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[Mysteryman]

i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else 

I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks.

[Dishevelled Den]

i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else 

I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks.

I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.

Just giving you the 'heads-up'

[Mysteryman]

i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else 

I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks.

I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.

Just giving you the 'heads-up'

Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?

[Dishevelled Den]

i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else 

I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks.

I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.

Just giving you the 'heads-up'

Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?

I don't think possession of a razer-sharp wit was considered in this latest crack-down. HTH

[Mysteryman]

i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else 

I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks.

I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.

Just giving you the 'heads-up'

Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?

I don't think possession of a razer-sharp wit was considered in this latest crack-down. HTH

Tut, tut,tut

Are you not keen on spelling?

[Dishevelled Den]

i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else 

I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks.

I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.

Just giving you the 'heads-up'

Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?

I don't think possession of a razer-sharp wit was considered in this latest crack-down. HTH

Tut, tut,tut

Are you not keen on spelling?

  outstanding  8-)

[bury omega]

local authority planners seem to be viewed as pond life by many in society, but when something people dont like is proposed in the neighbourhood, I imagine the planners phone is ringing off the hook.

BS sounds far too random and ad hoc, I imagine it will prove to be a nightmare for developers, as permission is dependant upon if it upsets some cantankerous gits with the time to argue rather than some predefined criteria. The developer buys land on the basis of its status or at least likelyhood of getting permission, how can any land be valued when decisions are going to be at the whim of local people who may (or may not have axes) to grind?

I fear that some communities may lack the right type of self regarding articulate busy bodies with time on their hands  required for this BS.Lets say they want to build a bail hostel or allow a massage place on or near our council estate. Have we a nice retired solicitor or accountant living on our crappy council estate? NO, those people wouldnt dream of living here, we have some mad old buggers on DLA and breakless gits smoking joints and wearing baseball caps, and the rest of us are too busy working at our crappy jobs to lobby the town hall.  we have no effective voice-   Who is going to listen to a ranting old bloke in jeans and leather jacket?

Dont want to get all class warrior about this but BS may well prove to be culturally bias, at least current system has some basis on the question" what is good for the town?" BS is a NIMBY charter, and you can bet they will be happy enough to have it in YOUR backyard if you dont kick up enough articulate white middle class stink.

[Dishevelled Den]

local authority planners seem to be viewed as pond life by many in society, but when something people dont like is proposed in the neighbourhood, I imagine the planners phone is ringing off the hook.

BS sounds far too random and ad hoc, I imagine it will prove to be a nightmare for developers, as permission is dependant upon if it upsets some cantankerous gits with the time to argue rather than some predefined criteria. The developer buys land on the basis of its status or at least likelyhood of getting permission, how can any land be valued when decisions are going to be at the whim of local people who may (or may not have axes) to grind?

I fear that some communities may lack the right type of self regarding articulate busy bodies with time on their hands  required for this BS.Lets say they want to build a bail hostel or allow a massage place on or near our council estate. Have we a nice retired solicitor or accountant living on our crappy council estate? NO, those people wouldnt dream of living here, we have some mad old buggers on DLA and breakless gits smoking joints and wearing baseball caps, and the rest of us are too busy working at our crappy jobs to lobby the town hall.  we have no effective voice-   Who is going to listen to a ranting old bloke in jeans and leather jacket?

Dont want to get all class warrior about this but BS may well prove to be culturally bias, at least current system has some basis on the question" what is good for the town?" BS is a NIMBY charter, and you can bet they will be happy enough to have it in YOUR backyard if you dont kick up enough articulate white middle class stink.

Is that a vote for leaving things as they are B?

[Entwood]

So as I see it ...

If you agree with the local "objections" to anything .. the folks objecting are "fine upstanding citizens working for the community" who deserve support.

If you disagree with those "objections" the folks making them are interfering busybodies who should shut up.

A fine, balanced standpoint .. NOT ... abject hypocrisy ... YUP ..

[pscocoa]

I do understand where Bury Omega is coming from. It is a view that in the leafy suburbs you can expect to find experienced people with time on their hands to defend local causes whereas in certain areas people may perceive that they do not have access to retired accountants and solicitors who they associate with having the ability to respond to issues on behalf of the neighbourhood/community.

Areas such as those described by Bury Omega may need assistance and training in some aspects of opposing things like planning applications but at the outset I do not think this is necessary on the basis that if something arises that you do not like then you can register your concern. The issue is more whether anyone in the area is prepared to go a bit further and get a few neighbours, people at the pub etc, local papers, involved in the issue. The fact that Bury Omega can post on here and express concerns would be half the battle as internet and email is the cornerstone of dealing with authorities and finding out what they are doing. The other facility is residents associations although these can take all sorts of shapes and sizes.
If you have no belief that you can change things then there is a problem and maybe this concern should be taken up with your MP abd Councillors how best to approach the matter in your area.
Not sure if Bury Omega lives in Bury but when I was living there 30 years ago I was involved in 2 or 3 major issues which I found time for.
Another point is the way Councils notify residents of local issues - this needs some attention from government as quite often they slide things through during holiday periods when people take their eye off local papers. I think a lot more publicity of some issues is necessary rather than just putting some huge document in the local library.

I would just advise Bury Omega to give it a go - believe me  -a few critical short emails can be enough to get attention to an issue you do not like - speak to the papers also - they love this stuff at local level.

[Dishevelled Den]

I do understand where Bury Omega is coming from. It is a view that in the leafy suburbs you can expect to find experienced people with time on their hands to defend local causes whereas in certain areas people may perceive that they do not have access to retired accountants and solicitors who they associate with having the ability to respond to issues on behalf of the neighbourhood/community.

Areas such as those described by Bury Omega may need assistance and training in some aspects of opposing things like planning applications but at the outset I do not think this is necessary on the basis that if something arises that you do not like then you can register your concern. The issue is more whether anyone in the area is prepared to go a bit further and get a few neighbours, people at the pub etc, local papers, involved in the issue. The fact that Bury Omega can post on here and express concerns would be half the battle as internet and email is the cornerstone of dealing with authorities and finding out what they are doing. The other facility is residents associations although these can take all sorts of shapes and sizes.
If you have no belief that you can change things then there is a problem and maybe this concern should be taken up with your MP abd Councillors how best to approach the matter in your area.
Not sure if Bury Omega lives in Bury but when I was living there 30 years ago I was involved in 2 or 3 major issues which I found time for.
Another point is the way Councils notify residents of local issues - this needs some attention from government as quite often they slide things through during holiday periods when people take their eye off local papers. I think a lot more publicity of some issues is necessary rather than just putting some huge document in the local library.

I would just advise Bury Omega to give it a go - believe me  -a few critical short emails can be enough to get attention to an issue you do not like - speak to the papers also - they love this stuff at local level.

The issue is more whether anyone in the area is prepared to go a bit further and get a few neighbours, people at the pub etc, local papers, involved in the issue

That's the stumbling-block PS, many are disinclined to be bothered so render themselves incapable (by design or otherwise) of mounting a well grounded response to whatever proposal is being questioned.

This lack of concern has allowed central government (including the EU Council/Commission/Parliament/Court) to create legislation and have it enforced - without challenge for the most part - through the local government structure.

It seems strange to me therefore, that many people will criticise those who decide to become interested in what's happening in their community, when runaway development seems likely to impinge fundamentally on the status quo of that community.

This is one of the many reasons I fear for this nation and its citizens.  More and more people are switching off their interest, in just how government (including local government) is doing its job,  for the familiar friend of apathy  and the expectation that someone else will always sort the matter out.

Well conceived, appropriate and measured development is essential for the future well-being of our communities and nation as a whole, but development at any cost is most certainly not.   

[Mysteryman]

So as I see it ...

If you agree with the local "objections" to anything .. the folks objecting are "fine upstanding citizens working for the community" who deserve support.

If you disagree with those "objections" the folks making them are interfering busybodies who should shut up.

A fine, balanced standpoint .. NOT ... abject hypocrisy ... YUP ..

I do like a bit of abject hypocrisy, it goes well with my bigotry and aloofness.

[Amigo]

Even if any such ventures ever get off the ground, in most parts of the country said properties (modest as they may be) will still be too expensive for young families starting out one income so who will live in them?