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[tigers_gonads]

Drug cheat or victim of jealous backstabbing ex colleagues who he humiliated over so many years?

On one hand, he never failed a test in 15 years but the french suspected he was blood dopeing back in the 90's. There test wasn't approved until 2001 ish.

[Weds]

I used to think he was clean but not so sure now...

This makes interesting reading

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

[cleggy]

As far as I am concerned there is no proof only unsubstantiated accusations and the testimony of dubious sources. Hero or villian  only he knows
I don't think it would stand up in a court of law, beyond reasonable doubt etc so he should still have his victories

[Lazydocker]

As far as I am concerned there is no proof only unsubstantiated accusations and the testimony of dubious sources. Hero or villian  only he knows
I don't think it would stand up in a court of law, beyond reasonable doubt etc so he should still have his victories

He does The only body who can strip him of his victories have said that there's no evidence

[Rods2]

At the time of his victories the sport was so rife with doping, so who was and who wasn't and who gained an advantage over who?   

As it was normal at the time to only tested the first three stage winners with a few other random tests. You would have to go back and test all of the B samples to see who was dope free and should win and even then you would have an incomplete picture, so meddling might just make things worse. 

This is a real can of worms which is probably best left closed. We just have to accept at the time many performance enhancing drugs were not detectable, therefore it is probably better to let the results stand in an imperfect world and move on. 

Testing has improved since then and will hopefully continue to improve, so we can have more confidence in an even playing field where the best wins. 

Of bigger concern is the aggressive way the US Government bodies are pursuing cases like this and in many other areas like banks transactions to get headline publicity and justify their existence and to impose large fines in what appears to be in a non-judicial process. 

[Darth Loo-knee]

As already said drug enhancement has been rife over the last 20 years or so.. Look at Ben Johnson in the Olympics 

Lance Armstrong suffered Cancer. From what I remember he was checked numerous times for enhancments but none were ever found else he would have being banned.... like other sportsmen. I read something to do with his cancer killed certain cells, but some other cells held more oxygen as an after effect from his treatment.

The man is a Legend, plus no doubt an Inspiration for many Cancer suffers.

 

[Lazydocker]

As already said drug enhancement has been rife over the last 20 years or so.. Look at Ben Johnson in the Olympics 

Lance Armstrong suffered Cancer. From what I remember he was checked numerous times for enhancments but none were ever found else he would have being banned.... like other sportsmen. I read something to do with his cancer killed certain cells, but some other cells held more oxygen as an after effect from his treatment.

The man is a Legend, plus no doubt an Inspiration for many Cancer suffers.

Indeed... The only reason he was accused of doping was because the weight loss from the cancer treatment (and probably a new outlook on life ) made him competitive. He has been found guilty by association with a doctor who was renowned for being able to "hide" evidence of doping (although the same doctor looked after most of the Tour de France cyclists )

Anyway, USADA have as much authority over his titles as I do

[Lazydocker]

This sums it up quite well really...

The USADA is seeking to ban Armstrong from any sport that adheres to the World Anti-Doping Code. Its jurisdiction in the case is being contested, however, by the International Cycling Union.

Armstrong continues to maintain his innocence. He has called the USADA investigation an "unconstitutional witch hunt." His supporters point out he has never tested positive for steroid use.

Taken from:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cycling/story/2012/08/29/sp-lance-armstrong-cycling-usada-cancer-conference.html

[albitz]

From what I read recently,some of his former team mates were offered immunity if they testified about Armstrong. At this point he announced he was no longer going to continue to fight against the allegations against him.
Coming from someone who was known as a legendary and tenacious battler,that seemed vey strange to say the least.
Several sports commentators said that it was tantamount to an admission of guilt.

[tigers_gonads]

Just to play devils advacate, could he have won all he did WITHOUT dopeing ?

Especially after the hammering his body took while fighting testicular  cancer ?

[Lazydocker]

From what I read recently,some of his former team mates were offered immunity if they testified about Armstrong. At this point he announced he was no longer going to continue to fight against the allegations against him.
Coming from someone who was known as a legendary and tenacious battler,that seemed vey strange to say the least.
Several sports commentators said that it was tantamount to an admission of guilt.

Are these the same team mates who did test positive

Just to play devils advacate, could he have won all he did WITHOUT dopeing ?

Especially after the hammering his body took while fighting testicular  cancer ?

True... But he also lost a huge amount of weight and did a massive amount of training to occupy his mind

[albitz]

From what I read recently,some of his former team mates were offered immunity if they testified about Armstrong. At this point he announced he was no longer going to continue to fight against the allegations against him.
Coming from someone who was known as a legendary and tenacious battler,that seemed vey strange to say the least.
Several sports commentators said that it was tantamount to an admission of guilt.

Are these the same team mates who did test positive

Just to play devils advacate, could he have won all he did WITHOUT dopeing ?

Especially after the hammering his body took while fighting testicular  cancer ?

True... But he also lost a huge amount of weight and did a massive amount of training to occupy his mind

I would imagine so.Same as crims turning queens evidence I suppose.
Its a shame,but it seems that in sports such as athletics & cycling,there is a constant race between the authourities and the rogue chemists.The chemists are constantly trying to come up with enhancing drugs which the tests dont pickup,and the authorities are constantly trying to get or stay ahead of them.

[Lazydocker]

Yep... I'm still undecided myself

I don't know what to think, but there is no evidence that he did partake in doping. And even if he did, so were the majority of the other cyclists at the time so who gets the titles (if the ICU actually let USADA strip him of them)?

[Weds]

If Armstrong is stripped of his 7 tour wins who do you give the title to ? Most of the 2nd and 3rd place winners have been caught taking enhancements and banned themselves.. How far down the list do you go..

[tigers_gonads]

If he was taking drugs, how is it that he could get away with it and everybody else got caught ?

Oh decisions decisions