.
So just because the Germans may want a good trading deal with us, surely that doesn't mean article 50 will produce one.
I think the "they sell more to us than we sell to them" argument is overplayed. As Jimmy says we have to find common ground with 27 other countries.
There will be tears before bedtime as my grandmother used to say. But we are Great Britain and will succeed in the end. :y
I disagree. The areas that most concern me are where we have to recreate new system where we have passed the administration to the EU or where we are part of the Customs Union so they have no longer been needed. The obvious one is much bigger customs facilities at our Eastern ports, but also a whole raft of other systems, for example we passed our certification of aircraft parts to an EU institution and as one of the globes biggest aircraft parts suppliers we will need the UK equivalent or this supply chain will grind to a halt. :o
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CAA still exists and standards are notably higher than EASA ;)
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According to John Redwood MP there are no treaty obligations for ANY exit fees and we should politely tell the EU commission where to stick them. Hopefully, where the sun don't shine. ;D ;D ;D
The worst case scenario when we leave is no agreement and having to trade under WTO rules. These tariffs are generally in the order of 3.5 to 5% with the exception of agricultural produce which can be up to 40% and cars which are 9%.
Now these tariffs apply for imports and exports and we have a massive trade deficit with the EU in food and cars where we import much more than we export, so our taxes will get a boost as a result and EU goods will become more expensive. As the trade balance is in the EU's favour we can use the revenue we collect on their imports to subsidise our exports to the EU so our prices in Europe don't go up and pocket the difference. :) :) ;D ;D This disadvantage is that our food goes up in price, except it won't if we conclude trade deals with food exporting countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, US, South America and Africa where our food prices from these countries are currently at EU support CAP and inefficient French farmers tariff rates of up to 40%, which will post-EU be set at whatever rate we agree in our bilateral trade agreements with these countries. So in reality expect our food prices to fall by at least 15% from their current ones. :y :y :y I'm sure French farmers will quietly take it on the chin as they build up huge food mountains where they have never been known to protest or riot to protect their vested interests. ::) ::) ::)
The reality is the EU commission will work as hard as possible to punish us for leaving as they can't lose their appointed jobs via the ballot box, the inverse applies to democratically elected governments in the member countries which is why several governments are behind the scenes already working on their negotiating postions for trade agreements with the UK, especially the Germans where we are their third biggest export market. When it comes to EU economics, Germany has since 2008 ALWAYS been in the driving seat and have forced through what they want. Bloody mindlessness, rising unemployment and being in a recession for at best in most of the EU marginally growing economies, due largely to the EU and Euro policies puts Europe in the weaker position. Having to face the ballot box under these conditions means imo the the EU countries governments will be pragmatic and will win this battle against the EU commission. :y :y :y
Junker will have to console himself by drinking the new EU wine lake dry, where we are buying our wine from the rest of the new world. ;D ;D ;D
We are actually in the much stronger negotiating position, with much due imo to the EU bias against the UK in their single market in goods but only in a very limited way in our strength of services, so we have progressively had a worsening trade balance with them. Leaving the EU means this changes to being a negotiating strength. :y :y :y
Another potential boost with leaving the EU is that we can dump their crazy, industrially suicidal, when competing with most of the rest of the world, by dumping their tree hugger, plant food centric energy policies, so our industries have much cheaper energy prices. Like the US this will onshore much heavy industry we have lost due to our uneconomic energy cost compared to much of the globe. :y :y :y
Mad as March hare that fella. ;)
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Not quite. Intelligent, but undeniably odd / strange. ;)
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Not quite. Intelligent, but undeniably odd / strange. ;)
.... and slightly sinister. :-\
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To a "remainer" like me (I know in a 48% minority of the few that actually voted!! ::)) I see the costs of leaving the UK as being far, far greater than any leaving fees. The cost to jobs, the prices we pay for goods, and the cutting off of a plentiful supply of labour for our industries, along with the possible break up of the Union, is going to be horrendous and madness To repeat the words of Robert Wallpole during the South Sea Bubble, " They ring their bells now, soon they will be wringing their hands".
As a proud Tory, I must admit I like the approach being given to Brexit by Tony Blair. He supports correctly the idea we must have another vote on Brexit once all the FACTS of our potential leaving are known by the general public and politicians alike.
To me blindly walking into a potential disaster for Britain because a small majority of the public voted for it before they really knew them without an escape plan is absolute nonsense. ::)
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To a "remainer" like me (I know in a 48% minority of the few that actually voted!! ::)) I see the costs of leaving the UK as being far, far greater than any leaving fees. The cost to jobs, the prices we pay for goods, and the cutting off of a plentiful supply of labour for our industries, along with the possible break up of the Union, is going to be horrendous and madness To repeat the words of Robert Wallpole during the South Sea Bubble, " They ring their bells now, soon they will be wringing their hands".
As a proud Tory, I must admit I like the approach being given to Brexit by Tony Blair. He supports correctly the idea we must have another vote on Brexit once all the FACTS of our potential leaving are known by the general public and politicians alike.
To me blindly walking into a potential disaster for Britain because a small majority of the public voted for it before they really knew them without an escape plan is absolute nonsense. ::)
Tough, it's going to happen, so live with it.
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Think you'll find that TonE B Liars opinion is worth about as much airtime as the undigested sweet corn I ate three days ago.
And I though you were sensible ::)
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Think you'll find that TonE B Liars opinion is worth about as much airtime as the undigested sweet corn I ate three days ago.
And I though you were sensible ::)
I am. Just keeping an open questioning mind ;)
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Open to the opinion of a treasonous tunc who should have long lost the freedom to breathe, let alone speak... ???
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Tough, it's going to happen, so live with it.
Quite so.
Until the campaign to rejoin gets off the ground ;)
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Open to the opinion of a treasonous tunc who should have long lost the freedom to breathe, let alone speak... ???
.........and he was the most successful Labour Prime Minister who was voted in on three occasions by a land slide initially and kept winning......and I am a Tory who recognised what a sweeping force he was that now Labour sadly lack. Love him or, yes, hate him, he would be now an effective opposition. ;)
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'dangle berries', utter 'dangle berries'. He (sadly) had no competition and being elected to three straight terms only occurred by bribing the scrounging electorate. We're still paying for it now both at home and abroad >:(
The only way is Out and we're going regardless.
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Open to the opinion of a treasonous tunc who should have long lost the freedom to breathe, let alone speak... ???
.........and he was the most successful Labour Prime Minister who was voted in on three occasions by a land slide initially and kept winning......and I am a Tory who recognised what a sweeping force he was that now Labour sadly lack. Love him or, yes, hate him, he would be now an effective opposition. ;)
So how come his recent announcement that only he could show the country why they were too stupid to vote the right way received a couple of days derision, and he's slunk off in a sulk?
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Let's not
argue even discuss the matter. It is done and dusted and remoaners like nothing better than to....well....moan. Let's focus on how we can get rid of umin rights and abolish benefits. ;D
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To a "remainer" like me (I know in a 48% minority of the few that actually voted!! ::)) I see the costs of leaving the UK as being far, far greater than any leaving fees. The cost to jobs, the prices we pay for goods, and the cutting off of a plentiful supply of labour for our industries, along with the possible break up of the Union, is going to be horrendous and madness To repeat the words of Robert Wallpole during the South Sea Bubble, " They ring their bells now, soon they will be wringing their hands".
As a proud Tory, I must admit I like the approach being given to Brexit by Tony Blair. He supports correctly the idea we must have another vote on Brexit once all the FACTS of our potential leaving are known by the general public and politicians alike.
To me blindly walking into a potential disaster for Britain because a small majority of the public voted for it before they really knew them without an escape plan is absolute nonsense. ::)
Are you by any chance related to that "Jimmy Krankee" character from north of the border Lizzie ? We've had the referendum . . . .we're leaving & the Scots are leaving with us . . . end of ;)
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Tough, it's going to happen, so live with it.
Quite so.
Until the campaign to rejoin gets off the ground ;)
Yea like that's ever going happen or change anything.
You got more chance of Trump being burned by the stake for Treason by the CIA, ...... actually cancel that that probably will happen.
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Ever is a long time Zirk.
Remember the reaction dear ol Nigel got when he told the European Parliament he was taking us out ;D
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Unfortunately the EU will be a constant running sore in this country regardless of how BREXIT turns out, as there will always be those who would take us back in. ::)
The only event that can heal this sore is the demise of the EU itself, and I wouldn't bet against that happening. ;)
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Nor would I.
A complete dissolution seems unlikely, but some sort of 2 tier system on the other hand...
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Two speed EU? You mean like some countries have open door policy on migrants with others hounding them?
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Unfortunately the EU will be a constant running sore in this country regardless of how BREXIT turns out, as there will always be those who would take us back in. ::)
The only event that can heal this sore is the demise of the EU itself, and I wouldn't bet against that happening. ;)
I firmly believe that its only a matter of time before the EU implodes. If Le Pen wins in France it will happen within 5 years at most. If she doesn't, I would give it 10 at most.
The UK wont break up either. If they had a referendum now they would vote to remain.
If they don't get one for 5-10 years, the EU may well be gone, and if it isn't it will be one horrendous mess, that no-one would want to join.
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Unfortunately the EU will be a constant running sore in this country regardless of how BREXIT turns out, as there will always be those who would take us back in. ::)
The only event that can heal this sore is the demise of the EU itself, and I wouldn't bet against that happening. ;)
Netherlands, a fairly close call with right winger Wilders doing not bad at all
France, Le Pen in No 2 position at present
Others have a quite an anti EU element going on in various guises
I certainly don't consider myself hard right wing at all, but most right wingers want out of the EU
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As do genuine left wingers*, as opposed to neo Blairite types.
Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Barbara Castle, Peter Shore, Neil Kinnock before he sold his soul. Even Tony Blair, before his ego grew into a mental illness which convinced him he is entitled to run the world, and nation states were parochial little entities which could inhibit the process.
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Ever is a long time Zirk.
Remember the reaction dear ol Nigel got when he told the European Parliament he was taking us out ;D
Exactly. In politics a week is a long time, and you can never say never. The last year has proved that.
My comments have stirred the very comments I thought they would. This Forum never changes with some dug in to their beliefs and never wanting to discuss other possibilities, but insult those who have.
ALL I am saying, as my unlikely "hero" Tony Blair is, that we should keep our minds open and be ready to rethink any fundamental changes that a Hard Brexit will bring to our proud nation. We must never just say to ourselves "well it is done and dusted and no matter how it is going to effect my family let's just live with it". Thank God strong people have always been there in British history to question, whilst not being scared by the insulting detractors, and take another route. Whilst talking about Tony Blair never forget he created the political will for the Good Friday Agreement and be the first PM to finally bring the mayhem that was Northern Ireland to an end with opposing parties talking to each other.
Things change in politics, and in the case of Europe that, yes I agree, may well implode in the future, vital elements of leaving that organisation, that is far from perfect, like democracy itself, must always be kept in mind as we leap out. Walk around your supermarket doing your "big shop" and you will readily experience one result of Brexit before it happens; prices have shot up, with a devalued pound in your pocket. Is that not worthy of further consideration by the public before they allow the politicians to go ahead with "out"? Or perhaps we should do what politicians normally do and just go ahead with a policy, regardless of the majority of public opinion at that point in time, that will wreck the financial security of millions of families.
I am sure STEMO that at Ellesmere Port, along with at Luton, many thousands of Vauxhall workers are now very worried about their future if Brexit happens regardless. What will be the public reaction to our present Government when thousands of Vauxhall, and possibly other motor companies, workers are seen protesting about losing their jobs? Brexit will have an effect on the tarrifs on cars built in Britain, with parts from all over Europe. The temptation of management to bring production back "in house" to the then new shaped Europe to reduce costs, will be enormous. That is just one example of where we are heading.
Therefore is it wrong to keep questioning the worth of Brexit before we finally jump?
I as a Conservative Socialist believe that it is not wrong at all, to keep our minds open, so the British workers get the best deal for their families future.
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Of course we should keep our options open and adapt as we go along. I tongue in cheek suggested that Britaon creates a trading bloc and calls it a common market. But why not? People are entrenched in their views. There is a generation that have been ignored by all political parties as they engage in their own agenda.
We are in the mess we are in now because of complacency. We have all drifted along allowing the EU to become what it has despite so called democracy. The 28 leaders should have adapted to change some years ago, instead they stuck doggedly to their dogma. They were entrenched too as well as shockingly complacent.
Lets not forget that it was our beloved Tories led by Cameron that accidentally opened (thankfully) the can of worms bygambling a sure bet and allowing the plebs (that is us) to vote. Again huge complacency as it transpires that no planning was done for the possibility of it going ou. People should havebeen sacked
It all remindsme of a couple wanting an amicable divorce but thesolicitors etc whip up a frenzy and it all emds up being a mess. Lets hope the negotiators on both sides are sensible and of good metal. I suspect that come the end of 2 years there will be lots of issues unresolved and they will be governed by grandfather rights till resolved.
On a personal note i hope that the situation of EU nationals in UK and us Expats abroad is resolved quickly. It is one thing to have uncertainty over the price of lettuces ( inflated because of floods and bad weather here in Spain) , proce of next New BMW and completely
another to not know if you can afford to continue being a retired expat in France if you have to pay for your healthcare each month or if you can continue picking celery on minimum wage in Norfolk.
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On a personal note i hope that the situation of EU nationals in UK and us Expats abroad is resolved quickly. It is one thing to have uncertainty over the price of lettuces ( inflated because of floods and bad weather here in Spain) , proce of next New BMW and completely
another to not know if you can afford to continue being a retired expat in France if you have to pay for your healthcare each month or if you can continue picking celery on minimum wage in Norfolk.
And shame on Junker, Tusk and Merkel for refusing to do an early deal on peoples rights and futures before A50, when HMG has offered to sit down and resolve this in advance. ::)
Personally, I don't think there will be a deal and I don't think this will be down to the British Government. It was reported yesterday that after A50 is delivered next week there will be an 'Extraordinary Summit' to discuss the EU's response in 4 to 6 weeks time. The wheels of the EU machine grind exceedingly slowly and I doubt that there is little recognition that there is only 18 months to resolve issues that affect peoples lives across Europe. ::) We only have to look at the fiasco that was the Canadian trade deal to see this. ;)
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For the vote, I was in remain camp. Not because I'm pro EU, but because it was the wrong time to leave. It is going to hurt us badly.
But all the mainstream media was behind leaving - every paper and every news bulletin was constantly showing all the immigrants constantly trying to get to Europe, something still going on as much now, but never mentioned, so it was inevitable which way the vote was going.
Being kind, lets say 40% of the voting population has some intelligence, the rest will just vote how the Fail/Sun/Sky/BBC tell them.
But whats done is done, time to kick it off.
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What amuses me is the constant calling for parliament / the electorate to have another vote once we've "negotiated the terms". Has nobody actually looked at what article 50 says? ::)
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Apparently not ;D
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As said before I am a 'remainer' and not a 'remoaner'. We lost. It happens. That's life.
In my opinion it was the young people who 'lost' the vote for remain. Most, but not all, are natural 'remainers' and therein lies the problem. They 'remained' in bed, they 'remained' in the pub, they 'remained' glued to their playstation or X-box etc etc. A bunch of able-bodied lazy bastards who refuse to take adult responsibility and then bleat about it after the event.
I mean, if a shagged-out old fart like STMO can drag himself to the polling station to vote then why couldn't significant numbers of fit eighteen, nineteen, and twenty year olds do the same.
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'dangle berries', utter 'dangle berries'. He (sadly) had no competition and being elected to three straight terms only occurred by bribing the scrounging electorate. We're still paying for it now both at home and abroad >:(
The only way is Out and we're going regardless.
Yes. The standard of the opposition plays a large part in who becomes PM. All Thatcher had to contend with was Michael Foot in 1983 and Kinnock in 1987. She had it easy.
Much the same applies today with Theresa May. She doesn't need to lead or inspire all she needs to do is defeat Jeremy Corbyn. Shouldn't prove insurmountable.
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Yes. The standard of the opposition plays a large part in who becomes PM. All Thatcher had to contend with was Michael Foot in 1983 and Kinnock in 1987. She had it easy.
Much the same applies today with Theresa May. She doesn't need to lead or inspire all she needs to do is defeat Jeremy Corbyn. Shouldn't prove insurmountable.
This is why I suspect we won't see a snap general election. May won't waste the opportunity to batter corbyn at the polls, she'll save it for when she really needs it ;)
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Re Tony Blair. He didn't have much to do with the so called peace process * It was Mo Mowlam who did all the work, with him taking all the credit in front of the cameras at the end.
* It was actually a surrender to the terrorists which involved telling a huge number of lies to the electorate in order to get them to vote for it. It was appeasement, and history shows appeasement never works in the long term. So watch this space.
TB - the members of the media who were in favour of Brexit were - The Daily Mail (but not the Mail on Sunday) The Telegraph, the Express and possibly the Sun. Cant remember about the Sun tbh.
The rest of the printed media and all of the broadcast media were very much in favour of remain.
Many people (myself included) believe it wont hurt us badly, quite the opposite in fact. You and many others believe it will hurt us badly.
None of us has a crysral ball, so we shall just have to wait and see.
At least we are about to become a self governing, independent, democratic nation once again. Is there ever a bad time to to revert to that ?
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A shagged out old fart. That's about right. ;D
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A shagged out old fart. That's about right. ;D
Consider it a term of endearment. :)
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As said before I am a 'remainer' and not a 'remoaner'. We lost. It happens. That's life.
In my opinion it was the young people who 'lost' the vote for remain. Most, but not all, are natural 'remainers' and therein lies the problem. They 'remained' in bed, they 'remained' in the pub, they 'remained' glued to their playstation or X-box etc etc. A bunch of able-bodied lazy bastards who refuse to take adult responsibility and then bleat about it after the event.
I mean, if a shagged-out old fart like STMO can drag himself to the polling station to vote then why couldn't significant numbers of fit eighteen, nineteen, and twenty year olds do the same.
I agree with that. Apathy due to a mistrust of politics by so many of the young made a huge difference. It is a fact that they will be affected most in the long term by whatever transpires. ;)
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To a "remainer" like me (I know in a 48% minority of the few that actually voted!! ::)) I see the costs of leaving the UK as being far, far greater than any leaving fees. The cost to jobs, the prices we pay for goods, and the cutting off of a plentiful supply of labour for our industries, along with the possible break up of the Union, is going to be horrendous and madness To repeat the words of Robert Wallpole during the South Sea Bubble, " They ring their bells now, soon they will be wringing their hands".
As a proud Tory, I must admit I like the approach being given to Brexit by Tony Blair. He supports correctly the idea we must have another vote on Brexit once all the FACTS of our potential leaving are known by the general public and politicians alike.
To me blindly walking into a potential disaster for Britain because a small majority of the public voted for it before they really knew them without an escape plan is absolute nonsense. ::)
Lizzie politics is not about facts but opinions and in a shifting dynamic system there are a few fixed facts, but many dynamically changing ones, as what might apply this week can be completely different next week due to what Macmillan told us "events dear boy events". For Tony BLiar and CaMoron facts were what their daily sound bite said they were. Tomorrow there will bring new sound bites, based on that days 'facts'.
I look forward to when a remoaners prediction actually comes true as project fear was exactly that. The fact that gravity economic models were used for their predictions was totally debunked in a paper by the professor who invented the gravity economic model explaining why it was totally inappropriate for #Brexit, but they used it because it gave the project fear results which was deemed as politically useful to Remainers. The UK engaging and exporting much more with the rest of the world, by creating bilateral trade agreements and boosting mutual trade may actually be the reverse of your pessimism on the future and a new golden age for the UK in much the same way by leaving the gold standard early in the 1930's we did not have a recession / depression like the US and France. Asia, South America and increasingly Africa are where economic growth is really happening and going to continue to happen in the 21st century as they continue to industrialize and because of their population growth.
The Euro is only a half currency and cannot survive in its present form and politically it cannot be reformed to become a proper currency as that would involve the pooling of all national sovereign debts and the ECB issuing bonds, being the bank of last resort and fiscal transfers from richer to poorer areas within the EU. Any German politician agreeing to this would be committing political suicide so it will never happen. The Euro will soldier on until poorer countries leave, which will be forced by the losers in no growth countries or it collapses. The best exit route would actually be for Germany to leave the Euro. The EU as an appointed dictatorship has no interest in economic growth where social engineering is always centre stage with a considerable environmental and climate change slant. Many of the EU policies are quite ruinous for trade which is why the EU global share of trade is dropping twice as fast as that of the US.
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To a "remainer" like me (I know in a 48% minority of the few that actually voted!! ::)) I see the costs of leaving the UK as being far, far greater than any leaving fees. The cost to jobs, the prices we pay for goods, and the cutting off of a plentiful supply of labour for our industries, along with the possible break up of the Union, is going to be horrendous and madness To repeat the words of Robert Wallpole during the South Sea Bubble, " They ring their bells now, soon they will be wringing their hands".
As a proud Tory, I must admit I like the approach being given to Brexit by Tony Blair. He supports correctly the idea we must have another vote on Brexit once all the FACTS of our potential leaving are known by the general public and politicians alike.
To me blindly walking into a potential disaster for Britain because a small majority of the public voted for it before they really knew them without an escape plan is absolute nonsense. ::)
Lizzie politics is not about facts but opinions and in a shifting dynamic system there are a few fixed facts, but many dynamically changing ones, as what might apply this week can be completely different next week due to what Macmillan told us "events dear boy events". For Tony BLiar and CaMoron facts were what their daily sound bite said they were. Tomorrow there will bring new sound bites, based on that days 'facts'.
I look forward to when a remoaners prediction actually comes true as project fear was exactly that. The fact that gravity economic models were used for their predictions was totally debunked in a paper by the professor who invented the gravity economic model explaining why it was totally inappropriate for #Brexit, but they used it because it gave the project fear results which was deemed as politically useful to Remainers. The UK engaging and exporting much more with the rest of the world, by creating bilateral trade agreements and boosting mutual trade may actually be the reverse of your pessimism on the future and a new golden age for the UK in much the same way by leaving the gold standard early in the 1930's we did not have a recession / depression like the US and France. Asia, South America and increasingly Africa are where economic growth is really happening and going to continue to happen in the 21st century as they continue to industrialize and because of their population growth.
The Euro is only a half currency and cannot survive in its present form and politically it cannot be reformed to become a proper currency as that would involve the pooling of all national sovereign debts and the ECB issuing bonds, being the bank of last resort and fiscal transfers from richer to poorer areas within the EU. Any German politician agreeing to this would be committing political suicide so it will never happen. The Euro will soldier on until poorer countries leave, which will be forced by the losers in no growth countries or it collapses. The best exit route would actually be for Germany to leave the Euro. The EU as an appointed dictatorship has no interest in economic growth where social engineering is always centre stage with a considerable environmental and climate change slant. Many of the EU policies are quite ruinous for trade which is why the EU global share of trade is dropping twice as fast as that of the US.
As a student of politics I agree with everything you state Rod. I just have a different take on what Brexit may eventually mean, especially if it is a Hard one..........but that is politics, and as you rightly state a matter of opinion rather than fact. :y :y
It is a game; a serious game involving lives, but a game none the less!
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
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To a "remainer" like me (I know in a 48% minority of the few that actually voted!! ::)) I see the costs of leaving the UK as being far, far greater than any leaving fees. The cost to jobs, the prices we pay for goods, and the cutting off of a plentiful supply of labour for our industries, along with the possible break up of the Union, is going to be horrendous and madness To repeat the words of Robert Wallpole during the South Sea Bubble, " They ring their bells now, soon they will be wringing their hands".
As a proud Tory, I must admit I like the approach being given to Brexit by Tony Blair. He supports correctly the idea we must have another vote on Brexit once all the FACTS of our potential leaving are known by the general public and politicians alike.
To me blindly walking into a potential disaster for Britain because a small majority of the public voted for it before they really knew them without an escape plan is absolute nonsense. ::)
Lizzie politics is not about facts but opinions and in a shifting dynamic system there are a few fixed facts, but many dynamically changing ones, as what might apply this week can be completely different next week due to what Macmillan told us "events dear boy events". For Tony BLiar and CaMoron facts were what their daily sound bite said they were. Tomorrow there will bring new sound bites, based on that days 'facts'.
I look forward to when a remoaners prediction actually comes true as project fear was exactly that. The fact that gravity economic models were used for their predictions was totally debunked in a paper by the professor who invented the gravity economic model explaining why it was totally inappropriate for #Brexit, but they used it because it gave the project fear results which was deemed as politically useful to Remainers. The UK engaging and exporting much more with the rest of the world, by creating bilateral trade agreements and boosting mutual trade may actually be the reverse of your pessimism on the future and a new golden age for the UK in much the same way by leaving the gold standard early in the 1930's we did not have a recession / depression like the US and France. Asia, South America and increasingly Africa are where economic growth is really happening and going to continue to happen in the 21st century as they continue to industrialize and because of their population growth.
The Euro is only a half currency and cannot survive in its present form and politically it cannot be reformed to become a proper currency as that would involve the pooling of all national sovereign debts and the ECB issuing bonds, being the bank of last resort and fiscal transfers from richer to poorer areas within the EU. Any German politician agreeing to this would be committing political suicide so it will never happen. The Euro will soldier on until poorer countries leave, which will be forced by the losers in no growth countries or it collapses. The best exit route would actually be for Germany to leave the Euro. The EU as an appointed dictatorship has no interest in economic growth where social engineering is always centre stage with a considerable environmental and climate change slant. Many of the EU policies are quite ruinous for trade which is why the EU global share of trade is dropping twice as fast as that of the US.
Mr Rods. 'Remoaners' do exist and they are pissed because they didn't get the result they expected. That is democracy. Bad luck.
But most 'remainers' are not like that. We took a different polnt of view, that's all.
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
:y :y
Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million ;) That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified ;)
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
:y :y
Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights ;)
Had we voted narrowly to remain in the EU, there would have been no attempt to appease the millions of leave voters. The whole issue would have been kicked into the long grass...... ::)
As to the House of Lords, I am disgusted that British parliamentarians voted to effectively sell British citizens living in EU countries down the river! >:(
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Hang on a second... Those expats are just that... They have made a conscious decision to live overseas.
If I moved to, say Gran Canaria, to live then I would do so on the not unreasonable expectation of becoming a Spanish citizen, likewise the US, Canada or New Zealand. Holding a British passport, or any other for that matter, is a privilege...
About time people respected that fact.
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One of our best with a global reputation for economic modelling is Prof. Patrick Minford who has been crunching the economic effects of #Brexit.
The gain for the UK is very dependent upon how #Brexit is implemented with the best case by adopting Universal Free Trade with the world of a 4% growth in GDP over and above current growth and an 8% drop in prices even with no trade agreement with the EU so we have to revert to WTO tariffs. I came to the conclusion sometime a go that the only way to actually leave the EU is with a clean (hard) Brexit by leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union.
This is the report by Prof Patrick Minford:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58a0b77fe58c624794f29287/t/58caadac03596e662a460dcb/1489677760066/UK-WTO-Trade-Strategy-Non-Cooperative-Continent-17-02-2017.pdf (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58a0b77fe58c624794f29287/t/58caadac03596e662a460dcb/1489677760066/UK-WTO-Trade-Strategy-Non-Cooperative-Continent-17-02-2017.pdf)
and here is another very good reports by another high profile economist Liam Halligan on the advantages of Clean Brexit:
https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Policy-Exchange-Clean-Brexit-16th-January-2017.pdf (https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Policy-Exchange-Clean-Brexit-16th-January-2017.pdf)
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
:y :y
Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million ;) That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified ;)
This is standard EU practice, historically where referendums are concerned. They strongly discourage them, but if they take place and the electorate have the audacity to give the wrong result, they make them vote again until they get the right result.
Just one more reason why we should get out of this undemocratic, protectionist, soviet style bloc asap.
Several recent polls have said that if the referendum were rerun today the vote to leave would be much higher. Due to the fact that project fear has been shown to be one huge pack of lies.
Hard / soft Brexit is a media soundbite perpetuated by project fear. It should actually be "real Brexit or pretend Brexit".
To remain in the single market, basically means EU membership in all but name.
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Indeed and, as I said above, where in the framework of article 50 is the allowance for such a "once the facts are known" second referendum?
Brussels refuse to negotiate until article 50 is declared, and, once that has been done, our exit within 2 years is irreversible, regardless of what is actually negotiated. I fail to see why this is so difficult to understand.
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
:y :y
Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million ;) That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified ;)
This is standard EU practice, historically where referendums are concerned. They strongly discourage them, but if they take place and the electorate have the audacity to give the wrong result, they make them vote again until they get the right result.
Just one more reason why we should get out of this undemocratic, protectionist, soviet style bloc asap.
Several recent polls have said that if the referendum were rerun today the vote to leave would be much higher. Due to the fact that project fear has been shown to be one huge pack of lies.
Hard / soft Brexit is a media soundbite perpetuated by project fear. It should actually be "real Brexit or pretend Brexit".
To remain in the single market, basically means EU membership in all but name.
I don't agree with Lizzie about a second vote. I presume she means a second referendum Once we have a second vote then why not a third vote.....or a sixth or seventh vote. No, the voting is now done and dusted. Time to move on.
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
:y :y
Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million ;) That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified ;)
This is standard EU practice, historically where referendums are concerned. They strongly discourage them, but if they take place and the electorate have the audacity to give the wrong result, they make them vote again until they get the right result.
Just one more reason why we should get out of this undemocratic, protectionist, soviet style bloc asap.
Several recent polls have said that if the referendum were rerun today the vote to leave would be much higher. Due to the fact that project fear has been shown to be one huge pack of lies.
Hard / soft Brexit is a media soundbite perpetuated by project fear. It should actually be "real Brexit or pretend Brexit".
To remain in the single market, basically means EU membership in all but name.
I don't agree with Lizzie about a second vote. I presume she means a second referendum Once we have a second vote then why not a third vote.....or a sixth or seventh vote. No, the voting is now done and dusted. Time to move on.
.
Couldn't agree more Opti fed up to the teeth with hearing all the nonsense & what ifs no good ruminating over anything. Deep breaths & move on, lifes too short .
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The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in. I'm prepared to be kind and call them patriotic. I understand exactly where they were/are coming from, hospitals, schools, the benefits system are all creaking under the weight of numbers.
But, of course, this isn't going to happen. The only thing we are going to 'reclaim our borders' from is EU bureaucracy.
So...post brexit....I can see remainers being unhappy about the lost links with Europe and the leavers being unhappy because they didn't get what they voted for.
But, of course, and has been said, no one knows for sure.
As an aside: I notice that there is a lot of cheap money knocking about. Almost daily I am receiving letters telling me I can borrow loads of money at a very competitive rate. At the same time, the credit limit on my cards is being raised without me asking. The ads on the telly are incessant. Interest rates are low, but inflation is climbing, exactly the set of circumstances that caused people to overborrow just before the last crisis.
Throw that into the mix and brexit could be a very rough ride.
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The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in. I'm prepared to be kind and call them patriotic. I understand exactly where they were/are coming from, hospitals, schools, the benefits system are all creaking under the weight of numbers.
But, of course, this isn't going to happen. The only thing we are going to 'reclaim our borders' from is EU bureaucracy.
So...post brexit....I can see remainers being unhappy about the lost links with Europe and the leavers being unhappy because they didn't get what they voted for.
But, of course, and has been said, no one knows for sure.
As an aside: I notice that there is a lot of cheap money knocking about. Almost daily I am receiving letters telling me I can borrow loads of money at a very competitive rate. At the same time, the credit limit on my cards is being raised without me asking. The ads on the telly are incessant. Interest rates are low, but inflation is climbing, exactly the set of circumstances that caused people to overborrow just before the last crisis.
Throw that into the mix and brexit could be a very rough ride.
You're quite smart for a scouser. :)
I agree.
2.3%
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I didn't vote to leave thinking the immigrants would be sent home and no more allowed in. I don't know any other leave voters who thought that either.
We will always need a certain, sensible level of immigration, but who is allowed to come should be decided by our elected Govt. in Westminster, according to the needs of our economy, not unelected pen pushers in Brussels.
Anyway, weare leaving and the Tony Blairs, Nick Cleggs, Mandelsons Farrons etc. of this world, and those who think like them, need to accept it and move on, with a positive belief in their own country.
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No, Albs, you didn't vote thinking that, because the economy down there needs immigrants to function. Up north people think different like......... ;D
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No, Albs, you didn't vote thinking that, because the economy down there needs immigrants to function. Up north people think different like......... ;D
Ah, you mean the Commonwealth demographic ;)
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No, Albs, you didn't vote thinking that, because the economy down there needs immigrants to function. Up north people think different like......... ;D
Ah, you mean the Commonwealth demographic ;)
Do I? Ok then. ;D
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I think Lizzie has a point.
We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.
Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.
:y :y
Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million ;) That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified ;)
That just goes to show what a half cocked effort the whole referendum was. Properly run the government should have presented fairly BOTH sides of the coin. That they didn't was a scandal. Perhaps the government should have put the case for leave and the EU the case for remain? Still as others have already said Britain will be just fine after a rocky few years. Rods2 put the scenario for Eurozone very succinctly earlier on.
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I am not sure where this 'immigrants pack up and go home' has come from. I don't know of anyone who voted for that. It seems its the politicians and BBC are the instigators.
I voted leave, because I wanted immigrant numbers lowered, and no political ties with the European dictatorship. I realise we need imported labour, but I also know that the limitations of our infrastructure, just cannot take the pressure of immigrants coming here in their thousands.
Why does nobody talk about the future population increase that will be caused, just by those already here, let alone the thousands coming here every year. >:(
For goodness sake, someone get some balls and start sorting it !!!!!!!!
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I am not sure where this 'immigrants pack up and go home' has come from. I don't know of anyone who voted for that. It seems its the politicians and BBC are the instigators.
I voted leave, because I wanted immigrant numbers lowered, and no political ties with the European dictatorship. I realise we need imported labour, but I also know that the limitations of our infrastructure, just cannot take the pressure of immigrants coming here in their thousands.
Why does nobody talk about the future population increase that will be caused, just by those already here, let alone the thousands coming here every year. >:(
For goodness sake, someone get some balls and start sorting it !!!!!!!!
Oh I say, Tony, you are attractive when you're angry :-*
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our exit within 2 years is irreversible,
Not quite right
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Many people (myself included) believe it wont hurt us badly, quite the opposite in fact. You and many others believe it will hurt us badly.
None of us has a crysral ball, so we shall just have to wait and see.
At least we are about to become a self governing, independent, democratic nation once again. Is there ever a bad time to to revert to that ?
Unfortunately, despite a period of promising growth, our economy had not recovered from the combo of the old eyed Scottish idiot and the global recession.
Europe is our biggest trading partner, and nobody beyond the God Farage sheep genuinely believes we will get free access to that. Which isn't ideal when we're not in a particularly strong financial position.
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The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in.
You mean they won't? Oh hell :(
I was looking forward to us sending most of the country back to Norway (all those Viking raiding parties, coming over here, raping & pillaging), Italy (all the bloody Romans, coming over here, building stuff), Germany (that bloody royal family.. ;D) ;D
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The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in.
You mean they won't? Oh hell :(
I was looking forward to us sending most of the country back to Norway (all those Viking raiding parties, coming over here, raping & pillaging), Italy (all the bloody Romans, coming over here, building stuff), Germany (that bloody royal family.. ;D) ;D
Madeline Smith 1975. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* The shampoo advert which had a strong effect on me as a 15 year old boy.
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The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in.
You mean they won't? Oh hell :(
I was looking forward to us sending most of the country back to Norway (all those Viking raiding parties, coming over here, raping & pillaging), Italy (all the bloody Romans, coming over here, building stuff), Germany (that bloody royal family.. ;D) ;D
[/highlight]
Nice German girl meets and falls in love with a nice Greek boy. What could be more English. :)
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Many people (myself included) believe it wont hurt us badly, quite the opposite in fact. You and many others believe it will hurt us badly.
None of us has a crysral ball, so we shall just have to wait and see.
At least we are about to become a self governing, independent, democratic nation once again. Is there ever a bad time to to revert to that ?
Unfortunately, despite a period of promising growth, our economy had not recovered from the combo of the old eyed Scottish idiot and the global recession.
Europe is our biggest trading partner, and nobody beyond the God Farage sheep genuinely believes we will get free access to that. Which isn't ideal when we're not in a particularly strong financial position.
Maybe not, but we are in a much stronger financial position than every other EU country except Germany, and once the Euro currency collapses, Germany is up shit creek without a paddle.
We are though, in a very strong negotiating position with the EU, providing they don't send a team of faceless, chinless, spineless civil servants to do the negotiating.
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It's alright, Nige is currently a guest of Homeland Security following his Solicitation charges...
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Joking aside, anyone who voted to remain shouldn't be allowed to represent us in the negotiations ;)