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[Kevin Wood]

Yep, doesn't add up to me.

You get your avionics disabled - worst case your engine too. Wouldn't you just drop down to a safe altitude and pull the Martin Baker?

[tigers_gonads]

Yep, doesn't add up to me.

You get your avionics disabled - worst case your engine too. Wouldn't you just drop down to a safe altitude and pull the Martin Baker?

The J79's on the phantom have old school analog control units so EW would have no affect on them.

[cem_devecioglu]

Em weapons do excist.

The yank F22 and the new F35 and potentally any aircraft or ground unit with a aesa system is capable of offensive electronic warfare but tbh, these toys are kept locked away for a rainy day when the big boys kick off 

1.With respect to the lads who fly even that modified version of the F4, I don't think the aircraft has any critical systems onboard which could cause it to go bang in mid flight.

Sadly, imho the 2.Turkish goverment, just like all goverments have made total cocks out of themselfs in this instant 

Imo, they saw a chance to gain some infomation and it blew up in there faces and 2 crew members lost there lifes because of it 

Sadly, 3.in cases like this goverments never tell the truth and always try to cover it up or drag somebody else / blame somebody else for there f*ckups 

Your goverment have maybe being taking leasons from the UK goverment on that score   

1.there were no reason to go bang.. and besides they even dont have time to say mayday..
 
2.definitely.. and there were some talks/chats behind scene.. and no official announcement..
 
3. Cant agree more..

[cem_devecioglu]

Yep, doesn't add up to me.

You get your avionics disabled - worst case your engine too. Wouldn't you just drop down to a safe altitude and pull the Martin Baker?

there were many questions unanswered .. autopsy show that the pilots died when they crashed the sea..

[cem_devecioglu]

Yep, doesn't add up to me.

You get your avionics disabled - worst case your engine too. Wouldn't you just drop down to a safe altitude and pull the Martin Baker?

The J79's on the phantom have old school analog control units so EW would have no affect on them.

I think the type/strength of EW is important.. I'm sure engine was effected.. besides they were modernised some time ago..

[Kevin Wood]

Yep, doesn't add up to me.

You get your avionics disabled - worst case your engine too. Wouldn't you just drop down to a safe altitude and pull the Martin Baker?

there were many questions unanswered .. autopsy show that the pilots died when they crashed the sea..

Coupled with no sign of aggression on aircraft or pilots.

Sounds more like they were overcome during flight, then. Maybe it was a simple accident such as hypoxia or a sudden structural failure and the powers that be don't want to climb down from their claim that it was aggression?

[cem_devecioglu]

Yep, doesn't add up to me.

You get your avionics disabled - worst case your engine too. Wouldn't you just drop down to a safe altitude and pull the Martin Baker?

there were many questions unanswered .. autopsy show that the pilots died when they crashed the sea..

Coupled with no sign of aggression on aircraft or pilots.

Sounds more like they were overcome during flight, then. Maybe it was a simple accident such as hypoxia or a sudden structural failure and the powers that be don't want to climb down from their claim that it was aggression?

Kevin , both pilots were experienced.. and one of them was really special..  I cant think they simply drop off

[tigers_gonads]

In a combat situation, the crew would have been flying the aircraft manually.

At the end of the day, 500 plus knots at 200 feet or less.
Flying away from a hostile threat.
A distraction comes along (seagull ect)

Pilot is distracted for a milisecond and they are fish food.
No time to make any radio call.

Sorry cem but if they wasn't shot down, they could have simply flown into the sea 

It does happen and it will always happen.

I have been sat in the back of a Tornado during a "jolly" around Goose Bay, Canada at 550 knots at a indicated (rad alt) 45 feet 

I have also walked around a crash site with a bin liner hopeing in hell that I didn't find any parts of a pilot I knew who had crashed 

[cem_devecioglu]

In a combat situation, the crew would have been flying the aircraft manually.

At the end of the day, 500 plus knots at 200 feet or less.
Flying away from a hostile threat.
A distraction comes along (seagull ect)

Pilot is distracted for a milisecond and they are fish food.
No time to make any radio call.

Sorry cem but if they wasn't shot down, they could have simply flown into the sea 

It does happen and it will always happen.

I have been sat in the back of a Tornado during a "jolly" around Goose Bay, Canada at 550 knots at a indicated (rad alt) 45 feet 

I have also walked around a crash site with a bin liner hopeing in hell that I didn't find any parts of a pilot I knew who had crashed 

I think soon engine will be investigated and we can see 

[tigers_gonads]

In a combat situation, the crew would have been flying the aircraft manually.

At the end of the day, 500 plus knots at 200 feet or less.
Flying away from a hostile threat.
A distraction comes along (seagull ect)

Pilot is distracted for a milisecond and they are fish food.
No time to make any radio call.

Sorry cem but if they wasn't shot down, they could have simply flown into the sea 

It does happen and it will always happen.

I have been sat in the back of a Tornado during a "jolly" around Goose Bay, Canada at 550 knots at a indicated (rad alt) 45 feet 

I have also walked around a crash site with a bin liner hopeing in hell that I didn't find any parts of a pilot I knew who had crashed 

I think soon engine will be investigated and we can see 

Sorry cem, the bird wouldn't have had to have hit.
The distraction of a near miss could have been enough.

Or ............ your goverment could be telling lies and it was shot down.
The media will show what they are told to show and say what they are told to say   
We in the United Kingdom call it the "The Official Secrets Act" 
Goverments lie and cover things up like this 

[Rods2]

Money talks, have the Syrian Government paid Turkey some money or cancelled any loans? This sort of face saving double dealing does happen. 

The Syrians have admitted they shot at the aircraft, so it might have crashed while taking evasive action. At 200ft, there is not much room for pilot error, plus it is notoriously difficult to judge an aircraft's height when over water. 

EM weapon bringing down the aircraft, I have my doubts as all military systems are EMP hardened.

[cem_devecioglu]

Money talks, have the Syrian Government paid Turkey some money or cancelled any loans? This sort of face saving double dealing does happen. 

The Syrians have admitted they shot at the aircraft, so it might have crashed while taking evasive action. At 200ft, there is not much room for pilot error, plus it is notoriously difficult to judge an aircraft's height when over water. 

EM weapon bringing down the aircraft, I have my doubts as all military systems are EMP hardened.

Syrians cant shoot even their arse.. I'm watching the fight in halep and they cant beat a group of ak 47 loaded rebels..
 
 
the jet was followed by long range radars.. and there were not any trace for a missile..
 
and I dont think they dropped it with AK 47
 
and the type of EM..  it may not be an ordinary one as we think

[Kevin Wood]

IF such EM capability exists, why would its' beholder blow its' cover on something like this, which was always bound to be a high profile international incident when a conventional weapon would have been just as effective?

[cem_devecioglu]

IF such EM capability exists, why would its' beholder blow its' cover on something like this, which was always bound to be a high profile international incident when a conventional weapon would have been just as effective?

if it exists ( as we dont have proof, but a short search returns many interesting events and occasions  that em was thought to be used, and the personalities that claim are serious military staff) its beholder may have planned to stop the other sides air maneuverability with an effective show..besides there are interesting claims from the russian side that you may not heard about..