Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Nickbat on 02 February 2012, 19:59:37
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Coming back from taking the kids swimming and the auto box goes into limp mode. Need the car to take my daughter to a special party in Milton Keynes this Saturday. Looks like I'm stuffed. Can't get under the car. Too many vehicles driving past, not near my house now as parking spaces all gone, too cold and too old. Being a pessimist, I think the box has had it. Could this mean the end of my Omega ownership. Thoroughly P**ed off. >:( >:( :'( :'(
Worth calling out the AA?
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Doubt the AA would be much help tbh. First port of call is usually to check the fluid level. Second - selector switch on the n/s of the box.It gets dirt/grim/water inside and causes problems.Iirc this is often indicated by the lights on the gear selector panel,beside the gear stick flashing on/off rather than indicating gear position.
Might be a job for a local mechanic / garage,but if going that route,I would print off the relevant guides from OOF and present them to whoever is doing the job and instruct them to follow the guides to the letter.
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Doubt the AA would be much help tbh. First port of call is usually to check the fluid level. Second - selector switch on the n/s of the box.It gets dirt/grim/water inside and causes problems.Iirc this is often indicated by the lights on the gear selector panel,beside the gear stick flashing on/off rather than indicating gear position.
Might be a job for a local mechanic / garage,but if going that route,I would print off the relevant guides from OOF and present them to whoever is doing the job and instruct them to follow the guides to the letter.
Is it Dexron 1 or 2 that is used in the box, Albs?
How easy is it to check the level myself? I've never done it before (car's only done 40K miles).
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Dex 3.
As the guide ::)
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Dex 3.
Thanks, Chris.
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Doubt the AA would be much help tbh. First port of call is usually to check the fluid level. Second - selector switch on the n/s of the box.It gets dirt/grim/water inside and causes problems.Iirc this is often indicated by the lights on the gear selector panel,beside the gear stick flashing on/off rather than indicating gear position.
Might be a job for a local mechanic / garage,but if going that route,I would print off the relevant guides from OOF and present them to whoever is doing the job and instruct them to follow the guides to the letter.
Is it Dexron 1 or 2 that is used in the box, Albs?
How easy is it to check the level myself? I've never done it before (car's only done 40K miles).
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90508.0
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Doubt the AA would be much help tbh. First port of call is usually to check the fluid level. Second - selector switch on the n/s of the box.It gets dirt/grim/water inside and causes problems.Iirc this is often indicated by the lights on the gear selector panel,beside the gear stick flashing on/off rather than indicating gear position.
Might be a job for a local mechanic / garage,but if going that route,I would print off the relevant guides from OOF and present them to whoever is doing the job and instruct them to follow the guides to the letter.
Is it Dexron 1 or 2 that is used in the box, Albs?
How easy is it to check the level myself? I've never done it before (car's only done 40K miles).
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90508.0
Thanks, just read it. Wish I had a drive (and a few hours and a bucket load of Dexron 3!).
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Worth a little search it's a well covered subject.
For instance dealers will tell you dex 3 is no longer available (if they happen not to have dex 3 in stock) and that dex 4 and above are back compatible.
This MAY be correct, but also consider that vx upgraded the pas fluid from Dex2 to 3. Then smartly changed it back to Dex 2 again as the pas pipes leaked.
As I understand general forum thinking, the story is to stick firmly to Dex3 for auto box fluid as it is a known to work product. Silkolenes titan 4000 dex3 is fine but may take some searching to source. Opie oils are not the cheapest, despite what they would have us believe IME.
To go further and service the fluid, you'll need the two sump gaskets as well, see jpat in parts stickys.
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Worth a little search it's a well covered subject.
For instance dealers will tell you dex 3 is no longer available (if they happen not to have dex 3 in stock) and that dex 4 and above are back compatible.
This MAY be correct, but also consider that vx upgraded the pas fluid from Dex2 to 3. Then smartly changed it back to Dex 2 again as the pas pipes leaked.
As I understand general forum thinking, the story is to stick firmly to Dex3 for auto box fluid as it is a known to work product. Silkolenes titan 4000 dex3 is fine but may take some searching to source. Opie oils are not the cheapest, despite what they would have us believe IME.
To go further and service the fluid, you'll need the two sump gaskets as well, see jpat in parts stickys.
Thanks, again, Chris.
I think I'll try and get in touch with the mechanic that recently worked on SWMBO's car and get him to check out the fluid level on his ramps. If necessary, I'll get him to put some Dex 3 in to get me by (if that is the problem). With the bad weather and my workload right now, I could do without having the hassle of going for a full service - I'd rather leave that until the Spring. ;) :y
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If he has a code reader it might be worth checking the engine and gear box ecu's as well.
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If he has a code reader it might be worth checking the engine and gear box ecu's as well.
I just went out to the car for something and thought I'd just start her up again. The light was on when I turned the ignition but it went through its sequence and the transmission light then went out and it didn't come on again, even when I move the selector through the range (though I didn't drive the car - as I'd lose my space! ;)). Does this shed any light on the problem? ???
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What engine Nick?
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2.6 V6 Rob. :y
Nick. A quick check of luid level can be made after driving a few miles to warm up the box. Simply slide yourself under the drivers side and undo and remove the filler plug (cant remember the spanner size of the top of my head).Fluid should weep out as soon as the plug is removed.If it doesnt,it needs topping up.I have done it in the past without ramps or stands etc. Its a bit awkward,but by no means impossible,unless your quite portly.
The level plug is roughly level with the centre of the drivers door iirc.
Wear gloves etc. as the fluid may be a bit on the warm side. ;)
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13mm socket and a curb and block (although not ideal on several counts)
edit , if it dont pour out you can judge the level with a bent cable tie.
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2.6 V6 Rob. :y
Nick. A quick check of luid level can be made after driving a few miles to warm up the box. Simply slide yourself under the drivers side and undo and remove the filler plug (cant remember the spanner size of the top of my head).Fluid should weep out as soon as the plug is removed.If it doesnt,it needs topping up.I have done it in the past without ramps or stands etc. Its a bit awkward,but by no means impossible,unless your quite portly.
The level plug is roughly level with the centre of the drivers door iirc.
Wear gloves etc. as the fluid may be a bit on the warm side. ;)
Actually, I am relatively slim (30-inch waist in jeans!). The problem I have is that I live next to school, so parking during school term can be difficult and I don't have any Dex 3 in stock. I am short of time as I need the car desperately for Saturday AM to take Miss Nickbat and her schoolmates off to her skydiving party at MK. It's a long-awaited event and as she missed out on her birthday celebrations at school yesterday due to a migraine (her first at age 11 :(), I am very keen not to disappoint her.
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Should be able to get some Dex 3 at Halfrauds. ;)
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Should be able to get some Dex 3 at Halfrauds. ;)
OK, Albs, thanks. :y
BTW, do you think that the fact that the light is now out points to a low fluid level?
Also, I just found an unopened can of STP auto-box stop leak in the shed. Could it be worth adding if I have lost fluid - just until I get it properly serviced? ???
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I presume the code stored doesn`t aid diagnosis??
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Dont know the signifacance of the light going out tbh Nick. Additives to autoboxes arent generally recommended by those who know about these things afaik.
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Dont know the signifacance of the light going out tbh Nick. Additives to autoboxes arent generally recommended by those who know about these things afaik.
Me neither. The other thought that came into my mind was a piece of road grit (they've been gritting like there's no tomorrow round here) getting into the selector mechanism. Bit of a long shot, mind. ;)
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Doubtful imo.Its just a rod connected to a switch.The switch is sealed,although over time, moisture and small pieces of dirt find their way in and cause problems.
No knowledgeable forum members in your locality Nick ? Im a bit fa away and working nights at the moment anyway. :-\
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Doubtful imo.Its just a rod connected to a switch.The switch is sealed,although over time, moisture and small pieces of dirt find their way in and cause problems.
No knowledgeable forum members in your locality Nick ? Im a bit fa away and working nights at the moment anyway. :-\
'fraid not, Albs. I'm just putting all my hope on low fluid. I may add the STP if it is. Remember, the dodgy oil stem seals as well? My car looks great, goes well, but is frankly becoming a bit of a shed (albeit a nice one) and only worth two bob and a bag of marbles... ;)
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Should be able to get some Dex 3 at Halfrauds. ;)
A proper motor factor would be a better bet; I just bought 5 litres of D3 for £22 off the shelf. It's hardly exotic stuff.
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This happened to miggy at about 75,000mls
had a slight stall when moveing away from traffic lights
I read the stored code and now can't recall what it was
Anyhow under advice from TB :y
I changed the ATF and filter etc a few weeks later
Still used miggy for a hundred or so mls
My impression since is it was the autobox asking for a service
30,000mls later (many of those mls tugging a caravan) miggy has a box smooth as silk with no problems
As Albs advises I most certainly would NOT use that additive as you will contaminate the total fluid content of box and fluid flywheel
And I don't think it's possible ever to drain out all the fluid only about 50%
There are lots of guy's more qualified than I on here (with better memories)
I just felt I needed to add my thought's and a cautionary note with regard to the additve
Best of luck Nick,hope you get it sorted OK :y
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just read your comment about lot's of gritting
My thoughts are could it be the corrosve salt water content thats got in to the electronics of the selector switch contacts??
Just my thoughts
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Thats possible Cliff. :y
If the fluid level is ok Switch is the next likely culprit. Maybe not DIY for Nick in his circumstances though.Shouldnt take a mechanic any longer than an hour to take it off clean it and reinstall it as per the guide.
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Thanks for all your help guys.
This morning I phoned a mechanic who had been recommended to me (and had done work on SWMBO's car last year).
The conversation went like this:
ME: Could you check the auto box oil my Omega, I think it may be low.
HIM: What makes you think that? You checked the dipstick?
ME: No, it doesn't have a dipstick, but the warning light came on last night for a short while when the car was on an incline.
HIM: That means there's a fault with the box. Nothing to do with fluid levels.
ME: Well can you check it for me?
HIM: Nah, I've got a Porsche on the ramps, a Smart Car with a blown turbo...
ME: (Thinking am I interested in what cars you have there?) OK, forget it.
Took it into the Vx dealers. Will let you know the score later on. Incidentally, it drove fine all the way to the dealership with no warning lights ::) ::)
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It would be good to get the codes from the gearbox ECU. Hopefully the stealer can do that (get them to tell you the codes, not their interpretation thereof!).
If it just slipped into limp-home without any other symptoms and now drives fine I doubt it is fluid level, TBH, and I very much doubt it's a mechanical failure given the mileage. Always good to check the fluid level, though.
Getting the gearbox codes read would shed some light on it.
Try moving the selector over the whole range of positions and check the LEDs follow the lever position accurately without any flickering. If the switch had a momentary issue it would have dropped into limp-home for the rest of the journey.
Ditto for a loose electrical connection between gearbox and ECU.
Mine has done it once on ice, by the way. Think the TC got upset trying to calibrate the wheel sensors after pulling away on ice and it put the gearbox into limp-home. Just a thought given the current temperature....
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It would be good to get the codes from the gearbox ECU. Hopefully the stealer can do that (get them to tell you the codes, not their interpretation thereof!).
If it just slipped into limp-home without any other symptoms and now drives fine I doubt it is fluid level, TBH, and I very much doubt it's a mechanical failure given the mileage. Always good to check the fluid level, though.
Getting the gearbox codes read would shed some light on it.
Try moving the selector over the whole range of positions and check the LEDs follow the lever position accurately without any flickering. If the switch had a momentary issue it would have dropped into limp-home for the rest of the journey.
Ditto for a loose electrical connection between gearbox and ECU.
Mine has done it once on ice, by the way. Think the TC got upset trying to calibrate the wheel sensors after pulling away on ice and it put the gearbox into limp-home. Just a thought given the current temperature....
Aha!
Thanks, Kevin. That has cheered me up a bit. Could have just been a momentary glitch. Glad it's in the stealers, even though it will cost. They should get to the bottom of it with a Tech2.
Nick :y
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It would be good to get the codes from the gearbox ECU. Hopefully the stealer can do that (get them to tell you the codes, not their interpretation thereof!).
If it just slipped into limp-home without any other symptoms and now drives fine I doubt it is fluid level, TBH, and I very much doubt it's a mechanical failure given the mileage. Always good to check the fluid level, though.
Getting the gearbox codes read would shed some light on it.
Try moving the selector over the whole range of positions and check the LEDs follow the lever position accurately without any flickering. If the switch had a momentary issue it would have dropped into limp-home for the rest of the journey.
Ditto for a loose electrical connection between gearbox and ECU.
Mine has done it once on ice, by the way. Think the TC got upset trying to calibrate the wheel sensors after pulling away on ice and it put the gearbox into limp-home. Just a thought given the current temperature....
Also had a similar glitch .... but not on ice .. on a wet and muddy field pulling someone out ... lots of wheel spin/traction control lights going mental, slipping from drive to reverse and back to get traction .. pulled it out eventually ... once on the road it went into limp mode at 20mph... stayed there until switched off and back on. I put it down to the gearbox "thinking" there was a problem as wheel speeds/engine speed/gearbox selections had been all over the place.
So if you had a bit of TC action it might just be the reason .......
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Also had a similar glitch .... but not on ice .. on a wet and muddy field pulling someone out ... lots of wheel spin/traction control lights going mental, slipping from drive to reverse and back to get traction .. pulled it out eventually ... once on the road it went into limp mode at 20mph... stayed there until switched off and back on. I put it down to the gearbox "thinking" there was a problem as wheel speeds/engine speed/gearbox selections had been all over the place.
So if you had a bit of TC action it might just be the reason .......
Mine lit the ABS and TC lights but didn't store a fault in the gearbox, but it was certainly only giving me 3rd gear.
I think the ABS/TC likes to see all 4 wheels doing a similar speed after pulling away for the first time. If this doesn't happen within a certain timeout it appears to decide the system is fubar and goes into some sort of nannying mode.
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My 3.2 V6 had a spate of doing this about 2 years ago but light alwayswent out on restart and limp mode retuned to normal mode. Changed ATF and filter and crank sensor and no problems since - I do get the occasional (once every 6 months) freewheel effect where it has difficulty selecting right gear for a couple of seconds but can live with that. Not sure if I would trust it on long journeys but thinking of testing it soon on a 400 miler.
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Well, here is an account of my experience with the Vx Dealers today..
Phoned them up this morning and asked if they could check my ATF levels as I'd had a fault light showing on the dash, though it had since gone out. No problem, they said. Bring it in and we'll take a look. Dropped the car off at 9.45am. Not a peep. Tried phoning at 4.00 only to find out that they couldn't put my call through and that they would call me back. They did, at 4.30.
"We've had a look at the car and checked the levels. No leaks and all's well. Yay, I thought! :y :y
"...But we didn't check the transmission fluid as there's no dipstick and to check the oil involves a lot of work like draining the box". Noooooo!! :o :( >:(
"We tried to check the fault with Tech 2 but the gearbox wouldn't communicate with it. We tried again, but no luck. If this keeps happening, you'll need a new gearbox control unit."
"But, our mechanic has road tested and all seems fine - but your steering wheel does vibrate a bit and we've given your tyres an amber warning for tread depth "
"That'll be £57 for the 0.5 hours of a technician please. Just pop your card in there....."
Hell's teeth!
Drove home, feeling sheepish and poor. Box working fine. Steering wheel smooth as a mill pond.
Went to collect my daughter from ballet. Drove down a hill and the box did not seem to want to shift into 3rd (I was not accelerating). As I got to the bottom of the hill, it did change up as if a mule had hit me in the back and on comes the light again. Park up, collect Miss Nickbat and the light goes out on start up.
I have to go to Milton Keynes tomorrow...I just hope I don't encounter any hills.
I'm off to have a good sob in the corner... :'( :'( :'(
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this is'nt the old 2-3 solenoid scenario again is it?
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I wouldnt have paid them a penny.Just threatened them with trading standards. You should fire off a letter of complaint to VX customer services. >:(
Im no expert by any means,but the solenoid theory sounds feasible. Beena few of them reported over the years,including my current car before I owned it.
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I wouldnt have paid them a penny.Just threatened them with trading standards. You should fire off a letter of complaint to VX customer services. >:(
Im no expert by any means,but the solenoid theory sounds feasible. Beena few of them reported over the years,including my current car before I owned it.
What's the solenoid theory? ??? ??? ??? ???
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As in sassanachs post. 2-3 gear solenoid on the way out. Im guessing that it would need a good code reader to read the transmission ecu to give clues. VX had the best reader available but unfortunately only seem to employ remedials who have no clue how to operate it.
Just had the thought - your going to milton keynes tomorrow. Not too far from TB.May be worth PMing him and asking if hes available. ;)
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As in sassanachs post. 2-3 gear solenoid on the way out. Im guessing that it would need a good code reader to read the transmission ecu to give clues. VX had the best reader available but unfortunately only seem to employ remedials who have no clue how to operate it.
Just had the thought - your going to milton keynes tomorrow. Not too far from TB.May be worth PMing him and asking if hes available. ;)
I will have Miss Nickbat's school friends with me, so that idea is a non-starter I'm afraid, Albs. We're off to do some indoor sky-diving as Miss Nickbat's birthday bash. Unfortunately, I have been roped in to "having a go" myself.
But, back to the solenoid, I presume it's a major issue to fix? ???
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Never done it myself,but I believe its at least one of the sumps off,then just remove it (a few bolts ?) and bolt the new one on.Then replace sump(s) and fill with ATF.Garage wil probably charge silly money to do the job tbh.
Sassanach would be the man to ask for more detailed info I would think, as I have the impression he is the resident expert in these matters. :y
James V6 may also be worth a try as I vaguely remember him posting about doing this job,not that long ago. :-\
Doubt it would be cost effective for Daz to come down and do it as a one off job. :-\
Having said all that,no point in proceeding without diagnosis,and the only people I would trust to do that would be an OOFer with Tech 2. VX dealer have already proved themselves incapable of using it. ;)
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Never done it myself,but I believe its at least one of the sumps off,then just remove it (a few bolts ?) and bolt the new one on.Then replace sump(s) and fill with ATF.Garage wil probably charge silly money to do the job tbh.
Sassanach would be the man to ask for more detailed info I would think, as I have the impression he is the resident expert in these matters. :y
James V6 may also be worth a try as I vaguely remember him posting about doing this job,not that long ago. :-\
Doubt it would be cost effective for Daz to come down and do it as a one off job. :-\
Thanks, Albs. What a PITA! ;)
With that and the dodgy valve stem seals, I'm a bit fed up with the car. BUT, with just 40k on the clock, she is a beaut and goes like stink! ;)
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Never done it myself,but I believe its at least one of the sumps off,then just remove it (a few bolts ?) and bolt the new one on.Then replace sump(s) and fill with ATF.Garage wil probably charge silly money to do the job tbh.
Sassanach would be the man to ask for more detailed info I would think, as I have the impression he is the resident expert in these matters. :y
James V6 may also be worth a try as I vaguely remember him posting about doing this job,not that long ago. :-\
Doubt it would be cost effective for Daz to come down and do it as a one off job. :-\
Having said all that,no point in proceeding without diagnosis,and the only people I would trust to do that would be an OOFer with Tech 2. VX dealer have already proved themselves incapable of using it. ;)
Vx were adamant that they couldn't get the Tech 2 to talk to the gearbox control unit. :(
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I know next to nothing about these things,but Im sure Ive seen TB have a bit of trouble getting tech 2 to communicate with ECU,s on cars,but after a bit of head scratching and twiddling of dials etc. managed to sort it out in the end.
VX are well known for being useless at using their own technology. ::)
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Sorry state of affairs.
I Would do the run to MK....if you get limp, just restart the car....or drive it as a manual.
I had to do this a lot with my old blue one.
I suspect you will be out of luck getting TB to look at it today im afraid.
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Sorry state of affairs.
I Would do the run to MK....if you get limp, just restart the car....or drive it as a manual.
I had to do this a lot with my old blue one.
I suspect you will be out of luck getting TB to look at it today im afraid.
As Jimbob says just restart the car - would just get the ATF and filter changed at this stage and see how you go. It must be 5/6 years now since I had exactly same problem of limp mode - and it just went away. Not sure if you need to clear error codes though. TB did a gearbox software upgrade later on in 2007 which may had had an impact.
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oh and I didn't change ATF until 2008 from car being new
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Vauxhall dealers as ever proving useless, scary how shite they are! :o
Really do need to get those codes read, can't say I've done a gearbox solenoid before, done ATF changes by dropping the sump, don't recall it being very difficult to access/replace the solenoid.
Trouble is I have no tools or facilities here in W3 to do any work :(
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Nick,
Quick Google found this place:
http://www.pitstartgarage.com/self_service.html (http://www.pitstartgarage.com/self_service.html)
Its just up the road from me, not too far from you either? Think I remember seeing them advertised on TV once. Rent garage space, with lift & tools.
Lift will make it sooooo much easier to drop that gearbox sump.
If anyone can give me some details on what exactly to do with the solenoid, I'd be happy to do the work for you :y
Dropping the sump itself is a doddle, as is re-filling it. Just not sure exactly what needs to be done with the solenoid :-\
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I'd be happy to take a look with the Tech 2 if you can get it to me (or to Fleet, where I work, on a weekday, if it's easier?).
Could pop it in the garage and check the atf as well, if you like?
There is something odd about the gearbox diag. line. IIRC, it's shared with the radio, which comes into life when you start testing. If you turn the radio off, it fails to communicate with the gearbox. Not exactly rocket science to figure that out, though. >:(
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Some splendid offers there - well done. :-* 8) :y
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Yep - OOF spirit at its best yet again. :y
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Thanks everyone! :y :y :y :y
Took the the car to Milton Keynes and back today and absolutely no problem!
It is a weird fault and one I need to keep a check on. Thanks for the links and offer of help, Tunnie and Kevin! :y :y
I have a really busy week this week. I'll post here if I have any more incidents in the next few days, though. Funny how it (so far) only occurs on steep inclines. Hopefully, the car will remain driveable until the weather clears up and we have less cold conditions. Good chance I'll take up a few of these offers!
Thanks again! :y
Nick
BTW, the indoor skydiving was great! ;) ;D
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When I had this problem of my gearbox going into limp mode and at other times displaying gearbox problem on the Mid display on start up it was caused by a failing crank shaft sensor, which finally let me down, by the engine cutting out, fortunately just after the brow of a hill, so I was able to coast down and turn off a very busy A road. When I got my friend to recover the vehicle it had started ok! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Once I replaced the crank sensor about £54 on a trade card all my gearbox problems disappeared!!! :y :y :y
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When I had this problem of my gearbox going into limp mode and at other times displaying gearbox problem on the Mid display on start up it was caused by a failing crank shaft sensor, which finally let me down, by the engine cutting out, fortunately just after the brow of a hill, so I was able to coast down and turn off a very busy A road. When I got my friend to recover the vehicle it had started ok! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Once I replaced the crank sensor about £54 on a trade card all my gearbox problems disappeared!!! :y :y :y
Agreed - same situation with me - but changed ATF and filter around same time as crank sensor.