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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Del Boy on 17 February 2012, 21:50:14

Title: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Del Boy on 17 February 2012, 21:50:14
Please don't buy cheap tyres. Very close to stuffing a 350z tonight because of cheap tyres, little bit of throttle and the arse end starts sliding out, caught it just in time. Shit stuff though and a proper brown trouser moment, they're not worth it!
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: albitz on 17 February 2012, 22:06:35
My tyres werent cheap.They were free. :P ;D ;D
I cant even remember what brand they are - Jimny,Jimnu....breaks knows,something beginning with J anyway. :D ;D
Wheres the fun in having a car with loads of grip anyway ? ;D
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: sticka_v8_init on 17 February 2012, 22:10:11
Just out of curiosity, what tyres were fitted to the 350?
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: omega3000 on 17 February 2012, 22:10:57
Please don't buy cheap tyres. Very close to stuffing a 350z tonight because of cheap tyres, little bit of throttle and the arse end starts sliding out, caught it just in time. Shit stuff though and a proper brown trouser moment, they're not worth it!

Glad your ok , had a few moments on shinwongt tyres on my old astra ...slightest bit of damp on the roads made the car feeling like it was floating in the corners  ::) mind it was the astra  :-X
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Olympia5776 on 17 February 2012, 22:20:42
Just out of curiosity, what tyres were fitted to the 350?

Whatever brand they are if you are able to buy top brand tyres for these ,
Drives , 2011 '60' BMW 520d SE Auto, 2007 '57' BMW 730Ld SE - Black Leather, 2007 '57' BMW 730Ld SE - Cream Leather, 2008 '08' Mercedes E280 CDi, 2006 '06' Nissan 350z, 1995 'N' Aston Martin DB7.
you're a very fortunate man........ :)
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: the alarming man on 17 February 2012, 22:34:47
Just out of curiosity, what tyres were fitted to the 350?

Whatever brand they are if you are able to buy top brand tyres for these ,
Drives , 2011 '60' BMW 520d SE Auto, 2007 '57' BMW 730Ld SE - Black Leather, 2007 '57' BMW 730Ld SE - Cream Leather, 2008 '08' Mercedes E280 CDi, 2006 '06' Nissan 350z, 1995 'N' Aston Martin DB7.
you're a very fortunate man........ :)



or may be not.......??????... :y
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Del Boy on 17 February 2012, 23:57:47
Just out of curiosity, what tyres were fitted to the 350?

Whatever brand they are if you are able to buy top brand tyres for these ,
Drives , 2011 '60' BMW 520d SE Auto, 2007 '57' BMW 730Ld SE - Black Leather, 2007 '57' BMW 730Ld SE - Cream Leather, 2008 '08' Mercedes E280 CDi, 2006 '06' Nissan 350z, 1995 'N' Aston Martin DB7.
you're a very fortunate man........ :)



or may be not.......??????... :y

Couldn't afford to tyre all of them  :o. If I tyre all of them with decent brands, it's one hell of a chunk out of any profit :o. Only the cars I use everyday get the best tyres :).
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 18 February 2012, 01:08:43
Only the cars I use everyday get the best tyres :).

That's an odd way to look at it. Costed out per mile the difference is negligible...
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: feeutfo on 18 February 2012, 01:33:18
Only the cars I use everyday get the best tyres :).

That's an odd way to look at it. Costed out per mile the difference is negligible...
Not if your business is used cars. ;)
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: damon80 on 18 February 2012, 01:43:33
Just (well, in the last few weeks) had a new set of Pirelli Snow Sports fitted to the back, and got some Michelin Pilot on the fronts.

The Goodyear Eagle F1's all-round where superb, but pants in the snow...  :-[
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: feeutfo on 18 February 2012, 01:45:40
Sc3's also pants in the snow. Worse than pants actually. Good job we didn't get much down here...

...so far.  :-X
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Del Boy on 18 February 2012, 01:49:33
Zeetex HP101 are on the 350, honestly one of the most dangerous tyres ever used by myself. Good fun when the roads are quiet though  :D
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: r1 on 18 February 2012, 09:04:00
Please don't buy cheap tyres. Very close to stuffing a 350z tonight because of cheap tyres, little bit of throttle and the arse end starts sliding out, caught it just in time. Shit stuff though and a proper brown trouser moment, they're not worth it!

bad tyres or bad driving?
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: OOMV6 on 18 February 2012, 09:24:30
I personally don't pay top dollar for tyres, but certainly don't skimp by any means either. Regardless of driving style, mod cons like TT and ABS etc., even upgraded brakes, it is tyres that stop a car, whether that be in a straight line or otherwise.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: TheBoy on 18 February 2012, 09:44:53
Zeetex HP101 are on the 350, honestly one of the most dangerous tyres ever used by myself. Good fun when the roads are quiet though  :D
Autogrip are the worse I've come across, due to being very poor in the dry, and zero grip in the wet. Yet if you wheelspin them up badly, they grip OK for a couple of hundrd miles, then go to lethal again, without warning - Michelin style. Its the unpredictability that makes it bad
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Del Boy on 18 February 2012, 20:45:50
Please don't buy cheap tyres. Very close to stuffing a 350z tonight because of cheap tyres, little bit of throttle and the arse end starts sliding out, caught it just in time. Shit stuff though and a proper brown trouser moment, they're not worth it!

bad tyres or bad driving?

Bad tyres.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 February 2012, 21:11:13
Sc3's also pants in the snow. Worse than pants actually. Good job we didn't get much down here...

...so far.  :-X

 ;D :y
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Shimmy on 18 February 2012, 22:08:13
Seen as though tyres are always a hot topic, I've decided to make a sig.

:P
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: 2woody on 19 February 2012, 18:21:48
i do just the opposite - have found over the years that all manufacturer's tyres in the same condition have just about the same level of grip as each other, dry or wet.

the big difference i feel is the hardness of the rubber. cheaper tyres often have softer rubber and can be worth going for just for that.

I'm currently running the MV6 on really soft, really cheap 235s ( £130 a set), and as a result it handles really well - certainly equal to tyres costing four times as much. They are wearing at quite a rate, tho.

aged tyres nare a different story - anything over three years and thge characteristics change quite a lot.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: D on 19 February 2012, 19:19:23
Which budget tyres are you using that are soft? I have universally found them hard and long lasting which in my book equates to no grip at all.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: OOMV6 on 19 February 2012, 19:22:35
i do just the opposite - have found over the years that all manufacturer's tyres in the same condition have just about the same level of grip as each other, dry or wet.

the big difference i feel is the hardness of the rubber. cheaper tyres often have softer rubber and can be worth going for just for that.

I'm currently running the MV6 on really soft, really cheap 235s ( £130 a set), and as a result it handles really well - certainly equal to tyres costing four times as much. They are wearing at quite a rate, tho.

aged tyres nare a different story - anything over three years and thge characteristics change quite a lot.

Well, that is great ... and suprising. What about stopping?
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 19 February 2012, 20:13:52
i do just the opposite - have found over the years that all manufacturer's tyres in the same condition have just about the same level of grip as each other, dry or wet.

the big difference i feel is the hardness of the rubber. cheaper tyres often have softer rubber and can be worth going for just for that.

I'm currently running the MV6 on really soft, really cheap 235s ( £130 a set), and as a result it handles really well - certainly equal to tyres costing four times as much. They are wearing at quite a rate, tho.

aged tyres nare a different story - anything over three years and thge characteristics change quite a lot.

I'm afraid thats not correct.. :-\
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: Del Boy on 20 February 2012, 08:42:16
i do just the opposite - have found over the years that all manufacturer's tyres in the same condition have just about the same level of grip as each other, dry or wet.

the big difference i feel is the hardness of the rubber. cheaper tyres often have softer rubber and can be worth going for just for that.

I'm currently running the MV6 on really soft, really cheap 235s ( £130 a set), and as a result it handles really well - certainly equal to tyres costing four times as much. They are wearing at quite a rate, tho.

aged tyres nare a different story - anything over three years and thge characteristics change quite a lot.

I wish that were the case in my experience, cheap tyres I find are absolutely terrible in the wet, extremely dangerous! Whereas a proper branded tyre can handle sometimes nearly as well in the wet as it does in the dry. Those things on the 350z are absolutely terrible, if you brake from high speed even yesterday when the roads were bone dry, if you can feel the back end twitching, it's horrible, I purposely won't drive it at high speed now.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 20 February 2012, 13:07:27
i do just the opposite - have found over the years that all manufacturer's tyres in the same condition have just about the same level of grip as each other, dry or wet.

the big difference i feel is the hardness of the rubber. cheaper tyres often have softer rubber and can be worth going for just for that.

I'm currently running the MV6 on really soft, really cheap 235s ( £130 a set), and as a result it handles really well - certainly equal to tyres costing four times as much. They are wearing at quite a rate, tho.

aged tyres nare a different story - anything over three years and thge characteristics change quite a lot.

I wish that were the case in my experience, cheap tyres I find are absolutely terrible in the wet, extremely dangerous! Whereas a proper branded tyre can handle sometimes nearly as well in the wet as it does in the dry. Those things on the 350z are absolutely terrible, if you brake from high speed even yesterday when the roads were bone dry, if you can feel the back end twitching, it's horrible, I purposely won't drive it at high speed now.

I never buy cheapo tires after some bad experiences..  and god knows how much good tires
saved in many near misses..  even a small crash costs you many times of the initial tire price (not even the difference), and I dont count for injuries :-X
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 February 2012, 19:31:36
Having had to grab a hand full of opposite lock from the passenger seat, to catch the car while Mrs G was driving in the rain, and twice while driving myself on wet roundabouts on tyres that have Falken/kumho levels of grip in the dry, yet zero grip levels in the wet, I must say I find 2woodys post a little odd.

Cheap tyres being renound for hopeless wet grip levels IME, wet v dry being similar to night v day in many cases. A difference thats so cavernous as to be dangerous IMO.

I can only presume the honourable member has either never bought top brand tyres, or some other oddness has occurred to form that opinion.  :-\
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: TheBoy on 20 February 2012, 19:34:27
Having had to grab a hand full of opposite lock from the passenger seat, to catch the car while Mrs G was driving in the rain, and twice while driving myself on wet roundabouts on tyres that have Falken/kumho levels of grip in the dry, yet zero grip levels in the wet, I must say I find 2woodys post a little odd.

Cheap tyres being renound for hopeless wet grip levels IME, wet v dry being similar to night v day in many cases. A difference thats so cavernous as to be dangerous IMO.

I can only presume the honourable member has either never bought top brand tyres, or some other oddness has occurred to form that opinion.  :-\
What were the age on the Slingalongs? 2woody was implying that his experience is with new tyres. In fact his post implied that he changes them before 3rd birthday, not 5th birthday as recommended by most tyre manufacturers.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 February 2012, 19:38:30
Having had to grab a hand full of opposite lock from the passenger seat, to catch the car while Mrs G was driving in the rain, and twice while driving myself on wet roundabouts on tyres that have Falken/kumho levels of grip in the dry, yet zero grip levels in the wet, I must say I find 2woodys post a little odd.

Cheap tyres being renound for hopeless wet grip levels IME, wet v dry being similar to night v day in many cases. A difference thats so cavernous as to be dangerous IMO.

I can only presume the honourable member has either never bought top brand tyres, or some other oddness has occurred to form that opinion.  :-\
What were the age on the Slingalongs? 2woody was implying that his experience is with new tyres. In fact his post implied that he changes them before 3rd birthday, not 5th birthday as recommended by most tyre manufacturers.
2 years as I recall. A member here fitted them to those wheels prior to my ownership.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: TheBoy on 20 February 2012, 19:39:57
Having had to grab a hand full of opposite lock from the passenger seat, to catch the car while Mrs G was driving in the rain, and twice while driving myself on wet roundabouts on tyres that have Falken/kumho levels of grip in the dry, yet zero grip levels in the wet, I must say I find 2woodys post a little odd.

Cheap tyres being renound for hopeless wet grip levels IME, wet v dry being similar to night v day in many cases. A difference thats so cavernous as to be dangerous IMO.

I can only presume the honourable member has either never bought top brand tyres, or some other oddness has occurred to form that opinion.  :-\
What were the age on the Slingalongs? 2woody was implying that his experience is with new tyres. In fact his post implied that he changes them before 3rd birthday, not 5th birthday as recommended by most tyre manufacturers.
2 years as I recall. A member here fitted them to those wheels prior to my ownership.
Wonder if they were 'good' when new, by age quickly?

Personally, 2woody's experiences do not match my own.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: feeutfo on 20 February 2012, 19:50:08
Having had to grab a hand full of opposite lock from the passenger seat, to catch the car while Mrs G was driving in the rain, and twice while driving myself on wet roundabouts on tyres that have Falken/kumho levels of grip in the dry, yet zero grip levels in the wet, I must say I find 2woodys post a little odd.

Cheap tyres being renound for hopeless wet grip levels IME, wet v dry being similar to night v day in many cases. A difference thats so cavernous as to be dangerous IMO.

I can only presume the honourable member has either never bought top brand tyres, or some other oddness has occurred to form that opinion.  :-\
What were the age on the Slingalongs? 2woody was implying that his experience is with new tyres. In fact his post implied that he changes them before 3rd birthday, not 5th birthday as recommended by most tyre manufacturers.
2 years as I recall. A member here fitted them to those wheels prior to my ownership.
Wonder if they were 'good' when new, by age quickly?

Personally, 2woody's experiences do not match my own.
I do remember previous owner mentioning reasonable grip levels, which I agreed with in the dry. I dont think he drove in the wet on them though.  :o

I am impressed though, how to agree with opposing view. ;D
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: 2woody on 22 February 2012, 15:54:33
I wasn't expecting others to agree, mind. I was merely stating what I've found out over the years.

I buy maybe 40 tyres a year, of different makes varying from premium to cheap- and yes, I really have yet to find a great difference in wet grip between new premium tyres and new cheapos. Driving style, ambient temperature, road surface and car spec all have much bigger effect.

Last time I did a tyre test for a manufacturer ( which was a long time ago ), we found something like a 10% variation in wet grip between best and worst.

Most of these tyres end their days on track, where the cheaper, softer ones usually provide more grip, but don't last as long.
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 22 February 2012, 21:29:38
I wasn't expecting others to agree, mind. I was merely stating what I've found out over the years.

I buy maybe 40 tyres a year, of different makes varying from premium to cheap- and yes, I really have yet to find a great difference in wet grip between new premium tyres and new cheapos. Driving style, ambient temperature, road surface and car spec all have much bigger effect.

Last time I did a tyre test for a manufacturer ( which was a long time ago ), we found something like a 10% variation in wet grip between best and worst.

Most of these tyres end their days on track, where the cheaper, softer ones usually provide more grip, but don't last as long.

2woody, probably you are not choosing worst tires..
 
a tire, in real life is subject to very different magnitude forces  and stress tests.. just a simple example is wet braking and lateral g forces that tire can withstand..
 
say you are cornering a road with a relatively high speed when you exceed the limit of lateral g force the difference is you end up with an accident..
 
similiar is also true for braking.. either you stop or dont stop..
 
please check this link
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/news/download/dl_artikel_pdf_en.pdf (http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/news/download/dl_artikel_pdf_en.pdf)
 
Title: Re: This keeps coming up, but tyres!
Post by: 2woody on 23 February 2012, 13:57:52
it's funny you mention that - the tyre test that I was doing was for Continental ( and Volvo ). All about cornering and braking stability in the wet using a range of different tyres. Not in Germany, but at MIRA.

From memory ( and it was in the 1990s ) the worst combination we used was from four different manufacturers.

the test you posted has about a variation in the 20%s - but do remember it's performed by the manufacturer who stand only to gain from positive results.