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[Nickbat]

HS2's £33bn budget already derailed before a track is laid...

The former cabinet minister Cheryl Gillan, whose constituency of Chesham and Amersham will be heavily affected by the line, has uncovered that more than £250m has already been spent on contracts for engineers, PR firms, property agents and market research outfits.

Can't recall Brunel using PR firms and market researchers. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-hs2s-33bn-budget-already-derailed-before-a-track-is-laid-8527920.html

[tunnie]

Different times though, then there was no such thing as H&S, along with the ability of women to vote.

I don't see the problem, that's not a lot of money. Sky spends that every 4 months on marketing alone.....

[TheBoy]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

[tunnie]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

So far it's what 0.8% of the budget? Any other project they would spend a hell of a lot more than that.

[TheBoy]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

So far it's what 0.8% of the budget? Any other project they would spend a hell of a lot more than that.

HS2 will massively overspend...   ...if it goes ahead. I'm still not convinced that it will, although with Cable turning more towards Labour's "borrow, borrow, borrow" mentality, this is just the sort of project that the Tories need to appease their LD coalition partners.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

HS2's £33bn budget already derailed before a track is laid...

The former cabinet minister Cheryl Gillan, whose constituency of Chesham and Amersham will be heavily affected by the line, has uncovered that more than £250m has already been spent on contracts for engineers, PR firms, property agents and market research outfits.

Can't recall Brunel using PR firms and market researchers. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/revealed-hs2s-33bn-budget-already-derailed-before-a-track-is-laid-8527920.html

Different days, different ways!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

#
You obviously have not been watching the documentary series The Railway: Keeping it on track on BBC2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/07/the-railway-keeping-britain-on-track.html

It totally supports my argument that the current system cannot cope with the massive increase in passenger numbers and how new line expansion is essential, especially HS2 in full. Enormous amounts of money are already being pumped into the current railway system just to stand still with now a record of 1.5 billion journeys being made by passengers, So much more is going to be necessary by 2050. The system is creaking under the demands made upon it, and the series has highlighted how one incident on the line, such as a suicide, results in up to 90 trains delayed, and hundreds of thousands of passengers suffering because their is no spare capacity.

Let's build HS2 as quickly as possible, plus HS3, HS4,.........etc,etc.  We must have a new system not one using so much that dates to the Victorian age.

[Rods2]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

#
You obviously have not been watching the documentary series The Railway: Keeping it on track on BBC2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/07/the-railway-keeping-britain-on-track.html

It totally supports my argument that the current system cannot cope with the massive increase in passenger numbers and how new line expansion is essential, especially HS2 in full. Enormous amounts of money are already being pumped into the current railway system just to stand still with now a record of 1.5 billion journeys being made by passengers, So much more is going to be necessary by 2050. The system is creaking under the demands made upon it, and the series has highlighted how one incident on the line, such as a suicide, results in up to 90 trains delayed, and hundreds of thousands of passengers suffering because their is no spare capacity.

Let's build HS2 as quickly as possible, plus HS3, HS4,.........etc,etc.  We must have a new system not one using so much that dates to the Victorian age.

Should be 400mph+ Maglev, like Japan are building. It has a massive advantage of not needing constant track maintenance and would spread the London wealth bubble to new parts of the country as you could commute from most parts.

Weather we like it or not super-cities like London are the most successful at wealth creation as you get many like minded people working in close proximity to each other. You can use all the arguments you want over using modern communications instead but in reality it doesn't work like that. Much business is done informally in local bars, cafes, coffee shops and restaurants that just wouldn't happen as people don't know you exist and also because in close communities you get personal recommendations etc.

It is the same with airport hubs, you can talk about having regional airports and hubs instead, but airlines like major hubs as they do more profitable business at them. They are also normally adjacent to super-cities for business travellers as they account for the most profitable revenue streams.

[Nickbat]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

#
You obviously have not been watching the documentary series The Railway: Keeping it on track on BBC2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/07/the-railway-keeping-britain-on-track.html

It totally supports my argument that the current system cannot cope with the massive increase in passenger numbers and how new line expansion is essential, especially HS2 in full. Enormous amounts of money are already being pumped into the current railway system just to stand still with now a record of 1.5 billion journeys being made by passengers, So much more is going to be necessary by 2050. The system is creaking under the demands made upon it, and the series has highlighted how one incident on the line, such as a suicide, results in up to 90 trains delayed, and hundreds of thousands of passengers suffering because their is no spare capacity.

Let's build HS2 as quickly as possible, plus HS3, HS4,.........etc,etc.  We must have a new system not one using so much that dates to the Victorian age.

Unless I am very much mistaken, HS2 will have no real impact upon the lack of commuter capacity to which you refer Lizzie. As far as I can see it will take a huge amount of money and destruction of the environment, to transport the very rich (I would imagine the fares will be colossal) to the North...in less time...sometime in the 2020s. The term "white elephant" springs to mind.

[Nickbat]

Should be 400mph+ Maglev, like Japan are building.

Yes, I agree that would better, Rods. It could also be built adjacent to the M1/M6, thus protecting the countryside. Probably cheaper in the long run, too.

[Varche]

Should be 400mph+ Maglev, like Japan are building.

Yes, I agree that would better, Rods. It could also be built adjacent to the M1/M6, thus protecting the countryside. Probably cheaper in the long run, too.

Over would be better. Then they could install pantographs for the electric car of the future - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumper_cars . The rail bed would create a nice dry environment for the cars below.!!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

#
You obviously have not been watching the documentary series The Railway: Keeping it on track on BBC2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/07/the-railway-keeping-britain-on-track.html

It totally supports my argument that the current system cannot cope with the massive increase in passenger numbers and how new line expansion is essential, especially HS2 in full. Enormous amounts of money are already being pumped into the current railway system just to stand still with now a record of 1.5 billion journeys being made by passengers, So much more is going to be necessary by 2050. The system is creaking under the demands made upon it, and the series has highlighted how one incident on the line, such as a suicide, results in up to 90 trains delayed, and hundreds of thousands of passengers suffering because their is no spare capacity.

Let's build HS2 as quickly as possible, plus HS3, HS4,.........etc,etc.  We must have a new system not one using so much that dates to the Victorian age.

Unless I am very much mistaken, HS2 will have no real impact upon the lack of commuter capacity to which you refer Lizzie. As far as I can see it will take a huge amount of money and destruction of the environment, to transport the very rich (I would imagine the fares will be colossal) to the North...in less time...sometime in the 2020s. The term "white elephant" springs to mind.

"Commuter capacity" now covers a far greater area of the country than even 50 years ago. Daily commutes from Midland and even Northern areas to London is far more common than ever before.  Many select taking the train to work ion jobs well away from where they live due to the pattern of commerce going away from more "local" situations, like Tonbridge to London or Beaconsfield to London.  It is more likely now to be Peterborough to London or Leeds to London for a growing number.  By 2050 we need to be ready to cope  with an ever growing need to commute further and further.  That is what HS2 will provide in addition to everything else; fast commuting from / to the North to London, hopefully bringing more job opportunities and wealth to the Northern areas of England at least.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

They clearly haven't spent enough on the marketting/PR, as the majority still cannot see any benefit.

#
You obviously have not been watching the documentary series The Railway: Keeping it on track on BBC2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2013/07/the-railway-keeping-britain-on-track.html

It totally supports my argument that the current system cannot cope with the massive increase in passenger numbers and how new line expansion is essential, especially HS2 in full. Enormous amounts of money are already being pumped into the current railway system just to stand still with now a record of 1.5 billion journeys being made by passengers, So much more is going to be necessary by 2050. The system is creaking under the demands made upon it, and the series has highlighted how one incident on the line, such as a suicide, results in up to 90 trains delayed, and hundreds of thousands of passengers suffering because their is no spare capacity.

Let's build HS2 as quickly as possible, plus HS3, HS4,.........etc,etc.  We must have a new system not one using so much that dates to the Victorian age.

Should be 400mph+ Maglev, like Japan are building. It has a massive advantage of not needing constant track maintenance and would spread the London wealth bubble to new parts of the country as you could commute from most parts.

Weather we like it or not super-cities like London are the most successful at wealth creation as you get many like minded people working in close proximity to each other. You can use all the arguments you want over using modern communications instead but in reality it doesn't work like that. Much business is done informally in local bars, cafes, coffee shops and restaurants that just wouldn't happen as people don't know you exist and also because in close communities you get personal recommendations etc.

It is the same with airport hubs, you can talk about having regional airports and hubs instead, but airlines like major hubs as they do more profitable business at them. They are also normally adjacent to super-cities for business travellers as they account for the most profitable revenue streams.

Maglav is very expensive to build and so far few are in use, with few being developed due to that.  Indeed Japanese railways still have a largely traditional network with of course very high speed trains. In Britain an HS2 line built to Maglav specifications would be hugely more expensive than the traditional line proposed.  It is simply not an option.

[Varche]

Maybe it would be hugely expensive. I count the HS2 to be hugely expensive (for what it is).

For Britain to maintain the advantage it once had in the world we surely must do something a step ahead and not a step behind. We could then flog the technology to other countries. We need visionaries and not functionarios.  

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Maybe it would be hugely expensive. I count the HS2 to be hugely expensive (for what it is).

For Britain to maintain the advantage it once had in the world we surely must do something a step ahead and not a step behind. We could then flog the technology to other countries. We need visionaries and not functionarios.

I agree with that entirely Varche!

Britain should never have stopped serious development of new trains and locomotives. To get that step ahead as we used to enjoy we do need railway engineers with great vision, backed up by a government determined to provide the back up to finance again the development and production of World beating trains to be used on 21st century infrasture. The spirit of Swindon, Crewe, Eastleigh and Doncaster needs to return with real competition to build these trains and locomotives and not leave the field wide open to the likes of Siemens and Hitachi!