Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Gaffers on 05 January 2012, 16:59:48
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Not having done this earlier :-[ I need to get it done now as the back is sagging a little with the lpg tank in the boot. I dont want to upset the back as much as possible nor mess about with removing plates and dropping the diff etc.
I have some spring compressors and was wondering if anyone had managed to change the springs using these and not disturbing the big nasty stuff?
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Not really enough room for compressors. If you don`t want to drop the diff you can always use a trolley jack and the car jack
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z257/belisensis/JACKINGFORREARSPRINGREMOVAL.jpg)
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I've replaced my rear springs on the 2.2 with LPG fitted, no issues...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/Springs/SAM_1526.JPG)
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Not really enough room for compressors.
Looks like plenty of room in there tbh :-\
How easy were they to remove/replace with the car jack option? I guess I could do one side at a time with that technique?
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Honestly, dropping diff is the easiest way. No chance of compressors working, and suspension lacks the travel to move far enough for jack trick without overstressing some bushes somewhere.
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No need to touch bush plates. As the guide, it is easy, and safest for you and the car.
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Changed rear springs on saloon without dropping diff - used spring compressors - no issues, a bit awkward but went in ok. HTH :y
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I tried the jack method and found it near on impossible to stop the bottom plate of the jack slipping off the curved surface.It also tends to distort the double walled metal part of the wheel arch. IMHO this method is not practical,although I am sure others would dissagree.
Very little room to get spring compressors in and be able to wind bolt to squash them down,so my money is on the dropping the diff as takes very little time and you can remove /replace the springs with total safety.
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Its a sub one hour job by dropping the diff to do both sides so dead easy.
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Its a sub one hour job by dropping the diff to do both sides so dead easy.
Yes, I would agree with that although I took slightly longer due to external factors - tea, phone calls and so on.
The guide provides all the information necessary to carry out a straightforward and uncomplicated change.
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Also helps if you soak shock bolts, diff bolts & the brake line pins in WD or PlusGas few days before. :y
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No need to soak them Tunnie, I'm not a useless student/lanky streak of piss ::) ;D
But, what a pig of a job! Ok the lack of daylight didn't help but WFT! Finally dropped the diff expecting it to go all the way down to the exhaust...but no! It decided to stay just short of making it easy to pop the spring out >:(
One head/towbar exchange, a gouge in the right wrist and battered hands later I get the diff dropped enough to manhandle the springs out. They certainly did not just slip out as was implied in the guide ::)
Was defo not catching on anything, a little pursuasion from the sissor jack eventually got me out of the poo :y
Then again, I was probably just being a shit mechanic ;D
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Did you remember to take the handbrake off ::)
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Did you remember to take the handbrake off ::)
Yes fatty, and in neutral on the autobox too. So ner :P
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Did you remember to take the handbrake off ::)
Yes fatty, and in neutral on the autobox too. So ner :P
I didn't. Twice :-[
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Spings are easy but dropping diff yourself, thats mad!!! ???
But well done Matt!!!
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Spings are easy but dropping diff yourself, thats mad!!! ???
But well done Matt!!!
Why :-\
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Did you remember to take the handbrake off ::)
Yes fatty, and in neutral on the autobox too. So ner :P
I didn't. Twice :-[
Considering how much of a pig of a job it is, I can feel your pain on that one :(
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Spings are easy but dropping diff yourself, thats mad!!! ???
But well done Matt!!!
Why :-\
For the easy way to drop diff, have to remove tail pipe so that means mid boxes, bolts normally snap from cats, unless you have a jack to lower down diff on its a belly job, undo prop etc etc, are spring claps £££ ???
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Spings are easy but dropping diff yourself, thats mad!!! ???
But well done Matt!!!
Why :-\
For the easy way to drop diff, have to remove tail pipe so that means mid boxes, bolts normally snap from cats, unless you have a jack to lower down diff on its a belly job, undo prop etc etc, are spring claps £££ ???
With the handbrake off ::), They is more than enough give in the exhaust, at worse, have to remove the backbox rubbers. In my experience anyway...
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It depends on the length of spring. Lowered or sports springs fall out. LA springs need extra leverage and the exhaust unhooked to prize them out with a bar. Unhooking exhaust can be dodgy if its well rusty admitadly, because the pas side drive shaft fouls and stops subframe dropping.
Slightly pedantic but its the whole subframe that drops, hinged by the rear donut bushes. Jack placed under the diff to support the subframe should allow the carefull and contrlolled dropping of the subframe until the drive shaft touches exhaust. :-\
Shouldnt it TB ;)
Have to say i've never had an issue bar unhooking the exhaust and LA springs being way too long. They add 1.5inches to the ride hight to the car when fitted. Poxy things.
I dont see the wheel rotation issues like auto box in neutral and handbrake off being relevant as they lock in relation to the rear subframe, which is dropping with the wheels and everything else.
The dif drop method, although inacurately described is very simple(honest). Subrame is ONLY atrached by the two diff blocks as the guide and the donut bushes! thats it! I guess any issues with clearance for the springs are related to removing the "ancilliarys" that allow the subframe and trailling arms to drop fully. The shocks have to be undone no matter what to allow the the springs to extend, as do anti roll bar drop links because the roll bar goes over the dif which is in the roll bars way.
Might do a video next time. :-\ if it helps.
Thing is, the subframe drops a fair way. So if not dropping the dif/subframe, that extra space has to be found somewhere if using a jack as pictured. This means over stressed bushes in the traing arm pivots. Shocks and roll bars still need to be undone, wheels still have to come off to clear the floor not just for access obviously. From that point its four more bolts to undo to drop the subframe with jack under dif. to control it.
Not a job i'd want to do in failing light though. Fair play Guffer.
Maybe its the description that trips us up? "Dropping the dif" doesnt imply the subframe is going to move, so might lead to stands being placed under the subframe itself. Its going nowhere then.
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I made sure the stands weren't going to interfere with Tue subframe. The bushes are relatively new, maybe that made it more difficult?
It's very busy at work right now for obvious reasons plus I have Jenny to work on at weekends. So I had little choice. Now just to sort out this HID issue and back in for a retest.
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Yeah sorry i meant generally, it has happened in the past.
Still, all done now. :)
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:y
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I dont see the wheel rotation issues like auto box in neutral and handbrake off being relevant as they lock in relation to the rear subframe, which is dropping with the wheels and everything else.
I reckon the handbrake cable tightens as the subframe dropping, to the point that its the handbrake cable holds the subframe up slightly.
Can't think what else it could have been - I tried twice, yet when we did it together in Reading, they both just fell out.
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I have often seen post titles, rear springs /spring change etc etc but never read them,
i just did as im bored, :o
AND, Im confused here, been playing with big vxhalls for years, and ive never dropped the diff to do a simple spring change? undo bottom shock mount after undoing 13mm nut and bolt on arb, and the springs come out and go back in with spring compressors no problem at all,
must have changed at least 15 pairs this way, takes around 15 mins per side, ok i admit i have loads of experience, but i do not understand dropping the diff, seems a lot of work for simple spring change
JM2PW
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Four bolts v spring compressors ... :-\
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I dont see the wheel rotation issues like auto box in neutral and handbrake off being relevant as they lock in relation to the rear subframe, which is dropping with the wheels and everything else.
I reckon the handbrake cable tightens as the subframe dropping, to the point that its the handbrake cable holds the subframe up slightly.
Can't think what else it could have been - I tried twice, yet when we did it together in Reading, they both just fell out.
Mmmnot so sure... The entire weight of the rear of the car to compress those springs, which are pushing the subframe down v a hand brake cable? That wouldn't stop it dropping, which was your problem as it wouldn't even budge as I recall...?
if the subframe became further away by dropping it at the rear, the prop shaft would have to be longer as well? By dropping the dif the wheel base becomes shorter not longer. ???
I guess Lazytinker will be next up for springs, might play about then To prove the point see of it makes any odds. ;D ;)
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I wonder if the position/angle of the driveshaft relative to floorpan makes any difference. ie most of the time no problem but at certain angles it makes it more difficult to drop?
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I have often seen post titles, rear springs /spring change etc etc but never read them,
i just did as im bored, :o
AND, Im confused here, been playing with big vxhalls for years, and ive never dropped the diff to do a simple spring change? undo bottom shock mount after undoing 13mm nut and bolt on arb, and the springs come out and go back in with spring compressors no problem at all,
must have changed at least 15 pairs this way, takes around 15 mins per side, ok i admit i have loads of experience, but i do not understand dropping the diff, seems a lot of work for simple spring change
JM2PW
sadly it dont work everytime (very few on the mig) and the guide has to cover all applications. :y
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Four bolts v spring compressors ... :-\
Its a bit more than that realy though.
First off you need spring compressors (not everybody has them).
For both methods you have to jack the car up.
One requires a few more bolts removing, they other is a bit fiddly with spring compressors.
The guide covers a job by taking an approach which requires minimal specialist tools and is simple so means more members can do it. :y
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Four bolts v spring compressors ... :-\
Its a bit more than that realy though.
First off you need spring compressors (not everybody has them).
For both methods you have to jack the car up.
One requires a few more bolts removing, they other is a bit fiddly with spring compressors.
The guide covers a job by taking an approach which requires minimal specialist tools and is simple so means more members can do it. :y
by that I mean....
Once wheels are off, shocks are undone, drop links undone, your ready for spring compressors ?
At that point what else is there to do if dropping subframe? Un hook brake lines, and make sure abs sensor plugs are out the way. Then it's 4 bolts to undo although depending on spring length they may need levering out, versus winding spring compressors in with possibly limited access depending on which design sc's used... As you say.
Given the choice I'll take the four bolts etc, as your guide. I have sc's in the tool box and their a pita IMO.
But what ever works for the individual obviously. Your guide seems so simple and less fiddely IMO... :y
???
Anyway, interesting discussion none the less. :)
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Indeed, but why remove the wheels :y
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I have done both ways, on my original 2.0 Mig I used compressors, only problem was undoing the shocker bolt, I seem to remember the socket getting jammed in. I then did the drop the Diff method on my 2.2 and it worked very easily.
Ken
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Indeed, but why remove the wheels :y
To get the spring compressors on. ;D ;)
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....although to answer seriously, I have found the ground to be in the way of the wheels dropping fully if, the jack or stands are not man enough to lift the car high enough, or the drive is not flat.
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Indeed, but why remove the wheels :y
I removed them for better access to the brake lines, guess its easier now as the locking pin things are free. But when they are caked in 3 years of road crap, I find its much easier to pop wheel off, fat screw driver on the lip of the clip big hammer and done.
Also with wheels off lets the diff lower more, but I guess thats because I don't get the car high enough :-\