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[Martin_1962]

When did it last run on petrol?

Is it very free turning over on the starter motor?

Could be crank sensor

[The Cambelt Kid]

Very free, no problems.

Last ran on petrol sunday on a 5 mile run to B&Q, nice and easy drive.

Correct me if i'm wrong, i though cam sensor flags EML?

Regards

[Kevin Wood]

Cam sensor or crank sensor? Crank sensor didn't light the EML on my car but did cause a code (0335 IIRC).

Symptoms were not starting when hot, which isn't a million miles from your symptioms.

Cam sensor shouldn't stop it starting but again should raise a code.

Kevin

[Martin_1962]

Very free, no problems.

Last ran on petrol sunday on a 5 mile run to B&Q, nice and easy drive.

Correct me if i'm wrong, i though cam sensor flags EML?

Regards

Turns over easier with dodgy crank sensor than without, I have had a similar problem but mine cleared itself after a little while - it would not fire on petrol, previously done a hard long run on LPG and the injectors got clogged.

[jonathanh]

you could check whether you are getting fuel pressure at the pressure relief value at the back of the plenum (a bit below it).  looks like a schrader value.  press it - release the pressure if any - crank and then try again - if you get petrol emerging then you probably have fuel pressure and its something else

[The Cambelt Kid]

Hi guys, you'd never guess what??

Finally cracked this one this evening.  As per your advice Kev, I disconnected the fuel pipes dropped them into a pint of Guinness (well an empty Guinness glass!).  I then shorted out the two larger connectors on the pump relay for a fraction of a nanosecond and I hey presto – half a pint of fuel!  I then reconnected the fuel pipes back onto the fuel rail and then shorted the relay out again and I heard a swirling and whoosing coming from the fuel rail, similar to a central heating boiler with water rushing around the pipes.  

So now I put the relay back then cranked her over and after about 2 or so seconds I heard a small fart then purrrrrrrrrrrrr, the cat was purring!  Even quieter this time, no more lifter rattle.  Maybe the hard ragging in London blasted the gunk from the gunked up lifter?

I find it hard to believe that cranking the car alone wasn’t enough to get fuel into the injectors?

Anyway the moral of the story is not to panic and start eyeing up a crank sensor, burnt out plugs etc... I’ve been with Omegas for nearly three years now and not had any major issues! (touch wood)  Nearly all of my problems have been very simple and reasonably easy repairs!

Next job – new LPG evaporator and flexi LPG pipe to install this week.  Should be arriving tomorrow.

Once again chaps, thanks for you kind help – who do I make the cheque out to?

[Entwood]

Really pleased to hear its fixed  

Now can I ask a favour ??  ( nowt to do with the cheque but if you insist ..... )  give it a week or so, at least 20 odd starts, then do the pedal check thing again ??

I'm really intrigued at your 4 flashes then nothing ..  on mine I either get continuous flashing (no codes) or, when I had a problem,  4 groups of flashes, a pause, 4 more groups to give me the 2 error codes.

I'm wondering if your 4 odd ones will vanish now the car is fixed ...

[Kevin Wood]

Glad to hear it's working. I guess the fuel pump was struggling to prime. When connected to the rail it's pumping against a closed pressure regulator and if it's sucked air it may struggle to make the 3 BAR required to open it and bleed the air out of the system.

Kevin

[The Cambelt Kid]

Hi,

Would seem i spoke to soon.  Problem returned to haunt me this afternoon in Morrisons carpark.  

I rectified it by shorting the relay out again and then starting her up.  One thing that springs to mind i that i may not have primed the pump up correctly the first time round.  I did as Kev advised and took the fuel pipes off and ran the pump but i only pumped out 1/2 pint of fuel and not any more into a fuel can.  Maybe this wasnt enough?

The 4 flashes still stand, which i assume = zero errors.

Cheers

[Kevin Wood]

Once it has run I would have thought any air would bleed out very quickly. Fuel is constantly being circulated between the tank and the rail via the flow and return pipes so it's not really important how much fuel you bled from it, just that the pump was clearly able to make normal fuel pressure after that.

I wonder if your fuel pump or the relay is a little dodgy? Problem on the V6 is the ECU is not configured to prime the fuel pump (most EFI cars run the pump for a few seconds each time the key is turned to II). So, if pressure doesn't build up during cranking (when the volts are low anyway!) it doesn't start.

I guess a clogged fuel filter or pickup strainer in the tank might also cause fuel pressure to build slowly but would also give fuel starvation during running, IMHO.

You should have got a trouble code if you started it with the pump relay bypassed (ECU monitors the coil circuit of the relay).

Kevin

[The Cambelt Kid]

Kev,

I didn’t have an error code...? and no EML lit.

I’m thinking the fuel pickup may be clogged.  If what you say is correct about the pump not operating until the engine is cranked and the pump unable to build the pressure up quick enough, because of a clogged pickup and low voltage due to cranking.  That coupled with me forever running the tank very low sounds very feasible.

As you say other EFI cars run the pump for a few seconds before starting, so I am surprised to hear the V6 doesn’t.

I may have to limp my way to work tomorrow by shorting the relay again for a few seconds if needed.  I will make plans to open up the tank this weekend.

Cheers
Marc  

[Kevin Wood]

How does it run when it's working? Does it pull ok? Just thinking it would suffer from fuel starvation under load if there was a serious problem with fuel delivery.

I know how it is on LPG. you can put off filling up with petrol for too long. The problem is, you can run it low enough for the pump to suck air without noticing, and because the engine stays running on gas, the pump will run dry.

Kevin

[The Cambelt Kid]

IKWYM - I know what you mean about putting off fueling up with petrol   very shameful

No issues while running, none at all.

Just popped outside and the car and it will not start, just cranking over.  I then shorted the relay out and cranked the car at the same time and cough cough it fired up.  I then opened up the shorted wire over the relay and stays running ok.

By pre-pumping the fuel it seems to fix my problem.  

When i open the tank over the weekend i expect to see some dirt around the pickup, well hopefully.