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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Its a fact that everyone wants to go to Birmingham....not....thats why Chiltern rail are offering me seats to go to Birmingham from Wycombe out of peak hours for £6 each way....no thats not a mis-type...£6 each way. So much for crowded trains. So if the high speed train runs after 10.00am it will be economic ?? Yer' 'avin a larf

Why would any right minded person, who has a station that connects to Birmingham, want to travel into London to get a non stop train. Waste two/three hours getting to London, then cross London travel, plus expense, to save 20mins

Precisely. Unless you happen to be where it starts, and want to go where it ends, its likely to be slower than the overpriced High Speed option.

So it will get built, and remain mostly empty. As tunnie rightly points out, HS1 proves there is no demand, despite what Network Rail and HS2 Ltd want to to believe.

Tell that TB to the Eurostar passengers, 9 million at last count, I see filling their trains going everyday through Ashford, and with many in this town who board it for destinations in Europe!

But, I suppose if you do not use it it must mean it is not needed!

Thats still way too low, they predicted massive amounts of passengers to justify the cost, which has not happened.

When you are presented with 3 options to get to London, one costs £100, second £120, third £200. Only difference is one is 20 mins faster.

Which one would you pick? 

You can generally put customers for HS2 in 3 pots.

1) Tourist
2) Commuter
3) Business Travel

Looking at them again

1) Tourist - will not be interest in 20 minute saving, at cost of 30% premium. You generally want to travel for cheapest amount possible, then spend money at your destination or who you are with.

2) Commuter - Again want to get to work for cheapest amount, if that involves going in packed train, so be it. Don't kid yourself they would pay the premium (that they would for HS2), if they would, why does not everyone travel 1st class? That gets you a seat.... but does everyone pay it? Nope! (some do, but their numbers are very low)

3) Business Travel - The key here is business, those that are going for one off meeting, see a customer so on. And, are allowed to expense travel. If they get set amount, there again, cheapest wins. If they can expense 100%, then yes. But would companies wise to this extra cost, and say take West Coast? Quite possible.


So the bulk of people that would use this, are people who can expense, and want to go to Birmingham or London. and live in Birmingham or London. and don't travel on a daily basis.

Yes, the numbers need to be higher, but are rising.

20 minutes is one way, X 2 each day, X say 320 (to allow for holidays etc) days = a lot of time away from your home and family.  That is what various Javelin passengers down here have said when interviewed and they reckon the extra cost is worthwhile.

As for First Class; no it does not guarantee a seat as when the train becomes over crowded standard passengers spill into First Class; I know because I have often been one of those who had to.

In general it is all open to individual opinion, but as a past seasoned traveller by both car and train, I know what I prefer to use on long journeys to miss the dreadful road hold-ups that were frequently experienced by me. 5 miles in 1.5 hours was not unusual in South London, and I have experienced the same daily travelling from / to the Midlands, when, as I have stated before, I had to use the car on occasions.  Being stuck successively in just one day when on national business duties with serious hold-ups on the A1, M69, M6 and M5 ( over 7 hours in all!!) almost made me give up my job / driving.  That is why we must continue to dramatically improve train services, expand the system on many levels, including High Speed.  It is far from perfect currently, but that boost the vision of creating a new system.

So many of you did not obviously see the documentary on BBC2, The Railway: Keeping Britain On Track  http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/07/the-railway-keeping-britain-on-track.html  as I posted at #6 in this thread.  You would know that much is being done, but a lot more needs to be done!

[Terbs]

I still cannot see the point of anyone north of London going south to catch a train going north. As I said previously...its the getting to the high speed train, that you all seem to be overlooking Commuter trains into London will still be packed in the mornings.

So ....it looks like everybody south of London will be travelling to Birmingham daily, yes. Do you also realise, and I think TB will back me on this....the Chiltern line leaves London full....but disembarks most of its passengers at Bicester Village

[tunnie]

I still cannot see the point of anyone north of London going south to catch a train going north. As I said previously...its the getting to the high speed train, that you all seem to be overlooking Commuter trains into London will still be packed in the mornings.

So ....it looks like everybody south of London will be travelling to Birmingham daily, yes. Do you also realise, and I think TB will back me on this....the Chiltern line leaves London full....but disembarks most of its passengers at Bicester Village

Yup, as I commuted from Bicester to London for years. Lot of cases Bicester was first stop, empties there from London.

I always, every single time without fail got a seat when leaving Bicester for London. They were practically when arriving... from Birmingham.

Other thing is its only people in and around Birmingham or London will use it, if I still commuted from Brackley I'd still use Chiltern, even though HS2 goes past around 2 miles from my parents house. 

[TheBoy]

Its a fact that everyone wants to go to Birmingham....not....thats why Chiltern rail are offering me seats to go to Birmingham from Wycombe out of peak hours for £6 each way....no thats not a mis-type...£6 each way. So much for crowded trains. So if the high speed train runs after 10.00am it will be economic ?? Yer' 'avin a larf

Why would any right minded person, who has a station that connects to Birmingham, want to travel into London to get a non stop train. Waste two/three hours getting to London, then cross London travel, plus expense, to save 20mins

Precisely. Unless you happen to be where it starts, and want to go where it ends, its likely to be slower than the overpriced High Speed option.

So it will get built, and remain mostly empty. As tunnie rightly points out, HS1 proves there is no demand, despite what Network Rail and HS2 Ltd want to to believe.

Tell that TB to the Eurostar passengers, 9 million at last count, I see filling their trains going everyday through Ashford, and with many in this town who board it for destinations in Europe!

But, I suppose if you do not use it it must mean it is not needed!

Eurostar is slightly different in that its not really commuter. I've not been on it for a while, but it seems to be mostly tourists, and is a viable alternative to getting to Belgium and Paris.

HS2's business case is based on the time lost due to travel, so its clearly envisaged it will be for commuting and meetings.

Of course that last sentence highlights the major flaws - even if it is successful, which HS1 (the commuter service, forget Eurostar) suggests is unlikely, it will be empty outside of peak times.  Also, it shows they assume all travel time is unproductive...  ...now nobody gets their laptops out on trains, do they? Or read printed reports?

[TheBoy]

I still cannot see the point of anyone north of London going south to catch a train going north. As I said previously...its the getting to the high speed train, that you all seem to be overlooking Commuter trains into London will still be packed in the mornings.

So ....it looks like everybody south of London will be travelling to Birmingham daily, yes. Do you also realise, and I think TB will back me on this....the Chiltern line leaves London full....but disembarks most of its passengers at Bicester Village

Yup, as I commuted from Bicester to London for years. Lot of cases Bicester was first stop, empties there from London.

I always, every single time without fail got a seat when leaving Bicester for London. They were practically when arriving... from Birmingham.

Other thing is its only people in and around Birmingham or London will use it, if I still commuted from Brackley I'd still use Chiltern, even though HS2 goes past around 2 miles from my parents house. 

half a mile - its Brackley side of Radstone

[TheBoy]

For a lot of business travellers, its going to the wrong part of London, Liverpool Street would probably have been a better station.